I see we have an M1A forum but I didn't want to get a biased response

I'm in CA where obviously our ARs are really badly neutered.. however, M1As are totally good to go as long as the flash hider is swapped out for a muzzle brake. Springfield even sells the mfrom the factory that way. I'm kind of intrigued by the traditional, NRA/CMP hi-power style of rifle competition. I did an Appleseed shoot a few months ago and, while I didn't get Rifleman score, I still had a ton of fun and learned a lot. I plan to keep practicing and keep doing shoots until I get Rifleman.

Anyways, if I want to try getting into competition, can I have fun and do well with an M1A, or would I just be wasting time and money?

They are more labor intensive to keep in top accuracy , and it is more alchemy/art than science

But unless you are gunning for national championships a basic M1A will do a decent job to get ya going

M1a1 sucks dick in about everything it does.

In hipower it will get raped

A neutered AR will beat it like a bitch all day long

The M1A has been the long standing king of high power matches, check out the M1A match and Super match rifles. Even a standard would be a very good choice.

Those were specifically designed for the CMP and Camp Perry matches.

You're off to great start with an M1A.

I know, I was once a conscript of CA. I had a few of those during my internment.

No.  Hell no.
You can compete with it, sure.

The quesiton is...do you want to stand a chance in hell of actually winning?

If so...then hell no, don't use an M1A rifle.

Abrams are a world class tank

Maybe if you have a bedded stock super match M1A. They are finicky, there is a reason the military, I.e. US Army, match teams switched to ARs in the 80s, there is a lot written about this online if you search.

I'm going to guess you have zero clue what you're talking about.

Not always, but way more fickle.  Accuracy is not as good consistently. But way more fun to shoot for me back when I shot hi power.
Consistently shot in the top 10% at the small club I shot at with a usgi parts m1A.

I shot for fun with very little gear. Just a hasty sling and some reloaded ammo. Not even a mat or jacket......old school USMC style.

My astigmatism wouldn't let me do it now.

Wrong.

Give OP some valid advice, this is non sense.

You smoking crack

You can guess ali you wont.

They don't win.

I used an M1A competitively.

They are hot garbage, and ARs perform significantly better with less work, and money involved.

Get a Criterion barreled AR, float the barrel, use a Geissele trigger.

M14 pattern rifles are hot garbage.

The M1A was top of the class for a very long time. Old timers with their M1As were hard to keep up with at my club. The introduction of optics into service rifle classes has finally sounded the death knell for them, IMO. But if I was stuck in your position I'd go the M1A route.

And the maintenence cycle on them is blown out of proportion. My father shot an M1A when he was on our state guards team, and then later with an AR. Their maintenence cycles were pretty much the same.

M1a will win if you do your part. 1moa is 1moa no matter what you do it with. .308 is more expensive to shoot.

That's your retort?

I used two M1A's and an AR for years in CMP matches and far back in the DCM days, I've shot roughly 70 matches now.

You're experience?

Smoking crack....STFU

A 1moa m1a is a hard thing to build as well as maintain.

A 1moa ar can be bought on the net in parts a put th together by a monkey

But did you win or are you just posting about how it could have been??

Like most fatass m1a shooters

OK, you have my attention since your profile says CA... are you running a bullet button, or featureless, or fixed mag, or ??? I didn't get into this whole thing in time to have a bullet button AR, so I'm stuck with either a completely fixed magazine or one of those stupid kydex pistol grip wraps.

You don't even know how to post on the internet you old fossils.

But my m1a and belly

Honestly I don't really care about winning matches but at least knowing I'm not the bottom of the barrel... that's what I'm more concerned about. Knowing that I can consistently score in at least the top 20-30% of shooters. It sounds like if I do my part, that's possible.

It's the shooter.

I place in the top 1/4 in 3 gun using a shockwave, my edc 1911, and a pretty normal carbine.

I'd be perfectly comfortable laying on any line with a rack grade M16A2, M1A, or M1 and feel confident I'd place squarely where my skill puts me.

When you become a top % shooter that ranks nationaly than the tools become more important since the gap between 1,2,3 is measured in .01s

The reason it's still viable in high power service matches is the Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert, and Master classifications. They give 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place awards for each class, so you're not really competing against everyone, just the folks in your classification. If you are good, an M1a can probably get you a medal in Marksman or sharpshooter easily. Up until the late 80's they ruled the service high power matches. The AR platforms may be better now, but that damn sight radius on the M1a sure make hitting shit easy.

I'm an Appleseed shoot boss not a competitor (hope to change that in '19) but I'd do an M1A in your situation.

Even a "rack grade" M1A with quality ammo will be good enough for you to try the sport out and learn and improve.  At some point you'll want to get it accurized but I bet you'll be happy with it long enough to figure out what you want to do.

You're not going to win a national title with one (neither am I) but that doesn't mean it sucks.

Show us where the m1a touched you. You’re in a safe place here, it’s alright.

Get an O3A3, shoot vintage and beat all these shitheads...

If you are not scoring Rifleman yet in Appleseed it'll be a while before you're shooting in the top 20-30% of shooters even if you have the best rifle in the world.

That's not a slam at all just a fact that it is very much the indian not the arrow within reason.

Just a few topics to acclimate you on the M14/M1A platform

Glass bedding
Gas cylinder shimming
Scope Mount Shimming
Op-Rod guide perma-weld
Barrel Peening

Handloading? Good luck

NM AR's used to be in vogue... those will out-shoot a box-stock m1a and is about = with a Super Match M1A without ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the bullshit of firing one past a thousand rounds

An M1A is an inferior choice in every way.  First off, your ammo costs twice as much and you know how you improve at shooting?  By shooting,

Second, the M1A is more expensive to maintain, requires more love to even come close to an accurized AR, and will be shot out when a National Match AR is just settling in.

The M1A is an abortion that never should have survived the FAL and is a tribute to the monumental ignorance of the Army ordnance corps.

Be shot some service rifle. There’s a saying. “You can shoot an AR or get beat by one.”  Now that’s not the hard standard. The best shooter with an M14 will clean house against sub par guys with ARs.

All things being equal, the AR is an far more an inherently accurate animal. Much is the guy pulling the trigger.

@bisonbisonbison

I love M1A/M14s, to the point I've spent about 10k building them in the last few years alone, but I would never recommend one for any serious purpose. They weren't great to begin with, and they're extremely tempermental as precision rifles. The worst part is they can be shooting great one day and then mysteriously take a dump all over the target the next. I would never put one up against any AR.

Such an edge.

I would totally shoot with an M1A. I shoot to improve my skills,and its a fun platform to mess with. If you can be happy just by seeing improvement in yourself,then who cares what other people think about it.Go shoot!

Of course it is it just kinda sucks compared to a good AR15 especially from a dollar to dollar standpoint but then that's the price of living in california lol. I can't wait to get the fuck outa here

I still shoot my M1A in Matches, But I'm not in it to win... I just like the rifle. If I were in it to win and get high master, it would be with an AR, not an M1A.
But like others have said, in Cali, you have limited options.

Our command rifle team shot M14/M1As at the local high power matches.  We always placed high in the military sections.  Usually top 3.  We did not have M16s.  Even sent a few to Camp Perry.  Unfortunately I was never able to afford the trip.  It was always no cost TAD.

Our team captain, a good friend of mine, would load match grade ammo for himself and me.  We were not supposed to (per command policy) but no one ever checked

No, absolutely, I agree with your sentiment. I mean top 20-30% as an end goal, not as a current status. if I can eventually get to the point where I can go to a match and know that I'm a better shooter than most of the shooters there, then I'll be happy even if I never win one.

Sounds like a plan.

The M1A really is only used in matches anymore by the guys that are Only there to have fun.  They are all downside compared to an AR.  Lighter, more recoil, more expensive, etc.  the only positive is the sight radius if you are going to shoot irons.  The CMP and NRA both did their part to ruin iron sight shooting over the last few years, so pretty much no one shoots them anymore.  If you want to be competitive, an AR with a decent 4.5x scoops is what you’ll need.  Any other way will just slow you down and make things harder than they need to be.  A NM A2 is a heck of a lot cooler though.

Im still trying to get all mine in the x from a ten round string,but that's my personal goal and I am working towards it by shooting.A2 is bad ass though.

OK.........let's get something straight with a simple question.
When the was last time an M1A or M14 NM won Perry?

I've shot Service Rifle with both a M14 NM and an AR-15 and
shot the All Army. The M14 NM was a good rifle in its day but
its day is long over. Nobody competitive on a high level shoots
an M1A or M14 NM today..........PERIOD. Nobody on a high level
who is competitive has shot one for a very long time. PERIOD.

The people I competed with who tried shooting M1A and M14 NM
rifles in competition and wanted to be competitive all gave up and
moved to different platforms after getting frustrated. It's not an easy
rifle to shoot. It's an expensive rifle to shoot and you need an honest
to God gunsmith or armorer who actually knows the platform.

When I shot one I did it for fun after the sun had already set on the design.
I never enjoyed shooting the M14 NM in competition and didn't compete with
it much. It's a difficult rifle to shoot well, especially in the rapids, compared to
an AR-15. It will beat a poor position apart in the rapids. Things you can get away
with shooting an AR-15, poor position, you simply can not get away with shooting
an M1A.

OP, really think about what you want to do. If you just want to have fun and don't mind
not being competitive, getting stared at as "that guy" and are going into it knowing you
are going to spend much more money than you need to, then go for it. However, if you
want to spend less money, learn faster and shoot at a higher level, then go with an AR.

Do not fall for the cult of the M1A's "Muh Manly Thirty Caliber Tree Gun" mantra.....if you
want to be competitive. I've seen lots of people get frustrated shooting one and trying to
learn their quirks. It's just so much BS.

If you do want to just have fun and start shooting an M1A than one bit of wisdom, if you
get hooked on the sport and decide you want to be competitive, for the love of God don't
try making your M1A into something its not. Don't dump a pile of money into it thinking
if you just upgrade it then you'll be competitive. I've seen people dump piles of money into
them before giving up and selling them off. Just buy it, get some gear and have fun and shoot
it as is, and realize what it is, and what it is not.

The best M14 guru I know building National Match rifles is Gus Norcross of Angus Arms out
of Wiscassett Maine. Good dude, super nice guy and very well respected by people who actually
know this system. He's an old NGMTU Armorer and builds them Army style but does know the
USMC way as one of his best friends (and my rifle coach) shot on the USMC Team back in the day.
http://www.angusarms.com/

This.....

He's not talking about the carbine or the Tommy gun of course either of those 2 would suck dick.

And if he isn't shooting Rifleman yet, he still needs work on the fundamentals.  IMO, it makes more sense to develop those fundamentals first with cheap .22, before moving up to High Power.

If you have an end goal of shooting in the top 20 to 30% then don't even consider an M1A.
You are just going to waste time and money. Lots and lots of money which could be much better spent
some place else. Shit piles of money.

The best thing you can do is find a good couch who can actually teach. This, well beyond anything else,
will get you the best and fastest results. You need someone who can actually teach you the things you
don't have a clue on based upon your shooting results. A guy who can look at your rapid fire target which
started off good and then strings upward and say, "you tightened your left hand after your reload..."
Lots of people can shoot well but not teach what they know. Find someone who can teach.

Buy a .22 LR and set it up like your competition rifle and burn a pile of rimfire practicing offhand and from
position. I used to shoot small bore targets at 50 and 100 yards with rimfire with windflags at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards.
You are going to need to learn to read mirage and wind.

Get a good spotting scope and learn how to read mirage.

Buy a good jacket, glove, a "GOOD" sling (not some piece of shit leather military M1907 sling which will stretch and
snap after a season). Learn to embrace the suck and the lack of circulation.

Get an index card and put a black dot on it and practice dry firing on it from position in your house with your stick.
Figure out if you are a fast or slow twitch shooter. Practice practice and practice some more.

Make sure you bring plenty of water and munchies to match. If you want to be old school bring a can of tuna and eat that.

Practice your breathing during the rapids......hell practice your breathing period. Learn how much time you have during
the slow fire phase to get a shot off before your vision starts to fade due to lack of oxygen to your eyes. Stare at green...learn
why.

Get a good log book and use it. And figure out when you should take the time to log shots and when the conditions are
such that you forget the damn log book and break the next shot as soon as the target is back up at 600 yards.

Most of all........remember its a journey with no end.....

I saw a guy get some leg points with one, so I mean yeah, it's possible.

And I saw a whole lot more of guys that were already distinguished and high masters that have M1As in the safe shoot ARs on the line.

Here's a pic I snapped of the shooter next to me
at the 2006 Maine State Service Rifle Championship...

Muh Tree Gun Broke!
Time for a Big Red from Fred!!

Yes....there is such a thing as too much sling tension....

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