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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:20:20 PM EDT
[#1]
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Tough shit. I pay about $150 monthly plus a $6000 out of pocket max for my health care. Welcome to Obamacare motherfuckers! |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:20:40 PM EDT
[#2]
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I'm not sure where the federal government (NLRB and Department of Labor) derive their powers over this. These are publicly traded companies who should set wages. If an employee doesn't like it, they're free to go somewhere else. 
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:21:47 PM EDT
[#3]
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Imagine if your job was to sit on a hard stool in front of a conveyor line that moved parts by in front of you. Your job was to run an air powered automatically fed screw gun and install 20 000 screws each day. You are not getting $20 an hour because you are a rocket surgeon, you are getting it because of the repetitive movement stress damage you are inflicting on your fingers, wrist, elbow. No way I would want that job. Yet that is exactly what my buddy did at Ford. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:21:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know nothing about whats going on. From my no info point of view I see nothing funny of mocking men fighting for a better work environment and wage. should they just shut up taking less? Everything you dont like is a socialist right? The rights socalist is the lefts nazis. Shits old. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:21:56 PM EDT
[#5]
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Michigan is a right to work state. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Look at it from a logistical standpoint. You have a large plant that plans on opening in the near future and employing 10,000 people. Project managers and HR managers estimate it will cost $1,750,000 dollars to advertise, interview, and process all the applicants to get to an acceptable staffing level. Then add on another $175,000 a year for employee loss and new hires and $500,000,000 for wages/benefits per year. A union comes to the company and offers its services to provide employees who are already familiar with that companies industry at $450,000,000 a year to do all the work/costs previously mentioned. The company runs the numbers the union presented and sees that it will save them approx $50,000,000 dollars a year. Any company would seriously take that option and consider it since companies are in the business of saving/making money. Now you get the govt involved to some extent because once you get to the point of having 10,000 workers employed they govt wants to ensure, as best as they can, the stability of that economy. I think the intention is to prevent a economic catastrophe where all 10,000 workers lose their jobs turning that 10-15 year built up area into a 3rd world shit hole with 10,000 unemployed and a company that has a major effect on the economy unable to produce goods and damaging the market. The bold section.... you're onto something. Auto makers and other manufacturing firms have been moving en masse to right to work states that do not favor unions. That's why the south is growing at a record breaking pace and the north and midwest look like ghost towns. Manufacturing didn't all go overseas, it just had to flee the state to get away from its crazy Your right to work law didn't go into effect until 4 years after the 2008 collapse, and decades after the UAW had pushed much automotive business overseas or to NAFTA. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:22:20 PM EDT
[#6]
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As I wrote, that’s the NLRB whitewash version. GM might win an injunction forcing the UAW back to work since neither side has declared/agreed that there is an impass, but why? They’d be paying for a slowdown or sick out or other union bs. And GM cannot fire UAW strikers. For a true take, you need to read the actual regulations, and maybe some court decisions dealing with them. As I stow earlier, it would take all night to just hit highlights. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thank you. Neither party can be forced to accept terms. Declared an impasse if they cannot agree Company has to pay and the workers have to work during negotiations. Sounds like that isn't happening on either side of GM/Union. GM might win an injunction forcing the UAW back to work since neither side has declared/agreed that there is an impass, but why? They’d be paying for a slowdown or sick out or other union bs. And GM cannot fire UAW strikers. For a true take, you need to read the actual regulations, and maybe some court decisions dealing with them. As I stow earlier, it would take all night to just hit highlights. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:22:38 PM EDT
[#7]
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If I open a company I don't have to employ union workers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So people shouldn't be able to associate with other people or groups freely? And a company’s hands are ever increasingly tied by the NLRB in fighting unionization. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:22:41 PM EDT
[#8]
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Damn, who's paying $40/hr with a pension and platinum health plan to install lug nuts? That sounds like a sweet gig! They hiring? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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These threads are always good for exposing the folks getting paid $40/hr with a pension and platinum health plan to install lug nuts. That sounds like a sweet gig! They hiring? |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:24:06 PM EDT
[#9]
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China laughs during every strike. How many US jobs have been lost to other countries due to businesses not wanting to deal with unions. Why pay people to do half the work, when you can set up a factory in china or Mexico doing 100% for cheaper than to pay a union and politicians. US unions have and continue to kill themselves and because of that it kills towns and entire industries. It's not 1910 anymore and even back then, no one was forced to do the work, it was completely voluntary, unlike in communist countries... |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:25:08 PM EDT
[#10]
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Michigan became a right to work state years after the unions (and the economic collapse they created) did irreparable harm to the state. Your right to work law didn't go into effect until 4 years after the 2008 collapse, and decades after the UAW had pushed much automotive business overseas or to NAFTA. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Look at it from a logistical standpoint. You have a large plant that plans on opening in the near future and employing 10,000 people. Project managers and HR managers estimate it will cost $1,750,000 dollars to advertise, interview, and process all the applicants to get to an acceptable staffing level. Then add on another $175,000 a year for employee loss and new hires and $500,000,000 for wages/benefits per year. A union comes to the company and offers its services to provide employees who are already familiar with that companies industry at $450,000,000 a year to do all the work/costs previously mentioned. The company runs the numbers the union presented and sees that it will save them approx $50,000,000 dollars a year. Any company would seriously take that option and consider it since companies are in the business of saving/making money. Now you get the govt involved to some extent because once you get to the point of having 10,000 workers employed they govt wants to ensure, as best as they can, the stability of that economy. I think the intention is to prevent a economic catastrophe where all 10,000 workers lose their jobs turning that 10-15 year built up area into a 3rd world shit hole with 10,000 unemployed and a company that has a major effect on the economy unable to produce goods and damaging the market. The bold section.... you're onto something. Auto makers and other manufacturing firms have been moving en masse to right to work states that do not favor unions. That's why the south is growing at a record breaking pace and the north and midwest look like ghost towns. Manufacturing didn't all go overseas, it just had to flee the state to get away from its crazy Your right to work law didn't go into effect until 4 years after the 2008 collapse, and decades after the UAW had pushed much automotive business overseas or to NAFTA. Unfortunate that people can’t walk away now in order to send a message. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:26:04 PM EDT
[#11]
We crack on unions on this site all the time because they support Democrats and liberal causes, but GM doesn’t? The bailout they refuse to pay back to the taxpayers was laundered campaign money for Democrats. Maybe there are two bad guys here with the workers caught between the two.
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:27:41 PM EDT
[#12]
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We crack on unions on this site all the time because they support Democrats and liberal causes, but GM doesn’t? The bailout they refuse to pay back to the taxpayers was laundered campaign money for Democrats. Maybe there are two bad guys here with the workers caught between the two. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:27:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know nothing about whats going on. From my no info point of view I see nothing funny of mocking men fighting for a better work environment and wage. should they just shut up taking less? Everything you dont like is a socialist right? The rights socalist is the lefts nazis. Shits old. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:27:46 PM EDT
[#14]
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Until the employees unionize, and then the company has no choice, every employee is represented by the union. And a company’s hands are ever increasingly tied by the NLRB in fighting unionization. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So people shouldn't be able to associate with other people or groups freely? And a company’s hands are ever increasingly tied by the NLRB in fighting unionization. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:28:23 PM EDT
[#15]
This would be a great opportunity for GM to drop the union altogether.
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:28:47 PM EDT
[#16]
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State by state. Some are employee at will and others are right to work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Bullshit, see: Wagner Act as amended by Taft-Hartley. The Union can effectively be imposed on the employer. Some are employee at will and others are right to work. At will merely means a employer can terminate an employee - except where prohibited by NLRB regs, so it’s a circular cluster f—k imposed by the NLRB. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:29:21 PM EDT
[#17]
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Lol, what is their average pay now anyway? |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:29:39 PM EDT
[#18]
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Free market.... work somewhere else. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:29:57 PM EDT
[#19]
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The non-union company I work for pays way better than that. But the unions hate our CEO, because we're not union. In other words, the unions don't care about workers nearly as much as they care about unions. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:29:59 PM EDT
[#20]
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I'm guessing it's an enumerated power in the Constitution falling under the power to 'regulate commerce'...but then I'm not a constitutional scholar. Also, the union is not a government body. Why are they confiscating part of a person's property (i.e., their earnings)? How does a free individual become beholden to a group? No way. That's VERY unamerican. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:31:09 PM EDT
[#21]
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This would be a great opportunity for GM to drop the union altogether. It would be a good time for the big three to work together to destroy it though. The UAW is weak at the moment, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they called a strike for no reason other than a show of strength. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:32:37 PM EDT
[#22]
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But GM can negotiate and if a negotiation cannot be completed they can claim an impasse and move forward. If GM didn't want these problems then they should have hired the UAW and hired people who would do the work on their own. Possibly somebody has a better grasp on the non union employee during a strike thing. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:34:12 PM EDT
[#23]
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Lol, more like fighting to keep themselves hooked up to the feeding tubes as they bleed detroit dry... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I know nothing about whats going on. From my no info point of view I see nothing funny of mocking men fighting for a better work environment and wage. should they just shut up taking less? Everything you dont like is a socialist right? The rights socalist is the lefts nazis. Shits old. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:34:58 PM EDT
[#24]
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Tough shit. I pay about $150 monthly plus a $6000 out of pocket max for my health care. Welcome to Obamacare motherfuckers! |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:35:22 PM EDT
[#25]
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I'm not sure where the federal government (NLRB and Department of Labor) derive their powers over this. These are publicly traded companies who should set wages. If an employee doesn't like it, they're free to go somewhere else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: GM cannot do that, it’s is deemed by the federal gov’t to be an unfair labor practice and a violation of good faith negotiations. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:35:24 PM EDT
[#26]
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I wish they would just hold a hiring conference in another city to replace all these greedy bastards |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:35:58 PM EDT
[#27]
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You are making a lot of assumptions about me that just are not factual. I have not supported the UAW's anything. I have actually brought up varying points about unions and private businesses in general. I don't support them and their shady practices just like I don't support the NRA's shady practices. IMHO if you enter into an agreement you follow the terms you agreed to. Once the agreement terms have been met or the time frame runs out you go through the proper channels, that you agreed to in the first place, to either extend or end appropriately and move on. I don't support the governments involvement in the bailout either just in case you were wondering. IMHO there are two sides to the coin and you have to look at each of them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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@40xb I have a serious question for you, and I hope this doesn't get passed over too quickly, considering how fast the thread is moving. Do you truly support modern unions and all that they stand for (including all of the bad things, such as Democratic donations, bribery, theft, embezzlement, threats, violence, vandalism, assault, etc...), or do you support the idea of unions as they once were, as seen through nostalgia-tinted glasses? You have been very staunch in your support of unions, but I've noticed an interesting similarity in your support of unions when compared to SWIRE's unwavering support from the NRA. In both examples, it seems to me that the idea of a union (or the NRA, in SWIRE's example) somehow means more to you than what the union actually accomplishes. More importantly, this nostalgic idea of what unions mean is somehow able to completely overshadow all of the horrible things they have done in recent history, things that are blatantly obvious to those not blinded by nostalgia. Just as WLP's rampant abuse of NRA funding was often overlooked, ignored, or even excused by the most staunch NRA supporters, the UAW's blatant history of wrongdoing by management (embezzlement, theft, fraud, etc...) never seems to get addressed by you. I understand completely if you truly support the idea of unions, and the ideals that they were intended to represent, but how can you in good conscience support the current UAW, given it's extensive and well-documented history of crooked union bosses, scams, and schemes? How do you justify supporting what is now essentially a criminal organization, and one that goes against our very constitutional rights? To me, the cancer at the top of the UAW is almost identical to the cancer that has consumed the NRA. How anyone can continue to support these organizations while they are rotten to the core is completely beyond me. I support the idea behind both, but only if they are completely purged of the rot and the filth that now consumes them, and then rebuilt to their once proud ideals. Even if the original cause was just, how can one continue to support an organization that is now ran almost entirely by criminals? |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:37:12 PM EDT
[#28]
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Not sure why this is so funny? Fuck them - welcome to the real world. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:38:13 PM EDT
[#29]
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You can’t just drop a union. It would be a good time for the big three to work together to destroy it though. The UAW is weak at the moment, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they called a strike for no reason other than a show of strength. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This would be a great opportunity for GM to drop the union altogether. It would be a good time for the big three to work together to destroy it though. The UAW is weak at the moment, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they called a strike for no reason other than a show of strength. The union isn't doing anything there, the people they extort money from do. Gm can dump the union and keep the people (that is, if they want a job). |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:38:52 PM EDT
[#30]
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Because nobody is entitled to a job. Don’t like the working conditions? Go elsewhere. Striking is for petulant children. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not sure why this is so funny? Don’t like the working conditions? Go elsewhere. Striking is for petulant children. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:39:20 PM EDT
[#31]
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Did you happen to look at the pay scale? Not what I would consider high pay, considering cost of living up there. Seriously, starting at 15 bucks per hour, then hired permanently at 17-25 an hour? I'd be more concerned by the management guys making six, seven, or eight figures plus bonuses. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wish they would just hold a hiring conference in another city to replace all these greedy bastards Just like management's pay. Don't like it? Go work somewhere else. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:41:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know nothing about whats going on. From my no info point of view I see nothing funny of mocking men fighting for a better work environment and wage. should they just shut up taking less? Everything you dont like is a socialist right? The rights socalist is the lefts nazis. Shits old. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:42:00 PM EDT
[#33]
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You are making a lot of assumptions about me that just are not factual. I have not supported the UAW's anything. I have actually brought up varying points about unions and private businesses in general. I don't support them and their shady practices just like I don't support the NRA's shady practices. IMHO if you enter into an agreement you follow the terms you agreed to. Once the agreement terms have been met or the time frame runs out you go through the proper channels, that you agreed to in the first place, to either extend or end appropriately and move on. I don't support the governments involvement in the bailout either just in case you were wondering. IMHO there are two sides to the coin and you have to look at each of them. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:42:34 PM EDT
[#34]
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KY is also a RTW state now, but it doesn't take effect until the next contract starts at these plants. Unfortunate that people can't walk away now in order to send a message. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:43:45 PM EDT
[#35]
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No; as stated I have ZERO info about GM/UAW. Assumed it was just a strike for better work place. Assumed wrong. I don't want to derail this thread so ill just read for info. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: In perfect world, GM could fire people that didn't work. They can't. You telling us that you're okay with type of government interference in the free market? |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:44:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about cut management's pay and put them into the GM retirement plan? If they don't like it, they can... oh, wait. They get taken care of by their buddies on the BoD. 
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:44:23 PM EDT
[#37]
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How old are you? I'm asking because the answer to that question will determine whether you should get a history lesson on communist influences in American labor organizations and unions or if you just get ignored so I don't waste my time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not sure why this is so funny? Do you have a problem with that, comrade? should they just shut up taking less? Everything you dont like is a socialist right? The rights socalist is the lefts nazis. Shits old. I'm asking because the answer to that question will determine whether you should get a history lesson on communist influences in American labor organizations and unions or if you just get ignored so I don't waste my time. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:44:43 PM EDT
[#38]
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And there is the real problem with the whole deal. If people want to unionize, let them unionize. But when the want to strike, they should not have government protection that prevents the company from firing them and hiring people that want to work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wish they would just hold a hiring conference in another city to replace all these greedy bastards |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:45:43 PM EDT
[#39]
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The irony is that ultimately, the union is just another corporation or company. People that organized a corporation, they then negotiated with people and other corporations to that corporations best interests. Like every other corporation. But hey! Hail Corporations!!! Except this particular corporation! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So people shouldn't be able to associate with other people or groups freely? People that organized a corporation, they then negotiated with people and other corporations to that corporations best interests. Like every other corporation. But hey! Hail Corporations!!! Except this particular corporation! |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:45:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Michigan became a right to work state years after the unions (and the economic collapse they created) did irreparable harm to the state. Your right to work law didn't go into effect until 4 years after the 2008 collapse, and decades after the UAW had pushed much automotive business overseas or to NAFTA. BMW build plants here, Toyota has many plants, Subaru, etc They sure seem to make money and employ a lot of people making living wages... |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:45:50 PM EDT
[#41]
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Watch “American Factory” on Netflix and see the caliber of people in the UAW and you’ll marvel at the fact that your tires and doors haven’t fallen off while going around a turn. 
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/16/obamas-first-film-netflix-american-factory-biggest-documentary-2019 |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:45:58 PM EDT
[#42]
The irony is that the H1B scabs that will take the union jobs traveled halfway around the world in search of better working and living conditions, and found them because some fat lazy union workers couldn't be bothered to get off their asses and find a better job two towns over.
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:46:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Federal law trumps state law. Right to work means little in practice. An employer can hire a non union employee, but the union can force the employee to pay union dues (but seek reimbursement for dues used for political purposes) At will merely means a employer can terminate an employee - except where prohibited by NLRB regs, so it's a circular cluster fk imposed by the NLRB. As of 2018, 27 states have adopted right-to-work laws. They are: Alabama Arizona Arkansas Florida Georgia Idaho Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Michigan Mississippi Nebraska Nevada North Carolina North Dakota Oklahoma South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Virginia West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:46:39 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That pay is more than competitive in today's labor market. Just like management's pay. Don't like it? Go work somewhere else.  You can get a job at a fast food place or grocery store making almost that and have better working conditions and hours. Permanent hires are better, but even that isn't enough to make up for the shit hours for the folks you want to hire.
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:46:44 PM EDT
[#45]
I don't get how so many grown men are this emotional / give a shit?
Jealously? I'm not pro or anti union but wow lol |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:48:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: how many people do foriegn automotive makes employee in this country? Honda in employs like 16,000 or more JUST IN OHIO BMW build plants here, Toyota has many plants, Subaru, etc They sure seem to make money and employ a lot of people making living wages... 
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:49:43 PM EDT
[#47]
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Thank you. Neither party can be forced to accept terms. Declared an impasse if they cannot agree Company has to pay and the workers have to work during negotiations. Sounds like that isn't happening on either side of GM/Union. Will be a few weeks most likely before GM makes a 'last offer', and the union goes whining to the NRLB, to kick off the next phase of the process. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:50:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about cut management's pay and put them into the GM retirement plan? If they don't like it, they can... oh, wait. They get taken care of by their buddies on the BoD. Neither do the engineers, data scientists, bankers.... |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:52:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Many here know that a percentage of a UAW workers union dues goes to the democrat party.
Many here do not know that a UAW worker can opt out of paying the percentage that is taken out for this purpose. So not all UAW workers support the democrat party. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 10:52:50 PM EDT
[#50]
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I don't get how so many grown men are this emotional / give a shit? Jealously? I'm not pro or anti union but wow lol It eventually goes bankrupt (or puts the tax payers on the hook at gunpoint to pay for the union's idiotic demands). Yes, I admit, I'm jealous of an outside entity claiming power they don't legitimately have and steering things when they have no right to insert themselves in the first place. |
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