User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 9:42:11 PM EDT
I have moved almost all my semiautos from .40 to 9mm and love the round. I have a 9mm can (Rex Silentium MG7) that ironically I only use on 357 rifles and AR's...
I have plenty of AR's, bolt actions, lever actions, revolvers, shotguns, etc. I don't have a single PCC (unless you count a Ruger 77/357 or Marlin 1894's). I'm heavily contemplating my next purchase being one. It has to be threaded 1/2-28. Here is what I'm looking at: Sub2000, currently $240 after rebate. I've heard it's all plastic but some people seem to love them:  Ruger PCC with the Magpul Backpacker Stock. Seems better than the Sub 2000 but 3 times as expensive ($640):  Henry Homesteader. Doesn't break down, old school, but awesome ($700)! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 9:49:44 PM EDT
[#1]
They're fun, and cheap to feed
I don't see any tactical value of one , but they're fun, and that might be all that matters |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 9:57:25 PM EDT
[#2]
I bought a S&W FPC because I have a few M&P pistols, and the mags are compatible.
The folding feature makes for a neat stampless backpack gun. Practically speaking though, it's basically a range toy. I would never pick it over an AR for home defense. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 9:57:53 PM EDT
[#3]
I sell a lot of SUB-2000s. I have yet to sell a Ruger PCC.
I have a SUB sitting at my feet now, very quiet w/ my large Panic Stamp can. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 9:59:44 PM EDT
[#4]
The KelTec is a cheap, janky, and unreliable piece of junk. It's also surprisingly unpleasant to shoot.
The Ruger is reliable, accurate, comfortable, and it has a pretty good trigger, but it's so doggone heavy that it's a little extra iffy to make the compromises of a rifle size PCC. The Herny is kind of expensive and completely unproven. I have owned a Sub2000, I currently own a Ruger PCC, and I've also had a CZ Scorpion and a CMMG Banshee. I have been the happiest with the Ruger and the CMMG. 9mm PCCs are a lot of fun, but the compromises are there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:00:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Don't know why but I want the Henry w/ Glock magwell bad.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:01:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Scorpion at like $670 right now is awesome
Or AP5 @ $900 |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:01:40 PM EDT
[#7]
AP5 all day. Honest Outlaw (YouTuber) had a terrible experience with the Homesteader and found it to be an unreliable POS.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:04:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AP5 all day. Honest Outlaw (YouTuber) had a terrible experience with the Homesteader and found it to be an unreliable POS. Yup. MP types are miles better than these cheap, fugly PCCs. I've got HKs, but would buy the Turkish versions in a heartbeat over the options posted in the OP. Still... his thread, his preferences. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:04:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Built one with a New Frontier Glock mag lower with a side charging New Frontier upper.
I used a 16” barrel. It’s great fun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:05:42 PM EDT
[#10]
They are fun, but not the best tool for most jobs.
A kel-tec for $240 is not bad just to get into it. They usually work. Mine was a little finicky with different ammo. I gave it to my son and got a Ruger. It's a more solid gun and I like the upgrade. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:05:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Scorpion at like $670 right now is awesome Or AP5 @ $900 These were a lot more appetizing with a brace... I just know I would have to SBR it within a day or two. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:07:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bought a S&W FPC because I have a few M&P pistols, and the mags are compatible. The folding feature makes for a neat stampless backpack gun. Practically speaking though, it's basically a range toy. I would never pick it over an AR for home defense. https://i.postimg.cc/Wb9HqsKS/FPC.jpg These are very cool, I already have M&P mags but no Glock mags... Looking into it now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:07:38 PM EDT
[#13]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:07:45 PM EDT
[#14]
No. I like 9mm guns. PCC, Altor single shot, revolvers, derringers, etc.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:08:29 PM EDT
[#15]
And I went with a Banshee.
I love that thing! |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:09:47 PM EDT
[#16]
I like my ruger pc carbine. Should have picked up a charger when I had the chance. No reason not to have them in a collection. They are fun to shoot
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:10:19 PM EDT
[#17]
If the pistol brace ban gets rescinded, I’m getting either an MP5 clone or a Stribog.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:11:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bought a S&W FPC because I have a few M&P pistols, and the mags are compatible. The folding feature makes for a neat stampless backpack gun. Practically speaking though, it's basically a range toy. I would never pick it over an AR for home defense. https://i.postimg.cc/Wb9HqsKS/FPC.jpg At some point I hope to get one of these as a get-home-carbine. It would definitely not supplant a real AR for HD though… I do like the mag compatibility with my preferred carry choices, the M&P series. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:11:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: I have moved almost all my semiautos from .40 to 9mm and love the round. I have a 9mm can (Rex Silentium MG7) that ironically I only use on 357 rifles and AR's... I have plenty of AR's, bolt actions, lever actions, revolvers, shotguns, etc. I don't have a single PCC (unless you count a Ruger 77/357 or Marlin 1894's). I'm heavily contemplating my next purchase being one. It has to be threaded 1/2-28. Here is what I'm looking at: Sub2000, currently $240 after rebate. I've heard it's all plastic but some people seem to love them: https://gun.deals/sites/default/files/Untitledfff.jpg Ruger PCC with the Magpul Backpacker Stock. Seems better than the Sub 2000 but 3 times as expensive ($640): https://gun.deals/sites/default/files/e317c726b792aa0c9945f9202aac2e36.jpg Henry Homesteader. Doesn't break down, old school, but awesome ($700)! https://gun.deals/sites/default/files/Screenshot%202023-08-27%20at%2017.46.49.png Get a USW-A1 and thank me later. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:14:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're fun, and cheap to feed I don't see any tactical value of one , but they're fun, and that might be all that matters |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:15:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're fun, and cheap to feed I don't see any tactical value of one , but they're fun, and that might be all that matters Under 100yds, they are quite effective. They are also handy in an urban environment. Paired with a G17 or G19, you have 2 weapons, one magazine, one ammunition. There are tons of youtube videos of 100yd+ shots penetrating ballistic gel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:15:57 PM EDT
[#22]
I have a Ruger Pc9, reliable and accurate, heavy for no real reason and I have the free float version. I bought it early when they were around $500. I don't shoot it but I won't get rid of it for some reason.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:20:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Of the three that you posted, I'd choose the Ruger, not a fan of KT or Henry. PCCs are great fun to shoot (and typically suppress much better than rifle cartridges and are cheaper to shoot) and while that's certainly enough reasons on their own to buy one, I don't feel under-gunned with one as a potential defensive rifle. Yeah, more criminals seem to be wearing body armor, but even with armor, once rounds start flying it seems to deter all but the most determined, or stupid. With steel plates being cheap you ought to be training to make alternative shots anyways. I can't recall any EMS calls off the top of my head where the attackers voluntarily stuck around once shots were fired, whether it was a .22 pistol or something larger. There are certainly outliers, ex. it wouldn't be my first choice if I lived in the hood, ran a drug house and was worried about rival gangs or was dumb enough to plan on shooting it out with the cops, but do your risk assessments and go from there. Not everything has to be whiz-bang tactical, HSLD; ex., when I'm fishing or kayaking I usually carry a S&W 642 with the first round often being a shotshell (water moccasins are a thing around much of SC).
ETA- I'd really like to have a PSA AK-V, AR-V or Glock mag AR (who am I kidding, I want all three. )
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:21:23 PM EDT
[#24]
I’ve got a Ruger PCC and I love it. It’s a little heavy but I still like it. I’ve gotten pretty good with it now and it’s graduated to the house HD gun.
Accurate, reliable and built like a tank it’s a perfect companion for my G17. I’m not sure why everyone puts down a PCC for a HD gun. I’ve no desire to blow out everyone’s eardrums including my Grandkids that stay with us a lot. People rely on a 9mm pistol for HD, why not a PCC??? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:21:35 PM EDT
[#25]
The Kel-Tec shoots well + it fits nicely when folded in those hotel room safes. Great travel carbine.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:22:13 PM EDT
[#26]
They have a lot of utility for training. You can train rifle steel at much safer distances, and not damage your steel. It is nice to bring a single type of ammo to the range. I actually think Henry would have sold more of a lever gun in 9mm that took Glock mags, than they will the semi version. It has a ton of competition, like Beretta, Ruger, etc, etc.
The Keltec is awesome for the price. They are almost cheaper today than when I purchased one 20 years ago. I wouldn't buy one today. I'd build an AR 9mm upper before I bought a dedicated carbine, other than something like the APS. Sig has a pretty sick AR based PCC, but the price is wonky. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:25:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Unpopular opinion but I prefer the Ruger to the MP5.
I'll give that the MP5 recoil is better and it's far cooler, but the dollar-to-fun ratio goes to the Ruger if you can get a decent deal. If I was fighting with it I suspect I'd take an MP5, but ARs exist so I probably wouldn't. I had a Keltec years ago, it was fun. No hate toward it, but the Ruger feels more solid and I prefer to not have the handle reciprocating under my jaw. I do wish Ruger would sell their rail to the aftermarket |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:27:19 PM EDT
[#28]
I don't do much hog hunting at night as I used to.
But whenever I would see one lone boar by itself out in the open my fun thing to do was to take my 9 mm A.R., which has an inexpensive Flir PTS 233 on top and see just how close I could get to it before I couldn't stand it and had to pull the trigger. That was the only thing to being an adrenaline junkie that I've ever tried. Anyway, closest one ever approached before I knew I was about to get eaten to death was 27 steps. Neck shot and it dropped. Pitch black dark with no moon, and I could see it moving with my unaided eye. Anyway, I've shot dozens of large hogs with that 9 mm carbine and it does a number on them. Routinely shot them up to 100 yards, just to avoid making a lot of unnecessary noise when there were other hogs way off in the distance. So I wouldn't totally discount it for home defense. But that's just me personally. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:28:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Op buy the one you like. Life's short. I've shot both the Ruger and the Sub2k. I like them both. The ass hat up top who said they don't run well you know what they say about opinions. It's that or I got lucky approximately 7000 times out of the gen 2 9mm without 1 yes 1 hickup , FTF or FTE. That's a lot of luck.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:30:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And I went with a Banshee. I love that thing! Ditto. To me, a 9mm PCC is a training gun. Something that has the same manual of arms as my ARs but shoots cheaper ammo. None of the OP guns have the same manual of arms, but the Banshee that takes the (modified internals) PMags does. Yes, it costs A LOT MORE than OP options but for the purpose I seek it is ideal. Suppressed, I can run that thing quick and quiet without bothering anybody. Of course, a S&W M&P 15-22 fits the bill as well (and runs even cheaper/quieter with a rimfire can on it). The difference is that a 9mm PCC with premium defensive ammo is WORLDS better than either a 9mm pistol or a 22 carbine, but still falls WELL SHORT of a true AR in .223 or .300 BLK. With our local IDPA-style club PCC is a different division than rimfire rifle. Ironically, I run the Banshee the same speed (or sometimes a tad faster) than my rimfire rifles. That RDB action is a marked improvement over the straight-blowback actions of old. Yes, I have an old Olympic Arms blowback 9mm PCC but it rarely gets much range time now that the Banshee is in the stable. OP really needs to decide what the mission for this piece of hardware is. If it is a backpack or "get home" gun, then maybe his options are valid. If the intent is to SBR it and use it as a training/suppressed gun then the Banshee is king (unless you go for the even pricier roller-delayed action route). Point is, there's no free lunch. Every decision has tradeoffs. Sometimes those trade-offs are money, other times it is having to learn multiple manuals-of-arms. A very personal decision. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:32:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryThat's a lot of wtf in one post |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:38:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Have never owned one, son has a scorpion and it is fun to shoot but IMO, even though you get more velocity, it still just a big pistol.
If I'm lugging around the size and weight of a short rifle, I want it to do short rifle things... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:38:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The KelTec is a cheap, janky, and unreliable piece of junk. It's also surprisingly unpleasant to shoot. The Ruger is reliable, accurate, comfortable, and it has a pretty good trigger, but it's so doggone heavy that it's a little extra iffy to make the compromises of a rifle size PCC. The Herny is kind of expensive and completely unproven. I have owned a Sub2000, I currently own a Ruger PCC, and I've also had a CZ Scorpion and a CMMG Banshee. I have been the happiest with the Ruger and the CMMG. 9mm PCCs are a lot of fun, but the compromises are there. I have a great time w/ my SUB, it's very quiet w/ my can & 147 grn WWB, and runs steel out of ETS mags my Gen 5 Glock 26 can't manage. So it's at least more reliable than my Gen 5 Glock 26. It does leave a bruise after popping paper at 100 yds, but that's b/c it's so light. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:39:16 PM EDT
[#34]
I wouldn’t say it’s a stupid idea, but it makes more sense when the cartridge you’re chambering benefits from a longer barrel length. You don’t get that much more from a longer barrel with 9mm, so it’s really about sight radius, mag compatibility, and ease of use.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:42:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're fun, and cheap to feed I don't see any tactical value of one , but they're fun, and that might be all that matters This^ I have the Ruger with the backpack stock. Pure fun. Nothing else. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:49:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Rereading the OP's post, I see no mention of "philosophy of use" (to steal the most verbose guntuber's catchphrase), simply that he wanted one. That's a perfectly valid reason to buy a gun in my book- find whatever you like and go for it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 10:59:25 PM EDT
[#37]
I like mine, it's definitely one of my more fun carbines.
I've had quite a few, including a couple SUB-2Ks and a Ruger police carbine, as well as a 16" semi Uzi, but I've always preferred the AR in 9mm.   
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:05:19 PM EDT
[#38]
No regerts…
    Place holder for banshee pic |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:12:42 PM EDT
[#39]
I have 2.5 9mm pcc’s I like them a lot.
Colt 10.5,Cz scorpion , both sbr’s and a 16” upper that will soon be on a 9 mm Glock mag lower. Very hand and easy to shoot, much less muzzle blast and cheaper to shoot. I can have a novice running a plate rack in 10 minutes, try that with a hand gun. I see no problem with a 147 jhp out of a 8-10” barrel, I’m not overly worried about hit teams with full body armor coming in my house. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:16:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These were a lot more appetizing with a brace... I just know I would have to SBR it within a day or two. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Scorpion at like $670 right now is awesome Or AP5 @ $900 These were a lot more appetizing with a brace... I just know I would have to SBR it within a day or two. Just put a brace on it.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:18:54 PM EDT
[#41]
No. Case in point: 9mm Radial Delayed Blowback and .22 faux MP5SDs
 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:20:41 PM EDT
[#42]
I have a Keltec Sub2000 gen 2 and I like it a lot.
Granted, mine has quite a few Mcarbo upgrades but it shoots nice. Despite being a direct blowback design, I don't think it has a lot of recoil. The only recoil mitigation I have is the rubber ring Mcarbo sells that goes in the buffer tube. I have heard good things about the Ruger PCC, so that might be a good option but I haven't personally shot one. I would have no problems using my sub2000 as a home defense gun but I generally use it when I go on motorcycle rides. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:22:44 PM EDT
[#43]
The Henry Homesteader got a bad review from Honest outlaw who showed it malfunctioning
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:39:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Seems like every month, there's a PCCs are dumb thread.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:44:38 PM EDT
[#45]
I rather enjoy my PS M10/45 and my AK-V.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:49:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Imo you should add the Keltec SUB CQB to that list if your are actually considering a SUB2000.
I own an Evo with just about everything from HBI and love it, it will be even better when my R9 clears. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:50:25 PM EDT
[#47]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:53:05 PM EDT
[#48]
I have and love a JP GMR-15. I shoot it at "pistol matches" to rustle jimmies.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:53:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really like my GHM9 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/361826/20230814_151531_jpg-2937014.JPG YES! Well done |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 11:56:32 PM EDT
[#50]
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File