Quoted: Quoted: Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves. BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone. If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us. Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism.

Prior to 9-11-01  Hezbollah had killed more Americans than any other terrorist group.

The 241 Marines in Beirut sent there as Peacekeepers, Col. Higgins, Marine-UN Observer, Robert Steatham, Navy diver etc. etc.

 It's one thing to be a cheerleader for Jihad but don't try to mislead us. They won't stop at Israel . Isarel is just the canary in the mineshaft.

 Do you really believe if very jew were killed in Israel , It would stop there ?

Quoted: Quoted: Finally, we have the Plucky Little Israel thing that appears to be a holdover from the WWII holocaust situation where the evil Nazis threw six million Jews into the gas chambers and crematoria, and therefore the US should support Israel. First of all Israel is not a hold-over from WWII.  Israel has been there for over 4000+ years.  They just kept getting conquered and split up.  The Palistinians are the ones who don't belong there.  They were relocated from other arab countries because they are not true arabs. Secondly, we have NO ally in the world that is more loyal to us than Israel.  NONE. If you do not protect your best ally, then who else should trust you?   The problem here is your mentality.  If you are in it for yourself, then who should be in it for you?  Selfish people get nothing in the end. Sorry, but by the tone of your question, I wonder who could count on you when SHTF.  Do you make your friends pay to hang around you?

Run that one past me again?

How many Israeli troops are fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanstan alongside US troops, unlike Britain and Austraila who together have lost hundreds KIA to date?

When was the last time either Britain and Austrailia sold the best US military technology to the Chinese, and don't say that ain't so that Israel does it, the DoD says it is so.

ANdy

Quoted: Tsk! Tsk! You really should read more For a people that were being 'murdered wholesale' their numbers seemed to be increasing rapidly until WWII… EUROPEAN JEWISH POPULATIONS Beginning in the eighteenth century, the proportion of Jews living in Europe grew steadily.  By the end of the eighteenth century, there were 2.5 million Jews in the world, of whom a million lived in North Africa and the Middle East (including Turkey), while another 1.5 million lived in Europe.  Of the European Jews, one million resided in Russia, Poland and Galicia, while the rest lived in Central and Western Europe. <snip?

For Gods sake...

Got yourself…

Lets see.

2.5 million – 1 million = 1.5 million… a majority in Europe like I said.

Are you serious going the argue that Jews were not murdered wholesale in Europe.

No you must be right… the were no expulsions, no bans of Jews… no Jew ghettos… no pogroms… Europe was a virtual paradise for Jews. Thank you father Gibson.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: STOP IT! STOP IT I SAY RIGHT NOW!!!!! How dare you point out the thruth! Did not GWB Himself say Israel was fighting Americas enemies? Of course, the little 'problem' with his argument is that Jews and Muslims have been duking it out since long before America was even discovered is just one of those embarrasing little facts he likes to gloss over… ANdy What are you?  Some sort of anti-semtic nazi islamofascist sympathiser?? AFRCOM's finest evangelical christian fundamentalist redneck europhobic minds have annointed me so… ANdy There are only a few evangelical Christian fundamentalists here, and they aren't Europhobic.   I think you have been maligned by people who do not grasp the situation, and only "know" what is on TV or what they were told in College (if that). Part of America's pride in supporting our troops crosses over into supporting them not to have to battle yet another country.  Since Syria/Iran have declared America as public enemy #1, and the Israelies are willing to fight them, we support them.  I think.

I'm shocked!

Are you seriously telling me that FOX NEWS is not the absolute oracle of truth?!!

And in deference to your good self I will qualify my statement to…

AFRCOM's finest wannabee evangelical christian fundamentalist redneck europhobic minds

That should cover it!

ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: Tsk! Tsk! You really should read more For a people that were being 'murdered wholesale' their numbers seemed to be increasing rapidly until WWII… EUROPEAN JEWISH POPULATIONS Beginning in the eighteenth century, the proportion of Jews living in Europe grew steadily.  By the end of the eighteenth century, there were 2.5 million Jews in the world, of whom a million lived in North Africa and the Middle East (including Turkey), while another 1.5 million lived in Europe.  Of the European Jews, one million resided in Russia, Poland and Galicia, while the rest lived in Central and Western Europe. <snip? For Gods sake... Got yourself… Lets see. 2.5 million – 1 million = 1.5 million… a majority in Europe like I said. Are you serious going the argue that Jews were not murdered wholesale in Europe. No you must be right… the were no expulsions, no bans of Jews… no Jew ghettos… no pogroms… Europe was a virtual paradise for Jews. Thank you father Gibson.

Tsk! Tsk!

There ya go again!  Selective reading again…

You said that… "The majority of Jews spent most of the last couple thousand years in Europe being murdered wholesale."

Well as the overall world population of Jews only became a majority in Europe during 18th century, QED, for the previous 1,100 years there would have been a majority of Jews somewhere else, and that somewhere else was Islamic Spain, North Africa and the Middle East…


And if there were being 'murdered wholesale' how was the population growing so rapidly? 300% in a period of 100 years?

In the nineteenth century, the European Jewish population had a constant growth in absolute numbers and percentages until 1880, when the percentage of Jews living in Europe reached its peak, then fell. There were then about 7,750,000 Jews in the world: 6,858,000 (88.5 percent) lived in Europe, 620,000 (8 percent) in Asia and Africa, and 250,000 in North and South America, and Australia. The absolute number of Jews in Europe continued to rise (particularly in Eastern Europe) even after 1880 (due to high birth rate and good health practices), yielding about 9.5 million Jews on that continent by 1938. However, they then constituted only 57 percent of world Jewry (16.6 million) because in the interim, new Jewish communities had grown up overseas, spurred by the 1880-1914 massive exodus from Europe.

ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Finally, we have the Plucky Little Israel thing that appears to be a holdover from the WWII holocaust situation where the evil Nazis threw six million Jews into the gas chambers and crematoria, and therefore the US should support Israel. First of all Israel is not a hold-over from WWII.  Israel has been there for over 4000+ years.  They just kept getting conquered and split up.  The Palistinians are the ones who don't belong there.  They were relocated from other arab countries because they are not true arabs. Secondly, we have NO ally in the world that is more loyal to us than Israel.  NONE. If you do not protect your best ally, then who else should trust you?   The problem here is your mentality.  If you are in it for yourself, then who should be in it for you?  Selfish people get nothing in the end. Sorry, but by the tone of your question, I wonder who could count on you when SHTF.  Do you make your friends pay to hang around you? Run that one past me again? How many Israeli troops are fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanstan alongside US troops, unlike Britain and Austraila who together have lost hundreds KIA to date? When was the last time either Britain and Austrailia sold the best US military technology to the Chinese, and don't say that ain't so that Israel does it, the DoD says it is so. ANdy

Tsk tsk, Andy! He means other than that stuff, of course!

Even though Vito has proven himself to be a world class asshat provocateur with all his posts trying to inflame us "europhobic, evangalical, redneck, etc" Americans, it is a fact that our truest and closest allies are Canada, UK, and Australia.

Vito, is there anything the US is doing right in the world?  It wouldn't kill you to try and not bash us in every post... would it?  Anything you like about what we are doing or what we have done recently as far as anything goes?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tsk! Tsk! You really should read more For a people that were being 'murdered wholesale' their numbers seemed to be increasing rapidly until WWII… EUROPEAN JEWISH POPULATIONS Beginning in the eighteenth century, the proportion of Jews living in Europe grew steadily.  By the end of the eighteenth century, there were 2.5 million Jews in the world, of whom a million lived in North Africa and the Middle East (including Turkey), while another 1.5 million lived in Europe.  Of the European Jews, one million resided in Russia, Poland and Galicia, while the rest lived in Central and Western Europe. <snip? For Gods sake... Got yourself… Lets see. 2.5 million – 1 million = 1.5 million… a majority in Europe like I said. Are you serious going the argue that Jews were not murdered wholesale in Europe. No you must be right… the were no expulsions, no bans of Jews… no Jew ghettos… no pogroms… Europe was a virtual paradise for Jews. Thank you father Gibson. Tsk! Tsk! There ya go again!  Selective reading again… You said that… "The majority of Jews spent most of the last couple thousand years in Europe being murdered wholesale." Well as the overall world population of Jews only became a majority in Europe during 18th century, QED, for the previous 1,100 years there would have been a majority of Jews somewhere else, and that somewhere else was Islamic Spain, North Africa and the Middle East… And if there were being 'murdered wholesale' how was the population growing so rapidly? 300% in a period of 100 years? ANdy

Keep digging...

Historical ignorance of cataclysmic proportions…

Jews were a majority in Europe before the 18th century unless Eastern Europe is not part of Europe.

The majority of Jews were in Eastern Europe (Poland, Baltic, ect..) before the 18th century because they had been exiled/banned from much of Western Europe.

Wholesale slaughter in Eastern Europe caused a huge scale migration in to Western Europe.

A little actual historical knowledge and less cut and paste might be helpful is stopping you from looking quite as ignorant as you appear to be.

Quoted: Am I missing anything?  Are these the reasons that the US supports Israel militarily and economically?  Is there anything else?

You forgot the most important reason of all: Jewish voters.

President Truman once explained why he was so eager to support the creation of the state of Israel despite his worries that it would lead to armed conflict between Arabs and Jews by pointing out that he has to answer to hundreds of thousands of Jewish and Zionist voters but not to hundreds of thousands of Arab voters.

Quoted: I just can't figure out for sure why US support for Israel is in MY PERSONAL BEST INTEREST.

Because if they can't be there, they'd come here?

After WWII, nobody was seriously looking to host millions of penniless, displaced Europeans.

There were lots of Jews in Palistine and they had a historical link to the territory.

I suspect that Western Countries expected to send them off and not have to worry about it, anymore.

Sometimes the rot of PC is quite amazing to behold.  The answer to the question is simple.  If you had to draw a map of western civilization it would include the United States, Canada, Europe, Russia, Austrailia, New Zealand, and Israel, and not much else.  Israel is part of our civilization.  Their society is, for all essential purposes, organized like our own.  They want, and enjoy, many of the same freedoms that I hold dear.  The motivations of the average Israeli would be, in all essential matters, the same as the average Brit, Frenchman, or Texan.  If I had to live in that society, I would feel much more at home than in someplace like Zimbabwe, or China, or India.  As such, I feel a great deal of sympathy - even kinship - to that little outpost of our civilization in a region otherwise populated by our enemies.

Now, I think that many who oppose Israel, like Vito, do so from a misguided machtpolitik view of the universe.  The trouble is that machtpolitik, despite its own claims of universality, is that it is rooted in a western concept of politics.  Machtpolitik largely depends upon the idea of nation-states being largely unified, independent, self-interested rational actors.  These assumptions may make quite a bit of sense when discussing the Anglo-French rivalry of the ninteenth century, but they tend to fall apart a bit when discussing other cultures, and especially Islam.  

Unlike ninteenth century Europe, a Muslim does not view himself as a Saudi Arabian, or a Syrian, or an Iraqi.  He views himself as a Muslim first, with his nation only being a semi-legitimate source of authority which is to be tolerated until such time as a successor for the Caliph can be found.  Moreover, just as we tend to think of Islam as being as divided as we are, they tend to view us in a more unified sense, as Jewish and Christian infidels from the west.  So when Israel does poorly in a war, or Russia is driven from Afghanistan, or Spain surrenders, these are not just viewed as victories over particular states, but over the Really Great Satan - western civilization itself.  Each of these disasters makes all of our lives more dangerous, because despite whatever protest we want to make, we are part of western civilization and the its victories and defeats alike will reflect upon us.  

So while it may make perfect sense to talk about how, from a machtpolitik standpoint Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are our great and strong allies, and are more important than a small country of 10 million like Israel, let us not forget that we are in a struggle of civilizations.  Thus, despite the fact that the State Department may list Saudi Arabia and Pakistan as great allies of the west, it was largely Saudi's who killed our kinsman on 911, and it was Pakistani's who created the Taliban, and whose immigrants in England were behind the most recent airline plot - not Jews from Israel.  Thus, I will always root for Israel to win and to do anything in my power to make sure that happens, because the more they win, the more the islamists will feel defeated.  Make no mistake that if the muslims were to do away that "shitty little country" (according to the French Ambassador) it would not resolve any grievances against the west, but would simply be viewed along with the fall of Constantinople as a great muslim conquest against the infidel, and would lead to further aggression from a newly emboldened enemy.

In light of the above.  Go IDF.  Godspeed and happy hunting.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves. BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone. If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us. Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism. Prior to 9-11-01  Hezbollah had killed more Americans than any other terrorist group. The 241 Marines in Beirut sent there as Peacekeepers, Col. Higgins, Marine-UN Observer, Robert Steatham, Navy diver etc. etc.  It's one thing to be a cheerleader for Jihad but don't try to mislead us. They won't stop at Israel . Isarel is just the canary in the mineshaft.  Do you really believe if very jew were killed in Israel , It would stop there ?

The US Marines entered into the Lebanese civil war in 1982... into a conflict they had no business being involved in.... and therefore became legitimate combatants. Hezbollah didn't target US soldiers prior to their entering their territory... nor have they since we left their territory.

And your bitchass wouldn't be calling me a cheerleader for Jihad if you were sitting behind the safety of your computer.

I wasn't misleading anyone... I have no need to... nor a agenda to do so. Only a coward would question someone's patriotism without giving that person the chance to knock the shit out of them for it.

Quoted: Quoted: Bullshit! Russia, Thailand, Philippines, etc. all have problems with Islamic terrorists because of Israel? The terrorist attacks in those countries are wars for independence. Chechnya is a federal subject of Russia, and has been fighting for independance from Russia for years. Thailand annexed Satun, Songkhla, Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat in 1902, a region with an 85 percent Muslim population. There have been attacks against the government of Thailand in an ongoing war since the 1960s The Phillipines declared independance from the US in 1946, but the large Muslim population didn't have representation in the new government. This led to a civil war between the unrepresented Muslim minority and the Christian majority. All of these are secular, political wars, not a matter of Muslims attacking people for being Christian. Nearly all of Europe doesn't support Israel and the ones that don't even support the US still have problems! Which countries are you refering to?

Dude, you got to get a clue fucking seriously. I can see how you've managed to justify every single Islamic attack on the world as some kind of "nationalistic" struggle. That is for the most part 1000% bullshit. They have been expanding and attacking infidel countries since 700 AD. The only countries without problems are countries that have "buffers" like another country or an ocean between them and Islam, Like Argentina or Japan, but all other countires that have a border with Islam or even a small population of Muslims have problems OR are so repressive (china) that they have no problems but is that really worth it?? You like all Jew-baiters seems to think that Muslims are the eternal victim who always has a grevience from some bullshit wrong doing, thats the story that the Muslim world pedals and some fools belive.
I got a whole fucking list of conquest and genocide carried out by Muslims for no other reason than to make their society "pure" from the Unclean "infidels".

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tsk! Tsk! You really should read more For a people that were being 'murdered wholesale' their numbers seemed to be increasing rapidly until WWII… EUROPEAN JEWISH POPULATIONS Beginning in the eighteenth century, the proportion of Jews living in Europe grew steadily.  By the end of the eighteenth century, there were 2.5 million Jews in the world, of whom a million lived in North Africa and the Middle East (including Turkey), while another 1.5 million lived in Europe.  Of the European Jews, one million resided in Russia, Poland and Galicia, while the rest lived in Central and Western Europe. <snip? For Gods sake... Got yourself… Lets see. 2.5 million – 1 million = 1.5 million… a majority in Europe like I said. Are you serious going the argue that Jews were not murdered wholesale in Europe. No you must be right… the were no expulsions, no bans of Jews… no Jew ghettos… no pogroms… Europe was a virtual paradise for Jews. Thank you father Gibson. Tsk! Tsk! There ya go again!  Selective reading again… You said that… "The majority of Jews spent most of the last couple thousand years in Europe being murdered wholesale." Well as the overall world population of Jews only became a majority in Europe during 18th century, QED, for the previous 1,100 years there would have been a majority of Jews somewhere else, and that somewhere else was Islamic Spain, North Africa and the Middle East… And if there were being 'murdered wholesale' how was the population growing so rapidly? 300% in a period of 100 years? ANdy Keep digging... Historical ignorance of cataclysmic proportions… Jews were a majority in Europe before the 18th century unless Eastern Europe is not part of Europe. The majority of Jews were in Eastern Europe (Poland, Baltic, ect..) before the 18th century because they had be exiled/banned from much of Western Europe. Wholesale slaughter in Eastern Europe caused a huge scale migration in to Western Europe. A little actual historical knowledge and less cut and paste might be helpful is stopping you from looking quite as ignorant as you appear to be.

Come'on Andy, You really need to do some reading on pogoms through the centuries in Europe instead of playing a game with words and numbers.  I mean, a 100,000 Jews killed in the Ukraine in 1918-19 I guess isn't much to you but I would call it wholesale murder.
The story of European Jews for the past 1,000 years is one of trying to comply with State leaders as a means of avoiding either being forced to leave their country or being murdered.

I guess I should add to the topic itself is the fact that Isreal enjoys political backing not only from the Jewish community but I would imagine most Americans. This puts pressure on politicians to ensure that we support Isreal if they want to be re-elected.  I don't think this is bad. France used to heavily support Isreal until DeGaul came into power and now they have a huge Muslim population that will no doubt cause them much grief in the future.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves. BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone. If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us. Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism. Prior to 9-11-01  Hezbollah had killed more Americans than any other terrorist group. The 241 Marines in Beirut sent there as Peacekeepers, Col. Higgins, Marine-UN Observer, Robert Steatham, Navy diver etc. etc.  It's one thing to be a cheerleader for Jihad but don't try to mislead us. They won't stop at Israel . Isarel is just the canary in the mineshaft.  Do you really believe if very jew were killed in Israel , It would stop there ? The US Marines entered into the Lebanese civil war in 1982... into a conflict they had no business being involved in.... and therefore became legitimate combatants. Hezbollah didn't target US soldiers prior to their entering their territory... nor have they since we left their territory. And your bitchass wouldn't be calling me a cheerleader for Jihad if you were sitting behind the safety of your computer. I wasn't misleading anyone... I have no need to... nor a agenda to do so. Only a coward would question someone's patriotism without giving that person the chance to knock the shit out of them for it.

We all know from your posts that your an apologist from Islam and terrorists! You just tried to justify the killing of our marines!! Oh i see, they were "ligitimate combatants" then you try to say how noble they were for not attacking maries AFTER they left Lebanon, Wow, what are you doing here? You should get a job working for the Hezbollah PR machine, Maybe add some smoke to a picture of Beirut with photoshop.
MAybe you could be the next John walker Lindh? Repeat after me this mantra- "it's all the Jews and White mans fault, The Muslims are perpetual victims, Some peoples terrorists are other peoples freedom fighters"

Quoted:

Here on ARFCOM you are either for Israel unquestioningly 100% or you're an anti-semitic nazi islamofascist sympathiser… ANdy

Wonder why that is?

No, not why we think that way.

But why do you think that way?

Londonistan Calling....

Eric The(GeorgeSantayanaGotItRight)Hun

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves. BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone. If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us. Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism. Prior to 9-11-01  Hezbollah had killed more Americans than any other terrorist group. The 241 Marines in Beirut sent there as Peacekeepers, Col. Higgins, Marine-UN Observer, Robert Steatham, Navy diver etc. etc.  It's one thing to be a cheerleader for Jihad but don't try to mislead us. They won't stop at Israel . Isarel is just the canary in the mineshaft.  Do you really believe if very jew were killed in Israel , It would stop there ? The US Marines entered into the Lebanese civil war in 1982... into a conflict they had no business being involved in.... and therefore became legitimate combatants. Hezbollah didn't target US soldiers prior to their entering their territory... nor have they since we left their territory. And your bitchass wouldn't be calling me a cheerleader for Jihad if you were sitting behind the safety of your computer. I wasn't misleading anyone... I have no need to... nor a agenda to do so. Only a coward would question someone's patriotism without giving that person the chance to knock the shit out of them for it. We all know from your posts that your an apologist from Islam and terrorists! You just tried to justify the killing of our marines!! Oh i see, they were "ligitimate combatants" then you try to say how noble they were for not attacking maries AFTER they left Lebanon, Wow, what are you doing here? You should get a job working for the Hezbollah PR machine, Maybe add some smoke to a picture of Beirut with photoshop. MAybe you could be the next John walker Lindh? Repeat after me this mantra- "it's all the Jews and White mans fault, The Muslims are perpetual victims, Some peoples terrorists are other peoples freedom fighters"

I have never said Hezbollah were not deserving of an ass-kicking.

But don't pretend we didn't fuck up by sending in our marines into a combat zone they had no place being. We entered them into a conflict that had nothing to do with us... and we paid the price for it. It's what happens when you send troops into a conflict with no specific mission other than "keeping the peace".

We are not the world's fucking police force. Our military is made to blow shit up not keep the peace. We should not have sent our marines there making them targets.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves. BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone. If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us. Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism. Prior to 9-11-01  Hezbollah had killed more Americans than any other terrorist group. The 241 Marines in Beirut sent there as Peacekeepers, Col. Higgins, Marine-UN Observer, Robert Steatham, Navy diver etc. etc.  It's one thing to be a cheerleader for Jihad but don't try to mislead us. They won't stop at Israel . Isarel is just the canary in the mineshaft.  Do you really believe if very jew were killed in Israel , It would stop there ? The US Marines entered into the Lebanese civil war in 1982... into a conflict they had no business being involved in.... and therefore became legitimate combatants. Hezbollah didn't target US soldiers prior to their entering their territory... nor have they since we left their territory. And your bitchass wouldn't be calling me a cheerleader for Jihad if you were sitting behind the safety of your computer. I wasn't misleading anyone... I have no need to... nor a agenda to do so. Only a coward would question someone's patriotism without giving that person the chance to knock the shit out of them for it. We all know from your posts that your an apologist from Islam and terrorists! You just tried to justify the killing of our marines!! Oh i see, they were "ligitimate combatants" then you try to say how noble they were for not attacking maries AFTER they left Lebanon, Wow, what are you doing here? You should get a job working for the Hezbollah PR machine, Maybe add some smoke to a picture of Beirut with photoshop. MAybe you could be the next John walker Lindh? Repeat after me this mantra- "it's all the Jews and White mans fault, The Muslims are perpetual victims, Some peoples terrorists are other peoples freedom fighters"

P.S. You're an asshat. Alls you do is level person attacks toward me... you don't make any valid arguments. You just provide ad homimen attacks and pass that off as if you made a point.

ETA: You're a fucking bold-faced lier. Never have I used the words "noble" and "Hezbollah" in the same sentence you asshat!!!

The fact of the matter is... after we left lebanon... Hezbollah never attacked us again. I didn't say that to portray it as noble... I said it as`a statement of fact that shows once we left the combat zone... hezbollah's war with us was over. They then shifted their attention back to Israel... who their fight was originally with before we got involved.  

Quoted: The US Marines entered into the Lebanese civil war in 1982... into a conflict they had no business being involved in.... and therefore became legitimate combatants. Hezbollah didn't target US soldiers prior to their entering their territory... nor have they since we left their territory. Nice justification for the murder of your countrymen who were sent there on a peace mission , You forgot USMC Col Higgins on a mission from the U.N. , did he have it coming too ?. Naah, no problem with YOUR patriotism. And your bitchass wouldn't be calling me a cheerleader for Jihad if you were sitting behind the safety of your computer. You haven't met me. You probably wouldn't say that if you did. I wasn't misleading anyone... I have no need to... nor a agenda to do so. Only a coward would question someone's patriotism without giving that person the chance to knock the shit out of them for it. I grew up and live in liberal Ann Arbor Michigan. I argue with liberals all the time and not ONE of them has taken the opportunity to try to knock the shit out of me as you put it. I suspect you wouldn't be any different.

Quoted: Quoted: The US Marines entered into the Lebanese civil war in 1982... into a conflict they had no business being involved in.... and therefore became legitimate combatants. Hezbollah didn't target US soldiers prior to their entering their territory... nor have they since we left their territory. Nice justification for the murder of your countrymen who were sent there on a peace mission , You forgot USMC Col Higgins on a mission from the U.N. , did he have it coming too ?. Naah, no problem with YOUR patriotism. No... there's no problem with my patriotism. I'm looking at the situation objectively. I love my country but I will call the facts as I see them... whether the truth hurts or not. If you wish to state your case and explain the facts in a different manner... perhaps you can enlighten me and change my opinion. I'm open to hearing your thoughts on the subject. And your bitchass wouldn't be calling me a cheerleader for Jihad if you were sitting behind the safety of your computer. You haven't met me. You probably wouldn't say that if you did. I doubt it. I'd say a lot to a lot of people regardless if it was the smart thing to do or not. I've yet to suffer any adverse consequences from doing so. I can hold my own. I wasn't misleading anyone... I have no need to... nor a agenda to do so. Only a coward would question someone's patriotism without giving that person the chance to knock the shit out of them for it. I grew up and live in liberal Ann Arbor Michigan. I argue with liberals all the time and not ONE of them has taken the opportunity to try to knock the shit out of me as you put it. I suspect you wouldn't be any different. I suspect that you suspect a lot of things.... yet most of them seem to be oversimplifications of reality.  Besides, whoever said I was a liberal. ETA: When you are arguing wih these liberals... how often is it that you are behind the safety of your computer???

Glockguy40 wrtites;

No... there's no problem with my patriotism. I'm looking at the situation objectively. I love my country but I will call the facts as I see them... whether the truth hurts or not. If you wish to state your case and explain the facts in a different manner... perhaps you can enlighten me and change my opinion. I'm open to hearing your thoughts on the subject.
_________________________________________________________________________________

What's the point ? You think that Hezbollah is justified in it's attacks against our people and you have avoided answering about the torture and murder of Col. Higgins.

 You have resorted to personal attacks and childish name calling ("bitchass?") and have made meaningless blustery physical threats to knock the shit out of me. (From behind the safety of YOUR keyboard I might add. )
I don't respect you or your reasoning skills. You won't get another minute of my time.

Quoted: Glockguy40 wrtites; No... there's no problem with my patriotism. I'm looking at the situation objectively. I love my country but I will call the facts as I see them... whether the truth hurts or not. If you wish to state your case and explain the facts in a different manner... perhaps you can enlighten me and change my opinion. I'm open to hearing your thoughts on the subject. _________________________________________________________________________________ What's the point ? You think that Hezbollah is justified in it's attacks against our people and you have avoided answering about the torture and murder of Col. Higgins.  You have resorted to personal attacks and childish name calling ("bitchass?") and have made meaningless blustery physical threats to knock the shit out of me. (From behind the safety of YOUR keyboard I might add. ) I don't respect you or your reasoning skills. You won't get another minute of my time.

LOL. That's fine. I don't respect you either. You don't have the mental capacity to debate with me anyway.

See post.