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One of the reasons I jumped on this is because I got all the kits, empennage, fuselage, wing and finish kits for $25K.
No shipping, tax or waiting. And the prices from vans are more than likely to increase in a few weeks when they are done with their internal study. |
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Quoted: You'd be surprised at how many kits are bought "on a whim", especially when you can buy one sub-assembly at a time. I have been asked to look over a number of homebuilts under construction. The quality of workmanship was mostly appalling. But, these guys had been successful in life and felt they were so smart they couldn't possibly fail at building an aircraft, so they bought a kit same as buying another car. They ignored my constructive criticisms, and I was trying to be super polite with them. I once wrote a three page letter detailing all of the obvious problems with a half-done homebuilt project a friend had purchased. Since he was a friend, and not wanting him to burn up in it, I was blunt and went into great detail. I ended with the words "if you try to fly this aircraft, you're going to die." Didn't stop him from wasting hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars before he finally scrapped it. I wasn't about to touch that disaster. I am amazed at the shortcuts and substitutions these guys take. One guy picked up .100 sheets of phenolic for free at work and decided to use them instead of dimpling .019 sheet aluminum. He tried to countersink the 100* rivet holes with a 90* drill bit. Another guy built a two seater and decided he could double his range by replacing the 2nd seat with a 30 gallon plastic soap barrel and plumb it into the fuel system using garden hose and Ace Hardware valves. I asked him what happens when he has a hard landing and that old dry rotted barrel cracks and pours avgas down onto the super hot exhaust directly underneath him. He just gave me a blank stare. I wished he was with me when I watched, up close, a "Grizzly" homebuilt crash land at ABQ and the pilot struggle to get out but was burned to death. It was a fibreglas aircraft and burned hot and fast. By the time the crash crews got their shit together and drove the three miles to the crash site, the only things left were the engine, some steel and charred meat. Riveting is the area where most shortcuts take place, using junk pop rivets from the hardware store, or any solid rivets they can get cheaply, shear strength be damned. Their installation of solids gives one perfect examples of every riveting mistake known to mankind. It ain't easy to begin with, and even though many kit manufacturers have gone to great lengths to make it easier, builders seem to think they are going to do great riveting from day one. I suggest they rivet up a toolbox, a doghouse, anything, to get some experience before tackling the airframe. And the tool suppliers are not helping by selling that crappy hand squeezer as God's gift to homebuilders. Bucking bars and a riveting hammer will do a better job in many places. When I do a large structural repair, word gets around and I get lots of visitors, homebuilders and potential builders, curious to see an aircraft opened up and looking for advice. They are blown away by the vast array of tools I'm using at that moment. 5-10 pneumatic squeezers, 15+ hand squeezers, 30-50 bucking bars, and lots of home-made tools. I'm happy to talk with them, but I've had some tell me I don't need that many tools to do the job. I swear, some of these guys would buy a do-it-yourself brain surgery kit. A good friend, Gene M, had a shop with lots of homebuilders on the field that constant pestered him for free advice and free hardware. His favorite phrase was "Homebuilders are the only people on the planet that can screw up an anvil". I know there have been some really nice homebuilts completed and it is not impossible to build one, but my experiences with these builders has left me picking my jaw up off the floor numerous times. I am absolutely convinced that many of these aircraft/car/boat projects are started mainly as an excuse to get away from the wife for a while, with no serious intention of ever completing them. Oshkosh is a great place to see many beautiful homebuilts. The flip side is the hundreds or thousands of homebuilt projects collecting dust in garages and hangars that will never be finished, because the owner lost interest, ran into financial hardship, had medical problems, realized he was not skilled enough, or screwed up a big assembly and refuses to redo it. I could probably find 20 or more of them at my local fields if I wanted to. I have all the Tony Bingelis books and lots of other homebuilt data. I am not impressed with most of it. These authors try to reduce the build process down to something as simple as building a go cart, giving builders a false sense of hope. Some of the videos on youtube are okay, but I find many of them are the blind leading the blind. Well, now that I have royally pissed off every homebuilder on arfcom, I'll say goodnite. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I remember watching a TV series, maybe on PBS, where a guy started building a kit plane. It went downhill fast. The fiberglass looked like shit and he eventually put on a Jason mask and took a chainsaw to the kit. I would have fun building one. Like I need another hobby. Edit- just looked at kits. Thank christ they are expensive enough to not buy on a whim. You'd be surprised at how many kits are bought "on a whim", especially when you can buy one sub-assembly at a time. I have been asked to look over a number of homebuilts under construction. The quality of workmanship was mostly appalling. But, these guys had been successful in life and felt they were so smart they couldn't possibly fail at building an aircraft, so they bought a kit same as buying another car. They ignored my constructive criticisms, and I was trying to be super polite with them. I once wrote a three page letter detailing all of the obvious problems with a half-done homebuilt project a friend had purchased. Since he was a friend, and not wanting him to burn up in it, I was blunt and went into great detail. I ended with the words "if you try to fly this aircraft, you're going to die." Didn't stop him from wasting hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars before he finally scrapped it. I wasn't about to touch that disaster. I am amazed at the shortcuts and substitutions these guys take. One guy picked up .100 sheets of phenolic for free at work and decided to use them instead of dimpling .019 sheet aluminum. He tried to countersink the 100* rivet holes with a 90* drill bit. Another guy built a two seater and decided he could double his range by replacing the 2nd seat with a 30 gallon plastic soap barrel and plumb it into the fuel system using garden hose and Ace Hardware valves. I asked him what happens when he has a hard landing and that old dry rotted barrel cracks and pours avgas down onto the super hot exhaust directly underneath him. He just gave me a blank stare. I wished he was with me when I watched, up close, a "Grizzly" homebuilt crash land at ABQ and the pilot struggle to get out but was burned to death. It was a fibreglas aircraft and burned hot and fast. By the time the crash crews got their shit together and drove the three miles to the crash site, the only things left were the engine, some steel and charred meat. Riveting is the area where most shortcuts take place, using junk pop rivets from the hardware store, or any solid rivets they can get cheaply, shear strength be damned. Their installation of solids gives one perfect examples of every riveting mistake known to mankind. It ain't easy to begin with, and even though many kit manufacturers have gone to great lengths to make it easier, builders seem to think they are going to do great riveting from day one. I suggest they rivet up a toolbox, a doghouse, anything, to get some experience before tackling the airframe. And the tool suppliers are not helping by selling that crappy hand squeezer as God's gift to homebuilders. Bucking bars and a riveting hammer will do a better job in many places. When I do a large structural repair, word gets around and I get lots of visitors, homebuilders and potential builders, curious to see an aircraft opened up and looking for advice. They are blown away by the vast array of tools I'm using at that moment. 5-10 pneumatic squeezers, 15+ hand squeezers, 30-50 bucking bars, and lots of home-made tools. I'm happy to talk with them, but I've had some tell me I don't need that many tools to do the job. I swear, some of these guys would buy a do-it-yourself brain surgery kit. A good friend, Gene M, had a shop with lots of homebuilders on the field that constant pestered him for free advice and free hardware. His favorite phrase was "Homebuilders are the only people on the planet that can screw up an anvil". I know there have been some really nice homebuilts completed and it is not impossible to build one, but my experiences with these builders has left me picking my jaw up off the floor numerous times. I am absolutely convinced that many of these aircraft/car/boat projects are started mainly as an excuse to get away from the wife for a while, with no serious intention of ever completing them. Oshkosh is a great place to see many beautiful homebuilts. The flip side is the hundreds or thousands of homebuilt projects collecting dust in garages and hangars that will never be finished, because the owner lost interest, ran into financial hardship, had medical problems, realized he was not skilled enough, or screwed up a big assembly and refuses to redo it. I could probably find 20 or more of them at my local fields if I wanted to. I have all the Tony Bingelis books and lots of other homebuilt data. I am not impressed with most of it. These authors try to reduce the build process down to something as simple as building a go cart, giving builders a false sense of hope. Some of the videos on youtube are okay, but I find many of them are the blind leading the blind. Well, now that I have royally pissed off every homebuilder on arfcom, I'll say goodnite. I agree with one comment. I see one mistake from this master sheet metal guy; I want to see the source of 0.019 inch thick aluminum sheet stock. I also read a load of bullshit about tools in another comment. Fiberglass and carbon fiber airplanes that burn leave behind a pile of fiber with the matrix burned out in addition to metal bits and pieces. A high degree of craftsmanship is desirable, and needed, so we agree on that point. Some repairs are tough, and are tougher when there's a need to fabricate from scratch. A commercial shop ain't making money by making more than trivial flat patches for minor holes. Restoration shops are a whole different story. If AC-43 is your bible, and that's about the only guide mechanics in the US get for repair work in the field without factory aid, it's not adequate for all work. I've worked with incredibly capable mechanics, and a far greater number with one year of experience 30 times over that royally screwed up structure and mechanism parts, either because they freelanced and refused to follow a process, or because they simply weren't capable. |
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Quoted: One of the reasons I jumped on this is because I got all the kits, empennage, fuselage, wing and finish kits for $25K. No shipping, tax or waiting. And the prices from vans are more than likely to increase in a few weeks when they are done with their internal study. View Quote I was glad that the lcp condition wasn't concealed. You'll have a great airplane. |
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Quoted: One of the reasons I jumped on this is because I got all the kits, empennage, fuselage, wing and finish kits for $25K. No shipping, tax or waiting. And the prices from vans are more than likely to increase in a few weeks when they are done with their internal study. View Quote Was wondering what you paid for all the kits. I have a RV-7 project I am thinking about selling. The wings and tail feathers are completed with bottom skins needing riveted on the wings. I received the fuselage kit after a year and half of waiting from Van’s. There are some LCP that Van’s has sent me a list of which parts they will replace. The fuselage has not been riveted yet except for the firewall parts, so no disassembly to replace parts. The fuselage is at a stage the next builder can make it a RV7 or RV7A as they wish. I was originally going 7A for insurance costs but have since bought a Aeronca Chief and gained my TW endorsement and building TW time for insurance cost reduction. So if I continued the build, I would go tailwheel (RV-7). The finish kit is due to ship December/January per Van’s so if I sell, the new owner can pay the finish kit balance and not wait a year or two for finish kit. I also ordered and received the interior trim and seats from vendor in anticipation of long delays. I had hoped to be semi-retired to spend more time on the build but as a biz owner and this economy, my focus has been making sure the business stays healthy and families of employees have food on the table. |
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Quoted: Well, If you're near ABQ and need a little help, drop me an email. I have 30 years of aircraft structural repair and about $100,000 in associated tools. Currently rebuilding a bad wreck to fly again. I generally don't get involved in these type projects because my 30 years usually doesn't mean squat to newby builders that watched a few videos on the internet. Beware the EAA. Lots of good intentions but it is often the blind leading the blind. Completing a single homebuilt doesn't make anyone an expert in anything regarding aircraft construction. I know unsolicited advice is rarely appreciated, but here's some anyway. Stick to the factory plan. I cringe when I hear homebuilders talk about the modifications they are doing to various systems without consulting experts first. They are Darwin's choice to have the words "burned beyond recognition" in their obituary. There are a lot of hack A&P aircraft mechanics out there. Half my work is fixing their screw ups and illegal repairs. Don't be impressed with that certification. If you bring in a ringer to help on the build, keep your BS detector on and ask lots of questions. If he only has basic sheet metal tools, he is probably not going to be much more help than the wife or kids. And if he has mainly worked on large jets, he will be damn near useless on your project. Pay accordingly. Good Luck. View Quote |
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Quoted: Be prepared to make many small brackets from raw stock, OP. I almost bought an RV-9, and even have the plans, but I went with a Sling2. Everything on the Sling is CNC'ed, all of the small brackets are made, and if the parts don't match up, you're assembling it wrong. I took delivery of my kit in late April of 2023, and started building in early May. I have the empennage and wings complete, and am working on the rear fuselage now. I should have that done in about two weeks. I schedule tech counselor visits before I close up anything, and have EAA Chapter members come to check everything to possibly catch something I might have missed. The more eyes that look at it, the better. One of the reasons I liked the RVs, is that you can save a lot of money by purchasing a kit from someone who never started it or stopped part way. The RVs are good planes, but it takes a lot of time to build one, and I'm not 30 years old anymore. I'll probably have the Sling2 complete by this time next year, or close to that time frame. View Quote And if you don't have an air compressor, you'll need one and DON'T get the oil-free type - they are loud as hell. |
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Quoted: You'd be surprised at how many kits are bought "on a whim", especially when you can buy one sub-assembly at a time. I have been asked to look over a number of homebuilts under construction. The quality of workmanship was mostly appalling. But, these guys had been successful in life and felt they were so smart they couldn't possibly fail at building an aircraft, so they bought a kit same as buying another car. They ignored my constructive criticisms, and I was trying to be super polite with them. I once wrote a three page letter detailing all of the obvious problems with a half-done homebuilt project a friend had purchased. Since he was a friend, and not wanting him to burn up in it, I was blunt and went into great detail. I ended with the words "if you try to fly this aircraft, you're going to die." Didn't stop him from wasting hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars before he finally scrapped it. I wasn't about to touch that disaster. I am amazed at the shortcuts and substitutions these guys take. One guy picked up .100 sheets of phenolic for free at work and decided to use them instead of dimpling .019 sheet aluminum. He tried to countersink the 100* rivet holes with a 90* drill bit. Another guy built a two seater and decided he could double his range by replacing the 2nd seat with a 30 gallon plastic soap barrel and plumb it into the fuel system using garden hose and Ace Hardware valves. I asked him what happens when he has a hard landing and that old dry rotted barrel cracks and pours avgas down onto the super hot exhaust directly underneath him. He just gave me a blank stare. I wished he was with me when I watched, up close, a "Grizzly" homebuilt crash land at ABQ and the pilot struggle to get out but was burned to death. It was a fibreglas aircraft and burned hot and fast. By the time the crash crews got their shit together and drove the three miles to the crash site, the only things left were the engine, some steel and charred meat. Riveting is the area where most shortcuts take place, using junk pop rivets from the hardware store, or any solid rivets they can get cheaply, shear strength be damned. Their installation of solids gives one perfect examples of every riveting mistake known to mankind. It ain't easy to begin with, and even though many kit manufacturers have gone to great lengths to make it easier, builders seem to think they are going to do great riveting from day one. I suggest they rivet up a toolbox, a doghouse, anything, to get some experience before tackling the airframe. And the tool suppliers are not helping by selling that crappy hand squeezer as God's gift to homebuilders. Bucking bars and a riveting hammer will do a better job in many places. When I do a large structural repair, word gets around and I get lots of visitors, homebuilders and potential builders, curious to see an aircraft opened up and looking for advice. They are blown away by the vast array of tools I'm using at that moment. 5-10 pneumatic squeezers, 15+ hand squeezers, 30-50 bucking bars, and lots of home-made tools. I'm happy to talk with them, but I've had some tell me I don't need that many tools to do the job. I swear, some of these guys would buy a do-it-yourself brain surgery kit. A good friend, Gene M, had a shop with lots of homebuilders on the field that constant pestered him for free advice and free hardware. His favorite phrase was "Homebuilders are the only people on the planet that can screw up an anvil". I know there have been some really nice homebuilts completed and it is not impossible to build one, but my experiences with these builders has left me picking my jaw up off the floor numerous times. I am absolutely convinced that many of these aircraft/car/boat projects are started mainly as an excuse to get away from the wife for a while, with no serious intention of ever completing them. Oshkosh is a great place to see many beautiful homebuilts. The flip side is the hundreds or thousands of homebuilt projects collecting dust in garages and hangars that will never be finished, because the owner lost interest, ran into financial hardship, had medical problems, realized he was not skilled enough, or screwed up a big assembly and refuses to redo it. I could probably find 20 or more of them at my local fields if I wanted to. I have all the Tony Bingelis books and lots of other homebuilt data. I am not impressed with most of it. These authors try to reduce the build process down to something as simple as building a go cart, giving builders a false sense of hope. Some of the videos on youtube are okay, but I find many of them are the blind leading the blind. Well, now that I have royally pissed off every homebuilder on arfcom, I'll say goodnite. View Quote |
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Quoted: Yeah, stick to the factory plan. Make it simple, make it light. Even without any safety issues, you'll spend more time on it and it will probably be heavier if you do mods. View Quote Most RV’s that I have worked on were in the 1100 to 1150 pound range. I pissed off a lot of my RV friends when mine came in at 1050. |
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Quoted: I want to see the source of 0.019 inch thick aluminum sheet stock. View Quote https://www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Building-Products-24-in-x-36-in-Plain-Aluminum-Sheet-in-Silver-57794/202091743 I had wondered where a Cherokee owner had found the metal he used to make a replacement engine baffle. |
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Quoted: https://www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Building-Products-24-in-x-36-in-Plain-Aluminum-Sheet-in-Silver-57794/202091743 I had wondered where a Cherokee owner had found the metal he used to make a replacement engine baffle. View Quote Well, Ya gotta give him some credit. At least he used sheet aluminum. As opposed to cutting up the nose of your aircraft to install a huge landing light, then using foil tape to try keeping everything from coming apart. |
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Just about finished working on an RV6. I should have it all back together tomorrow.
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Quoted: Well, Ya gotta give him some credit. At least he used sheet aluminum. As opposed to cutting up the nose of your aircraft to install a huge landing light, then using foil tape to try keeping everything from coming apart. https://i.postimg.cc/k486rtzK/IMG-20220908-140041.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: https://www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Building-Products-24-in-x-36-in-Plain-Aluminum-Sheet-in-Silver-57794/202091743 I had wondered where a Cherokee owner had found the metal he used to make a replacement engine baffle. Well, Ya gotta give him some credit. At least he used sheet aluminum. As opposed to cutting up the nose of your aircraft to install a huge landing light, then using foil tape to try keeping everything from coming apart. https://i.postimg.cc/k486rtzK/IMG-20220908-140041.jpg It's silver finish aluminum sheet, so that's different. Makes me wonder if it was stretched to work harden. |
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@Guns762 has some students who would love helping you rivet.
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When you get to wiring avionics please be more competent than calling my tech support line asking me where the wire marked GPS 14vdc;5a goes
ETA: No I don't work at SteinAir |
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View Quote Nice work! |
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Quoted: Was wondering what you paid for all the kits. I have a RV-7 project I am thinking about selling. The wings and tail feathers are completed with bottom skins needing riveted on the wings. I received the fuselage kit after a year and half of waiting from Van’s. There are some LCP that Van’s has sent me a list of which parts they will replace. The fuselage has not been riveted yet except for the firewall parts, so no disassembly to replace parts. The fuselage is at a stage the next builder can make it a RV7 or RV7A as they wish. I was originally going 7A for insurance costs but have since bought a Aeronca Chief and gained my TW endorsement and building TW time for insurance cost reduction. So if I continued the build, I would go tailwheel (RV-7). The finish kit is due to ship December/January per Van’s so if I sell, the new owner can pay the finish kit balance and not wait a year or two for finish kit. I also ordered and received the interior trim and seats from vendor in anticipation of long delays. I had hoped to be semi-retired to spend more time on the build but as a biz owner and this economy, my focus has been making sure the business stays healthy and families of employees have food on the table. View Quote Have a quick build fuse for an rv-6a wings and emp. No finishing kit. They honestly don't bring much.unless completed and flown. |
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