You'll never get any reasoned response from Trumpers in here, he can do no wrong and they will not bring up any actual facts in support of their tired one-liners non-original quotes that avoid them ever having to justify their blind support. They'll just keep on driving their pick ups, wearing their ball caps and trimming their beards, admiring their tattoos.

See how this works?

Obama is a racist corrupt POS and I'm not sorry his bitch lost.

At this time your or hell any available alternative is A: non existent B: many squared times worse the Trump.  So  put up a pro America conservative in action winner alternative .

Newsflash: you can’t they don't exist.

When Trump leaves office (wether it be 2020 or 2024) there are two things that are a certainty.

1- The scope of .gov will be larger
2- We will have less freedoms than we did before he was elected.

Why Americans continue to vote for people who lay chains on them is astonishing. The tube is a powerful force.

And please point out in modern history when that has not been the case. Also explain how if Hillary won or Biden /Harris wins how big government would not grow exponentially more than it would with Trump.

Now is the time to lay ground work for who might come after Trump. Showcase who you think is the guy or girl.

Make the argument we can get behind. Give us who you think is the candidate of the future.

So OP, then we guess that Joe Biden can count on your support in November then? You can also trade in all your scary guns for a pussy hat and a I’m with her T-shirt too!

and winning.. you forgot that part

News flash.. there does not exist a perfect candidate.. Hitlery is a tyrannical meglomaniac.  Obama is a communist.. Biden is a corrupt sleezeball

Name a better candidate in this day and time

This echoes Obama’s comments.

Stereotypes.

Who’s your perfect candidate on the left?

What sort of judicial picks would Hillary or any future dumbocrat leave us?

Trump’s picks will have a profound impact for decades, long after he leaves office.

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You are exactly right. Every single administration in the last 100+ years has eroded the BOR and expanded the scope of .gov.  Trumps is no different.

Shit sure has accelerated like a MF under trumps reign. In the end it doesn’t make a fuck. Arguing over who is going to fuck us the fastest is the epitome of ignorance.

Voting is pure theater.. there won’t be a candidate who would expand/take back our rights and limit .gov. They won’t let that happen.

Trump had a 90% approval rating among Republican voters, then a more recent poll raised that to 96%.

So statistically these dozens of posters that flood the site with seething rage over Trump (including at least one mod) either are not Republicans, or don't vote.

Although calling Trump a traitor for signing laws that Congress sends to his desk is a new level of unhinged lol.

Is it me, or does he look even more orange than normal in that picture?

When I read certain posts in here I read it in this cunts scratchy crying voice.

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New polls out.  He is more popular than obama and Bush at this point!

I’ve posted some stupid shit after pulling a cork but I’ve never been as stupid as the originator of this thread.

I think maybe, just maybe, that the Share_Blue Squad here is trying to dispirit republicans so they stay home. But I maybe wrong. If they do convince anyone with their non-stop TDS posting, the number is in the single digits. But they are stepping up their efforts as we get closer to election day, so we need to stay vigilant and continue to counter-troll them.

FYA...

Another Democrat at it again.......

Are y'all really gearing up for the coming civil war?

Insurgent bullshit in the AR15 journalism capital of these United States???

What?

I don't think you understand what your avatar means.

You think what is going on right now is NOT stifling the little guy?

Middle class guy here... Still waiting on these tax cuts I'm hearing about. Yes I play slightly less biweekly, but then I also get less back at the end of the year. I could have adjusted that by changing my deductions.

His appointments are not looking good right now. Time will tell.

You should not be cheering for subsidising by the government. This is communist and short sighted, even though free money is hard to resist.

I see two.

You do realize if you are going to trash Trump you have to provide us with a reasonable, electable, alternative?  Oh...  You can't...

Like it or not but Trump is all we have that stands between us the communists in the democratic party.  Think of it as a line drawn in the sand.  On one side stands Trump and on the other side stands the socialists and communists.  Sounds to me like you're a commie...

That one is still in the works.

Did you already forget about the $2,000,000,000,000 one that already passed and was signed into law by Trump? That happened.

The fear of reaction was why all the anti gun stuff didn't didn't pass after sandy Hook. Sounds good when "we" are in office, but what about when things are different?

Do y'all remember when trolls actually tried, best one was dloken.  Now they are just trash.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thetruthaboutguns.com/after-atf-ruling-fostech-recalls-all-origin-sbv-shotguns-offers-consumers-replacement-options/amp/
Here's one. There have been others.

And don't forget his appointment of Barr.

Not to mention... He pushed the atf to reclassify bump stocks into machine guns, so technically that is another example.

To those requesting an alternative, it's obvious that there IS no viable alternative to win this election cycle.

But to me, the problem with Trump is perfectly illustrated by the situation of Corey Stewart vs Nick Freitas in VA to try to unseat Tim Kaine.

Trump not being a principled small government conservative, he has revitalized and energized the conservatives who think our current level of government is great and that we just need a better manager.  Trump is a better manager of this monstrosity of government than most.  But the government is still the savior to him.

Corey Stewart defeated Nick Freitas in the primary because Stewart was a Trump Republican.  In other words, he was a loud mouthed know-it-all who exuded "power" even though he's a weasel.  Nick Freitas is best described as a Thomas Massie, but with an Army Ranger background instead of an MIT background.

We had a chance at a HELL of a senator in Freitas.  Instead, we got the loud mouthed Trump Republican, Stewart.  Stewart promised to support EVERYTHING Trump supported.  Freitas had the audacity to have principles that would guide him instead of allowing Trump to lead him around by a leash.

Stewart won the primary on this.  And then unsurprisingly he got destroyed in the general.

I would love to see Nick Freitas run for president.  I would love to see Thomas Massie run for president.  I would support a Dan Crenshaw.  Or a Ted Cruz.

But the Trump Republicans will push for Donald Trump Jr.  Or Mike Pence.  Trump has become a brand.  "Republicans" who do not brand themselves with Trump are being destroyed.  For example, Trump supported Thomas Massie's primary contender as soon as Massie wouldn't support the secret voting of the socialist Cares Act.  Trump joined McCain and trashed Rand Paul for wanting to fully repeal Obamacare.  Etc, etc.

We fucking need at least a 3rd legitimate party or this country is fucking toast.  We need a left wing, a moderate wing (like Trump), and a liberty wing.

zing!!!!!  sporty this morning!!

i dont really understand macro-ecoomics, but im leaning towards it doesnt matter?  or it doesnt mattr to congress?  i mean why else would we waste so much money...

oh yea, its cause everyone wants to reap the benefits of illegal immigrant labor,  buy cheap trash from mao mart, and they dont want their worhtless inlaw to lose thier cushy gubmint job....

doing the right thing gonna take sacrifice, and no-one will do it, so, carry on!

"Nice" Republicans get beaten down by the democratic machine.  If you split the parties as you are suggesting than the democratics will steam roller over everyone.  For the first time in 20 years we have a president who is fighting back, appointing conservative judges and advancing a pro-business agenda yet some are still not satisfied.  Never-Trumper's are not the solution; You are the PROBLEM!!

I'll take freedom over businesses getting a few incentives, wealth redistribution, gun bans, red flag laws, and funny tweets.

It has to get worse before it gets better. A r loss will make a needed point that any politician can't just do whatever they fuck they want and expect to get all of their party's votes. There are expectations that come with the vote. I understand not being able to get everything we want. But for fuck sake, how about not actively attacking the bill of rights? Is that too much to ask?

As usual, I don't agree with the points you make that you seem to believe are a slam dunk.

I said nothing about Republicans being "Nice" as I don't think that is a requirement.  I don't think you need to be "nice" when someone is calling you racist.  I DO however think you need to be "nice" when you are trying to form a coalition to get legislation passed.  This is one of the problems with Trump that Trump supporters do not see.  He has passed almost no bills, almost all of his accomplishments have purely been in the form of executive action.  Unless you consider the Cares Act to be a Trump success.

Why has he passed almost no bills?  I think it's because he acts like an executive, not like a leader.  That is one of the reasons.  What is the other reason?  I think it's because he's not principled, and he appears to not be able to focus on a single problem and keep the country zeroed in on it.  He seems like a puppy constantly chasing the last lightning bug to light up.

You don't see that.  You probably lay out excuses like "it's the media's fault!" or "it's the swamp's fault!" or something similar.  When it's always somebody else's fault, maybe that's proof that you're not talking about a leader.

I do see him running a mostly pro-business agenda.  But he certainly doesn't care about the current businesses that utilize China in their supply chain, does he?  Of course he doesn't.  You think this is a necessary sacrifice, I'm sure.  I don't.  I think that it is anti-business.  And I think if he had a TRUE pro-business agenda he would help us be more competitive with China instead of mostly maintaining our awful business and employment laws, as well as other items that impact the work force.  Where does he stand on the minimum wage?  How about the mandated sick leave that he signed into law?  Etc.

If we split the parties and the people truly believed that the theoretical Liberty Party had a chance, we have NO IDEA what would happen because it simply hasn't been done.  For example, there are MANY Bernie bros who strongly dislike the establishment and side more closely with someone like Thomas Massie than they do with Joe Biden.

Small government is the ONLY solution.  Stop arguing that your manager is a better manager.  That is only an argument that collapse has been at best delayed.  I want to actually Make America Great Again, not just put it on a hat.

Because maybe it's the job of Congress to "pass bills"? Presidents don't pass bills. They sign them into law or veto them once they are received from Congress.

It's sad that you immediately assume that I don't know that.

Presidents have ALWAYS had influence on legislation.

Why did we call it Obamacare?

But you're not going to get freedom...  You are going to get a democrat.  All the bullshit you are accusing Trump of will be 100x's worse.  You are seriously mentally broken if you think the democrats will better protect the second amendment and the Bill of Rights than Trump.  You are seriously mentally broken if you think there is any other person who can stand up to the democrats and beat them at their own game.  You are seriously mentally broken if you think getting rid of Trump will make anything better.

If you were a republican how would you go about getting consensus from the likes of Pelosi and Schumer?

I have NO IDEA how I could ever do that.

Presidents have influence on legislation in the first 100 days.

Trump, being a novice to politics at first, didn't have much influence.

Oh, right. Sorry about that, then. I automatically assumed that you didn't know how things worked when I read your post that opined dismay because the President didn't pass any bills.

So we have gotten to the root of the problem: you don't understand how the government, as defined by the founding fathers, is suppose to work.  Congress passes bills and the President, as the Chief Executive (i.e. the executive branch) executes those bills.  Perhaps you have heard of the term "checks and balances"?  There are limitations to the power of the President so much of your dissatisfaction with Trump is a gross misunderstanding of what he can or cannot do.  During the first two years of his term he was limited by the leader of the house, the never-Trumper Paul Ryan, and the he continues to be limited by Nancy Pelosi and her Democrats.  In order for a Bill to reach his desk it has to pass both the House and the Senate, and with the House being marginally hostile during his first two years and extremely hostile since the 2018 elections, the kind of bills you want were never going to happen.  Trump cannot sign a bill that does not reach his desk.

Because Bills originate in Congress when they reach his desk he can choose to sign them or veto them.  Because those bills contain vital and essential components as well as pork and bull shit Presidents are sometimes force to accept things they hate in order to get what they believe they need.  That is reality but blaming Trump on being forced to accept democratic crap is itself bullshit.  "You" and your friends are to blame for this by seeking to undermine Trump which further empowers our enemies the democrats.  The more Trump is undermined and the more democrats are empowered the more crap they can force upon us.

In order to get the change you want we have to give Trump a congress that will work with him.  That means denying the majority to the democrats and never-trumpers by a sufficient margin so that bills acceptable to all of us reach his desk for signature.  You are acting like Trump is the King and can make whatever he wants to happen.

Pelosi and Schumer are power hungry, unprincipled royalty at this point.  It's a silly strategy to directly target them.

But 1st and foremost, it helps to not be divisive 24/7.  It also helps to try to avoid making every issue about yourself.  Dealing at those levels of government, ego and perceived strength plays a huge role in decision making on both sides.  You have to avoid it to be a leader.  If you disagree with that principle, take it up with Jocko Willink.  So you have to mitigate egos as best as you can.  The other side has to see it as not damaging to be seen AGREEING with you, for example.

**Meanwhile, Trump is belittling Rand Paul for wanting to repeal Obamacare.**

My strategy would involve going after what I think is the root cause of all problems.  For starters, the strategy wouldn't be focused on Pelosi and Schumer.  It would be focused on moderates.  For example, a nationwide campaign aimed at reducing the size of bills, or time requirements that must be met for the bill to be read and digested by the population before voting on them.  There is almost NOBODY who believes we should be giving 2000 page bills to congress critters one hour before a vote is a good way to do government.  Except for the establishment.  Such an indefensible act needs to stay in the spotlight.  Crack them, break them, keep them accountable on why they feel the need to "Pass things to find out what's in it".

**Meanwhile, Trump is supporting a primary challenger to Thomas Massie because he wanted Congress to be held accountable on the largest spending bill ever.**

Anyone who stands against you is anti-electorate accountability.  Break them on it.  Separate out the moderates on it.  If you chip away at the moderates and start pulling the party away, only then will Pelosi and Schumer change.

When the media tries to talk about Russia collusion, a simple "Fuck Russia, let the trial play out, I'm here to focus on keeping congress accountable to the voters.  That is the only issue I care about and the only issue I will answer questions on going forward."  And disregard EVERY question that isn't about the one subject I care about.  No more chasing fireflies.

Just one simple example of how I personally would handle things.  Not nice, but respectful until it's time to be disrespectful, and only targeted disrespect WHILE offering a way for the disrespected to save face.  Because results matter.  "Owning the libs" with Tweets doesn't.

I remember it differently.  I remember the State of the Union Address where Obama first laid out his plans for health care reform.  And it had all of the major portions of what would become the Affordable Care Act.

I'm fully aware that Republicans named it "Obamacare" anticipating it to be an albatross around his neck.  That was actually the point of my question, because it was bait.  Because the same people in this thread who are saying "Trump has no influence on legislation" are the ones who will call it "Obamacare" without noticing the irony.

AM I in before the op realized he knows EXACTLY shit about politics and his fantasy of being president? My gut feel is NO.. Attached File

Yes.  I do.  And you focusing on just that misconception of me instead of arguing my points is exactly what I hate about internet debates.

People just run away from the good points you make and then try to invent a way to interpret what you said in order to attack or delegitimize you.  Like Pelosi and Schumer do with Trump.

Why don't you ask the obvious questions:

Why didn't so many Republicans like Trump?  Was it because they were the evil swamp and Trump was the outsider?

Or was it because Trump was a divisive wrecking ball on his way to securing the nomination and presidency?

Why is it that the bad things are NEVER Trump's fault?

Edited to add:  I think the thread title is stupid.  Trump is neither a dumbass or a traitor.  To me, he is simply someone who screams "I LOVE AMERICA" and means it, but he doesn't seem to really understand what made America great, nor what makes the American political experiment special.