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Posted: 1/18/2016 4:56:01 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure sounds like he held them while he tried to put something together with the locals. So there was never a "stand down," and of course "we are surly going to rescue, just hold on for a second" (or half and hour) until I get more info. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Agency and 'Bob' challenging movie's version of events: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/former-cia-chief-in-benghazi-challenges-film-version-of-2012-attack/2016/01/15/9cf2defc-baf7-11e5-b682-4bb4dd403c7d_story.html "According to the officer in charge of the CIA’s Benghazi base that night, the scene in the movie is entirely untrue. "There never was a stand-down order,” said the base chief known as Bob, speaking publicly for the first time. "At no time did I ever second-guess that the team would depart.” The question of whether someone had issued a "stand down” has loomed over Benghazi since the immediate aftermath of the attacks. The initial speculation centered mainly on whether an official in Washington, including then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, had impeded rescue attempts — an allegation rejected by a series of congressional inquiries. A 2014 House Intelligence Committee report found "no evidence that there was either a stand down order or a denial of available air support.” The book and film, by contrast, blame Bob for blocking the departure of security operators until it was too late. The author of the book, Mitchell Zuckoff, said in a telephone interview that he stands by the depiction and that it is based on first-hand accounts. According to the book and the movie, the security contractors assembled their weapons and jumped into vehicles to begin a rescue mission. Bob, they said, ordered them to wait. Bob acknowledged that he was "concerned about an ambush” and that a departure by the security team would have "left our base more vulnerable to attack.” But, he said, "there was never any question that there was going to be a rescue mission,” and no instruction by him to hold off. Instead, Bob said he spent much of the immediate period after the attack began, about 20 minutes, standing beside the leader of the GRS team — who still works at the CIA — scrambling to enlist local security teams." I read that article the other night and got the same opinion. "We totally were gonna go, but not now and we didn't know when. But I never said no". Dudes trying to save his rep and it isn't helping. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 4:56:48 PM EST
[#2]
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Just got back from it. Very good movie. Made me angrier than I was before. This. Great movie. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:09:27 PM EST
[#3]
Good movie. First time I've been in a movie theater in almost 10 years. It was supposed to be a gun free zone
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:09:31 PM EST
[#4]
Somewhere I heard POTUS was self incapacitated and that Valerie Jarrett spoke on his behalf regarding stand down.
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:16:20 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mullen - Disgraceful - from 19 SEP 2013 testimony LTC Gibson (SOC CDR - AFRICOM) told to "hold in place." ETA: Mullen also said "there was a physics problem with getting air support to Benghazi during the attack." I always though Mullen was a Fred McMurray looking douche. There wasn't a physics problem that the Air Force couldn't have rapidly planned through. It's also interesting that the UAV wasn't able to provide any support itself. 
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:21:24 PM EST
[#6]
Going to see it here in about an hour. Need a status to put on the social media to piss off all my libtard friends on this fine day.
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:25:51 PM EST
[#7]
Physics problem is a euphemism today, that equates to the tyranny of distance of yesterday.
I often hear Cols and Gens say that when they talk about we cannot get there from here in the time required,. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:35:23 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Physics problem is a euphemism today, that equates to the tyranny of distance of yesterday. I often hear Cols and Gens say that when they talk about we cannot get there from here in the time required,. In a lot less than 13 hours you could coordinate the dip clearances to get a B-1 and tankers from Qatar to Bengazi. Less time if you pulled a couple of assets off of over Iraq. Hell they could have had jets out of England there in less time if they really cared to let us try. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:40:35 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gun mag said they purposely changed the weapons used in the movie. No SIGS and different rifles, oh and no EOTECHS I thought they said they purposely changed the grenade launcher, but the other weapons were accurate. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:41:55 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't seen it yet but t I have heard that HRCs name is never mentioned. No. But they make mention multiple times throughout that a drone is overhead watching. It's easy for anyone capable of thought, to understand those dudes were left to fend for themselves. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:46:05 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a lot less than 13 hours you could coordinate the dip clearances to get a B-1 and tankers from Qatar to Bengazi. Less time if you pulled a couple of assets off of over Iraq. Hell they could have had jets out of England there in less time if they really cared to let us try. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Physics problem is a euphemism today, that equates to the tyranny of distance of yesterday. I often hear Cols and Gens say that when they talk about we cannot get there from here in the time required,. In a lot less than 13 hours you could coordinate the dip clearances to get a B-1 and tankers from Qatar to Bengazi. Less time if you pulled a couple of assets off of over Iraq. Hell they could have had jets out of England there in less time if they really cared to let us try. I don't doubt that it could be done less than 13 hours; but I think it takes much longer than most people thinks it does. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:51:47 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. But they make mention multiple times throughout that a drone is overhead watching. It's easy for anyone capable of thought, to understand those dudes were left to fend for themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I haven't seen it yet but t I have heard that HRCs name is never mentioned. No. But they make mention multiple times throughout that a drone is overhead watching. It's easy for anyone capable of thought, to understand those dudes were left to fend for themselves. And "there's been a State facility overrun with the Ambassador killed" is going to make it to highest levels of leadership regardless of the time of day. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 5:56:37 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems obvious that as fluid as things were on the ground, a lot of what happened was because of decisions and events right there in Benghazi. I'm still pissed, though, at Secretary Clinton's response to the repeated calls for increases in security before the event, and at her attempt to minimize it and make it go away afterwards by lying to the American people when it was obvious that a coordinated attack had taken place. I think one of the things that gets a lot of people upset is that we have this picture in our minds that if something like this went down, we'd have a military response mounted from a nearby base very quickly. It appears that the reality is more dogged by bureaucracy (which is unsurprising). My question is whether Secretary Clinton or President Obama could have instantly overridden that bureaucracy, and if they could and had, whether there would have been anything more than political fallout as a result. I think Obama could have ordered them to do everything humanly possible and that would have allowed them to work around the bureaucracy to a large extent. I don't know what HRC could have done, but I suspect there is a certain amount of latitude she could have put in place. so, yeah they could have done something - whether or not it would have been enough is a guess. But they are cowards for not even trying. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:03:08 PM EST
[#14]
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How did the cast and Michael Bay react to the clapping?  I never understood why people clap in a movie since applause is meant to be received by the performers. Yeah, I actually know why, but I'm that guy.  clapping does more than that - it also cements the experience in the minds of the audience as well, and creates a lasting impression. Being an election year, I'll take the impression. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:05:22 PM EST
[#15]
"Still no Americans have come." FHRC and FBHO.
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:05:46 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought they said they purposely changed the grenade launcher, but the other weapons were accurate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gun mag said they purposely changed the weapons used in the movie. No SIGS and different rifles, oh and no EOTECHS I thought they said they purposely changed the grenade launcher, but the other weapons were accurate. There were definitely eotechs GREAT movie Jim Halpert was very good |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:11:38 PM EST
[#17]
Great movie, dem/lib leadership has to go. I watched the Fox News documentary awhile back, the book's next. BTW, Halpert was solid.
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:14:01 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Military can't do shit without the approval of the civilian authority. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't you love how there were drones overhead for hours yet no help arrived? We know the State Department, the Pentagon, the CIA knew what was happening. CBS News has been told that, hours after the attack began, an unmanned Predator drone was sent over the U.S. mission in Benghazi, and that the drone and other reconnaissance aircraft apparently observed the final hours of the protracted battle. AC-130U gunships were reportedly stationed at NAS Sigonella (on Sicily) The distance from Sigonella to Benghazi is about 420 miles, about two hours' flying time for an AC-130. Disgraceful. Military can't do shit without the approval of the civilian authority. The Joint Chiefs, CNO, Commandant, etc are all political appointees, they could have called their contacts at the media or resign in protest. They did nothing but keep accepting their paychecks. Just another day at the office. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:16:14 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There wasn't a physics problem that the Air Force couldn't have rapidly planned through. It's also interesting that the UAV wasn't able to provide any support itself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Mullen - Disgraceful - from 19 SEP 2013 testimony LTC Gibson (SOC CDR - AFRICOM) told to "hold in place." ETA: Mullen also said "there was a physics problem with getting air support to Benghazi during the attack." I always though Mullen was a Fred McMurray looking douche. There wasn't a physics problem that the Air Force couldn't have rapidly planned through. It's also interesting that the UAV wasn't able to provide any support itself. The argument is the F16s didn't have the legs to fly direct and do any good. The counter argument is that supposedly they could have fast hopped the F-16s to a closer base, refueled, armed and been on station in 3-4 hours, they could have staggered them and had several making sorties - loaded going out as empty were coming in. I don't know if this is correct, but at least one talking head presented this as a valid option that was not explored. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:20:24 PM EST
[#20]
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:21:10 PM EST
[#21]
What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position.
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:24:26 PM EST
[#22]
100 troops with weapons and vehicles, now that would have been worth doing.
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:29:11 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:32:23 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. The annex was almost lost. They were under siege for about 6 hours, getting hit with RPGs, machine guns, and mortars. A few F16s doing a low flyover would have alerted every insurgent in the AO that ordnance was about to get dropped on their heads and they would have broken off the attack. These guys planned the attack to hit weak points, when they encounter strength they rarely press forward, they lack the discipline and organization. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:38:17 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. Forget Stevens, you still had 30+ Americans still at risk 13 hours into the attack.
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:52:14 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Joint Chiefs, CNO, Commandant, etc are all political appointees, they could have called their contacts at the media or resign in protest. They did nothing but keep accepting their paychecks. Just another day at the office. That's the problem with political appointees |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 6:54:07 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. Breaking the sound barrier 50 feet above the rooftops can be a deterrent. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 7:00:12 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The annex was almost lost. They were under siege for about 6 hours, getting hit with RPGs, machine guns, and mortars. A few F16s doing a low flyover would have alerted every insurgent in the AO that ordnance was about to get dropped on their heads and they would have broken off the attack. These guys planned the attack to hit weak points, when they encounter strength they rarely press forward, they lack the discipline and organization. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. The annex was almost lost. They were under siege for about 6 hours, getting hit with RPGs, machine guns, and mortars. A few F16s doing a low flyover would have alerted every insurgent in the AO that ordnance was about to get dropped on their heads and they would have broken off the attack. These guys planned the attack to hit weak points, when they encounter strength they rarely press forward, they lack the discipline and organization. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 8:53:27 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought they said they purposely changed the grenade launcher, but the other weapons were accurate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gun mag said they purposely changed the weapons used in the movie. No SIGS and different rifles, oh and no EOTECHS I thought they said they purposely changed the grenade launcher, but the other weapons were accurate. Why would they do that? |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 8:58:05 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read that article the other night and got the same opinion. "We totally were gonna go, but not now and we didn't know when. But I never said no". Dudes trying to save his rep and it isn't helping. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Agency and 'Bob' challenging movie's version of events: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/former-cia-chief-in-benghazi-challenges-film-version-of-2012-attack/2016/01/15/9cf2defc-baf7-11e5-b682-4bb4dd403c7d_story.html "According to the officer in charge of the CIA’s Benghazi base that night, the scene in the movie is entirely untrue. "There never was a stand-down order,” said the base chief known as Bob, speaking publicly for the first time. "At no time did I ever second-guess that the team would depart.” The question of whether someone had issued a "stand down” has loomed over Benghazi since the immediate aftermath of the attacks. The initial speculation centered mainly on whether an official in Washington, including then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, had impeded rescue attempts — an allegation rejected by a series of congressional inquiries. A 2014 House Intelligence Committee report found "no evidence that there was either a stand down order or a denial of available air support.” The book and film, by contrast, blame Bob for blocking the departure of security operators until it was too late. The author of the book, Mitchell Zuckoff, said in a telephone interview that he stands by the depiction and that it is based on first-hand accounts. According to the book and the movie, the security contractors assembled their weapons and jumped into vehicles to begin a rescue mission. Bob, they said, ordered them to wait. Bob acknowledged that he was "concerned about an ambush” and that a departure by the security team would have "left our base more vulnerable to attack.” But, he said, "there was never any question that there was going to be a rescue mission,” and no instruction by him to hold off. Instead, Bob said he spent much of the immediate period after the attack began, about 20 minutes, standing beside the leader of the GRS team — who still works at the CIA — scrambling to enlist local security teams." I read that article the other night and got the same opinion. "We totally were gonna go, but not now and we didn't know when. But I never said no". Dudes trying to save his rep and it isn't helping. 5 years later and how many different versions of the Bin Laden raid have we heard, even from the Team guys that went in? |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 9:08:02 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And who is gonna pay for all that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I just got back from seeing it. Great movie movie but I really wish that it was a total work of fiction! I cant believe that really happened! My combat experience is limited to a few nasty nerf wars and water gun fights but wasn't that security force terribly under manned and under equipped? The whole country was in chaos with all manner of American hating psycho fishing thru Qaddafi's war toy box and they have what ten guys? Our government had to know this and that the locals were flaky. Why not have at least one hundred or more men maybe Marines? Take over on of the air ports and base air support there. What about armor Bradleys ect. Just cant believe any of those people were put in that situation. Some one needs to go to jail! And who is gonna pay for all that? I would hazard to bet that Uncle Sam has enough to cover the cost. The movie made it seem that it was more a lack of will to use more force when it was needed and bad prior planning. A bigger force with visible air support may have deterred them from attacking in the first place. What did the hearings resulting from this incident cost? If they were not going to adequately protected they shouldn't be put there in the first place. If need be raise my taxes I can skip Chic Filet and Starbucks a few time a week. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 9:40:36 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jim Halpert was very good LOL I remember a thread here saying Halpert really didn't look like the SEAL type. As soon as he took his shirt off I laughed because he looked exactly like the Marine/SOF type. Skinny legs, massively developed upper body (back, shoulders, chest, he looked exactly like warfighters who need to pull themselves up and over walls with all their gear). I really liked this movie - everyone did their job, everyone was a pro - the guys in Benghazi and Tripoli, the Marines in Sigonella, the people in the Pentagon, even Chris Stevens. The only fuck ups and incompetent shitbirds were the scumbag politicians back here in the US who couldn't come up with a plan or a set of testicles to save their lives. |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 10:59:15 PM EST
[#33]
Saw it earlier tonight. It was a very somber feeling in the theater. Had two old ladies sitting behind us, I'd say pushing 60+yo that kept saying "Fucking shoot them!" when the goat fuckers would roll up to the compound. The lady friend cried multiple times during the whole thing. Could hear a pin drop at the end of it. Best part was "Still no Americans" towards the end of the movie when Libya airlines rolled in. Subtle, yet you could tell this was a big fuck you to our govt.
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Posted: 1/19/2016 12:18:19 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a lot less than 13 hours you could coordinate the dip clearances to get a B-1 and tankers from Qatar to Bengazi. Less time if you pulled a couple of assets off of over Iraq. Hell they could have had jets out of England there in less time if they really cared to let us try. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Physics problem is a euphemism today, that equates to the tyranny of distance of yesterday. I often hear Cols and Gens say that when they talk about we cannot get there from here in the time required,. In a lot less than 13 hours you could coordinate the dip clearances to get a B-1 and tankers from Qatar to Bengazi. Less time if you pulled a couple of assets off of over Iraq. Hell they could have had jets out of England there in less time if they really cared to let us try. I think that is the thing that baffles people like me. Is it appears they did nothing. Just let it play out to its natural end. No spinning up of anything. No we woke everyone up, fired up the birds, get some tankers in the air, get a C-130 turning and some Marines on it. From here it looks like we left them to die. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 12:25:17 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that is the thing that baffles people like me. Is it appears they did nothing. Just let it play out to its natural end. No spinning up of anything. No we woke everyone up, fired up the birds, get some tankers in the air, get a C-130 turning and some Marines on it. From here it looks like we left them to die. There is no "appears" to it. That's exactly what happened. If those men hadn't survived impossible odds then the narrative about some stupid YouTube video and street protests getting out of hand would have never been exposed. The fact that HRC is still a viable candidate in this country after this (by itself, forgetting the rest of her baggage) is a sad statement for our country. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 12:49:03 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. If there had been air support, even just doing flyovers for presence, the mortar attack would've never happened (IMO- no military experience so it doesn't count for much). I doubt the jihadis would've been out in the open setting up mortar positions with a couple of F-16s on station. Glen and Tyrone would still be alive, Ubben and Oz wouldn't have gotten disfigured. ETA: We also have the benefit of hindsight. At the time they were requesting air support, they didn't know they weren't going to be overrun. Neither did Obama and Clinton. There existed a very real possibility that everyone in that compound was going to be killed, and they did nothing. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 1:00:08 AM EST
[#37]
someones career was more important that saving american citizens...
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Posted: 1/19/2016 1:13:08 AM EST
[#38]
Credits roll... silence... Not one word from anybody, they just walked out.
For a half full theater I was pretty surprised. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 1:27:59 AM EST
[#39]
Best part of attending the movie was a packed movie theater in downtown liberal ville Bay Area CA. I'd be shocked if the liberal lefties campaign doesn't but take total shit now.
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Posted: 1/19/2016 1:41:18 AM EST
[#40]
Megyn Kelly did a pretty good job tonight.
Spent the entire Hour on the movie. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 1:51:35 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there had been air support, even just doing flyovers for presence, the mortar attack would've never happened (IMO- no military experience so it doesn't count for much). I doubt the jihadis would've been out in the open setting up mortar positions with a couple of F-16s on station. Glen and Tyrone would still be alive, Ubben and Oz wouldn't have gotten disfigured. ETA: We also have the benefit of hindsight. At the time they were requesting air support, they didn't know they weren't going to be overrun. Neither did Obama and Clinton. There existed a very real possibility that everyone in that compound was going to be injured, captured, tortured, paraded through the streets, used in propaganda videos, held for ransom, tortured some more, have sensitive gear / intel stolen from them, or be killed, and they did nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. If there had been air support, even just doing flyovers for presence, the mortar attack would've never happened (IMO- no military experience so it doesn't count for much). I doubt the jihadis would've been out in the open setting up mortar positions with a couple of F-16s on station. Glen and Tyrone would still be alive, Ubben and Oz wouldn't have gotten disfigured. ETA: We also have the benefit of hindsight. At the time they were requesting air support, they didn't know they weren't going to be overrun. Neither did Obama and Clinton. There existed a very real possibility that everyone in that compound was going to be injured, captured, tortured, paraded through the streets, used in propaganda videos, held for ransom, tortured some more, have sensitive gear / intel stolen from them, or be killed, and they did nothing. FIFY |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:05:50 AM EST
[#42]
Watched it tonight, 10PM only a few people in the theater. The action scenes were very good, and reminiscent of Blackhawk Down.
I felt sort of numb after the movie, then I remembered those interviews Susan Rice gave that week blaming it on a Youtube video and felt pure anger at the incompetence of our government. Don't forget what our government sold us after they left Americans to die there:
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:24:12 AM EST
[#43]
Here are a couple less-than-stellar reviews on Rotten Tomatoes....This Al Alexander guy is a total tool;
 </a>" />
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:45:05 AM EST
[#44]
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Mullins admits "stand down" order given - ETA - "Hold in Place." WTF? http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2013/09/19/adm-mullen-denies-stand-down-order-given-admits-special-ops-told-to-hold-in-place/ Remember when a different Clinton managed to make the definition of "is" a semantic argument? Imagine what the current Clinton (and others) can do with "Stand Down." |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:52:28 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. Start over again at page 1 (answered). Quoted:
100 troops with weapons and vehicles, now that would have been worth doing. Impractical and would have taken too long...unlike several other possible responses. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:54:13 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Breaking the sound barrier 50 feet above the rooftops can be a deterrent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What would an F16 have done? Stevens was long dead MISSING. And the CIA probably did not want to call in fire on their own position. Breaking the sound barrier 50 feet above the rooftops can be a deterrent. This. Toss out a few flares and you never know... |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:58:00 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that is the thing that baffles people like me. Is it appears they did nothing. Just let it play out to its natural end. No spinning up of anything. No we woke everyone up, fired up the birds, get some tankers in the air, get a C-130 turning and some Marines on it. From here it looks like we left them to die. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Physics problem is a euphemism today, that equates to the tyranny of distance of yesterday. I often hear Cols and Gens say that when they talk about we cannot get there from here in the time required,. In a lot less than 13 hours you could coordinate the dip clearances to get a B-1 and tankers from Qatar to Bengazi. Less time if you pulled a couple of assets off of over Iraq. Hell they could have had jets out of England there in less time if they really cared to let us try. I think that is the thing that baffles people like me. Is it appears they did nothing. Just let it play out to its natural end. No spinning up of anything. No we woke everyone up, fired up the birds, get some tankers in the air, get a C-130 turning and some Marines on it. From here it looks like we left them to die. Haven't seen the movie, "only" the book and the interviews...but that's pretty much how it appears to me on essentially every level, from the supervisors on the ground in Benghazi to the POTUS. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:58:33 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here are a couple less-than-stellar reviews on Rotten Tomatoes....This Al Alexander guy is a total tool; http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo208/grywht/shameful_zpsdac2gsxy.jpg</a>" /> Whenever you hear a guy spout platitudes like "true heroism comes from within", you know he's a pussy. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:00:27 AM EST
[#49]
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The argument is the F16s didn't have the legs to fly direct and do any good. The counter argument is that supposedly they could have fast hopped the F-16s to a closer base, refueled, armed and been on station in 3-4 hours, they could have staggered them and had several making sorties - loaded going out as empty were coming in. I don't know if this is correct, but at least one talking head presented this as a valid option that was not explored. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mullen - Disgraceful - from 19 SEP 2013 testimony LTC Gibson (SOC CDR - AFRICOM) told to "hold in place." ETA: Mullen also said "there was a physics problem with getting air support to Benghazi during the attack." I always though Mullen was a Fred McMurray looking douche. There wasn't a physics problem that the Air Force couldn't have rapidly planned through. It's also interesting that the UAV wasn't able to provide any support itself. The argument is the F16s didn't have the legs to fly direct and do any good. The counter argument is that supposedly they could have fast hopped the F-16s to a closer base, refueled, armed and been on station in 3-4 hours, they could have staggered them and had several making sorties - loaded going out as empty were coming in. I don't know if this is correct, but at least one talking head presented this as a valid option that was not explored. Not arguing either way on the topic...but it is a lot more complex than just having aircraft show up. Will the USAF even talk to the guys on the ground without a JTAC or CCT? Will they drop bombs in a foreign city for people they don't know who don't have an AF call sign and may not even be on the same radio net? How will the ground guys designate targets? If the USAF bombs a bunch of civillians after dropping bombs for people they don't know who dont have a recognized call sign...who is at fault? |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:18:40 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not arguing either way on the topic...but it is a lot more complex than just having aircraft show up. Will the USAF even talk to the guys on the ground without a JTAC or CCT? Will they drop bombs in a foreign city for people they don't know who don't have an AF call sign and may not even be on the same radio net? How will the ground guys designate targets? If the USAF bombs a bunch of civillians after dropping bombs for people they don't know who dont have a recognized call sign...who is at fault? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mullen - Disgraceful - from 19 SEP 2013 testimony LTC Gibson (SOC CDR - AFRICOM) told to "hold in place." ETA: Mullen also said "there was a physics problem with getting air support to Benghazi during the attack." I always though Mullen was a Fred McMurray looking douche. There wasn't a physics problem that the Air Force couldn't have rapidly planned through. It's also interesting that the UAV wasn't able to provide any support itself. The argument is the F16s didn't have the legs to fly direct and do any good. The counter argument is that supposedly they could have fast hopped the F-16s to a closer base, refueled, armed and been on station in 3-4 hours, they could have staggered them and had several making sorties - loaded going out as empty were coming in. I don't know if this is correct, but at least one talking head presented this as a valid option that was not explored. Not arguing either way on the topic...but it is a lot more complex than just having aircraft show up. Will the USAF even talk to the guys on the ground without a JTAC or CCT? Will they drop bombs in a foreign city for people they don't know who don't have an AF call sign and may not even be on the same radio net? How will the ground guys designate targets? If the USAF bombs a bunch of civillians after dropping bombs for people they don't know who dont have a recognized call sign...who is at fault? You can get drop authority from a JATAC certified individual watching the feed off-site. |
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