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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:24:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You proved my point. How is it the patient's "personal responsibility" to remain free of addiction when the government is forcing doctors to prescribe addictive pain killers? But, to answer your question: The drug execs knew the shit was addictive and deadly so they lobbied Congress and the president for the Ensuring Patient Access and Effective Drug Enforcement Act, which was signed into law by President Barack Obama in April 2016. Now, what criminal act did "drug execs" do? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:25:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They hid the truth about how dangerous they were. This is a good ruling |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:25:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And IMO it will also just make Drs. not want to prescribe the proper medicine for folks that actually need pain relief. I believe there’s a threefold problem. Quick addiction. Proliferation of heroin thanks to the WOD and no jobs/hopelessness in the areas that used to support manufacturing jobs. There’s NOTHING out there for those who aren’t cut out for school/trades. [/soapbox] TC |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:27:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even better yet. What about the FDA that approved this poison!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only way that J&J could sell this medicine is because the federal government said they could. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:28:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everybody, from the FDA to the docs to the government regulators knew, know, and will ever know that the meds are addictive and have known so since about 1860 when there was the beginnings of a huge rash of addiction in Civil War vets. And the law was desigend to protect medication manufacturers form frivolous actions kids like the laws that protect firearms manufacturers from frivolous actions. Now, what criminal act did "drug execs" do? I'm not a lawyer. Maybe that's not illegal. But it's wrong. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:31:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. We apparently discovered that opiates are dangerous in 2019, who knew? causes the patient to feel actual pain that is often worse than the pain they are being used for. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:32:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Um, like you said, they knew the drugs were addictive and deadly. They sold them, lobbied for deregulation, advertised them to doctors as non-addictive based on a single journal article (doctors should have known better, too) all while knowing they were lying and killing people (and leaving a lot of orphans) and making a lot of money in process. I'm not a lawyer. Maybe that's not illegal. But it's wrong. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:33:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are chemically different than the the older opiates. Stopping taking them causes the patient to feel actual pain that is often worse than the pain they are being used for. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:33:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, they are, like many drugs. Yet, drugs with dangerous side effects are used and sold and advertised every day. It's part of the job. And no, they were not advertised as "non-addictive." That was a myth. They were advertised as being less addictive due to the blood concentration profile and, if used properly, that is true. The addiction issue came from addicts misusing the product and side stepping the time release part of the medications. But most people don't know that because they don't know. @NavyDoc1 |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:33:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Some of you may remember one of the first things Obama said about Obamacare:
 Universal Obama: Maybe You're "Better Off" Taking Painkillers And Forgoing Surgery healthcare reform And at 00:03:30: "...maybe you're better off not having the surgery but taking the painkiller..." I remember he also said (I can't find a link), "Don't worry, under my plan grandma may not be able to get that knee replacement, but we'll make sure she has painkillers to deal with the pain." So, now they're taking the painkillers too? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:34:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shit, then why do they need prescription drugs for the condition? Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And IMO it will also just make Drs. not want to prescribe the proper medicine for folks that actually need pain relief. 
People in pain can get really pissed. Kharn Kharn |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:34:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
total bullshit. J+J Never told MD's to overprescribe, total fucking horseshit. Most Dr's aren't even visited by reps from narcotic companies. They were prescribing according to tradition learned from the "PDR".The bible that docs use when deciding which and how much of a med to give to patients. It wasn't the everyday average MD causing the issue, it was the fucking crooked fucks(who were usually foreigners, but not always) who sold their souls and the narcotics.J+J did not convince ANYONE to overprescribe. No one told stupid fucks to dissolve it and inject it,snort it or smoke it let alone lie to 10 different dos that they are in pain. IT is corrupt judges on the take from attorneys who came up with this judgment only to split the money they steal from J+J.So I hope no one is happy here because maybe the next time you need aspirin it may not be available because j+J is gone |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:35:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the doctor you trust prescribes you an addictive chemical exactly who is responsible? When, in the depths of the opioid crisis, Congesscritters change the law to make it harder to shut down the companies churning out the drugs exactly who is responsible? When DEA officials, who should be prosecuting the drug companies but are angling for better-paying jobs lobbying for them, fail to prosecute crimes exactly who is responsible? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:37:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are chemically different than the the older opiates. Stopping taking them causes the patient to feel actual pain that is often worse than the pain they are being used for. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: LOL. We apparently discovered that opiates are dangerous in 2019, who knew? causes the patient to feel actual pain that is often worse than the pain they are being used for. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:37:34 PM EDT
[#15]
All the smug drug warriors in this thread cheering making pain meds harder to get, are no different than gun banners becoming surprised when banning guns does not eliminate murder. You are not slowing drug addicts at all, nor will you cure your addicted loved one. All You are accomplishing is just fucking honest people from being able to acquire pain meds for legit medical problems, as everyone from doctors to pharmacists will refuse to provide them due to fear of losing their license. Which ironically...will drive many honest people to buy actual illegal drugs to handle pain needs.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:37:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plenty of blame from manufacturer CEOs to the patients, but the “solutions” to the problem will do nothing but make things worse for everyone except the drug companies & politicians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: When the doctor you trust prescribes you an addictive chemical exactly who is responsible? When, in the depths of the opioid crisis, Congesscritters change the law to make it harder to shut down the companies churning out the drugs exactly who is responsible? When DEA officials, who should be prosecuting the drug companies but are angling for better-paying jobs lobbying for them, fail to prosecute crimes exactly who is responsible? ETA: But, really, the fines are chicken feed vs. the profits they made. I read they made 11 billion over the course of this thing. What's $150 million? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:37:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to OST this. I have a buddy in the business and he's been telling me about this. When I get a cite I'll @you. @NavyDoc1 |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:38:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
total bullshit. J+J Never told MD's to overprescribe, total fucking horseshit. Most Dr's aren't even visited by reps from narcotic companies. They were prescribing according to tradition learned from the "PDR".The bible that docs use when deciding which and how much of a med to give to patients. It wasn't the everyday average MD causing the issue, it was the fucking crooked fucks(who were usually foreigners, but not always) who sold their souls and the narcotics.J+J did not convince ANYONE to overprescribe. No one told stupid fucks to dissolve it and inject it,snort it or smoke it let alone lie to 10 different dos that they are in pain. IT is corrupt judges on the take from attorneys who came up with this judgment only to split the money they steal from J+J.So I hope no one is happy here because maybe the next time you need aspirin it may not be available because j+J is gone https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/jnj/financials |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:38:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of you may remember one of the first things Obama said about Obamacare:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WnxsuVqSo8
And at 00:03:30: This was in reference to the elderly. I remember he also said (I can't find a link), "Don't worry, under my plan grandma may not be able to get that knee replacement, but we'll make sure she has painkillers to deal with the pain." So, now they're taking the painkillers too? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:39:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Concur. The "crisis" is bull shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
total bullshit. J+J Never told MD's to overprescribe, total fucking horseshit. Most Dr's aren't even visited by reps from narcotic companies. They were prescribing according to tradition learned from the "PDR".The bible that docs use when deciding which and how much of a med to give to patients. It wasn't the everyday average MD causing the issue, it was the fucking crooked fucks(who were usually foreigners, but not always) who sold their souls and the narcotics.J+J did not convince ANYONE to overprescribe. No one told stupid fucks to dissolve it and inject it,snort it or smoke it let alone lie to 10 different dos that they are in pain. IT is corrupt judges on the take from attorneys who came up with this judgment only to split the money they steal from J+J.So I hope no one is happy here because maybe the next time you need aspirin it may not be available because j+J is gone No one takes responsibility for their actions anymore. It's always someone else's fault. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:40:47 PM EDT
[#21]
nothing beats trying to take a shit for an hour and squeezin out an opiate turd the size of a small child from some good ol doctor prescribed pain killers
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:45:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
nothing beats trying to take a shit for an hour and squeezin out an opiate turd the size of a small child from some good ol doctor prescribed pain killers
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:46:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No worries, avoiding to commercials I saw, opioid patients are too constipated to enjoy daily life so they'll just sit at home and bitch about it. Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And IMO it will also just make Drs. not want to prescribe the proper medicine for folks that actually need pain relief.
People in pain can get really pissed. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:48:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much of those opiates were bought by medicare and medicaid patients? The state should sue itself for enabling the opiate crisis. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because a judge telling doctors what to do is a great plan.
The evening news tonight was talking about the overdose deaths in Oklahoma. If these patients were taking their meds as prescribed, how did they OD? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:49:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Concur. The "crisis" is bull shit. By which I mean, I teach elementary school and have had to deal with the fallout of more than several overdoses (a couple fatal) over the past few years and, speaking for the kids, there's nothing "bullshit" about this. The ODs, even non-fatal ones, are really bad for the kids too as they often find themselves displaced to foster or grandparents’ care and a new school or, if they started out with both parents, just end up back at school sometimes with a dead mom or dad. This wasn't happening 10 years ago. At least not among these people. Something changed to where middle class, productive people started abusing opioids and dying. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:49:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn’t this set a president for gun manufacturers.? Also for car manufacturers and ANY industry where someone kills themselves through stupidity. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 7:57:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Ahhh, a good old fashioned shakedown.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:00:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
total bullshit. J+J Never told MD's to overprescribe, total fucking horseshit. Most Dr's aren't even visited by reps from narcotic companies. They were prescribing according to tradition learned from the "PDR".The bible that docs use when deciding which and how much of a med to give to patients. It wasn't the everyday average MD causing the issue, it was the fucking crooked fucks(who were usually foreigners, but not always) who sold their souls and the narcotics.J+J did not convince ANYONE to overprescribe. No one told stupid fucks to dissolve it and inject it,snort it or smoke it let alone lie to 10 different dos that they are in pain. IT is corrupt judges on the take from attorneys who came up with this judgment only to split the money they steal from J+J.So I hope no one is happy here because maybe the next time you need aspirin it may not be available because j+J is gone |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:16:47 PM EDT
[#29]
@NavyDoc1
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198001103020221 This was the “evidence” that was used to promote the drugs as non addictive. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:19:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This will just cause the rest of their medication prices to go up. We are always looking for someone else to blame for our personal failings. They will not pay, we will pay. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:31:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it his fault you forgot to buy MiraLAX? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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nothing beats trying to take a shit for an hour and squeezin out an opiate turd the size of a small child from some good ol doctor prescribed pain killers |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:34:43 PM EDT
[#32]
So much for personal responsibility! Next, sueing McDonald's because you are fat?
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:36:59 PM EDT
[#33]
No more personal responsibility.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:38:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the doctor you trust prescribes you an addictive chemical exactly who is responsible? When, in the depths of the opioid crisis, Congesscritters change the law to make it harder to shut down the companies churning out the drugs exactly who is responsible? When DEA officials, who should be prosecuting the drug companies but are angling for better-paying jobs lobbying for them, fail to prosecute crimes exactly who is responsible? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:39:54 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the old folks revolt it's going to be a bloodbath.
People in pain can get really pissed. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:43:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ahhh, a good old fashioned shakedown. The only thing this "crisis" has done so far is create a giant self-licking government ice cream cone that makes it harder for honest people to get relief for chronic pain. A couple of years ago my doc told me that the writing was on the wall for the shit show we are dealing with today. She said that I would need to go to a pain clinic and jump through a bunch of hoops if I wanted to keep taking narcotics for chronic pain. I have a torn Achilles, a blown knee, and other injuries I received after being run over by a drunk driver while walking through a parking lot in 2013. Rather than jump through more hoops I opted to taper and stop taking narcotics all together. Today I cycle between Aleve, Tylenol, and Motrin. My quality of life is awful and my liver and kidneys are taking a beating - but at least the politicians can pat themselves on the back for "doing soemthing" 
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:46:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was at this time this became a poop thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And IMO it will also just make Drs. not want to prescribe the proper medicine for folks that actually need pain relief.
People in pain can get really pissed. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:48:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Calling the opioid crisis an "imminent danger and menace," 
"Specifically, defendants caused an opioid crisis that's evidenced by increased rates of addiction, overdose deaths and neonatal abstinence syndrome" When does the suit against the FDA proceed? Oh yeah, that's right. They aren't Big Pharma (tm) with deep pockets to fleece. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:49:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
its definately johnson & johnson's fault. Whatever. Being constipated like that builds character Quote HistoryQuoted:
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nothing beats trying to take a shit for an hour and squeezin out an opiate turd the size of a small child from some good ol doctor prescribed pain killers 
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:49:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So much for personal responsibility! Next, sueing McDonald's because you are fat? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:51:56 PM EDT
[#41]
GD logic:
Google editing content = their business their rules Burning the flag = not freedom of speech and those assholes need to be in jail. Gun deaths = not gun manufacturers problem - guns are just a tool Tobacco = I can smoke anywhere screw everyone else or screw all smokers you all suck - depends on the day. Drug company makes drugs that people use to help With pain pain = prescription or not people abuse them and get addicted and it’s then the manufacturers fault .....I mean ok |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:58:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, they are, like many drugs. Yet, drugs with dangerous side effects are used and sold and advertised every day. It's part of the job. And no, they were not advertised as "non-addictive." That was a myth. They were advertised as being less addictive due to the blood concentration profile and, if used properly, that is true. The addiction issue came from addicts misusing the product and side stepping the time release part of the medications. But most people don't know that because they don't know. 
Of course, as usual, you are exactly correct. I have at times in my life had things like Percocet in my medicine cabinet for YEARS. I was prescribed it, didn't need all of it, held onto it for a rainy day. And yet, magically, I'm not manning the glory hole to pay for my next hit of smack. But your average drug addict, who will try ANYTHING and who buys into all kinds of bullshit ("hey man, draw the meth into the syringe through a cigarette butt, the filter purifies it"  ) and who represent the vast majority of opioid addicts in the OPIOID CRISIS can't possibly be to blame. It's not their behavior, it's those evil drug companies that marketed the meds the way they did! (I guess they sent the mechanism of action data to these fledgling PhDs' houses....uh crack houses)
Let's make 85 year old Grandmas with cancer physically go to Dr offices to get their prescriptions renewed. That sounds like a rational path to solve the "crisis". |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 8:59:50 PM EDT
[#43]
So grown people who decided to use these drugs get a free pass and everybody blames Johnson & Johnson. Only in America can grown people do dumb stuff and everybody pitys them. The users should be locked up. Let me guess accountability is for "snowflakes". IDC this world is sick.??
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Posted: 8/26/2019 9:02:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@NavyDoc1 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198001103020221 This was the “evidence” that was used to promote the drugs as non addictive. You have repeatedly said that these meds were marketed as "non-addictive." Now show me that. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 9:06:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The "crisis" is not bullshit for the kids at the bottom of the hill this shit rolls down. By which I mean, I teach elementary school and have had to deal with the fallout of more than several overdoses (a couple fatal) over the past few years and, speaking for the kids, there's nothing "bullshit" about this. The ODs, even non-fatal ones, are really bad for the kids too as they often find themselves displaced to foster or grandparents’ care and a new school or, if they started out with both parents, just end up back at school sometimes with a dead mom or dad. This wasn't happening 10 years ago. At least not among these people. Something changed to where middle class, productive people started abusing opioids and dying. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Concur. The "crisis" is bull shit. By which I mean, I teach elementary school and have had to deal with the fallout of more than several overdoses (a couple fatal) over the past few years and, speaking for the kids, there's nothing "bullshit" about this. The ODs, even non-fatal ones, are really bad for the kids too as they often find themselves displaced to foster or grandparents’ care and a new school or, if they started out with both parents, just end up back at school sometimes with a dead mom or dad. This wasn't happening 10 years ago. At least not among these people. Something changed to where middle class, productive people started abusing opioids and dying. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 9:09:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
total bullshit. J+J Never told MD's to overprescribe, total fucking horseshit. Most Dr's aren't even visited by reps from narcotic companies. They were prescribing according to tradition learned from the "PDR".The bible that docs use when deciding which and how much of a med to give to patients. It wasn't the everyday average MD causing the issue, it was the fucking crooked fucks(who were usually foreigners, but not always) who sold their souls and the narcotics.J+J did not convince ANYONE to overprescribe. No one told stupid fucks to dissolve it and inject it,snort it or smoke it let alone lie to 10 different dos that they are in pain. IT is corrupt judges on the take from attorneys who came up with this judgment only to split the money they steal from J+J.So I hope no one is happy here because maybe the next time you need aspirin it may not be available because j+J is gone |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 9:11:18 PM EDT
[#47]
I always wonder where the money goes on these giant judgements against corporations.
I'm assuming a good chunk goes to lawyers and the rest disappears into the black hole of government. Guessing a lot of the time the judgement is overturned or lowered eventually on appeal. When you start talking talking half a billion here or there thats real money. Where does it go? Like with the giant tobacco settlements where did all that loot disappear to? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 9:11:21 PM EDT
[#48]
For all of you saying "good" just remember that this sets a legal precedent for other things.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 9:12:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not good. Terrible decision. Abhorrent. Let me guess: "big corporations bad!" |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 9:12:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When the doctor you trust prescribes you an addictive chemical exactly who is responsible? When, in the depths of the opioid crisis, Congesscritters change the law to make it harder to shut down the companies churning out the drugs exactly who is responsible? When DEA officials, who should be prosecuting the drug companies but are angling for better-paying jobs lobbying for them, fail to prosecute crimes exactly who is responsible? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Because who needs personal responsibility when you've got lawyers, right  Virtually every adult I'm related to or currently associate with has been prescribed "opiod" painkillers at some point in their life, and somehow they've ALL managed to use them in a medically responsible manner and not go shopping around for more afterwards. We must be some pack of warlocks to have such powers. Oh wait; maybe we're just not a bunch of junkie shitbags who were already hard at work getting blasted on street drugs before we were prescribed medical painkillers. 
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