You keep talking about the MSM but nobody here is. Stop with the strawmen already.

Let alone that we know how well the EU is doing in terms of its population welfare.

Well, she is a socialist who is angry with the United States.

Another deflection, nobody is saying to blindly trust the government.

Deflections, strawmen, moved goalposts. That's all you guys have besides attempting to paint us as "fanatics" though you all are just as involved in this as us...so hypocrites too.

Several posters make very clear that they are Ukrainians living there, considering that they put Ukraine's problems above America's problems.

This poster indeed does that.  That's why I stopped wasting my time replying to his bs.

LMAO, no you stopped replying because you can't actually counter any arguments. We both know it. We also both know you have slobbed Putin's knob in the past, and we both know it would be impossible to find it in the archive so you can get away with lying and saying you never did. Awfully convenient.
You and your backup guy (or are you his backup?) have really shown your asses in this thread.

You "believe".  

I believe in many things, but so not state them as fact.

And when I do not know, I also say that I do not know.


With that:
1) I know there's a war between Russia and Ukraine.
2) I am not sure about what led to that war.
3) I question all information that come through usual non-reputable sources (e.g. MSM) and do not use to make any decision about who is right or wrong there.
4) I am sure that war is being used as distraction to much worse problems in the US and the Americans will pay a hefty price for that.
5) I have my doubts about how much Putin and the gang pushing the "free Ukraine!" narrative are together or not.

Yes. And it's really difficult to find the truth in the middle of so much smoke.

2) the info is there, you just don't care to read it.

5) LMAO. You guys will believe all kinds of dumb shit except for things there's actual proof for.

Let me guess 6) War crimes are probably committed by UKR as false flags

Maybe for you. Most people aren’t struggling.

Not when all the primary sources are saying the same thing.

But is what she wrote incorrect?  

This about what we just discussed about trying to find what is right in the middle of so much wrong.

There's where the confirmation bias kicks in.  If the person wants to believe on something and the information validates it, that person will believe it.

I am trying to not fall in that trap.

What she did was to take an MSM article that cited anonymous sources and add emotive language and bias to it. Which is really interesting because when the same MSM and the same anonymous sources say Russians commit war crimes in Bucha, but an angry socialist in the bottom of the world doesn’t rant about it, you call them liars.

Are you a socialist?

Once again, if anything I would be biased to want to believe Russia. But I don't. Because they are clearly lying, and much of the OSINT, info coming direct from the conflict paints a different story, though obviously not all of it paints a rosy picture of the war either.

But you guys don't want to see it.

This thread.

You guys don't like Tass, RT check this one out.
https://www.whatdoesitmean.com

lol

That’s a joke, right?

That's ironic, considering that many folks defending the "free Ukraine!" narrative use the MSM and cannot care less about the invasion in the US.  As far as "anonymous sources", there have been plenty on both sides.

Anyway, that's not the point.

She is saying how much the US government is lying.  That's "golden", considering that the current US government is as socialist leaning as it has ever been.  

So, is her rant because even her, a socialist (as you say), cannot take it anymore and finally found out that they are all criminals (like all other socialist-regime politicians)?

More lies. Nobody says to trust the government, and nobody here is indifferent to our own (unrelated) border problems.

You don’t trust the government, or the MSM, but throw a socialist in there with some commentary and you trust the combination. Brilliant, comrade.

When it comes down to it, our views of the world are so fundamentally different that there's no hope of either of us saying anything to convince the other.

That's why I think you're a fanatic. You believe you are absolutely right and there is no valid viewpoint other than yours. At least that's what I get from the many diatribes of yours that I have read (and I'm quite sure there are thousands you have written that I have missed).

Jesus.

No, you're relying on hyperbole and willful misinterpretation of what I write.
Yes, there are times I'm right and I know it. Quite often I don't know something and guess what- I either say I don't know or I don't say anything at all. I keep my mouth shut when I'm unsure, I ask, or I make it clear I'm guessing.

Now let's look at this case.

My position is that with the plethora of OSINT available to us we can make some pretty good conclusions about many things. Not every thing. But many things.
When you have 5 sources saying the same thing, and the the thing also makes sense, there's a good chance it's true.

So with bucha for example, we can accept all the OSINT we have, which is a lot, or we can say that they victims tied themselves up and called an arty Strike on themselves.

This position on making decisions on available info is correct, and I'm not going to apologize for it.

This is fanatical?

None of this even relies on the MSM but on that topic, you big brain types automatically throw out every single thing they say.

My position is that you should apply some common sense, dig into the sources yourself, read on the subject, then decide because occasionally they are correct.... obviously they are not to be trusted outright.

I'm not going to apologize for this correct statement either.


You're trying to claim that I think it's my way or no way, and that's not a correct characterization, you're just upset that some of us aren't in the wishy washy "let's find out who murdered Ukrainian civilians" camp when it's already obvious.

I'm the fanatic, yet none of you guys have even come close to presenting a coherent and believable argument.

There's plenty of valid viewpoints other than my own. It's not my fault that yours is dumb.

If you read carefully, you will see that it wasn't me who posted the link.  I simply noted that the article's author makes some good points and is not wrong about several of her claims.

Like we have been discussing, this is just another article to the pile. Like another one very interesting, posted in another thread, exposing many "inconvenient truths" about the present Ukrainian regime.  

And once again, the current "regime" has nothing to do with the unjustified invasion, or your continued denial about what is happening on the ground.