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Posted: 5/15/2018 3:38:41 AM EDT
[#1]
So far, every indication he's being sincere. The devil's in the details, so site verifications will tell whether he is or not.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 3:39:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Yes, his tunnel into the mountain collasped, he would need to rebuild everything. Likely lost a bunch of people that knew how to build a bomb.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 3:41:35 AM EDT
[#3]
There isn't a chance in hell that he's being sincere.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 3:46:58 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, his tunnel into the mountain collasped, he would need to rebuild everything. Likely lost a bunch of people that knew how to build a bomb. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:09:38 AM EDT
[#5]
I'm not a historian on this subject, but my impression is that over the past 25 years or so, the modus operandi of the North Korean regime has been as follows:
1. Kick up dust and threaten the world with nuclear weapons, creating a problem. 2. Continue until the problem becomes a crisis, and the whole world's attention is on you. 3. Say that you're willing to negotiate the end of your nuclear program in exchange for money, aid, etc. 4. At some highly-publicized international summit, promise to shut down your nuclear program and play nice with everyone else. 5. Receive the money and aid given by various countries to avert the crisis, then renege on your promises and go full-steam ahead with your nuclear program. 6. Rinse and repeat. I am certain Kim Jong Il gave his son a master class on how to play the international community along those lines. The US has been burned before in negotiations with the North Koreans, so obviously we can't trust them. But this time around, something feels different. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I have to say I'm surprisingly optimistic that something good will come of this. I was not on the Trump Train from day one, but I trust him to not make a stupid deal like Bill Clinton made with North Korea, or that Obama made with Iran. If a real agreement can be reached that's beneficial to the US and GUARANTEES that the nuclear program goes away entirely, I expect he'll make it. If not, I expect he'll walk away. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, and Trump will be suckered into another bad North Korean deal. But I'd bet that won't happen. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:09:59 AM EDT
[#6]
He has crunched the numbers and has decided he would prefer to be the richer and more internationally acceptable boss of a better fed NK rather than the dead or deposed former boss of an even more devastated NK...
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:18:33 AM EDT
[#7]
He is FOS.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:23:02 AM EDT
[#8]
He is not stupid. He is also not stable.
Today he is sincere, tomorrow, the lunatic reappears. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:37:23 AM EDT
[#9]
I think he's being sincere right now.
I like to believe someone explained to him the way the world works. That is, either he can have his country and world turned right the fuck upside down and he can sit and rot in a cell for a few years while his "trial" goes through the motions, only for him to be hung to death (or worse) by his own people, and his entire legacy destroyed. Examples being Saddam, Qaddafi, Ceausescu, Mussolini, etc. Or.. He can cooperate, bring peace to the peninsula in due time, live a rich and lavish life (like he already does) until he dies, without fear of persecution, and be hailed forever as a hero and man who united the peninsula. Which one do you really think appeals to him and his type? At some point all the grandstanding means jack shit if you can't back it up, and even he has half a brain to know if he keeps it up his days are numbered. He knows what happens. He has done what he's done to stave that off, and someone extended him an olive branch. I believe, hopefully, he's going to take it. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:38:21 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is not stupid. He is also not stable. Today he is sincere, tomorrow, the lunatic reappears. Besides, I think the party behind him are the real crazy ones. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:39:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He has crunched the numbers and has decided he would prefer to be the richer and more internationally acceptable boss of a better fed NK rather than the dead or deposed former boss of an even more devastated NK... |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:46:57 AM EDT
[#12]
Even if rocket boy is playing games DJT isn't, and that Trumps everything.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:49:48 AM EDT
[#13]
I think he is sincere. Needs to spin it as a great victory for the North and Trump will probably help with some statements about that.
He’s probably eliminated most of the old guard that could see him as a traitor. I think his first years as leader were spent trying to solidify his control. Remember, he likely spent many years growing up in Switzerland and has been exposed to all the west has to offer. Fluent in English, NBA fan, etc. I think he’s very clever. He put China in a position where they had to support him cutting a deal with the south that I think will eventually lead to a Hong Kong style negotiated reunification many years from now. How he gets the communist to accept this will play out over years. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:52:18 AM EDT
[#14]
I think there’s probably trouble brewing in his upper echelons and he fears a coup. “Saving” the country by disarming and becoming a trade partner to the US would no doubt prevent that as food and wealth pour into the country.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:56:48 AM EDT
[#15]
“Roh? Get removed and disappeared? Yes, most glorious compromise shall be reached! Me no longer so roneree!”
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:35:38 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is not stupid. He is also not stable. Today he is sincere, tomorrow, the lunatic reappears. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:37:28 AM EDT
[#17]
Communists dictators are, as a rule, sincere and totally trustworthy.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:41:40 AM EDT
[#18]
I think he is being sincere. I think he likes the good press he is getting and being seen as possible savior for bringing prosperity to NK. Also, Trump won't make a deal, just to make a deal like previous admins had. Trump walks away and says "they are serious about no nukes" KJU will instantly be pissing himself.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:44:04 AM EDT
[#19]
I really think he has been given the surrender or die talk.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:45:19 AM EDT
[#20]
I think he has learned that there are ways to play on the world stage without attempting to bully the rest of the world into accepting him.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:45:42 AM EDT
[#21]
He would be very very stupid to go this far and end in "sike"
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:47:34 AM EDT
[#22]
You can't make a poll where multiple answers can be picked, if you want it to be meaningful anyway.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:50:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, his tunnel into the mountain collasped, he would need to rebuild everything. Likely lost a bunch of people that knew how to build a bomb. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:51:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my take on the situation as well. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:51:45 AM EDT
[#25]
He may indeed try to play games. But unlike others who gave away whatever in order to make a deal with our enemies, President Trump won’t hesitate to walk and apply more economic pressure until they are ready to be sincere.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 6:18:20 AM EDT
[#26]
I think he’s being sincere and will begin the positive transformation of NK. Fat Boy wants pasta, and lots of it. He also knows he can be revered forever if he brings prosperity to his people.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 6:18:48 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is FOS. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 6:45:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Something feels different about this one.
The normal NK hissy-fit for benefits cycle doesn't seem to match up. Kim's daddy would never summit beyond his borders with us, nor did he have (potentially) a vision for the future since he had one foot in the grave. The pre-summit dismantling of nuke sites, even if one was half-destroyed already and the sites are arguably useless, is still a good-faith gesture from a country that has never before shown good-faith. There is always the chance the Norks turn around on us... again. However, this one feels different. They aren't acting out and then being trying to twist the knife for some petty pallets of cash or food or oil... they seem to actually want to play nice. The hugging in the DMZ is not the typical imagery the Norks play with. They are meeting on our terms, and we're politely acting like they are coming to the table as equals, yet we're the ones setting the demands. The key point is that IF, and it's a big IF, relations go from bad to neutral and private investment gradually lifts the standard of living and information flow increases to even moderate levels, the Norks can modernize naturally and relations can tighten organically. This is a huge deal compared to the thought of a military clash and the SKs taking over and reunifying, which means SK and Western funds have to rebuild them. They could grow on their own and have a mutual reunification in 20 years, with minimal blood and treasure squandered on our part. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 6:55:57 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There isn't a chance in hell that he's being sincere. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:03:59 AM EDT
[#30]
if history is to guide us, this is yet another NORK ruse.
that said, maybe that fat little tub of shit has realized he has two options: 1) go down in flames and end up one of history's dark footnotes. 2) cooperate, ease up on his people, allow international investment, and eventually facilitate reunification - he'll go down as one of history's greats (despite his legacy to this point). |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:04:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Too early to tell, but it looks promising.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:09:45 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He has crunched the numbers and has decided he would prefer to be the richer and more internationally acceptable boss of a better fed NK rather than the dead or deposed former boss of an even more devastated NK... The Trump administration probably laid it out real simple for him. What has his country gained by being China's puppet? Nothing, they advanced while North Korea stayed the same and how did they reward them for it? By giving them just enough food to keep his people starving and barely alive. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:10:37 AM EDT
[#33]
I ain't buying it
Tread lightly my friends |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:15:45 AM EDT
[#34]
I think he's sincere. He's just found a better scam than the one he was running. Peace sells and there are lots of buyers right now.
I think Kim really liked the whole winter Olympics deal and he wants that respect and visibility for not only his country but himself. He's a vain leader just like all the others and craves that attention. Being isolated by the world community makes the Olympics and other world stage events impossible for him. And that's just the tip of the iceberg to being 'legitimate and relevant.' And to be clear, I don't think he's going to just shut it all down with regards to the nukes. He's going to trade ballistic testing, etc. for reduced/removed sanctions. He's not giving up his nuclear program, imho. He's going to sell the 'responsible nuclear power.' The other possibility is he's using the south as a wedge. South Korea is so desperate to end this that I could see him getting super chummy with the south and Moon and then when the US balks at certain stipulations (and we will) he'll say to Moon "look, we want this, you want this, the US is going to derail this whole thing. This is a Korean issue not a US issue." Next thing you know Moon gets played and is asking for a demil of the border and removal of US troops. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:22:30 AM EDT
[#35]
He's been offered a huge carrot and a big stick by The United States and China and I believe he's intelligent enough to take the carrot, especially considering the state of the economy under his regime.
ETA: I don't believe he gives a rat's ass for "his people"; it's all about his own survival at this point since he realizes the jig is up. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:26:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ain't buying it Tread lightly my friends On the other hand he could be playing the short game. Play nice for a little bit and then right before the 2020 election go back to his old ways to make Trump look bad and possibly cost him the election. On the other hand he could have been playing the long con for years. He knows that if he ever wants to open up his country and not have the west demand that he step down as part of it that he needed to bring something big to the table. Nukes and ballistic missiles are just the type of thing to distract the west from wanting him out of power. Now he has something to give up that will make the west more than happy to let him retain power and still open up diplomatic relations and trade. I think the last one is what he is doing. He is playing games but not the type of game that will make liberals and never Trumpers happy. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:27:55 AM EDT
[#37]
I think the fat little fucker is sincere.
Can't say why. It just has a different feel to it than before. Barring some turn coat commie agitator being elected POTUS in a few years, maybe we will see peace in the Koreas. Get another fuckhead like jugears, get another fucking mess like Lybia. Wouldn't it be nice for every human being to be free and happy. We will never get that with a back stabbing commie faggot, surrender monkey, shit for brains as the leader of the worlds super power. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:29:25 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So far, every indication he's being sincere. The devil's in the details, so site verifications will tell whether he is or not. but...who knows? That's why there are several carrier groups right off his shores. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:30:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So far, every indication he's being sincere. The devil's in the details, so site verifications will tell whether he is or not. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:31:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, his tunnel into the mountain collasped, he would need to rebuild everything. Likely lost a bunch of people that knew how to build a bomb. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:35:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every indication in the last two weeks, maybe. Man, people have short memories around here Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So far, every indication he's being sincere. The devil's in the details, so site verifications will tell whether he is or not. But I would say he wasn't being sincere a couple months ago when he said he'd rain nukes down on the US. Maybe Im naive there but I think he knows that's simply not happening; A) I don't think he has the reliable delivery method yet and B) As nutty as he may be/appear, he's not suicidal. I believe he's quite the opposite. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:37:30 AM EDT
[#42]
Yes he is. I was reading that part of the deal was for us to build an electrical grid for the country. We are going to be all over that place for the forsseable future.
There is no way he will be able to start anything. It is to his benefit to not start any nuclear project. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:39:30 AM EDT
[#43]
Does anybody know how all this is being portrayed in the North Korean "news" media?
That could be somewhat telling, if you have the secret decoder ring. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:42:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anybody know how all this is being portrayed in the North Korean "news" media? That could be somewhat telling, if you have the secret decoder ring. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:43:10 AM EDT
[#45]
Xi told Un to get rid of them
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:49:57 AM EDT
[#46]
His economy has been maxed out in his quest for nuclear weapons. The country is dark and people are eating grass so that he can be in the nuclear club. There's no more resource that he can divert to the nuclear program. The result has wrecked his economy and that system might collapse, cult of personality or no. Quite simply: nuclear weapons have proven to be not worth the trouble. (Alternatively, though, it could be said that nuclear weapons brought the US to the negotiating table where he will be dealt with as a serious player.)
Now, he might take the foreign aid money and run like he has before (i.e. go back to nuclear and missile testing.) But why do that? The aid, the economic benefits that are coming, that can all go away again, and it would be unnecessary. He's already in the club of nuclear capable nations. He doesn't need to test anymore. He's proven he can do it. He has the threat, and that's more important than the realized ability. So, a reserved sincere vote, I guess. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:06:13 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
What is your opinion? I personally think he is and is getting on board with potential prosperity in his country - for reasons. And so a deal with America and South Korea starts to look like the only option left where he doesn't end up hanged or shot. He's not so much getting on board with making his country better as he is waking up with a horse's head in his bed. He's not a nice person. He's a shithead who has one option for survival...so he's picking that. This is textbook for how you handle bad men. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:07:23 AM EDT
[#48]
Believing communist lying pieces of crap is for suckers...
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:08:06 AM EDT
[#49]
I have no fucking idea!!!
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:10:36 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something feels different about this one. The normal NK hissy-fit for benefits cycle doesn't seem to match up. Kim's daddy would never summit beyond his borders with us, nor did he have (potentially) a vision for the future since he had one foot in the grave. The pre-summit dismantling of nuke sites, even if one was half-destroyed already and the sites are arguably useless, is still a good-faith gesture from a country that has never before shown good-faith. There is always the chance the Norks turn around on us... again. However, this one feels different. They aren't acting out and then being trying to twist the knife for some petty pallets of cash or food or oil... they seem to actually want to play nice. The hugging in the DMZ is not the typical imagery the Norks play with. They are meeting on our terms, and we're politely acting like they are coming to the table as equals, yet we're the ones setting the demands. The key point is that IF, and it's a big IF, relations go from bad to neutral and private investment gradually lifts the standard of living and information flow increases to even moderate levels, the Norks can modernize naturally and relations can tighten organically. This is a huge deal compared to the thought of a military clash and the SKs taking over and reunifying, which means SK and Western funds have to rebuild them. They could grow on their own and have a mutual reunification in 20 years, with minimal blood and treasure squandered on our part. |
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