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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:54:02 AM EDT
[#1]
<------
Carries a J-frame .38 Spl., all day, every day, close to twenty years now. For self defense. Yeah, it's still a viable choice. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:55:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the non reloaders, weren't full power wadcutters popular years ago ? Are they available these days? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have a Colt Cobra snub nose revolver, not supposed to run +p ammo in it. That leaves me with plain .38 jhp ammo if I want to use this revolver as a concealed carry gun. I use wad cutters in my snubbie. For the non reloaders, weren't full power wadcutters popular years ago ? Are they available these days? The .38spl.+P 158-grain LSWC-HP was the classic "FBI load" for years adopted by many big city PDs. I purchased several cases of Federal "38G" for next to nothing (like $2/box) in the early 90s as police departments had largely switched over to 9x19mm and dumped inventory on the surplus market. I still have a few boxes left. I believe it is still commercially loaded. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:56:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryI'd carry the hard cast full wadcutter load instead, as it it a deep penetrator and not dependent on velocity or thick clothing to expand. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:58:51 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 135 grain Speer GDHP short barrel, That's a +P load; OP wants standard pressure. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:06:50 AM EDT
[#5]
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Nope, people developed an immunity to it after 9mm took over  Well, people are a lot fatter than they used to be. 
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:14:31 AM EDT
[#6]
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The part about it not making sense to choose a snub. Millions of people prove you wrong every day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When you are limited to pocket carry, yes. If you have the option to wear something IWB, it doesn't make sense to choose a snub over a sub/compact frame semi. Until you actually Attempt to use that postage stamp sized semi to save your ass. So what is wrong about what I said? The part about it not making sense to choose a snub. Millions of people prove you wrong every day. I absolutely hated my snub. It was a Smith model 37 Air Weight. The recoil was terrible and I just could not shoot it worth a damn. I am far more comfortable and accurate with my LCP. As far as compact 9's go both my PM9 and LC9'S are easier to shoot than my LCP and are more accurate,at least for me. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:17:44 AM EDT
[#7]
I carry a S&W 642 in my right front pocket every day, regardless of what else I am carrying. Presently it is stoked with Winchester PDX1 130 grain +P rounds. My wife has a Colt Police Positive in her nightstand with the same rounds. Don't shoot 1000 rounds of +P's out of your Cobra, but a dozen rounds and then carrying them for self defense won't hurt a damned thing.
I have never shot a human with .38 +P's, but I have terminated a bunch of raccoons, opossums, porcupines, and coyotes with them. I finished 3 roadside vehicle hit deer with them. I feel confident with them. Shooting beyond 10 yards? It aint the round.....it's the handgun design. Snubbies are close range guns, period. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:25:29 AM EDT
[#8]
The critical defense round is. As are some others.
.38 isn't the best but bullet tech has made it acceptable. Revolvers have their niche. I carry a Scandium in an ankle holster sometimes and it was a backup when I was on the job. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:26:50 AM EDT
[#9]
It's a spent round. Doesn't kill any more.
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:32:08 AM EDT
[#10]
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I like wadcutters in a .38 snubby. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have a Colt Cobra snub nose revolver, not supposed to run +p ammo in it. That leaves me with plain .38 jhp ammo if I want to use this revolver as a concealed carry gun. I like wadcutters in a .38 snubby. Yep. I like carrying my scandium j-frame in hot weather, where it's harder to conceal something bigger. It's going to function, even wet w sweat & dirt stuck to it. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:36:04 AM EDT
[#11]
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A .38 wadcutter will shoot thru both doors if a Dodge pickup. I don't think clothes will be a problem 
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I have a Colt Cobra snub nose revolver, not supposed to run +p ammo in it. That leaves me with plain .38 jhp ammo if I want to use this revolver as a concealed carry gun. I like wadcutters in a .38 snubby. For non +P you may have something. I remember a case where a guy had someone shoot him with a 38 for some sort of scam or to blame someone else. He reasoned to use a wadcutter target load so it wouldn't hurt him too bad. Killed him deader than shit. Recovered bullet was .70+ The original Hydroshock before it has made by Federal was nothing but a HBWC turned backwards with a post in the middle. I think these would do OK in warm weather but may have trouble with heavy clothes. A .38 wadcutter will shoot thru both doors if a Dodge pickup. I don't think clothes will be a problem
Or .38 semi wadcutter hollow point to prevent over penetration. Pure lead +P load out of a stub nose will get the job done. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:37:43 AM EDT
[#12]
It's not that .38 isn't a viable round--it's that most guns chambered in it are outdated and less than ideal.
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:38:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
135 grain Speer GDHP short barrel, This. Plenty of good rounds for it. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:39:37 AM EDT
[#14]
I don't usually carry a .38 but during the worst of the Texas summer I have been known to drop my Cobra into my shorts pocket instead of my usual IWB carry gun.
I use the old "Chief's Special" Nyclad rounds. Rumor has it that Federal was going to start making these again. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:42:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Meh, that's my opinion of .38spc. It's going to most likely come out of a snubit nose. In most cases it's not much better IMO than .380auto. I'd conced it's probably insignificantly better but given the size a day weight difference of a snub nose revolver to something like the Roger LCP, I'll take the LCP every time.
Don't even get me started on .357mag out of a snub nose, it's just silly. I'd rather have a 9mm. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:44:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a +P load; OP wants standard pressure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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135 grain Speer GDHP short barrel, That's a +P load; OP wants standard pressure. I know, but as long as he isn't practicing with it he will be fine. It is the best performing 38 special round on the market today. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:46:04 AM EDT
[#17]
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I hope so, since I just got one. It can shoot a light, high velocity round or a slow, heavy round without issues. Heck it can do them both in the same cylinder and won't jam or fail to cycle because of inconsistent pressure curves like a semi will. Pretty much the same power range as 9mm plus extra room on both ends of the power spectrum (100gr to 180gr bullets at wildly variable velocities). It's can still jam, lint, dirt and other common pocket debris can lock up the action worse than a semi. At least with a semi it can likely be cleared faster. That's not to say they're unreliable. It's just a myth that revolvers are like the most reliable hand gun ever. ETA: now if you were talking about 3-5" barreled .38spc. Then yes there is a notable improvement over .380auto pocket rockets. Still I'd rather have a .380 with more capacity though. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:47:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Did .38's stop making holes in people recently?
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Posted: 9/29/2016 9:55:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd carry the hard cast full wadcutter load instead, as it it a deep penetrator and not dependent on velocity or thick clothing to expand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd carry the hard cast full wadcutter load instead, as it it a deep penetrator and not dependent on velocity or thick clothing to expand. If I could shoot a revolver double action worth a crap, I would too. lol Honestly, I used to shoot a lot with both revolvers and semi autos, but about 15 years ago I went pretty much all semi. Last revolver I had was a 2" 38spc. My ex wife bought the last .357 mdl they had at that store in the same gun, so I got stuck. I carried it, but couldn't hit except single action mode. Her, dead nuts accurate. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 10:00:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's can still jam, lint, dirt and other common pocket debris can lock up the action worse than a semi. At least with a semi it can likely be cleared faster. That's not to say they're unreliable. It's just a myth that revolvers are like the most reliable hand gun ever. ETA: now if you were talking about 3-5" barreled .38spc. Then yes there is a notable improvement over .380auto pocket rockets. Still I'd rather have a .380 with more capacity though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I hope so, since I just got one. It can shoot a light, high velocity round or a slow, heavy round without issues. Heck it can do them both in the same cylinder and won't jam or fail to cycle because of inconsistent pressure curves like a semi will. Pretty much the same power range as 9mm plus extra room on both ends of the power spectrum (100gr to 180gr bullets at wildly variable velocities). It's can still jam, lint, dirt and other common pocket debris can lock up the action worse than a semi. At least with a semi it can likely be cleared faster. That's not to say they're unreliable. It's just a myth that revolvers are like the most reliable hand gun ever. ETA: now if you were talking about 3-5" barreled .38spc. Then yes there is a notable improvement over .380auto pocket rockets. Still I'd rather have a .380 with more capacity though. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 10:05:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know, but as long as he isn't practicing with it he will be fine. It is the best performing 38 special round on the market today. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 135 grain Speer GDHP short barrel, That's a +P load; OP wants standard pressure. I know, but as long as he isn't practicing with it he will be fine. It is the best performing 38 special round on the market today. Agreed. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 10:13:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 135 grain Speer GDHP short barrel, This, we tested it on a block of gel, and it works damn good out of a snubnose. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 10:18:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Shoot yourself with it and get back to us. 
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Posted: 9/29/2016 10:18:23 AM EDT
[#24]
158 grain Semi Wad cutter HP, AKA FBI load.
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Posted: 9/29/2016 10:18:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I have a Colt Cobra snub nose revolver, not supposed to run +p ammo in it. That leaves me with plain .38 jhp ammo if I want to use this revolver as a concealed carry gun. .38 still does the same damage to a person that it did in the 70's, so why wouldn't it be viable? |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 10:18:56 AM EDT
[#26]
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I love that .gif more than I probably should.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it goes pew pew right? Like this? http://img.pandawhale.com/136625-pew-pew-pew-gif-giphy-kZNY.gif I love that .gif more than I probably should. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 10:25:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Inverted wadcutters have ALWAYS been a good .38 Special load.
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Posted: 9/29/2016 2:55:50 PM EDT
[#28]
I have a 642 that's loaded with GD 135+p.
Recently got wifes grandfathers duty weapon a colt detective. Its not +p rated been wondering what would be a good load for SD use. Comparing the two the Colts cylinder is a bit shorter it seems compared to the S&W 642. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 2:58:01 PM EDT
[#29]
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Inverted wadcutters have ALWAYS been a good .38 Special load. http://www.vangargoyle.com/guns/not-pc.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/ReverseHBWC1.jpg Those rounds look like they dump all its energy with 0 over penetration Dont suppose you can buy factory ammo like that. More of a roll your own...need to get in to reloading one of these days |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 3:12:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Since you don't want to use +P I would go with 148gr wadcutter. For the reload I would pick something with a nose to aid in making it easier to get them into the cylinder under stress.
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Posted: 9/29/2016 4:16:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: would you want to get shot by it? It's not about getting shot by stuff, it's about stopping threats. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 4:18:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a .38 super. Not the same as .38 special. The round I use is a plus P hollow point for carry. It's difficult to find ammo. So I keep a hefty stock of it. It has some stopping power.  .38 super has nothing to do with .38 special, it's literally the exact opposite thing, a high pressure high velocity round found mostly in semi auto's, not a low pressure low velocity round found in revolvers. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 4:23:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: +1 I think .357 was a marketing gimmick to make people buy more pistols and more expensive ammo. 38 Special is deadly as most other things, and claims about shooting a suspect such and such times, and not going down. I take those stupid "fish" stories with a grain of salt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When did it stop being so? +1 I think .357 was a marketing gimmick to make people buy more pistols and more expensive ammo. 38 Special is deadly as most other things, and claims about shooting a suspect such and such times, and not going down. I take those stupid "fish" stories with a grain of salt. .357 was created as a competitor to .38 super/ .38 Automatic as it was found during the prohibition era that the .38 Browning designed Colt guns and ammo were killing the shit out of badguys and punching through heavy gauge car bodies and period bulletproof vests. Stories of suspects being shot a bunch of times and not going down with .38 special are plentiful, verifiable, and supported by the finding s in the FBI handgun wounding factors. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 4:26:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Inverted wadcutters have ALWAYS been a good .38 Special load. http://www.vangargoyle.com/guns/not-pc.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/ReverseHBWC1.jpg This is what you seek OP. 158 grain lead inverted wad cutters. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 4:29:52 PM EDT
[#35]
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Not the case. .357 was created as a competitor to .38 super/ .38 Automatic as it was found during the prohibition era that the .38 Browning designed Colt guns and ammo were killing the shit out of badguys and punching through heavy gauge car bodies and period bulletproof vests. Stories of suspects being shot a bunch of times and not going down with .38 special are plentiful, verifiable, and supported by the finding s in the FBI handgun wounding factors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When did it stop being so? +1 I think .357 was a marketing gimmick to make people buy more pistols and more expensive ammo. 38 Special is deadly as most other things, and claims about shooting a suspect such and such times, and not going down. I take those stupid "fish" stories with a grain of salt. .357 was created as a competitor to .38 super/ .38 Automatic as it was found during the prohibition era that the .38 Browning designed Colt guns and ammo were killing the shit out of badguys and punching through heavy gauge car bodies and period bulletproof vests. Stories of suspects being shot a bunch of times and not going down with .38 special are plentiful, verifiable, and supported by the finding s in the FBI handgun wounding factors. Jacketed hand gun bullets and smokeless powder were a new thing to most. The standard .38 load at the time was round nosed and made of soft lead. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 4:32:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Beats standing there with just your dick in your hands.
Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 4:33:00 PM EDT
[#37]
As a sheriff friend of mine once said, "If you don't think it is a viable self defense caliber, let me shoot you in the face with it and see what you think then".
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Posted: 9/29/2016 4:33:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jacketed hand gun bullets and smokeless powder were a new thing to most. The standard .38 load at the time was round nosed and made of soft lead. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not the case. .357 was created as a competitor to .38 super/ .38 Automatic as it was found during the prohibition era that the .38 Browning designed Colt guns and ammo were killing the shit out of badguys and punching through heavy gauge car bodies and period bulletproof vests. Stories of suspects being shot a bunch of times and not going down with .38 special are plentiful, verifiable, and supported by the finding s in the FBI handgun wounding factors. Jacketed hand gun bullets and smokeless powder were a new thing to most. The standard .38 load at the time was round nosed and made of soft lead. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 5:03:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be fair what most people do rarely makes any sense. Most people buy a snub nosed revolver because they think it will be easy to shoot which cannot be further from the truth. I have been carrying a LCP while at work this summer and I have found that I am far more proficient with it than my LCR. I realized it the first time I took my LCP to the range and I have owned my LCR for over 5 years.  I will trust being able to quickly put 7 holes in a small group at 7 yards over a more powerful cartridge. When it cools off I will be packing a single stack 9mm. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When you are limited to pocket carry, yes. If you have the option to wear something IWB, it doesn't make sense to choose a snub over a sub/compact frame semi. Until you actually Attempt to use that postage stamp sized semi to save your ass. So what is wrong about what I said? The part about it not making sense to choose a snub. Millions of people prove you wrong every day. To be fair what most people do rarely makes any sense. Most people buy a snub nosed revolver because they think it will be easy to shoot which cannot be further from the truth. I have been carrying a LCP while at work this summer and I have found that I am far more proficient with it than my LCR. I realized it the first time I took my LCP to the range and I have owned my LCR for over 5 years. I will trust being able to quickly put 7 holes in a small group at 7 yards over a more powerful cartridge. When it cools off I will be packing a single stack 9mm. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 5:09:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: +1 I think .357 was a marketing gimmick to make people buy more pistols and more expensive ammo. 38 Special is deadly as most other things, and claims about shooting a suspect such and such times, and not going down. I take those stupid "fish" stories with a grain of salt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When did it stop being so? +1 I think .357 was a marketing gimmick to make people buy more pistols and more expensive ammo. 38 Special is deadly as most other things, and claims about shooting a suspect such and such times, and not going down. I take those stupid "fish" stories with a grain of salt. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 5:12:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like wadcutters in a .38 snubby. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have a Colt Cobra snub nose revolver, not supposed to run +p ammo in it. That leaves me with plain .38 jhp ammo if I want to use this revolver as a concealed carry gun. I like wadcutters in a .38 snubby. Federal Champion 148 gr wadcutters in fact was my choice for the Charter Undercover and 642 I also had the GDJHP short barrel |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 5:12:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I absolutely hated my snub. It was a Smith model 37 Air Weight. The recoil was terrible and I just could not shoot it worth a damn. I am far more comfortable and accurate with my LCP. As far as compact 9's go both my PM9 and LC9'S are easier to shoot than my LCP and are more accurate,at least for me. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When you are limited to pocket carry, yes. If you have the option to wear something IWB, it doesn't make sense to choose a snub over a sub/compact frame semi. Until you actually Attempt to use that postage stamp sized semi to save your ass. So what is wrong about what I said? The part about it not making sense to choose a snub. Millions of people prove you wrong every day. I absolutely hated my snub. It was a Smith model 37 Air Weight. The recoil was terrible and I just could not shoot it worth a damn. I am far more comfortable and accurate with my LCP. As far as compact 9's go both my PM9 and LC9'S are easier to shoot than my LCP and are more accurate,at least for me. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 6:56:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not the case. .357 was created as a competitor to .38 super/ .38 Automatic as it was found during the prohibition era that the .38 Browning designed Colt guns and ammo were killing the shit out of badguys and punching through heavy gauge car bodies and period bulletproof vests. Stories of suspects being shot a bunch of times and not going down with .38 special are plentiful, verifiable, and supported by the finding s in the FBI handgun wounding factors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When did it stop being so? +1 I think .357 was a marketing gimmick to make people buy more pistols and more expensive ammo. 38 Special is deadly as most other things, and claims about shooting a suspect such and such times, and not going down. I take those stupid "fish" stories with a grain of salt. .357 was created as a competitor to .38 super/ .38 Automatic as it was found during the prohibition era that the .38 Browning designed Colt guns and ammo were killing the shit out of badguys and punching through heavy gauge car bodies and period bulletproof vests. Stories of suspects being shot a bunch of times and not going down with .38 special are plentiful, verifiable, and supported by the finding s in the FBI handgun wounding factors. LRN stories |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:01:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a gimic in J-Frames. In full size service guns. There is a difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When did it stop being so? +1 I think .357 was a marketing gimmick to make people buy more pistols and more expensive ammo. 38 Special is deadly as most other things, and claims about shooting a suspect such and such times, and not going down. I take those stupid "fish" stories with a grain of salt. not entirely a gimmick it is the revolver equivalent of a M44 nagant, it has the add'd benefit of setting your target on fire......LOL |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:06:41 PM EDT
[#45]
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The time period I'm talking about runs well into the 1990's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not the case. .357 was created as a competitor to .38 super/ .38 Automatic as it was found during the prohibition era that the .38 Browning designed Colt guns and ammo were killing the shit out of badguys and punching through heavy gauge car bodies and period bulletproof vests. Stories of suspects being shot a bunch of times and not going down with .38 special are plentiful, verifiable, and supported by the finding s in the FBI handgun wounding factors. Jacketed hand gun bullets and smokeless powder were a new thing to most. The standard .38 load at the time was round nosed and made of soft lead. Yeah, 6 rounds isn't enough ammo. more holes is always better than fewer holes. More ammo on tap means more chances to defeat barriers, connect a good hit, or miss a whole bunch of times and still land a shot. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:09:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Lots of bullets that are better than the old 158 grain LRN are now available.
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:16:28 PM EDT
[#47]
It's still viable but limited to 5 rds..in a J frame. I carried a S&W Pre-36 with the hammer bobbed, miss it sometimes but then remember how I couldn't hit accurately beyond 10 feet.
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:18:36 PM EDT
[#48]
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It's still viable but limited to 5 rds..in a J frame. I carried a S&W Pre-36 with the hammer bobbed, miss it sometimes but then remember how I couldn't hit accurately beyond 10 feet. I have no trouble hitting a upper torso sized target at 35 yards with my 637 using my off hand. That is why I like it. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:54:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, 6 rounds isn't enough ammo. more holes is always better than fewer holes. More ammo on tap means more chances to defeat barriers, connect a good hit, or miss a whole bunch of times and still land a shot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The time period I'm talking about runs well into the 1990's. Yeah, 6 rounds isn't enough ammo. more holes is always better than fewer holes. More ammo on tap means more chances to defeat barriers, connect a good hit, or miss a whole bunch of times and still land a shot. A lot of modern loads, even to this day, don't perform well in testing both in penetration and expansion, as well as consistency. Here's an interesting article, but more interesting is the data in the table at the bottom from a lab showing how some of the different ammo preforms from shot barrels. Note how all over the map loads are for performance. Some have great penetration and expansion with one round, then not another. Some start lackluster. Some do OK with bare gel but clog on clothed gel and act more like FMJ win minimal or no expansion. the results from that testing reflect a LOT of other testing as well and work to support the research of .38 special being an inconsistent handgun round for stopping people. I'll carry damn near anything that will chamber and not be too worried about it with faster velocity ammo, but IMHO ammo selection for small frame .38's is really, really important with the limited capacity as mentioned. |
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Posted: 9/30/2016 8:28:31 AM EDT
[#50]
I would say it is, I mean I would feel safe with a 38 in my night stand or on my side if somebody was to approach me, a 125gr HP in your boiler room will take a lot of aggression out of a person.
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