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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:45:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: P90 is the opposite of useless, best subgun ever. 10.5 AR is better in every respect. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:49:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Is this fake? Cause I like the look of it and kinda want one... ammo availability and cost would be about the only detrimental aspects IF the design is well executed.
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:49:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because they finally expanded production facilities. Kelgren stated for years he wasnt going to take a loan out to expand keltec as he didnt want the extra debt and would expand when they could afford too. I'll buy one to add to my collection of other keltecs i have, that all seem to work fine. Its funny to sit back and laugh at the naysayers who automatically dismiss it because keltec, means less competition when i go to buy one. He didn't think the products were good enough to sell the increased production amounts and pay off any loan years ago? Debt isn't bad if it ultimately makes you more money. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:52:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, in fact they are not. What problems have you had with yours that the factory couldn't fix? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Keltec is junk. No, in fact they are not. What problems have you had with yours that the factory couldn't fix? |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 4:02:39 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: P90 is the opposite of useless, best subgun ever. Why do you say that? Why were they not used by many agencies? I'm also pretty sure that while the standard secret service switched to AR's some of the presidential protection detail still carry p90's I've just never heard anyone say they were the best subgun and was curious as to why you thought that was the case. They definitely fill some niche roles well. Quoted: Agencies are using long arms in an offensive capacity (serving of warrants, liquidation of lunatics.) For that the P90 does not offer any advantage. The P90/PS90's advantage is as a Personal Defense Weapon. Compact, great balance that can be used with one hand, low recoil, huge capacity. With a zero'd red dot, pretty much anyone could fire one easily - my grandma or a 10 year old child could fire one accurately. The primary advantage of it though is for a SHTF weapon where one is forced to leave their house. 5.7x28 weighs 6.5g, 1/2 the weight of 5.56 or 9mm. So you could carry 2x the amount of ammunition. The ammo is also very compact - not much larger then a 50rd pack of .22lr; 100rds can fit in the cargo pocket of a pair of pants; a jacket pocket could fit 200rds. PS90 with Red Dot = 6.6lbs 4x 50rd loaded magazines = 4lbs 500 brick of SS198 = 7.25lbs PS90 + 4x mags + 500rds (700rds total) = 17.85lbs They're good guns and fun to shoot I was just questioning the claim that they were the best subgun. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 6:25:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why though? He didn't think the products were good enough to sell the increased production amounts and pay off any loan years ago? Debt isn't bad if it ultimately makes you more money. From what I heard he didn't trust the government not to ban his product after the first AWB with the stroke of a pen, and therefore was hesitant to borrow. Bet he's glad he didn't design pistol braces right about now. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 6:31:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I heard he didn't trust the government not to ban his product after the first AWB with the stroke of a pen, and therefore was hesitant to borrow. Bet he's glad he didn't design pistol braces right about now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why though? He didn't think the products were good enough to sell the increased production amounts and pay off any loan years ago? Debt isn't bad if it ultimately makes you more money. From what I heard he didn't trust the government not to ban his product after the first AWB with the stroke of a pen, and therefore was hesitant to borrow. Bet he's glad he didn't design pistol braces right about now. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 6:37:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're going to need some strong wrists to shoot that thing.  Just have your wife carry it. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 6:39:06 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do you think Ruger and Taurus got their .380 designs? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why isn’t keltec a design house that passes production on to other, more capable outfits? Cool ideas and designs, horrible production resulting in shit-tier firearms. Where do you think Ruger and Taurus got their .380 designs? I'd laugh, but it's not funny.  I'll bet Kel-tec doesn't even get royalties... |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 6:50:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10.5 AR is better in every respect. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: P90 is the opposite of useless, best subgun ever. 10.5 AR is better in every respect. If you consider longer, heavier, louder, and more difficult to conceal better. For a PDW, the P90 is a great setup. There are better options, but it's still damn good. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 6:51:15 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this fake? Cause I like the look of it and kinda want one... ammo availability and cost would be about the only detrimental aspects IF the design is well executed. Only thing I could find Googling was the photo in the OP and the fact that Kel-Tec has registered P50 as a trademark. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 7:03:38 AM EDT
[#12]
That would be cool if you could put a pistol brace on it.
Oh wait ! |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 9:12:09 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that happened you'd be fucked either way. It already happened to him once! Having your product banned by name really puts a hurting on your business. Having people to pay back makes it much worse |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 10:21:48 AM EDT
[#14]
Joke's on you-- It's not designed to be reloaded :D
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Posted: 12/19/2020 10:21:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10.5 AR is better in every respect. Turn in your avatar Chief, you've lost all your 5.7 cred. 
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Posted: 12/19/2020 10:24:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You lost me at Kel-tec |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:00:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Kel Tec production has ramped up quite a bit over the years.
For the longest time I tried to buy a Sub2K back in the gen 1 days but the few I came across were always over MSRP. After they expanded suddenly gen 2s were everywhere, so I bought one. Have five Kel Tec now. Yes, mostly plastic, not as durable as my other firearms but I’ve had no issues. All fun range toys that haven’t broken or failed When the CP33 came out I found one at my LGS for under MSRP just a few months after it was released. And my PMR, CMR & CP33 have really nice, light trigger pulls for factory. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:02:00 PM EDT
[#18]
It looks like a pain in the ass to reload
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:03:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What comes out first, Kel-Tec P50 or PSA MP5? PSA mp5 will probably never come out. It’s mythical like the unicorn |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:08:28 PM EDT
[#20]
FUCK YEAH, anybody who doesn't love this gun is a retard. Will be first in line to buy one.
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:13:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This... all the kel-tec's I have owned have worked... Most of the people posting this shit are idiots just parroting crap they read online |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:14:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10.5 AR is better in every respect. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: P90 is the opposite of useless, best subgun ever. 10.5 AR is better in every respect. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:18:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agencies are using long arms in an offensive capacity (serving of warrants, liquidation of lunatics.) For that the P90 does not offer any advantage. The P90/PS90's advantage is as a Personal Defense Weapon. Compact, great balance that can be used with one hand, low recoil, huge capacity. With a zero'd red dot, pretty much anyone could fire one easily - my grandma or a 10 year old child could fire one accurately. The primary advantage of it though is for a SHTF weapon where one is forced to leave their house. 5.7x28 weighs 6.5g, 1/2 the weight of 5.56 or 9mm. So you could carry 2x the amount of ammunition. The ammo is also very compact - not much larger then a 50rd pack of .22lr; 100rds can fit in the cargo pocket of a pair of pants; a jacket pocket could fit 200rds. PS90 with Red Dot = 6.6lbs 4x 50rd loaded magazines = 4lbs 500 brick of SS198 = 7.25lbs PS90 + 4x mags + 500rds (700rds total) = 17.85lbs well said |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:18:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've just never heard anyone say they were the best subgun and was curious as to why you thought that was the case. They definitely fill some niche roles well. They're good guns and fun to shoot I was just questioning the claim that they were the best subgun. Most people complain about the round, and options to mount lights aren't great to activate unless you adjust your grip. But it fits in a small briefcase or pack easily, holds 50 rounds, is very controllable, and easily used in many tight positions like from inside a vehicle. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:19:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10.5 AR is better in every respect. Except concealability. No use if you can't take it with you, duh Also follow up shots, firepower, being able to hear and see afterwards. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 12:40:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well....it is Cocoa, shouldn't that be expected? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Exactly this. Used to shoot 2 gun against the Kel Tec assemblers when I worked for a gun company not far down the road. One weekend a guy showed up with his girlfriend dressed in boy shorts and a tube top. Ok, most ARF members would think this is a good thing, except this chick was covered in scabs from the meth use. This was common with most of the guys also, from what I could see. The guys thankfully didn't wear boy shorts and tube tops.  
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Posted: 12/19/2020 1:10:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly this. Used to shoot 2 gun against the Kel Tec assemblers when I worked for a gun company not far down the road. One weekend a guy showed up with his girlfriend dressed in boy shorts and a tube top. Ok, most ARF members would think this is a good thing, except this chick was covered in scabs from the meth use. This was common with most of the guys also, from what I could see. The guys thankfully didn’t wear boy shorts and tube tops. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wish Ruger would hurry up and buy Kel-Tec to use an independent design house. And I'm glad to see somebdy using that P90 magazine... it's an impressive piece of engineering and needs to be used in more applications. I think the real "winner" of the old DoD PDW program should have been the MP7 form factor, but built around the P90 cartridge and magazine. Exactly this. Used to shoot 2 gun against the Kel Tec assemblers when I worked for a gun company not far down the road. One weekend a guy showed up with his girlfriend dressed in boy shorts and a tube top. Ok, most ARF members would think this is a good thing, except this chick was covered in scabs from the meth use. This was common with most of the guys also, from what I could see. The guys thankfully didn’t wear boy shorts and tube tops. What do you expect from the modern firearms industry? It's not like it's a bunch of old skilled craftsman sitting at benches, wearing loupes, and finely fitting parts together. You have some skilled guys operating/maintaining specialized systems like CNC machines and finishing equipment, and everyone else is unskilled manual labor types assembling things with bit drivers and plastic mallets. If you run into anyone from any firearms manufacturing plant, chances are they're not a machinist or gunsmith or something. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 1:13:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This, that thing is gonna be a POS Or it will work, turn out to be pretty cool and they’ll make 10. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 1:14:32 PM EDT
[#29]
That's kinda sexy!
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Posted: 12/19/2020 1:28:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agencies are using long arms in an offensive capacity (serving of warrants, liquidation of lunatics.) For that the P90 does not offer any advantage. The P90/PS90's advantage is as a Personal Defense Weapon. Compact, great balance that can be used with one hand, low recoil, huge capacity. With a zero'd red dot, pretty much anyone could fire one easily - my grandma or a 10 year old child could fire one accurately. The primary advantage of it though is for a SHTF weapon where one is forced to leave their house. 5.7x28 weighs 6.5g, 1/2 the weight of 5.56 or 9mm. So you could carry 2x the amount of ammunition. The ammo is also very compact - not much larger then a 50rd pack of .22lr; 100rds can fit in the cargo pocket of a pair of pants; a jacket pocket could fit 200rds. PS90 with Red Dot = 6.6lbs 4x 50rd loaded magazines = 4lbs 500 brick of SS198 = 7.25lbs PS90 + 4x mags + 500rds (700rds total) = 17.85lbs Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: P90 is the opposite of useless, best subgun ever. Why do you say that? Why were they not used by many agencies? Agencies are using long arms in an offensive capacity (serving of warrants, liquidation of lunatics.) For that the P90 does not offer any advantage. The P90/PS90's advantage is as a Personal Defense Weapon. Compact, great balance that can be used with one hand, low recoil, huge capacity. With a zero'd red dot, pretty much anyone could fire one easily - my grandma or a 10 year old child could fire one accurately. The primary advantage of it though is for a SHTF weapon where one is forced to leave their house. 5.7x28 weighs 6.5g, 1/2 the weight of 5.56 or 9mm. So you could carry 2x the amount of ammunition. The ammo is also very compact - not much larger then a 50rd pack of .22lr; 100rds can fit in the cargo pocket of a pair of pants; a jacket pocket could fit 200rds. PS90 with Red Dot = 6.6lbs 4x 50rd loaded magazines = 4lbs 500 brick of SS198 = 7.25lbs PS90 + 4x mags + 500rds (700rds total) = 17.85lbs |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 1:33:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10.5 AR is better in every respect. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: P90 is the opposite of useless, best subgun ever. 10.5 AR is better in every respect. The AR is more capable, but cannot match the package weight and recoil of a p90. I have both in full auto, its not even close. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 1:35:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've just never heard anyone say they were the best subgun and was curious as to why you thought that was the case. They definitely fill some niche roles well. They're good guns and fun to shoot I was just questioning the claim that they were the best subgun. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 1:46:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This needs to be the official sidearm of Space Force. "Nothing beats a good blaster at your side." 
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Posted: 12/19/2020 1:52:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: P90 is the opposite of useless, best subgun ever. I'll second that. Only hits count, and the p90 is one of the few that doesn't bounce around AT ALL in full auto. The smoothest subgun I have ever fired. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 1:55:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they could have gotten those helical drums to work better and had a better gun design (like a Bizon for example) they'd sell like crazy nowadays. Apparently, they work fine if the user can read and follow instructions:  Calico Liberty 100 Carbine on the PCC Evaluation Course  Calico Reliability Testing: Round #2 |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 2:02:20 PM EDT
[#36]
A VFG and a folding brace and that’d be a nice pistol
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Posted: 12/19/2020 2:27:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10.5 AR is larger in every dimensions, and is also NOT a subgun. why was the XM177 designated a sub machine gun then? |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 2:51:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the people posting this shit are idiots just parroting crap they read online 2 of the 4 are turds. 1 is decent but not reliable enough. 1 is a fucking warlord.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 2:59:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently, they work fine if the user can read and follow instructions:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqhLfEmNuEA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pu1M6ZffiMThey had one of these recently at the LGS. Almost grabbed it but I saw something shinier.
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:07:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2 of the 4 are turds. 1 is decent but not reliable enough. 1 is a fucking warlord. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/78134/PXL_20201219_184848363_jpg-1738501.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Most of the people posting this shit are idiots just parroting crap they read online 2 of the 4 are turds. 1 is decent but not reliable enough. 1 is a fucking warlord. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/78134/PXL_20201219_184848363_jpg-1738501.JPG Anybody who hasn’t shot the CP33 is a convert once they do. 100 rounds of .22 in three mags? Great trigger, accurate, good ergos, what’s not to love? |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:27:31 PM EDT
[#41]
with the barrel and ammo out front I’ll bet it balances like shit...
I’ll take two |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:33:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why though? He didn't think the products were good enough to sell the increased production amounts and pay off any loan years ago? Debt isn't bad if it ultimately makes you more money. Why did Grendel Inc, Kellgren's 1st firearms company, go out of business? Maybe he learned a lesson and refused to make that same mistake when he started KelTec? ...... |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:35:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Keltec P50 in 5.7x28. Takes P90 mags. Must hinge open to reload it seems. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/49519/0C8AE614-B240-466C-A800-6005CBB9E9D5_jpe-1737111.JPG Someone's seen too much Total Recall. 
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:42:48 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:52:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why though? He didn't think the products were good enough to sell the increased production amounts and pay off any loan years ago? Debt isn't bad if it ultimately makes you more money. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because they finally expanded production facilities. Kelgren stated for years he wasnt going to take a loan out to expand keltec as he didnt want the extra debt and would expand when they could afford too. I'll buy one to add to my collection of other keltecs i have, that all seem to work fine. Its funny to sit back and laugh at the naysayers who automatically dismiss it because keltec, means less competition when i go to buy one. He didn't think the products were good enough to sell the increased production amounts and pay off any loan years ago? Debt isn't bad if it ultimately makes you more money. Solvent and debt free is the American dream. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 3:56:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Production rates: 20 per year. Think it will be that high? |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 4:14:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is their biggest problem. They are truly very innovative but their fit and finish and feel is pretty meh. I've fired 4 Keltec's they all functioned, reliably to boot even... but something is weird with their polymer that they use. It feels cheap, like Fisher-Price toy plastic, not what I'm used to when handling other polymer framed guns. My buddy had a P3AT, and a PF9, And I shot another buddy's KSG, and Sub-2000 in .40. The KSG was the only one that was kinda iffy, the pump just felt like shit. I will hand it to them though, they certainly aren't afraid of radical design departure, or innovation. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 4:22:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I photoshopped this together a while back, maybe something like it would be a bit better? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/201992/Screenshot_20200712-081556_7_png-1737626.JPG I keep having this crazy recurring vision of something similar. A simplified version of P90 (except maybe in the little H&K round, since we have it in the inventory). Pared down to nothing but an action and a MRDS.... Grafted onto the sexy new light version of the Carl Gustav 84mm. Kinda like the M203 concept in reverse. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 4:31:57 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I photoshopped this together a while back, maybe something like it would be a bit better? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/201992/Screenshot_20200712-081556_7_png-1737626.JPG  Gonna need room for the bolt to cycle. Physics always gets in the way. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 4:40:17 PM EDT
[#50]
How the fuck do you even load that? Stripper clips?
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