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Posted: 5/27/2021 8:56:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: China will be selling ICE to the rest of the world while the West struggles to get by with EV. The narrow minded cannot see the problems because they are enjoying their subsidized niche vehicle. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 8:59:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue is that a a large portion of people in this country do not have a way to charge an electric vehicle at home. Let alone 2 vehicle households. Most stage 2 chargers require 50amp at 220v but this is increasing more and more, the new Ford lightning charger is 80 amps. Putting a 100 amp additional load on most houses in this country are going to be an issue. At minimum they will need a new panel. But everything back to the power source can be an issue. The even bigger issue is urban houses that do not have drive ways. On street parking and electric vehicle charging do not work. Good luck charging your car when the closest s place you can find to park is 100 yards away from your house. The alternative would be companies installing charging stations in employee parking lots. This will turn into having to pay your employer to be able to get to work. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If Hyundai already builds hydrogen/EV charging stations across the world The issue is that a a large portion of people in this country do not have a way to charge an electric vehicle at home. Let alone 2 vehicle households. Most stage 2 chargers require 50amp at 220v but this is increasing more and more, the new Ford lightning charger is 80 amps. Putting a 100 amp additional load on most houses in this country are going to be an issue. At minimum they will need a new panel. But everything back to the power source can be an issue. The even bigger issue is urban houses that do not have drive ways. On street parking and electric vehicle charging do not work. Good luck charging your car when the closest s place you can find to park is 100 yards away from your house. The alternative would be companies installing charging stations in employee parking lots. This will turn into having to pay your employer to be able to get to work. Excellent point! Also, dorms and apartment complexes will be almost completely reliant on public transport. Forget that. I'll go back to horse before I go electric or hydrogen. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:04:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Co2 was for heat treatment process, hydrogen burned off as a waste gas, endothermic, was pretty cool prototype I really think fuel cells are dead on this world. Unless you have nuclear power to make hydrogen from water, I don't see what it solves. If you have to make hydrogen from hydrocarbons, you are still probably making CO2 somewhere. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:10:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not the batteries, it's the production of energy. https://rumble.com/vhjadl-universal-electric-car-myth-debunked-one-smoldering-tweet-follows-the-math.html Some guy did the math based on how many miles Americans drive and the goal to have all cars be electric by 2035. He determined we need to build and bring online a one Gigawatt power plant EVERY THREE WEEKS. It's a good thing we are not all going to ditch our gassers all on the same day all at the same time. I really doubt these companies claiming they're going to only produce EVs by 2030 will actually hit that goal. We DO need a lot more power generation. That point is true, but the demand isn't suddenly going to happen one day, it's going to build up. As long as the greenies are resistant to nuclear power, then it could be setting up to be a bad situation. I want to see the Small Modular Reactor scheme work out. I'd like to see new reactor types that can burn up old fuel, then we can dispose of old fuel and get something out of it along the way. I'm fine with going fully electric, but we're gonna need a lot of power sources and a better distribution system. It's going to take a LOT more than the greenies are willing to do, I think. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:12:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LMAO !! They have these magical devices called gas cans. You can store gas in them. You can store a lot of gas in them. Unless your fancy Coal burning E car can drive from New Orleans to Houston or at least 500 miles nonstop with the AC on you are screwed. The infrastructure isn't set up anywhere in the United States for Coal burning E cars to evacuate a major city with a major storm bearing down on it. Period. That would be really stupid. And I was born there with a sister who lives there. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:14:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it made CO2 for a process where it is needed. I really think fuel cells are dead on this world. Unless you have nuclear power to make hydrogen from water, I don't see what it solves. If you have to make hydrogen from hydrocarbons, you are still probably making CO2 somewhere. Agree on the fuel cells, too expensive , it was pretty cool though to see the hydrogen flare on the machine, my bet on an actual system that would work is EV with an ultra efficient small all fuel turbine generator with a battery, I wonder why this is not being explored? |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:17:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn’t mind if this was free market choice. Problem is it is not. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:32:32 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When Hurricane Harvey approached Houston there was a massive exodus out of the city. There are gas stations at nearly every exit on our interstates and highways across our country. If everyone in Houston was now driving a coal burning E car and tried to evacuate the same way they would be up shits creek. No infrastructure to support an evacuation of that size with everyone in an E car. The various authorities made a correct call on Harvey and discouraged evacuation. The time we did have a massive evacuation was during Rita. It was a disaster because cars ran out of fuel without getting far since IC engines use lots of fuel while idling in traffic jams. Fuel stations ran out of fuel and if the hurricane had actually hit us, it would have been a disaster with people stranded in cars all over the place. That stupid mayor white kept encouraging people to leave from places unlikely to be in dangerlike Kingwood when all the fuel was gone and people from Galveston who would have been in danger actually needed to evacuate. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:43:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you! Roll Tide. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: gasoline is evil gives the unter-menchen too much power Diesel is the uber fuel. It can be made from cooking oil and will store quite a while with addition of a biocide. Of course, hydrogen is the ultimate fuel. We can make it from water via a fuel cell or electrolysis. Storage life? Forever. Hydrogen may be the 'ultimate' for clean burning, but it requires energy to create, provides less energy than gasoline, is difficult to store, is difficult to fuel safely, poses substantial hazards in accident resulting in a leak, and burns in open air without a visible flame. Fuel cells may offer a benefit, but the technology is immature for large scale production for vehicles. I used to work in a hydrogen liquification plant. We initially had rail cars to ship it to California, but this was discontinued due to have of the product being gone by the time it reached the customer. It’s molecules are so small it’s almost impossible to contain. It also requires an insane amount of electricity to produce. We had a visit from our number three and four corporate managers and neither one believed hydrogen would be a big fuel for vehicles in the next twenty or thirty years if ever (this was 2008). Thank you! Roll Tide. Roll Tide! |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:46:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not the batteries, it's the production of energy. https://rumble.com/vhjadl-universal-electric-car-myth-debunked-one-smoldering-tweet-follows-the-math.html Some guy did the math based on how many miles Americans drive and the goal to have all cars be electric by 2035. He determined we need to build and bring online a one Gigawatt power plant EVERY THREE WEEKS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Next you will say railroads will give up coal fired steam locomotives! That is just stupid Batteries will win when they are more cost effective https://rumble.com/vhjadl-universal-electric-car-myth-debunked-one-smoldering-tweet-follows-the-math.html Some guy did the math based on how many miles Americans drive and the goal to have all cars be electric by 2035. He determined we need to build and bring online a one Gigawatt power plant EVERY THREE WEEKS. So a 1.6% increase in US power generation per year? Doesn't sound that daunting. We did better than that throughout most of the 20th century. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:47:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And he had to scavenge parts... instead of going to autozone; then he had to reverse engineer the design. Something that your average grease monkey can do in an evening right? Where was that quote about a multimeter again... ? You are right. It's going to be incredibly difficult for grease monkey's on arfcom to find spark plugs, ignition coils, oil filters, crank case drain plugs, starters, timing chains, timing belts, cam phasors, air filters, fuel injectors, fuel pumps, fuel filters, head gaskets, turbos, water pumps, radiators and such for their Teslas. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:49:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the next big Katrina size hurricane hits the Gulf Coast and its 99 degrees outside; get ready to watch the interstates get blocked by thousands of electric cars with dead batteries and no way to recharge them as people try to flee the area. After the hurricane the electricity will be out and you cant just pull a spare battery out of your ass. They are coal burning E cars. Period Electric vehicles are far ahead of where I thought they would be at this point, but at this point they have to pretty much have the best possible scenario for them to work. I’ve been stuck in traffic for hours when New Orleans and Mobile was evacuating for Ivan and it’s not a situation I’d want to be in with an electric vehicle with today’s technology. If Tesla gets their model 3 down to Camry prices and a 300 mile range at 80+ mph with full AC going, I’ll absolutely get one for the drive to work, but an emergency situation I’d rather have dinosaurs swimming in my tank. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:52:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This reminds me of the old incandescent light bulb threads. Somewhere on arfcom, somebody has a hoard of thousands of 100 watt bulbs so their easy bake ovens still work in the year 2050. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:53:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So a 1.6% increase in US power generation per year? Doesn't sound that daunting. We did better than that throughout most of the 20th century. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Next you will say railroads will give up coal fired steam locomotives! That is just stupid Batteries will win when they are more cost effective https://rumble.com/vhjadl-universal-electric-car-myth-debunked-one-smoldering-tweet-follows-the-math.html Some guy did the math based on how many miles Americans drive and the goal to have all cars be electric by 2035. He determined we need to build and bring online a one Gigawatt power plant EVERY THREE WEEKS. So a 1.6% increase in US power generation per year? Doesn't sound that daunting. We did better than that throughout most of the 20th century. Right. Texas' peak power consumption on a hot summer day (I think 2019 timeframe) was something like 67GW or something. That means we already have that much capacity, at least. If you divide that into "one every three weeks" that's over 3 years to 'build'... but that's considering the national demand being put on only one state. I think building power generation is going to be THE biggest problem when it comes to potentially moving at least personal vehicles to electric, and it's probably going to become painfully obvious in about a decade or two. But it's not that insurmountable. 1GW isn't all that much at all on the whole scope of how much power this country generates anyway. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:54:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agree on the fuel cells, too expensive , it was pretty cool though to see the hydrogen flare on the machine, my bet on an actual system that would work is EV with an ultra efficient small all fuel turbine generator with a battery, I wonder why this is not being explored? Cost Qc required is nuts. The old Chrysler turbine engine was near 10k ... in 1960s money That's 83k today |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:56:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't find any news if LPG has been axed, Considering the current contracts, the special properties of and flexibility of LPG I think it will still be a thing for many decades to come. Environmentalists hate LPG, but it’s in such supply and good price point it would be foolish not to use it. Companies and politicians patronize and pay lip service to people that are clueless to reality, but the bottom line is profit and profitability. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:00:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gasoline is mostly a fuel of the Americas. American refineries are cracking things that aren't gasoline to make gasoline. In the rest of the world Diesel is dominant. So refineries would quit cracking down to gasoline meaning there is less produced in the first place. I think they can swing naturally existing gasoline to make diesel. It seams that depending on which way you go, you either produce hydrogen or need hydrogen. Need a chemical engineer from a refinery to provide insight. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As a refinery operator, I'm curious as to what will become of gasoline. Less of it can be refined, but it will still be produced. Maybe convert furnaces or run generators with it to produce electricity, but I'm sure oil refiners are anticipating this. So refineries would quit cracking down to gasoline meaning there is less produced in the first place. I think they can swing naturally existing gasoline to make diesel. It seams that depending on which way you go, you either produce hydrogen or need hydrogen. Need a chemical engineer from a refinery to provide insight. You can tweak your yields of gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, but only so much. All three will still be produced, just in different percentages. We have access to daily oil’s planning meetings where the markets are discussed and what blends of crude to use to maximize the most profitable. Temperatures and pressures can be altered in conjunction with crude slates. Oil is cracked down to bunker fuel, resid, and coke in complex refineries. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:01:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cost Qc required is nuts. The old Chrysler turbine engine was near 10k ... in 1960s money @Stutzmech That was a big turbine with power takeoff and gearing way to big and complicated, what I'm talking about is a small turbine( 30-40 hp) to drive a generator to supplement a normal ev truck, kinda like an APU on aircraft so when batt. runs out you can continue to drive, also can function as a portable generator for house or construction site |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:12:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Running your fridge and a tv requires a lot less solar than charging an EV. That's also the reason the new F150 can provide three days of power to a house. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:15:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember the bill congress had to pass to get the car to replace the horse because the horses were faster and more powerful than the ICE? Remember the bills to force the transition to telephone, because people would much rather learn morse code than hear the sound of other people's actual voices? Remember the bills and tax breaks for electricity because people would rather read by candlelight than a light bulb? You don't remember that, because no one has to force something that people actually WANT. I don't want the government doing any of those things and not one person has said so in this thread. The government has not forced anyone to buy the Teslas I see everyday on the road. People are buying them now. Some of those people are stupid and buing for stupid reasons, others are buying because they make sense. California has passed some forcing laws for 2035 which is unwise. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:19:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember all those times that BETTER technology replaced a second rate product? This is not one of those times. Current EV's are an inferior product. Current EV's are superior to ICE vehicles in most measures. Fill up time after reaching maximum range is vastly inferior. That would not be important to me, if I decided to buy one because I would use our other vehicle which would have an IC engine. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:20:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Next you will say railroads will give up coal fired steam locomotives! That is just stupid Batteries will win when they are more cost effective And you can recharge to 100% in five minutes. In the last 6 months I've driven to Houston and back from Florida twice, from Houston to Fredericksburg, TX and back and from Greely, CO to Florida. I can't imagine how painful that would have been even if charging stations were conveniently located wherever I needed as gas stations are. When I can have a 400 mile range on a full charge and then another 400 mile range after a 5 minute piss break, I will be on board. But sitting around for even an hour let alone overnight is a big no. And unless they have a charging stations at every Holiday Inn and Hilton along the Interstate that means I have to either start or end my day sitting at a charging Station, not a very appealing prospect. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:24:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are doing the same thing THEY ALL ARE. You do NOT have a choice anymore. By 2050 gas will be completely gone Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Buy a Ford. They are doing the same thing THEY ALL ARE. You do NOT have a choice anymore. By 2050 gas will be completely gone By 2050 I’ll be dead Have at it |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:28:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Just a few years ago in Chicago traffic ground to a halt during a snow storm and it never started moving again. And it stopped because the little bitch eco-cars the leftists are driving couldn't make it with 3 inches of snow on the roads. So traffic backed up for miles and miles and people were stranded in their cars.
Will an EV's heater be able to run all night to keep people from freezing to death in their cars, or will the expressways be full of human popsicles by the next morning? I don't think the EV backers have thought things through. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:29:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The amount that it would cost to build that infrastructure is way more than storing a few gallons of gas these days. You aren't plopping two panels on your roof to charge an EV unless you like sitting there for days. It's the same pipe dream as those asking why all the EV trucks don't come lined with solar panels. As of right now, and for at least the foreseeable future, storing gasoline is the cheapest and most foolproof disaster plan for needing reliable transportation. On the other hand, solar panels are at the point in most places where they are better at powering your home than a generator. Technically yes, if we get to the point where we are roving around in gangs mad max style being able to slowly generate electricity is easier than refining gas, but I prefer more realistic situations where a storm takes down power for a week. Will that change in the future? Probably. I think it will take a bit to get there though. Storing gasoline get's you nothing and is a total pain in the ass. It goes bad with age, filling gas tanks is a pain in the ass and filling your car with them sucks. If you drive 40 miles a day, you need 10 gallons a work week. If you can generate 15 kwh a day with solar panels you can recharge an EV that drives 40 miles a day and you can sustain that for years or long after your gas is all gone. If you must evacuate a distance longer than 2 or 3 hundred miles, then yes a diesel truck with a big tank and a bigger auxillary tank are the way to go. The obvious solution is true to arfcom doctrine. Get both. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:32:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are doing the same thing THEY ALL ARE. You do NOT have a choice anymore. By 2050 gas will be completely gone By 2050 I'll be dead, or at least not driving. But till then I can't see any 38' motorhomes in all electric going transcontinental. But at least you do have 220v at most campgrounds. And many have propane, so that could be an option. 
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:46:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Excellent point! Also, dorms and apartment complexes will be almost completely reliant on public transport. Forget that. I'll go back to horse before I go electric or hydrogen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If Hyundai already builds hydrogen/EV charging stations across the world The issue is that a a large portion of people in this country do not have a way to charge an electric vehicle at home. Let alone 2 vehicle households. Most stage 2 chargers require 50amp at 220v but this is increasing more and more, the new Ford lightning charger is 80 amps. Putting a 100 amp additional load on most houses in this country are going to be an issue. At minimum they will need a new panel. But everything back to the power source can be an issue. The even bigger issue is urban houses that do not have drive ways. On street parking and electric vehicle charging do not work. Good luck charging your car when the closest s place you can find to park is 100 yards away from your house. The alternative would be companies installing charging stations in employee parking lots. This will turn into having to pay your employer to be able to get to work. Excellent point! Also, dorms and apartment complexes will be almost completely reliant on public transport. Forget that. I'll go back to horse before I go electric or hydrogen. I've already got the horse but it would make it a two-day trip to get to the grocery store and back. 
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Posted: 5/27/2021 10:56:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very few... In fact a tiny minutia of people have the ability or the moral constitution that would enable them to afford to live like that. Intellectual honesty and critical thinking skills at this stage of this discussion. Such a solution is much more practical and useful than storing gasoline which quickly runs out and can't be easily replaced. Lots of people can afford to build enough electrical generation capacity to charge the average EV every day for the average commute. Intellectual honesty and critical thinking skills are completely ignored by people on this website who argue that gasoline is completely uncontrollable by the government or foreign entities while electricity is completely vulnerable. EV's have advantages and disadvantage same as IC engined vehicles. Not being able to be understand those characteristics or not being able to understand the implications of them due to short ranged one step thinking doesn't mean you have critical thinking skills. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:03:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agree on the fuel cells, too expensive , it was pretty cool though to see the hydrogen flare on the machine, my bet on an actual system that would work is EV with an ultra efficient small all fuel turbine generator with a battery, I wonder why this is not being explored? Turbines may be able to burn lots of different fuels, but turbines are not very efficient at all. Somehow this myth got popularized on GD because people don't understand the difference between a combined cycle plant using large stationary gas turbines and steam turbines together to extract heat versus a single cycle gas turbine in a vehicle. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:04:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue is that a a large portion of people in this country do not have a way to charge an electric vehicle at home. Let alone 2 vehicle households. Most stage 2 chargers require 50amp at 220v but this is increasing more and more, the new Ford lightning charger is 80 amps. Putting a 100 amp additional load on most houses in this country are going to be an issue. At minimum they will need a new panel. But everything back to the power source can be an issue. The even bigger issue is urban houses that do not have drive ways. On street parking and electric vehicle charging do not work. Good luck charging your car when the closest s place you can find to park is 100 yards away from your house. The alternative would be companies installing charging stations in employee parking lots. This will turn into having to pay your employer to be able to get to work. A neighbor has a Volt. The 120V circuit charger completes a charge overnight. What is wrong with that? If the 80 amp figure is correct, not only would I need a new subpanel but I might have to increase the underground wiring from the electrical panel by the large above ground junction box. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:14:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can tweak your yields of gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, but only so much. All three will still be produced, just in different percentages. We have access to daily oil's planning meetings where the markets are discussed and what blends of crude to use to maximize the most profitable. Temperatures and pressures can be altered in conjunction with crude slates. Oil is cracked down to bunker fuel, resid, and coke in complex refineries. Bunker fuel is a residual fuel oil. Residual fuel oils are left over after distillation and vacuum distillation. Cracking is a process of turning long chain hydrocarbons into shorter chain hydrocarbons. So long chains can be made into gasoline through cracking. The United States is turning hydrocarbons into gasoline because we use so much gasoline. Most other countries don't produce that much gasoline. So yes, we can turn things that aren't gasoline into gasoline and we can stop doing that and end up with far less gasoline. Not sure if you can turn gasoline into something heavier like diesel which is an important question. If not, gasoline can certainly be burned in internal or external combustion engines and would not be a waste product. The real issue is that changes to the engines that power the world are not a one step process and entire systems are affected. The result that uses the least energy, least cost, and least polluting overall should be sought. A pretty complex problem and a bunch of stupid technically illiterate politicians really aren't up to the job. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:15:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A neighbor has a Volt. The 120V circuit charger completes a charge overnight. What is wrong with that? If the 80 amp figure is correct, not only would I need a new subpanel but I might have to increase the underground wiring from the electrical panel by the large above ground junction box. I had a Volt for 4 years. A level 2 charger (240V) could charge it in 4 hours, which was actually nerfed. The Volt only used half of what it could have when connected to 240V. Off of 120V it would take about 8-10 hours... but that's only ~40 miles of range. That's enough to commute for a day for almost 80% of Americans. It's not enough to fully charge something like a Tesla from near flat.... but it's something. With an L2 charger hitting around 7kW, one could probably get 80-100 miles worth of charge overnight and wouldn't really need beefier wiring. Most people aren't going to drive the full range of an EV every single day and thus won't require large amounts of power every night. Just like most people don't drive a full tank of gas every day and have to stop and fill up every evening. It's much easier and quicker to just plug your car in every night. I figured it added all of 5 seconds to the time it took me to get out of my car and then into my house when I had my Volt. It's so convenient. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:16:52 PM EDT
[#33]
I genuinely love the fact that we rehash this argument in a new thread every 2-3 days.
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:18:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was a big turbine with power takeoff and gearing way to big and complicated, what I'm talking about is a small turbine( 30-40 hp) to drive a generator to supplement a normal ev truck, kinda like an APU on aircraft so when batt. runs out you can continue to drive, also can function as a portable generator for house or construction site Turbines are so inefficient, that the coast guard has a class of ships with gas turbines and diesels. They only run the gas turbines when they need high speed and run the much more efficient diesels the rest of the time. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:18:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I genuinely love the fact that we rehash this argument in a new thread every 2-3 days. +1 
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:19:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Storing gasoline get's you nothing and is a total pain in the ass. It goes bad with age, filling gas tanks is a pain in the ass and filling your car with them sucks. If you drive 40 miles a day, you need 10 gallons a work week. If you can generate 15 kwh a day with solar panels you can recharge an EV that drives 40 miles a day and you can sustain that for years or long after your gas is all gone. If you must evacuate a distance longer than 2 or 3 hundred miles, then yes a diesel truck with a big tank and a bigger auxillary tank are the way to go. The obvious solution is true to arfcom doctrine. Get both. 15 kwh is still more than the average house uses per day, and the costs to get that extra capacity can really add up. Either that, or I guess you just won't open the Fridge for a few days and hope everything lasts. Your reasonings against gas pale in comparison to the downside of needing to spend thousands of dollars on extra solar panels to make your dream come true today. No reasonable person is going to convince themselves that spending all that extra money on extra solar capacity at todays rates is better than spending $50 on two cans of gas. I think they'll deal with the complexities of figuring out how to pour gas into a funnel with that sort of savings. And again, this might all change in the future. Solar panels sure have gotten better over the years where in some places the break even point for installing them is in years and not decades. I'm not saying this will never happen, just that right now it's not the best plan. You've basically agreed with my premise. Solar is an actual reasonable solution for in-home generation, and sure does beat having to baby a generator for an entire week. But it's not at the point where it's objectively better than storing two 5 gallon jugs of gas for your car for that same week. The return is just not there. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:23:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I genuinely love the fact that we rehash this argument in a new thread every 2-3 days. And you'll love having it for the next five years. Welcome to the newest rehashed topic on cars. Want to talk about starters and how they are all going to fail any minute now instead? |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:23:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: China has more reason to go EV than anyone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: China will be selling ICE to the rest of the world while the West struggles to get by with EV. The narrow minded cannot see the problems because they are enjoying their subsidized niche vehicle. But there is still plenty of oil in the world, they will be making the ICE vehicles to sell around the world. They are probably paying off the CEO’s of car companies just like they are paying off presidents of western nations to ruin themselves. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:24:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A neighbor has a Volt. The 120V circuit charger completes a charge overnight. What is wrong with that? If the 80 amp figure is correct, not only would I need a new subpanel but I might have to increase the underground wiring from the electrical panel by the large above ground junction box. Arfcom assumes everyone completely empties EV's of the 300 mile range everyday but don't do that with gasoline engined cars. If you drive 20 or 40 mile commutes each day, then the amount of juice required to replace that isn't the same as a full recharge of a 300 mile range battery. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:24:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The electric grid can't handle the current demand, leading to rolling blackouts and brownouts. They better get cracking on upgrading that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The issue is that a a large portion of people in this country do not have a way to charge an electric vehicle at home. Let alone 2 vehicle households. Most stage 2 chargers require 50amp at 220v but this is increasing more and more, the new Ford lightning charger is 80 amps. Putting a 100 amp additional load on most houses in this country are going to be an issue. At minimum they will need a new panel. But everything back to the power source can be an issue. The even bigger issue is urban houses that do not have drive ways. On street parking and electric vehicle charging do not work. Good luck charging your car when the closest s place you can find to park is 100 yards away from your house. The alternative would be companies installing charging stations in employee parking lots. This will turn into having to pay your employer to be able to get to work. The electric grid can't handle the current demand, leading to rolling blackouts and brownouts. They better get cracking on upgrading that. Who is They? Sort out your own electric generation needs. Who cares what other people need? |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:24:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn’t mind if this was free market choice. Problem is it is not. Yep^^^^^ |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:26:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I genuinely love the fact that we rehash this argument in a new thread every 2-3 days. Don't worry. Nobody will learn anything. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:29:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a Volt for 4 years. A level 2 charger (240V) could charge it in 4 hours, which was actually nerfed. The Volt only used half of what it could have when connected to 240V. Off of 120V it would take about 8-10 hours... but that's only ~40 miles of range. That's enough to commute for a day for almost 80% of Americans. It's not enough to fully charge something like a Tesla from near flat.... but it's something. With an L2 charger hitting around 7kW, one could probably get 80-100 miles worth of charge overnight and wouldn't really need beefier wiring. Most people aren't going to drive the full range of an EV every single day and thus won't require large amounts of power every night. Just like most people don't drive a full tank of gas every day and have to stop and fill up every evening. It's much easier and quicker to just plug your car in every night. I figured it added all of 5 seconds to the time it took me to get out of my car and then into my house when I had my Volt. It's so convenient. Having an EV an not having to stop at a gas station 1 or twice a week would make me unreasonably happy. I think I will wait another 5 years though. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:48:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is about how I expected a road trip to go in an EV, just skip around to the charging station parts lol.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGjUQuXozYcI don't know if that is a typical charging cluster but that should convince any prospective Energizer bunny buyer to think long and hard about at least the Mach E. fast forward to 19 minutes, 27 minutes and 39:20. After the last I gave up. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:51:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arfcom assumes everyone completely empties EV's of the 300 mile range everyday but don't do that with gasoline engined cars. If you drive 20 or 40 mile commutes each day, then the amount of juice required to replace that isn't the same as a full recharge of a 300 mile range battery. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A neighbor has a Volt. The 120V circuit charger completes a charge overnight. What is wrong with that? If the 80 amp figure is correct, not only would I need a new subpanel but I might have to increase the underground wiring from the electrical panel by the large above ground junction box. Arfcom assumes everyone completely empties EV's of the 300 mile range everyday but don't do that with gasoline engined cars. If you drive 20 or 40 mile commutes each day, then the amount of juice required to replace that isn't the same as a full recharge of a 300 mile range battery. To start with a volt only has a 40? Mile battery because it’s a plug in hybrid, not an ev. It doesn’t matter when it comes to electrical draw. If you come home plug the car in, take a shower , start the oven and do a load laundry , you now have a large electric load from your car charger, water heater, oven, dryer and you’d still have an hvac system. It doesn’t matter how long the load lasts, if you have everything drawing at once your going to have issues. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:55:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know if that is a typical charging cluster but that should convince any prospective Energizer bunny buyer to think long and hard about at least the Mach E. fast forward to 19 minutes, 27 minutes and 39:20. After the last I gave up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is about how I expected a road trip to go in an EV, just skip around to the charging station parts lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGjUQuXozYcI don't know if that is a typical charging cluster but that should convince any prospective Energizer bunny buyer to think long and hard about at least the Mach E. fast forward to 19 minutes, 27 minutes and 39:20. After the last I gave up. His return trip went much better. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:55:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is They? Sort out your own electric generation needs. Who cares what other people need? That sounds wonderful in theory. As soon as I am able to get a nice piece of property in an area that isn't continuously either being developed with pop-up mcmansion neighborhoods or getting methy'er by the day (or both as is the case here) that is my dream. Until that day comes it is both easier and cheaper for me to run my vehicles on dead dinosaurs and corn squeezins. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:55:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is They? Sort out your own electric generation needs. Who cares what other people need? Most people will view it as the electrical company’s problem. But they are handicapped by government regulations. Localized pebble bed reactors will go along way. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 11:57:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I genuinely love the fact that we rehash this argument in a new thread every 2-3 days. Let's add in vaccines to make it really fun. |
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Posted: 5/28/2021 12:01:51 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His return trip went much better. I watched 39 minutes and he wasn't even to Las Vegas. Give up...get a room and start the next day refreshed. |
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