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Posted: 9/20/2023 1:32:29 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is more nonsense. Breaking up MOSAIC law into parts is completely an artificial construct that isn't found in scripture. The New Test provides the standard. It defines the works of the flesh. Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. The straw man that "if only the Jews were under the Mosaic law then Christians can be immoral" is a joke. These straw man arguments and these artificial distinctions are invented to prop up the system. Are incest and bestiality still prohibited, they're not mentioned in the NT? How about this one...Eph 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Here is the Apostle applying the 5th commandment to NT children, with an expansion of the promise to the earth. Is this OT law still binding? |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 1:54:53 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the moral law is still binding, excellent. Are incest and bestiality still prohibited, they're not mentioned in the NT? How about this one...Eph 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Here is the Apostle applying the 5th commandment to NT children, with an expansion of the promise to the earth. Is this OT law still binding? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is more nonsense. Breaking up MOSAIC law into parts is completely an artificial construct that isn't found in scripture. The New Test provides the standard. It defines the works of the flesh. Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. The straw man that "if only the Jews were under the Mosaic law then Christians can be immoral" is a joke. These straw man arguments and these artificial distinctions are invented to prop up the system. Are incest and bestiality still prohibited, they're not mentioned in the NT? How about this one...Eph 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Here is the Apostle applying the 5th commandment to NT children, with an expansion of the promise to the earth. Is this OT law still binding? Deuteronomy 4:1 "Now, Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you will live and go in and take possession of the land which the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I am commanding you. Deuteronomy 12:32 "Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take anything away from it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:04:21 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This idea that there are separate moral, legal, and ritual Laws is false; there is only one Law, you keep it or you don't. Deuteronomy 4:1 "Now, Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you will live and go in and take possession of the land which the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I am commanding you. Deuteronomy 12:32 "Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take anything away from it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:25:38 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So do you think the dietary laws are still in effect for Christians? How about circumcision? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This idea that there are separate moral, legal, and ritual Laws is false; there is only one Law, you keep it or you don't. Deuteronomy 4:1 "Now, Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you will live and go in and take possession of the land which the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I am commanding you. Deuteronomy 12:32 "Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take anything away from it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:45:47 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Scroll back and read the Galatians 4 verses that I posted. Again I'll post Eph 6:1-3 as an example for discussion. 6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. This is the Apostle applying the 5th commandment to NT children. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:52:28 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I went back and read your Gal 4 post, you quoted a bunch of scripture, but I saw nothing from you on how that applies to whether the law, any law, applies or doesn't apply. Again I'll post Eph 6:1-3 as an example for discussion. 6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. This is the Apostle applying the 5th commandment to NT children. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Scroll back and read the Galatians 4 verses that I posted. Again I'll post Eph 6:1-3 as an example for discussion. 6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. This is the Apostle applying the 5th commandment to NT children. At this point, it seems you're trying to argue against what Paul wrote with what you think Paul wrote. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:52:38 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the moral law is still binding, excellent. Are incest and bestiality still prohibited, they're not mentioned in the NT? System followers always focus on their systems when they read the Bible. Does the passage I quoted list every work of the flesh that could possibly be committed? Not specifically but it doesn't have to. Why? The passage includes "and such like." When the system follower is so focused on his system, he misses things like that. Why? Because what the Bible says isn't what's important - his system is what is important to him. Gotta prop up that system! |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:54:53 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the moral law is still binding, excellent. Are incest and bestiality still prohibited, they're not mentioned in the NT? How about this one...Eph 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Here is the Apostle applying the 5th commandment to NT children, with an expansion of the promise to the earth. Is this OT law still binding? You clearly don't understand the distinction between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:54:56 PM EST
[#9]
I now understand why the early church killed off the gnostics. There's enough theological arguments with just the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Can you imagine how bad it must have with a demiurge and archons throw in too?
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:55:48 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong, both testaments are about Christ, both testaments are for the Christians benefit. No, both testaments are about God, but people would rather be led astray by the words of men, because it's what they want to hear. People that say they believe and don't believe in the old testament have built a house on sand, not rock. The book is about God. God exists. Everywhere. Even GD. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:58:13 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I now understand why the early church killed off the gnostics. There's enough theological arguments with just the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Can you imagine how bad it must have with a demiurge and archons throw in too? At least when it came to the Cathars. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:06:28 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: System followers always focus on their systems when they read the Bible. Does the passage I quoted list every work of the flesh that could possibly be committed? Not specifically but it doesn't have to. Why? The passage includes "and such like." When the system follower is so focused on his system, he misses things like that. Why? Because what the Bible says isn't what's important - his system is what is important to him. Gotta prop up that system! |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:07:35 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reread the bolded part. It's not about salvation or keeping the Law. At this point, it seems you're trying to argue against what Paul wrote with what you think Paul wrote. Their criticism of dispensationalists is "they take the Bible literally." On the other hand, they can disregard the passage and insert whatever meaning matches their system. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:08:57 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So do you think the dietary laws are still in effect for Christians? How about circumcision? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This idea that there are separate moral, legal, and ritual Laws is false; there is only one Law, you keep it or you don't. Deuteronomy 4:1 "Now, Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you will live and go in and take possession of the land which the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I am commanding you. Deuteronomy 12:32 "Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take anything away from it. Is the 4th commandment part of the moral law? Is it still in effect for Christians? |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:08:58 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, both testaments are about God, but people would rather be led astray by the words of men, because it's what they want to hear. People that say they believe and don't believe in the old testament have built a house on sand, not rock. The book is about God. God exists. Everywhere. Even GD. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:11:45 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the 4th commandment part of the moral law? Is it still in effect for Christians? |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:13:55 PM EST
[#17]
Oh great another idiot thread!
Hey OP does this apply to you today??? Numbers 15:32-36 32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. You ever work on a Saturday OP? Well come over so I can stone you to death. Do you know why this doesn’t apply to you??? Because we are in another dispensation!!! |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:16:38 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, I believe so, and I know it is very controversial. The sabbath wasn't instituted at Sinai, it was instituted at creation. The Jews were keeping the sabbath before Sinai. So you keep the Sabbath Friday sundown to Saturday sundown as is required in Old Covenant moral law, right? |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:19:44 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just asked some simple questions, and you rail on me about "system" again. Why don't you enlighten me by giving me a straight answer about whether the 5th commandment, applied to children in the NT, is, let say, applying OT moral law in a NT setting. Your "simple questions" are based on your system, of course. Your system is Israel = the church. Therefor OT "moral" laws (you make the false distinction of OT moral law being separate from the whole) are binding on the church. That's patently false. Is the believer under the law? According to your system they must be, because you and your fellows keep harping on being bound by the law. But according to the Bible? Rom 6: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. I've said it many, many times before. Calvinists have no understanding of God's grace. This is just more proof of that. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:22:30 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you keep the Sabbath Friday sundown to Saturday sundown as is required in Old Covenant moral law, right? Hey, don't stop there! What about the seventh year sabbath and the jubile. They have to keep those, too. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:22:36 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh great another idiot thread! Hey OP does this apply to you today??? Numbers 15:32-36 32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. You ever work on a Saturday OP? Well come over so I can stone you to death. Do you know why this doesn't apply to you??? Because we are in another dispensation!!! |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:24:30 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You want to have civil conversation about it, or just rail? I'll wait for your answer. Does that apply to you? Yes or no |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:26:13 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Snip~ Adam's choice doesn't oblige me to anything. His covenant is based on his choice. That's his choice; not mine. He may have made a covenant but that doesn't mean all of humanity signed on the dotted line. I never yielded my sovereignty to Adam. By what right does your version of God claim sovereignty over me, exactly? And if he has sovereignty over me, what does that mean to my God-given free will? Snip~ Your sovereignty? Does the serpent's choice have anything to do with it here? You were in God's backyard. Not the other way around. And if you can simply do whatever you want to, then, by default, so can God. Unless, of course, if doing anything you want means belief in God. That, I'm guessing, you might have a problem with. God's claim to being God should not be tested. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:26:59 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you keep the Sabbath Friday sundown to Saturday sundown as is required in Old Covenant moral law, right? |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:31:53 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your "simple questions" are based on your system, of course. Your system is Israel = the church. Therefor OT "moral" laws (you make the false distinction of OT moral law being separate from the whole) are binding on the church. That's patently false. Is the believer under the law? According to your system they must be, because you and your fellows keep harping on being bound by the law. But according to the Bible? Rom 6: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. I've said it many, many times before. Calvinists have no understanding of God's grace. This is just more proof of that. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:32:43 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My point was specifically not to quote certain verses but to talk about overriding themes. A very obvious theme of multiple sections of the New Testament is about how God is no longer just dealing with Israel but has moved on from them to something greater. Jesus himself talked about how his commandments go beyond what was given through Moses. Paul's ministry to the Jews centered around how all the stuff in the old law was no longer relevant and he corrected those who wanted to hold on to it. I don't think that it's a matter of throwing out the old, but more of replacing it with something better. I have strong reservations about any theology that is primarily based on verses in the Old Testament and commandments and promises God made to Israel. If it's not strongly supported in the New Testament as well then I question it. A good example is post-millennialism--from what I can see it is mostly based on Old Testament scripture and any New Testament scripture is just a reference to those Old Testament scriptures. But it is not clearly and plainly taught in the New Testament. If you don't see a very clear and distinct separation between what God was doing with Israel in the Old Testament and what God is doing with the church today then you will not accurately understand how Christians are to interact with the world today. God is planning a world takeover then, huh? That's good to know. Be very afraid. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:33:05 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does that apply to you? Yes or no |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:34:52 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: God is planning a world takeover then, huh? That's good to know. Be very afraid. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:36:26 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe at God's prerogative that there is now a Christian sabbath, where the day was changed to Sunday in lieu of the resurrection of Christ. This Christian sabbath is devoid of the OT Jewish ways. I don't believe that it is or ever was sundown. So here is the Covenant Theology rewrite of the 4th commandment: “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the first day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the first day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. — Exodus 20:8-11 That doesn’t make sense. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:37:40 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: System followers always focus on their systems when they read the Bible. Like you focus on Scolfield's system of dispensationalism (created almost 2 thousand years after the fact) when you read the Bible. Funny how that works. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:39:04 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My man, get a grip and stop obsessing over the "system" and just let me and everyone reading this know if the 5th commandment is applied in a NT setting. All of the 10 commandments apply to you today from a spiritual aspect. BUT in the OT they were SAVED by following and keeping the 10 commandments. TODAY I’m saved and I DONT HAVE TO keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved. That’s the difference. 1 Corinthians 10:23 23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:39:59 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So here is the Covenant Theology rewrite of the 4th commandment: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the first day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the first day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. Exodus 20:8-11 That doesn't make sense. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:40:14 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I missed it, did I rail on you? Anyway...sure. Good you are saying that you should be stoned to death because you worked on Saturday. Phew! No loss there |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:44:02 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of the 10 commandments apply to you today from a spiritual aspect. BUT in the OT they were SAVED by following and keeping the 10 commandments. TODAY I'm saved and I DONT HAVE TO keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved. That's the difference. 1 Corinthians 10:23 23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:44:27 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe at God's prerogative that there is now a Christian sabbath, where the day was changed to Sunday in lieu of the resurrection of Christ. This Christian sabbath is devoid of the OT Jewish ways. I don't believe that it is or ever was sundown. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you keep the Sabbath Friday sundown to Saturday sundown as is required in Old Covenant moral law, right? Colossians 2:8 See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, [i]rather than in accordance with Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made [j]complete, and He is the head [k]over every ruler and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And [l]when you were dead [m]in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings, 14 having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had [n]disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through [o]Him. 16 Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Also, see Hebrews 4. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:45:26 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good you are saying that you should be stoned to death because you worked on Saturday. Phew! No loss there |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:46:18 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Classical dispy think here. OT law keeping saves. Now we have 2 ways of salvation, keeping the law and faith in Christ. The Lord chastised heavily the Pharisees for such thinking. Please read Romans 2 and 3 it might help. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All of the 10 commandments apply to you today from a spiritual aspect. BUT in the OT they were SAVED by following and keeping the 10 commandments. TODAY I'm saved and I DONT HAVE TO keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved. That's the difference. 1 Corinthians 10:23 23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. You're perverting what people are actually saying. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:48:47 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Christ is our Sabbath: Colossians 2:8 See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, [i]rather than in accordance with Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made [j]complete, and He is the head [k]over every ruler and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And [l]when you were dead [m]in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings, 14 having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had [n]disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through [o]Him. 16 Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Also, see Hebrews 4. I believe that Paul is in Col 2 referring to the Jewish overlay of Peculiar Jewish ways related to the sabbath. The Jews had many sabbaths. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:49:48 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Classical dispy think here. OT law keeping saves. Now we have 2 ways of salvation, keeping the law and faith in Christ. The Lord chastised heavily the Pharisees for such thinking. Please read Romans 2 and 3 it might help.  And that’s why I used the word idiot in my opening statement. Please show me where someone was saved in the OT by believing in the death, burial, and resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:1-5 the Gospel) of the Lord Jesus Christ. I’ll wait for Biblical scripture from the Old Testament! Not prophetic |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:50:39 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, you still want to rail, and put words in my mouth now? Did you or did you not answer my question with “sure”. Sure OP = yes |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:53:02 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because they couldn't follow it, no one can. If they could, Christ didn't need to die (again, Gal. 2:21). You're perverting what people are actually saying. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:53:33 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My man, get a grip and stop obsessing over the "system" and just let me and everyone reading this know if the 5th commandment is applied in a NT setting. Been answered multiple times by multiple posters. Drop your system and believe what the Bible says and you will have your answer about the commandments. You will then also know that Christ died for all sinners, not just your group. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:53:35 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: God can change and did change the day. Jesus is the Lord of sabbath, it's His to do as He pleases. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So here is the Covenant Theology rewrite of the 4th commandment: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the first day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the first day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. Exodus 20:8-11 That doesn't make sense. The Jesus I know said this: For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. — Matthew 5:18 So, after Jesus said the law wouldn’t change till heaven and earth passed away, but then He changed it anyway. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:53:41 PM EST
[#44]
Ironically Calvinist Puritans believed in Preparationism; that is, one had to attempt to follow the law in order to receive grace. Then a preacher named John Cotton and a woman Anne Hutchinson emigrated and she began to teach Cotton's belief that one is only saved by trusting in the cross. They called her an Antinomian (where the name started) and sentenced her and her family to death by exiling her to Manhattan where the natives killed them (because her accusers were to cowardly to do it themselves).
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:54:39 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He specifically and explicitly said that the OT people were saved by keeping the commandments. Explain how I perverted his words. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because they couldn't follow it, no one can. If they could, Christ didn't need to die (again, Gal. 2:21). You're perverting what people are actually saying. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:55:43 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Jesus I know said this: For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:18 So, after Jesus said the law wouldn't change till heaven and earth passed away, but then He changed it anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So here is the Covenant Theology rewrite of the 4th commandment: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the first day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the first day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. Exodus 20:8-11 That doesn't make sense. The Jesus I know said this: For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:18 So, after Jesus said the law wouldn't change till heaven and earth passed away, but then He changed it anyway. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:55:43 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Israel believed in a Messiah that would restore the nation to the preeminent position it once held. Corporately (which is what the nation of Israel is - individuals are Jews residing in the nation) they were not "looking forward to the cross." Corporately they were not looking for someone to pay for their individual sins. The Bible says it was a "mystery kept secret since the world began." Rom 16:25 that wasn't revealed until later. This is clearly evident in how the disciples reacted whenever Jesus said He was going to the cross and die, and then rise again. His disciples rebuked Jesus for saying that. Mat 16:21-23. They were looking for a NATIONAL Saviour to reestablish Israel, not for one who would pay for their sins. That was the mystery. They didn't get it until after the resurrection. Old Test sinners were saved by grace, humbly seeking God's forgiveness. But they weren't trusting the coming Saviour because it was a mystery to them. Luke 18 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Ps 51: 16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Except that, according to others, the guy that said he would die on the cross and then rise again actually didn't, and some other guy did in his place. The jews said he spoke as a demon would. Not saying that Christ didn't die on the cross. Saying that more than one guy was running around claiming to be. In fact, the guy who was actually crucified said he never made any claims like that, and was found to have no fault. At that point, he should have been released and free to pass. Instead, the crowd demanded he be killed. In the original Aramaic text, his name, and the name of barrabas were one and the same. For what it's worth, most of those other people, including the disciples, were also slaughtered. Then, so were the gentiles. It isn't only the Bible that says this is true. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:56:39 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Drop your system and believe what the Bible says and you will have your answer about the commandments. You will then also know that Christ died for all sinners, not just your group. As soon as you drop your Scolfield system. Are you a universalist? If so it makes the antinomianism make sense. Renowned methodist theologian Adam Clarke said, "The Gospel proclaims liberty from the ceremonial law, but binds you still faster under the moral law. To be freed from the ceremonial law is the Gospel liberty; to pretend freedom from the moral law is Antinomianism." This isn't a Calvinistic held belief, it was a staple of Christianity until the widespread acceptance of the heresy of antinomianism. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 3:59:47 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of the 10 commandments apply to you today from a spiritual aspect. BUT in the OT they were SAVED by following and keeping the 10 commandments. TODAY I'm saved and I DONT HAVE TO keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved. That's the difference. 1 Corinthians 10:23 23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 4:04:15 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that's why I used the word idiot in my opening statement. Please show me where someone was saved in the OT by believing in the death, burial, and resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:1-5 the Gospel) of the Lord Jesus Christ. I'll wait for Biblical scripture from the Old Testament! Not prophetic |
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