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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:45:15 AM EDT
[#1]
Still skeptical. The judge didn't rule on any of the technical aspects of the issue, just that SIG didn't know about any problems at the time. For those with short memories Glock went thru variations of this in the early days. Most cops are abysmal gun handlers. They qualify the absolute minimum number of times then never touch the pistol the rest of the year. You could get away with this in the revolver era. Autos require a bit more care and finesse. Have several friends who are LE instructors. The stories they tell are troubling to say the least.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:46:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Sig is trash.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:46:39 AM EDT
[#3]
I've been saying these things are still dangerous for a while now. While they are fun to shoot, as a firearms instructor I HATE these things.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:54:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does this only happen to cops? Professionals. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:55:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If a gun can malfunction because it has not been cleaned - whose fault is that. If they put an 8lb trigger in it - would we complain more? AFAIK Many people have gone thousands of rounds on their Glocks without these self firing failures |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:06:38 AM EDT
[#6]
 P320 Goes OFF in Holster UNCOMMANDED | I don’t think so |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:10:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was no evidence produced that said the gun was unsafe. All the judge said was that the plaintiffs main piece of evidence was not seen by Sig until 3 years after the plaintiffs incident occurred. People will have a hard time understanding this. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:16:30 AM EDT
[#8]
I was going to buy a p320. You mean they aren't safe?
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:17:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This dude literally turned his P250 into a P320. The only difference in the FCU is they had to remove a little bit of material and drill some holes as you would expect for a reengineered design. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The p250 and p320 internals are nothing alike. The empty fcu is similar, but that's it. The 250 is dao hammer fired and the 320 is sao striker fired. This dude literally turned his P250 into a P320. The only difference in the FCU is they had to remove a little bit of material and drill some holes as you would expect for a reengineered design. Pretty cool |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:21:03 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:22:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many hundreds of thousands of P320s does the US military currently own, how many billions of rounds have they fired, and how many thighs have been striped? I think that would be pertinent. It would be very odd if all the accidents are happening with cops and none with the massive number of .mil units in current use. I believe the military guns all have manual safeties? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:22:55 AM EDT
[#12]
A lot of retardation in this thread
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:25:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would consider a new belt, and KETO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Some inside the pants holsters I wear in the small of my back will flip topside out and the barrel is pointed directly my lower spine IF the pants or shorts are loose (when getting up from a seated position, sometimes the rails on the back of a chair will do it). I was just thinking about this the other day - what if the pistol went off! I usually carry a Px4SC which is a double/single with hammer drop de-cock safety plus it has a firing pin block. But, I have a lot of small short barreled striker fired pistols like a Taurus GX4, S&W Shield Plus, etc.. I was considering a Sig as well. I would consider a new belt, and KETO. It has happened even with a heavier leather belt. It depends on the cut of the shorts or pants as well as the barrel being short. And I'm in very good shape thank you. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:27:22 AM EDT
[#14]
I would want to know what holster was in play.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 10:53:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryIt seems like it shoots when you pull the trigger. It might be easier than some would like to pull the trigger, but that seems to be what is happening.  How can a P320s fire un-commanded? AKA P320 fires while in its holster? One of the apparent p320 holster discharges. The guy has to roll and force his gun side against the c-pillar to get out of the car. The gun discharges as he stands while dragging his gun side against the car.  p320 un-commanded firing January 2021 |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 11:02:38 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was going to ask about that. I sidelined my 320 but still carry my 365 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is my p365 safe? P365 is a completely different design This was what I wanted to know. I have 1 320 but 4 365s. Good deal. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 11:07:07 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems like it shoots when you pull the trigger. It might be easier than some would like to pull the trigger, but that seems to be what is happening.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK66ua7-Bm0One of the apparent p320 holster discharges. The guy has to roll and force his gun side against the c-pillar to get out of the car. The gun discharges as he stands while dragging his gun side against the car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhzs-uErcYkWhat part of his hoodie was caught in the holster? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 11:07:19 AM EDT
[#18]
p320… because we all wanted the bore-grip offset of a C96 mauser.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 11:50:01 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryThat's my issue with the concern. How does the pistol on it's own disengage the sear and engage the firing pin block without the trigger moving. There are two things that must fail in order for it to fire on it's own. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:24:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whoops Also I was under the impression the manual safety does NOT block or affect anything with the FP/Striker. It only impedes the trigger correct? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:26:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still skeptical. The judge didn't rule on any of the technical aspects of the issue, just that SIG didn't know about any problems at the time. For those with short memories Glock went thru variations of this in the early days. Most cops are abysmal gun handlers. They qualify the absolute minimum number of times then never touch the pistol the rest of the year. You could get away with this in the revolver era. Autos require a bit more care and finesse. Have several friends who are LE instructors. The stories they tell are troubling to say the least. GLOCK would have never survived if shit like YouTube and Arfcom had been a thing back then. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:41:07 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:46:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GLOCK would have never survived if shit like YouTube and Arfcom had been a thing back then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Still skeptical. The judge didn't rule on any of the technical aspects of the issue, just that SIG didn't know about any problems at the time. For those with short memories Glock went thru variations of this in the early days. Most cops are abysmal gun handlers. They qualify the absolute minimum number of times then never touch the pistol the rest of the year. You could get away with this in the revolver era. Autos require a bit more care and finesse. Have several friends who are LE instructors. The stories they tell are troubling to say the least. GLOCK would have never survived if shit like YouTube and Arfcom had been a thing back then. Probably. Ubiquitous security cameras and cellphones likely have a lot to do with it as well. If you're in public you're probably being filmed. That sure wasn't the case in the late 80s/early 90s when Glocks first started becoming popular. By the time cameras were everywhere they'd mostly worked out the bugs. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:55:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Op may as well have made thread title,
Braking: Judge sides with sig, proves glock leg is real.. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:58:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's my issue with the concern. How does the pistol on it's own disengage the sear and engage the firing pin block without the trigger moving. There are two things that must fail in order for it to fire on it's own. Quote HistoryQuoted: That's my issue with the concern. How does the pistol on it's own disengage the sear and engage the firing pin block without the trigger moving. There are two things that must fail in order for it to fire on it's own. Maybe the trigger is moving? That was the issue with them firing when dropped. Inertia basically made the trigger move without any contact with the trigger. I think everyone could agree the gun should not fire without the user pressing the trigger? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:01:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m no Glock fanboy and don’t carry one, and oh yes they’ve had problems over the years. The tendency in the gun community with Glock’s issues was to blame the end users, and now it’s the same with SIG’s. Police incidents make news in a way that some civilian schmuck who shoots a hole in the floor or his backside doesn’t. And yes, police carry and handle their pistols more than most. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Amen, and we already know they shipped unsafe 320s. It’s certainly not impossible that there are other problems with the design. After SIG’s behavior, they aren’t entitled to the benefit of the doubt. ETA: A lot of gun companies have sold a lot of defective or unsafe weapons. SIG, Remington, Taurus, others I’m sure I’m forgetting, and the number of serious defects in quality that we just accept by comparison to power tools or home appliances is shocking. Glock has had issues as well but don't you find it odd that the primary reason for Glock/Sig Leg is cops? I’m no Glock fanboy and don’t carry one, and oh yes they’ve had problems over the years. The tendency in the gun community with Glock’s issues was to blame the end users, and now it’s the same with SIG’s. Police incidents make news in a way that some civilian schmuck who shoots a hole in the floor or his backside doesn’t. And yes, police carry and handle their pistols more than most. Police do handle their weapons more than the average citizen but that doesn't mean they follow the safety rules to the "T." Glock AD/ND are the result of poor handling or modifications that defeat safeties, etc. Same with Sig. Same with the cops that sued Smith and Wesson (which I posted and article about that). Being a cop doesn't mean you are automatically safe/skilled with firearms but people like to put them up on a pedestal. Hell, they don't follow basic constitutional rights and think they are above the law (not all, but a good amount do). |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:03:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe the trigger is moving? That was the issue with them firing when dropped. Inertia basically made the trigger move without any contact with the trigger. I think everyone could agree the gun should not fire without the user pressing the trigger? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's my issue with the concern. How does the pistol on it's own disengage the sear and engage the firing pin block without the trigger moving. There are two things that must fail in order for it to fire on it's own. Maybe the trigger is moving? That was the issue with them firing when dropped. Inertia basically made the trigger move without any contact with the trigger. I think everyone could agree the gun should not fire without the user pressing the trigger? I'm still guessing it has more to do with the holster. Holsters that accommodate a WML leave room on the side of the trigger guard area, since the lights are wider than the trigger guard there isn't really a way around it. The 320's are known for having excellent but light triggers, so it wouldn't take a ton of effort for something to get into the holster and pull the trigger. The lack of a trigger dingus wouldn't help either. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:24:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm still guessing it has more to do with the holster. Holsters that accommodate a WML leave room on the side of the trigger guard area, since the lights are wider than the trigger guard there isn't really a way around it. The 320's are known for having excellent but light triggers, so it wouldn't take a ton of effort for something to get into the holster and pull the trigger. The lack of a trigger dingus wouldn't help either. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's my issue with the concern. How does the pistol on it's own disengage the sear and engage the firing pin block without the trigger moving. There are two things that must fail in order for it to fire on it's own. Maybe the trigger is moving? That was the issue with them firing when dropped. Inertia basically made the trigger move without any contact with the trigger. I think everyone could agree the gun should not fire without the user pressing the trigger? I'm still guessing it has more to do with the holster. Holsters that accommodate a WML leave room on the side of the trigger guard area, since the lights are wider than the trigger guard there isn't really a way around it. The 320's are known for having excellent but light triggers, so it wouldn't take a ton of effort for something to get into the holster and pull the trigger. The lack of a trigger dingus wouldn't help either. Dept. issue the trigger dingus for the dingus'. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 4:29:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Looks like there are several of these joglee threads where OP is on a mission to slam the P320 like the dems do with Orangeman bad. Now it is P320gun bad.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 4:55:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like there are several of these joglee threads where OP is on a mission to slam the P320 like the dems do with Orangeman bad. Now it is P320gun bad. He's probably mad that the .mil adopted it and he didn't start a thread predicting it ahead of time. 
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Posted: 9/20/2022 5:15:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's probably mad that the .mil adopted it and he didn't start a thread predicting it ahead of time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks like there are several of these joglee threads where OP is on a mission to slam the P320 like the dems do with Orangeman bad. Now it is P320gun bad. He's probably mad that the .mil adopted it and he didn't start a thread predicting it ahead of time. Wonder what he predicted? I predict that he is a Never_Sig'r |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 6:03:37 PM EDT
[#32]
The irony that the blogger who set off the P320 drop test firestorm of controversy is now working for the US Army - who has committed to buying millions and millions of dollars in Sig pistols, carbines, and machine guns - AS A JAG OFFICER - is incredibly rich.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:03:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The irony that the blogger who set off the P320 drop test firestorm of controversy is now working for the US Army - who has committed to buying millions and millions of dollars in Sig pistols, carbines, and machine guns - AS A JAG OFFICER - is incredibly rich. Who is this blogger you speak of? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:10:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been saying these things are still dangerous for a while now. While they are fun to shoot, as a firearms instructor I HATE these things. As a firearms instructor, I like them a lot. They are no more "dangerous" than any other striker fired pistol. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 3:20:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a firearms instructor, I like them a lot. They are no more "dangerous" than any other striker fired pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've been saying these things are still dangerous for a while now. While they are fun to shoot, as a firearms instructor I HATE these things. As a firearms instructor, I like them a lot. They are no more "dangerous" than any other striker fired pistol. This for some reason is a hard concept to fathom for some people. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:53:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is this blogger you speak of? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The irony that the blogger who set off the P320 drop test firestorm of controversy is now working for the US Army - who has committed to buying millions and millions of dollars in Sig pistols, carbines, and machine guns - AS A JAG OFFICER - is incredibly rich. Who is this blogger you speak of? Vuurwapenblog https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/blog/sig-sauer-p320-fails-drop-test/ |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:02:14 AM EDT
[#37]
The Sig needful?
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:13:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reinforces my personal belief that plastic SIGS are an abomination to the Lord. And the Lord said, BEHOLD; the works done before the corruption! 
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Posted: 9/21/2022 4:00:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the Lord said, BEHOLD; the works done before the corruption! https://gunsonlinestore.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/10162734-1.jpg was never a fan |
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Posted: 10/20/2022 12:18:29 AM EDT
[#40]
 My Sig P320 fired on its own in the holster and tried to shoot me! (P320 X-Five)  Bad firing pin return spring?
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