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Posted: 12/13/2021 4:44:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Watching We Were Soldiers and got to thinking... -20 round M16 mags when they were in an environment that called for 30s or 40s -Awful magazine pouches so guys would often resort to canteen pouches or claymore bags -A 7 lb flak vest that doesn't stop any bullets -Slings that rattle where they attach at the rear swivel, plus way too short and attaching only at the bottom -Just giving guys green uniforms but not actual patterned camo for the most part -Crappy web gear that you can't carry enough water on because you have the belt and that's it -Slow flap holsters for pistols -Being four years late to issue synthetic stocks for M14s I wouldn't use a Hollywood movie as testimony to what the soldiers there were actually using. |
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Posted: 12/13/2021 4:45:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, my pops had some stories. Sounds like it sucked. Like, idk if that’s my kind of suck, sucked. Happy for the desert and no leaches and fewer snakes, and less rain. But he got beer occasionally, so… A wash? I didn't serve in Vietnam but my E6+ were almost all Vietnam vets. My dad did two tours and left as a Major. Some of the stories were... interesting. A lot different from 'our' wars... |
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Posted: 12/13/2021 5:10:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two quarts of water is JACK SQUAT Right, but that's not counting 2-4 more on the rucksack, or the fact that local water sources exist. If it's a desert environment than obviously the needs change. |
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Posted: 12/13/2021 5:46:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't use a Hollywood movie as testimony to what the soldiers there were actually using. |
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Posted: 12/13/2021 6:20:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 30-round mags didn't show up until late in the war (i.e. after 1970), and even then it was mainly the high-speed guys that got them. Vast majority of troops in Vietnam used 20-rounders for most of the war. (I've seen a few pics of 30-rounders pre-1970, but they are rare.) ALICE gear arrived after the war. The guys in Vietnam used M1956 (canvas) pouches, and later M1967 (nylon) pouches. Army had flak vests (M1952A and M69), they just didn't wear them as much as the Marines (M1955). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well. About all that. 20:rounds were standard from the M14 and soon replaced by the 30rounders. 40s are unwieldy and unreliable. The ALICE pouches work fine. They keep mags clean in the mud or dusted conditions. A web belt carries two quarts of water and 180 rounds of ammo. Additional attached to your pack which can be dropped in a fire fight. Duct tape quiets web gear. And who uses slings anyway. Flak vest. Only the Jar Heads wore them. I'm not sure. The Army didn't. The Nam vets will tell you the green jungles were the best color. Certainly better than the replacement BDU and who knows about the grab bag of colors since then. Pistols are for REMFs. Who cares about them. M14s are ancient history. 30-round mags didn't show up until late in the war (i.e. after 1970), and even then it was mainly the high-speed guys that got them. Vast majority of troops in Vietnam used 20-rounders for most of the war. (I've seen a few pics of 30-rounders pre-1970, but they are rare.) ALICE gear arrived after the war. The guys in Vietnam used M1956 (canvas) pouches, and later M1967 (nylon) pouches. Army had flak vests (M1952A and M69), they just didn't wear them as much as the Marines (M1955). The ALICE concept started around Korea, the M1952 design, with the first being the M1956 era you mention, to nylon 1961 rucksack, 1962 LCE, to let’s make more nylon, to LINCLOE stuff being issued in the mid 1960s, the 1967 nylon H-harness, to I believe full planned adoption in 73 to final mods/changes in 77 to a final belt change from hook to plastic. With some minor material differences, it’s amazing how if you looked at Ranger Bn Infantrymen, say in 1987, compared to 1967 you say M1911A1s in the same holsters, M16A1s, M60s, with essentially the same gear and boots, knives, compasses, uniform, etc. |
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Posted: 12/13/2021 6:33:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two quarts of water is JACK SQUAT Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I like the 20-rounders- easier to go prone, less apt to get snagged on straps, limbs, etc. All my reloads are 30s, and I could see some situations where a 40 as a contact mag would be nice. In heat and humidity the LBE outperforms chest rigs and vests *when not wearing armor* if circumstances dictate armor than no reason not to have a chest rig IMO. And IDK where the notion of "you can't carry enough on a belt" came from... my LBE hauls 8 .308 mags or a dozen AR mags, plus 2 quarts of water, compass, 2 pistol mags, knife, and a buttpack. And that’s why in VN and decades later with similar gear guys had two 1-Q canteens on their belt, a 2qt on the side of their ruck, another 2qt inside, and iodine tabs. Throwing a drive on rag over the mouth of your canteen to filter out particles and throwing in iodine tabs to refill it from local water sources was the norm. |
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Posted: 12/14/2021 8:07:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And "them boys" at Belleau Wood would have felt that those boys on Guadalcanal had it easy. And "them boys" at The Battle of the Wilderness would have felt that those at Belleau Wood had it easy. And so on.... Which is the point of he's comparing 60/70s era infantry equipment to equipment fielded in the 90s and 2000s |
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Posted: 12/14/2021 8:51:44 PM EDT
[#8]
It's amazing how people simp for poor gear.
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