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Posted: 2/17/2014 8:18:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We had a guy with a claimed 25 years of experience. He may have been telling the truth, he was damn good with a lathe. He had to be shown how to read a vernier caliper.  He said he had always used dial calipers. Our shop only had dial calipers up to 24". He knew how to read a mic so it only took a second, just thought it was strange he could not figure it out on his own. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: hand them an vernier caliper and ask them to read it. We had a guy with a claimed 25 years of experience. He may have been telling the truth, he was damn good with a lathe. He had to be shown how to read a vernier caliper. He said he had always used dial calipers. Our shop only had dial calipers up to 24". He knew how to read a mic so it only took a second, just thought it was strange he could not figure it out on his own. I've been a machinist for over 23 years. I have worked in many shops and only had to use a tool that used the vernier scale once. It was a 36" caliper and I only had to use it once due to the dial caliper was being calibrated. I had learned how to read vernier way back in tech school, but it definitely took a little staring at to refresh my memory. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 8:21:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We damn near had to confiscate them from the Industrial Engineer the company hired as an inspector (Owners son). He was rejecting parts because he did not zero the damn things correctly. 
When I left he was still trying to implement that lean manufacturing black belt shit. He said we were wasting time by finishing all shafts on one side, then finishing them on the other side. He said we needed to completely finish each shaft, one at a time.
This was for manual AND CNC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's a good one. Another is to hand them a 1" mic and piece of round bar. See if they hold the mic properly or if they act like they wish they had three hands. I'm currently teaching machine shop. After observing some of the students, I confiscated everyone's digital calipers. It was pretty obvious no one was going to actually learn how to read a mic as long as they could use a digital caliper. We damn near had to confiscate them from the Industrial Engineer the company hired as an inspector (Owners son). He was rejecting parts because he did not zero the damn things correctly.
When I left he was still trying to implement that lean manufacturing black belt shit. He said we were wasting time by finishing all shafts on one side, then finishing them on the other side. He said we needed to completely finish each shaft, one at a time.
This was for manual AND CNC. Lean for the sake of lean is nonsensical at best and harmful to the company at worst. You should have countered, "No, we just need another TC so we can do both ends at the same time." mindblown Actually, that was one of my first machining jobs. Making motor shafts for Leeson Electric motors in a beat ass old pair of Mazak QT15s. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 8:22:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been a machinist for over 23 years. I have worked in many shops and only had to use a tool that used the vernier scale once. It was a 36" caliper and I only had to use it once due to the dial caliper was being calibrated. I had learned how to read vernier way back in tech school, but it definitely took a little staring at to refresh my memory. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
hand them an vernier caliper and ask them to read it. We had a guy with a claimed 25 years of experience. He may have been telling the truth, he was damn good with a lathe. He had to be shown how to read a vernier caliper.
He said he had always used dial calipers. Our shop only had dial calipers up to 24". He knew how to read a mic so it only took a second, just thought it was strange he could not figure it out on his own. I've been a machinist for over 23 years. I have worked in many shops and only had to use a tool that used the vernier scale once. It was a 36" caliper and I only had to use it once due to the dial caliper was being calibrated. I had learned how to read vernier way back in tech school, but it definitely took a little staring at to refresh my memory. I figure that was the same situation with this guy. He knew everything else well. My first 24" calipers were vernier because I could not afford 24" dial calipers. 
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Posted: 2/17/2014 8:25:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lean for the sake of lean is nonsensical at best and harmful to the company at worst. You should have countered, "No, we just need another TC so we can do both ends at the same time." mindblown Actually, that was one of my first machining jobs. Making motor shafts for Leeson Electric motors in a beat ass old pair of Mazak QT15s. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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That's a good one. Another is to hand them a 1" mic and piece of round bar. See if they hold the mic properly or if they act like they wish they had three hands. I'm currently teaching machine shop. After observing some of the students, I confiscated everyone's digital calipers. It was pretty obvious no one was going to actually learn how to read a mic as long as they could use a digital caliper. We damn near had to confiscate them from the Industrial Engineer the company hired as an inspector (Owners son). He was rejecting parts because he did not zero the damn things correctly.
When I left he was still trying to implement that lean manufacturing black belt shit. He said we were wasting time by finishing all shafts on one side, then finishing them on the other side. He said we needed to completely finish each shaft, one at a time.
This was for manual AND CNC. Lean for the sake of lean is nonsensical at best and harmful to the company at worst. You should have countered, "No, we just need another TC so we can do both ends at the same time." mindblown Actually, that was one of my first machining jobs. Making motor shafts for Leeson Electric motors in a beat ass old pair of Mazak QT15s. That suggestion went over his head. He did not want to tie up another machinist because he could be working on another order.
These were high speed shafts for pump jacks. 
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Posted: 2/17/2014 8:33:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That should be easy enough to handle. Make everything +.001 -.000 and let them measure with whatever their little hearts desire  Tolerances is something else I am pushing hard on. Just because it looks like the print doesn't mean it's worth a damn. It actually has to be in tolerance. They are on their 4th project and the loosest tolerance is +/-.01" for the OAL, everything else is +/-.005" or less. And I better not ever catch anyone measuring a +/-.005" dimension with a caliper.  |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 8:52:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That suggestion went over his head. He did not want to tie up another machinist because he could be working on another order.
These were high speed shafts for pump jacks. https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/404803_3031091508501_1491169768_n.jpg https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t31/219965_1883610822201_7786743_o.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's a good one. Another is to hand them a 1" mic and piece of round bar. See if they hold the mic properly or if they act like they wish they had three hands. I'm currently teaching machine shop. After observing some of the students, I confiscated everyone's digital calipers. It was pretty obvious no one was going to actually learn how to read a mic as long as they could use a digital caliper. We damn near had to confiscate them from the Industrial Engineer the company hired as an inspector (Owners son). He was rejecting parts because he did not zero the damn things correctly.
When I left he was still trying to implement that lean manufacturing black belt shit. He said we were wasting time by finishing all shafts on one side, then finishing them on the other side. He said we needed to completely finish each shaft, one at a time.
This was for manual AND CNC. Lean for the sake of lean is nonsensical at best and harmful to the company at worst. You should have countered, "No, we just need another TC so we can do both ends at the same time." mindblown Actually, that was one of my first machining jobs. Making motor shafts for Leeson Electric motors in a beat ass old pair of Mazak QT15s. That suggestion went over his head. He did not want to tie up another machinist because he could be working on another order.
These were high speed shafts for pump jacks. https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/404803_3031091508501_1491169768_n.jpg https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t31/219965_1883610822201_7786743_o.jpg I haven't hobbed a gear in a decade. Wished I had a hobber in my current job more than once. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 8:53:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I was very upfront about having no experience but mentioned how I am very eager to learn and everything in this field is completely new to me, I just don't want to walk in lost. Attitude is everything. If a person has the desire to learn, and is willing to listen, you can teach them anything. Take lots of notes. Writing stuff down helps it get in your brain, it also allows you to go back and review it to make sure you understand it. When I was a supervisor and training people, I would show them how to do something on a machine no more than two separate times. If they came back asking again they better be able to produce some notes we could go over and figure out what step they failed to write down. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 9:16:53 PM EDT
[#8]
You didn't say what the company manufactures or the kind of work they do.
Since they are looking at you as a trainee, they aren't going to expect a great deal from you. Dress more or less like you would if you worked there. Wear CLEAN decent clothing. Jeans, buttoned down casual shirt ( make sure it is tucked in ), and work boots. Don't show up in shorts and sandals. Get a haircut, shave, brush your teeth..... looked groomed and neat. Don't speak like an idiot or use slang, look people in the eye, answer questions honestly, don't curse, act like you were raised to show people respect. Know how to use a scale ( ruler ) and read and give dimensions properly. I once had a kid say " one line past 9 inches" to me when I asked him for a measurement........don't do that. Take some time to look at and learn how to read a 0-1 mic and a set of dial calipers...... both easy to read. Math skills should include simple addition,subtraction, division, multiplication...... fractions and their decimal equivalents..... Trig and knowing how to calculate angles and bolt circles.... some geometry etc. All high school stuff that you should know. Print reading should be simple stuff. Again, since you told them you know nothing I wouldn't expect them to give you anything complicated. Learn what a center line looks like, what a hidden line looks like, what overall length means is, etc. Just basic stuff. Learn some basic machining terms ...... there are several good books available. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 9:21:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You didn't say what the company manufactures or the kind of work they do. Since they are looking at you as a trainee, they aren't going to expect a great deal from you. Dress more or less like you would if you worked there. Wear CLEAN decent clothing. Jeans, buttoned down casual shirt ( make sure it is tucked in ), and work boots. Don't show up in shorts and sandals. Get a haircut, shave, brush your teeth..... looked groomed and neat. Don't speak like an idiot or use slang, look people in the eye, answer questions honestly, don't curse, act like you were raised to show people respect. Know how to use a scale ( ruler ) and read and give dimensions properly. I once had a kid say " one line past 9 inches" to me when I asked him for a measurement........don't do that. Take some time to look at and learn how to read a 0-1 mic and a set of dial calipers...... both easy to read. Math skills should include simple addition,subtraction, division, multiplication...... fractions and their decimal equivalents..... Trig and knowing how to calculate angles and bolt circles.... some geometry etc. Print reading should be simple stuff. Again, since you told them you know nothing I wouldn't expect them to give you anything complicated. Learn what a center line looks like, what a hidden line looks like, what overall length means is, etc. Just basic stuff. Learn some basic machining terms ...... there are several good books available. No slang? In a machine shop? RCH? KA? Chatter? Precission C-Clamp? Government work? Hogging? Bird Dog? All these should get bonus points in an interview!
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Posted: 2/17/2014 9:24:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If their math skill assessment tests are anything like the one I use for prospects it will contain basic geometry, some trigonometry, fraction to decimal conversions and metrics. Blueprint reading is different altogether and is not as standardized as it used to be and should be IMHO. If you have had any technical drawing classes you should be able to stumble through a blueprint reading assessment but that does not mean you will be proficient at their particular type of drawings until you become accustomed to their interpretation. My business is a job shop and we get drawings and models in from a lot of different customers and few of them follow the same format; commercial aviation drawing are vastly different from automotive for example. New hires, usually even experienced ones, always need supplemental training on correct drawing interpretation and geometric dimensioning. Boy that's the truth...... seems like there is ZERO standardization in prints today. I have seen some REALLY screwed up prints. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 9:25:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boy that's the truth...... seems like there is ZERO standardization in prints today. I have seen some REALLY screwed up prints. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If their math skill assessment tests are anything like the one I use for prospects it will contain basic geometry, some trigonometry, fraction to decimal conversions and metrics. Blueprint reading is different altogether and is not as standardized as it used to be and should be IMHO. If you have had any technical drawing classes you should be able to stumble through a blueprint reading assessment but that does not mean you will be proficient at their particular type of drawings until you become accustomed to their interpretation. My business is a job shop and we get drawings and models in from a lot of different customers and few of them follow the same format; commercial aviation drawing are vastly different from automotive for example. New hires, usually even experienced ones, always need supplemental training on correct drawing interpretation and geometric dimensioning. Boy that's the truth...... seems like there is ZERO standardization in prints today. I have seen some REALLY screwed up prints. One shop I worked at did not have the surface finish marked on any prints.
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Posted: 2/17/2014 9:27:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No slang? In a machine shop? RCH? KA? Chatter? Precission C-Clamp? Government work? Hogging? Bird Dog? All these should get bonus points in an interview! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You didn't say what the company manufactures or the kind of work they do. Since they are looking at you as a trainee, they aren't going to expect a great deal from you. Dress more or less like you would if you worked there. Wear CLEAN decent clothing. Jeans, buttoned down casual shirt ( make sure it is tucked in ), and work boots. Don't show up in shorts and sandals. Get a haircut, shave, brush your teeth..... looked groomed and neat. Don't speak like an idiot or use slang, look people in the eye, answer questions honestly, don't curse, act like you were raised to show people respect. Know how to use a scale ( ruler ) and read and give dimensions properly. I once had a kid say " one line past 9 inches" to me when I asked him for a measurement........don't do that. Take some time to look at and learn how to read a 0-1 mic and a set of dial calipers...... both easy to read. Math skills should include simple addition,subtraction, division, multiplication...... fractions and their decimal equivalents..... Trig and knowing how to calculate angles and bolt circles.... some geometry etc. Print reading should be simple stuff. Again, since you told them you know nothing I wouldn't expect them to give you anything complicated. Learn what a center line looks like, what a hidden line looks like, what overall length means is, etc. Just basic stuff. Learn some basic machining terms ...... there are several good books available. No slang? In a machine shop? RCH? KA? Chatter? Precission C-Clamp? Government work? Hogging? Bird Dog? All these should get bonus points in an interview! LOL!! He can fit in AFTER he gets the job. I once sent a kid to the tool crib for a pint of pussy grease..... off he went. When he came back, he looked like he was going to cry and guys that were there were pissing themselves laughing. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 9:30:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL!! He can fit in AFTER he gets the job. I once sent a kid to the tool crib for a pint of pussy grease..... off he went. When he came back, he looked like he was going to cry and guys that were there were pissing themselves laughing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You didn't say what the company manufactures or the kind of work they do. Since they are looking at you as a trainee, they aren't going to expect a great deal from you. Dress more or less like you would if you worked there. Wear CLEAN decent clothing. Jeans, buttoned down casual shirt ( make sure it is tucked in ), and work boots. Don't show up in shorts and sandals. Get a haircut, shave, brush your teeth..... looked groomed and neat. Don't speak like an idiot or use slang, look people in the eye, answer questions honestly, don't curse, act like you were raised to show people respect. Know how to use a scale ( ruler ) and read and give dimensions properly. I once had a kid say " one line past 9 inches" to me when I asked him for a measurement........don't do that. Take some time to look at and learn how to read a 0-1 mic and a set of dial calipers...... both easy to read. Math skills should include simple addition,subtraction, division, multiplication...... fractions and their decimal equivalents..... Trig and knowing how to calculate angles and bolt circles.... some geometry etc. Print reading should be simple stuff. Again, since you told them you know nothing I wouldn't expect them to give you anything complicated. Learn what a center line looks like, what a hidden line looks like, what overall length means is, etc. Just basic stuff. Learn some basic machining terms ...... there are several good books available. No slang? In a machine shop? RCH? KA? Chatter? Precission C-Clamp? Government work? Hogging? Bird Dog? All these should get bonus points in an interview! LOL!! He can fit in AFTER he gets the job. I once sent a kid to the tool crib for a pint of pussy grease..... off he went. When he came back, he looked like he was going to cry and guys that were there were pissing themselves laughing. I sent a guy for a left handed screwdriver and a metric crescent wrench. Fucker came back with a metric crescent wrench.
Had to retire that one. Still use striped paint, pipe stretcher, and a Ship's sea going level. 
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Posted: 2/17/2014 9:35:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:I sent a guy for a left handed screwdriver and a metric crescent wrench.
Fucker came back with a metric crescent wrench.
Had to retire that one. Still use striped paint, pipe stretcher, and a Ship's sea going level. http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/Photos/tools/hit_adj_200mm_wrench_crmo_strong_jis_f_cropped_inset2.jpg That's a good one. I would have given the guy credit and a pat on the back. Not many guys would have found or had a "metric" crescent wrench. I would have laughed like hell. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 9:44:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a good one. I would have given the guy credit and a pat on the back. Not many guys would have found or had a "metric" crescent wrench. I would have laughed like hell. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:I sent a guy for a left handed screwdriver and a metric crescent wrench.
Fucker came back with a metric crescent wrench.
Had to retire that one. Still use striped paint, pipe stretcher, and a Ship's sea going level. http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/Photos/tools/hit_adj_200mm_wrench_crmo_strong_jis_f_cropped_inset2.jpg That's a good one. I would have given the guy credit and a pat on the back. Not many guys would have found or had a "metric" crescent wrench. I would have laughed like hell. I laughed. He was not too happy when he found out why I was laughing. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 9:55:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryThis is what i was going to post. Learn it |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 3:22:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3" standard? Now I'll show my rookie stripes... Never heard of one of those. (At least not by that name) I told a new guy to ask the supervisor what drawer he kept the hole shrinker in. He thought about it. :) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Hole shrinker= Appropriately sized ball bearing and a hammer. 
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Posted: 2/18/2014 3:29:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been a machinist for over 23 years. I have worked in many shops and only had to use a tool that used the vernier scale once. It was a 36" caliper and I only had to use it once due to the dial caliper was being calibrated. I had learned how to read vernier way back in tech school, but it definitely took a little staring at to refresh my memory. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
hand them an vernier caliper and ask them to read it. We had a guy with a claimed 25 years of experience. He may have been telling the truth, he was damn good with a lathe. He had to be shown how to read a vernier caliper.
He said he had always used dial calipers. Our shop only had dial calipers up to 24". He knew how to read a mic so it only took a second, just thought it was strange he could not figure it out on his own. I've been a machinist for over 23 years. I have worked in many shops and only had to use a tool that used the vernier scale once. It was a 36" caliper and I only had to use it once due to the dial caliper was being calibrated. I had learned how to read vernier way back in tech school, but it definitely took a little staring at to refresh my memory. Never read tenths on a mic? |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 3:31:40 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tolerances is something else I am pushing hard on. Just because it looks like the print doesn't mean it's worth a damn. It actually has to be in tolerance. They are on their 4th project and the loosest tolerance is +/-.01" for the OAL, everything else is +/-.005" or less. And I better not ever catch anyone measuring a +/-.005" dimension with a caliper.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That should be easy enough to handle. Make everything +.001 -.000 and let them measure with whatever their little hearts desire Tolerances is something else I am pushing hard on. Just because it looks like the print doesn't mean it's worth a damn. It actually has to be in tolerance. They are on their 4th project and the loosest tolerance is +/-.01" for the OAL, everything else is +/-.005" or less. And I better not ever catch anyone measuring a +/-.005" dimension with a caliper.
.005 is no problem for decent calipers and someone who knows how to use them. Has anyone used the clear fingernail polish trick yet? |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 3:35:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One shop I worked at did not have the surface finish marked on any prints. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If their math skill assessment tests are anything like the one I use for prospects it will contain basic geometry, some trigonometry, fraction to decimal conversions and metrics. Blueprint reading is different altogether and is not as standardized as it used to be and should be IMHO. If you have had any technical drawing classes you should be able to stumble through a blueprint reading assessment but that does not mean you will be proficient at their particular type of drawings until you become accustomed to their interpretation. My business is a job shop and we get drawings and models in from a lot of different customers and few of them follow the same format; commercial aviation drawing are vastly different from automotive for example. New hires, usually even experienced ones, always need supplemental training on correct drawing interpretation and geometric dimensioning. Boy that's the truth...... seems like there is ZERO standardization in prints today. I have seen some REALLY screwed up prints. One shop I worked at did not have the surface finish marked on any prints. Ever use Jap prints? They rarely call out concentricity or flatness or parallelism, etc. even when I KNOW it needs to be there. Their culture is such that you make the part to the best of your ability. It's assumed. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 4:11:37 AM EDT
[#21]
I do a lot of sheet metal prints. We manufacture the parts in house. We are required to put the bend direction (up or down) and degree of bend on a flat layout, that we call out for our reference only because the guys making the parts wrong and bending shit the wrong way despite have front, top, rh side, and iso views on said print.
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Posted: 2/18/2014 4:22:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hole shrinker= Appropriately sized ball bearing and a hammer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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3" standard? Now I'll show my rookie stripes... Never heard of one of those. (At least not by that name) I told a new guy to ask the supervisor what drawer he kept the hole shrinker in. He thought about it. :) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Hole shrinker= Appropriately sized ball bearing and a hammer. Torch |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 4:27:34 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.005 is no problem for decent calipers and someone who knows how to use them. Has anyone used the clear fingernail polish trick yet? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That should be easy enough to handle. Make everything +.001 -.000 and let them measure with whatever their little hearts desire Tolerances is something else I am pushing hard on. Just because it looks like the print doesn't mean it's worth a damn. It actually has to be in tolerance. They are on their 4th project and the loosest tolerance is +/-.01" for the OAL, everything else is +/-.005" or less. And I better not ever catch anyone measuring a +/-.005" dimension with a caliper.
.005 is no problem for decent calipers and someone who knows how to use them. Has anyone used the clear fingernail polish trick yet? One thing I stress to every employee is that calipers are reference tools only, especially the chicom toy calipers. They definitely have a place in the shop and for some features calipers are more than adequate but when possible and practical always use a micrometer. Knowing which tool to use for a particular task is something that only experience can teach. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 4:41:02 AM EDT
[#24]
I bet OP's head is spinning now with all the detours this thread took. Lots of good advice here, some that probably mean nothing to him at this point though. I can tell which of you actually know what you're talking about and wish I had you in my shop, others still have a ways to go but that is alright too. I have been in this trade almost all my life, literally. My dad started his shop when I was 8 years old and I was right there with him, even when I didn't want to be. He had 2 Coca-Cola crates nailed together for me to stand on so I could reach the handles on a Bridgeport mill; 48 years later and I still pick shavings out of my hair at night.
Good luck on your interview! |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 4:41:37 AM EDT
[#25]
There's some decent videos on youtube on reading blueprints/drawings, how to use micrometers and calipers, etc.
Enter "reading blueprints machining" in the search box. The 4th result, Blueprint 101- using micrometers, etc. change the setting to 720HD.
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Posted: 2/18/2014 4:43:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing I stress to every employee is that calipers are reference tools only, especially the chicom toy calipers. They definitely have a place in the shop and for some features calipers are more than adequate but when possible and practical always use a micrometer. Knowing which tool to use for a particular task is something that only experience can teach. True. Digital Mitutoyo and dial Etalons for me.  Hell, I can measure tenths. Says so, right on the readout.
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Posted: 2/18/2014 4:50:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet OP's head is spinning now with all the detours this thread took. Lots of good advice here, some that probably mean nothing to him at this point though. I can tell which of you actually know what you're talking about and wish I had you in my shop, others still have a ways to go but that is alright too. I have been in this trade almost all my life, literally. My dad started his shop when I was 8 years old and I was right there with him, even when I didn't want to be. He had 2 Coca-Cola crates nailed together for me to stand on so I could reach the handles on a Bridgeport mill; 48 years later and I still pick shavings out of my hair at night. Good luck on your interview! Just a little bit, I come from the military so lingo is no new surprise for me. Much of what I read though has me looking like
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Posted: 2/18/2014 4:53:27 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hello, Wear closed toe shoes (steel toe boots preferably) and clean jeans with a button down collared shirt. Bring your own eye protection and put it on without being prompted if you go in to the shop. Don't wear any jewelry or a watch. Don't check your phone during the formal interview or informal shop tour. Don't have long hair or baggy sleeves. ...snip... ^^^^^ Don't ignore this advice, OP. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 4:56:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? You don't like to see folks squirm? I've resorted to one test for an interview of someone who claims experience. Hand them a 6" scale and ask them to list all of the uses for this tool. I'll be able to tell how long they've been in a shop by how long the list is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The only time I quiz anyone on GD&T is when they're purporting experience. I don't on entry level trainee types. I didn't see it mentioned but I may have missed it. Fractions will probably be on the math quiz. By 64ths. Why? You don't like to see folks squirm? I've resorted to one test for an interview of someone who claims experience. Hand them a 6" scale and ask them to list all of the uses for this tool. I'll be able to tell how long they've been in a shop by how long the list is. Indicates tool height on a lathe better than most, but only if you use the right side up
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Posted: 2/18/2014 5:03:06 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet OP's head is spinning now with all the detours this thread took. Lots of good advice here, some that probably mean nothing to him at this point though. I can tell which of you actually know what you're talking about and wish I had you in my shop, others still have a ways to go but that is alright too. I have been in this trade almost all my life, literally. My dad started his shop when I was 8 years old and I was right there with him, even when I didn't want to be. He had 2 Coca-Cola crates nailed together for me to stand on so I could reach the handles on a Bridgeport mill; 48 years later and I still pick shavings out of my hair at night. Good luck on your interview! So, do you spin parts? I wonder how many here know what that is. I used to finish these little light housings for Grimes Aerospace that were spun from aluminum. I hadn't thought about that job in years. And, since this is a machinist thread, I think pics are in order.  " />
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Posted: 2/18/2014 5:10:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Never, ever, under any circumstances, try to catch any cutting tool if it drops. And turn your head away before it lands or at least cover your eyes.
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Posted: 2/18/2014 5:24:00 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I sent a guy for a left handed screwdriver and a metric crescent wrench. Fucker came back with a metric crescent wrench. Had to retire that one. Still use striped paint, pipe stretcher, and a Ship's sea going level. http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/Photos/tools/hit_adj_200mm_wrench_crmo_strong_jis_f_cropped_inset2.jpg That's fucking awesome  |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 5:24:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True. Digital Mitutoyo and dial Etalons for me. Hell, I can measure tenths. Says so, right on the readout.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One thing I stress to every employee is that calipers are reference tools only, especially the chicom toy calipers. They definitely have a place in the shop and for some features calipers are more than adequate but when possible and practical always use a micrometer. Knowing which tool to use for a particular task is something that only experience can teach. True. Digital Mitutoyo and dial Etalons for me. Hell, I can measure tenths. Says so, right on the readout.
I apprenticed with an older german that came over after WW2. Wow talk about tough, but im better for it. We didn't dream of calipers for anything closer than +or- .005. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 5:25:07 AM EDT
[#34]
I have pretty much given up on hiring "experienced" machinists. The good ones stay put, mostly, because they are a diminishing resource. Hell, I just gave my best lathe guy and my best mill guy equity to keep 'em.
OP, your attitude, willingness to learn, and ABILITY TO SHOW UP ON TIME, EVERY DAY, will be the main thing. If you served, you'll know to "Sir" and "ma'am" everybody, but look 'em in the eye confidently. The tests/assessments are as much for you as for them. You will see what you will be expected to know if you don't already, it will give you info on if this is a good career for you. Many shops prefer machinists to own their own tools, as opposed to supplying them. I came up with a starter kit list for new hires, it might help. 0-8" Mitutoyo Absolute Digimatic Calipers (Starett or Brown & Sharpe are also acceptable) 0-1" Starrett Micrometers (think its the T436 1xfl-1) 0-3" Starrett depth mic Good set of files (Nicholson) - set of good screwdrivers, #1,2,3 phillips and flathead set of metric and standard hex keys, preferably ball end Shaviv chamfer knife with assorted bits 6" scale (this has been covered) machinist's square 123 block brass-head hammer torx-bit set Not saying you have to buy this stuff...just something to expect. Many shops will spec the particular measuring instruments they want you to use, we for sure do. Don't go to Harbor Freight. Good Luck! |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 5:33:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Since it appears that we have all of the arfcom machinists in one place, I'll go ahead and take this thread on another small detour.
My drill press is worn out and I am looking at the Grizzly G0704 as a replacement/upgrade. I have never used a mill. Is this a really bad idea or is it possible to learn without formal training? I do have basic/intermediate metal fab skills using a plasma torch, welder etc. Quite frankly I don't have time to take a formal class. Anyone know of any online resources that I could use for the basics of operating the machine? I realize that I'll probably spend the same in tooling and measuring instruments as I am on the original piece of equipment, but I'd like to learn a new skill.  |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 5:44:11 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have pretty much given up on hiring "experienced" machinists. The good ones stay put, mostly, because they are a diminishing resource. Hell, I just gave my best lathe guy and my best mill guy equity to keep 'em. OP, your attitude, willingness to learn, and ABILITY TO SHOW UP ON TIME, EVERY DAY, will be the main thing. If you served, you'll know to "Sir" and "ma'am" everybody, but look 'em in the eye confidently. The tests/assessments are as much for you as for them. You will see what you will be expected to know if you don't already, it will give you info on if this is a good career for you. Many shops prefer machinists to own their own tools, as opposed to supplying them. I came up with a starter kit list for new hires, it might help. 0-8" Mitutoyo Absolute Digimatic Calipers (Starett or Brown & Sharpe are also acceptable) 0-1" Starrett Micrometers (think its the T436 1xfl-1) 0-3" Starrett depth mic Good set of files (Nicholson) - set of good screwdrivers, #1,2,3 phillips and flathead set of metric and standard hex keys, preferably ball end Shaviv chamfer knife with assorted bits 6" scale (this has been covered) machinist's square 123 block brass-head hammer torx-bit set Not saying you have to buy this stuff...just something to expect. Many shops will spec the particular measuring instruments they want you to use, we for sure do. Don't go to Harbor Freight. Good Luck! Another take: Some of this is preference. I find 0-6 calipers more handy. Starrett is over rated, nowdays. Mitutoyo is fine for mics. If you find some with a pony on 'em, those will do, too. Just don't buy over priced flea market junk. People see machinist stuff and think it's worth a mint. Half of them don't even have carbide faces.
Instead of a brass mallet, the Lixie dead blow mallets are tits and weenies. (a note on using a mallet. DON'T PUT YER FOOKIN' HAND ON THE PART YOU'RE SEATING ON PARALLELS.)
123 blocks should be in a set of 4. You should make them your self, if the shop will allow government work after hours. In addition to the burr knife, a roto-burr is handy. But, you'll see what you need once you get your feet wet. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 5:48:38 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since it appears that we have all of the arfcom machinists in one place, I'll go ahead and take this thread on another small detour.
My drill press is worn out and I am looking at the Grizzly G0704 as a replacement/upgrade. I have never used a mill. Is this a really bad idea or is it possible to learn without formal training? I do have basic/intermediate metal fab skills using a plasma torch, welder etc. Quite frankly I don't have time to take a formal class. Anyone know of any online resources that I could use for the basics of operating the machine? I realize that I'll probably spend the same in tooling and measuring instruments as I am on the original piece of equipment, but I'd like to learn a new skill. I haven't actually looked, but I'd bet there is a lot of good machining vids on youtube. As far as paying 1200 bucks for that machine, you stand a good chance at getting a used knee mill in that price range. Take someone who knows what's what to some local machine auctions. Only down side is most of them are 3 phase. Some older/smaller ones are not. You will quickly get frustrated with that little mill would be my prediction. ETA: After glancing at ebay and craigslist, it might be harder than I thought to get a decent deal.  This happens at auctions, too, when newbs show up and start paying close to retail for used machines. 
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:02:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a machine shop? Probably. Last two interviews I did were in steel toes and work clothes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Am I the only person who pays attention to how everyone else dresses when I go to a company? In a machine shop? Probably. Last two interviews I did were in steel toes and work clothes. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:17:02 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: flat head screwdriver spider fucker'upper when applied right, bottle cap remover back scratcher with the right gauge pin, improvised compass bookmark when used with sin bars, very shallow angles can be used as a rough 0.750" or 0.0468" gauge Shit, with enough time they should be able to at least fill two pages. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The only time I quiz anyone on GD&T is when they're purporting experience. I don't on entry level trainee types. I didn't see it mentioned but I may have missed it. Fractions will probably be on the math quiz. By 64ths. Why? You don't like to see folks squirm? I've resorted to one test for an interview of someone who claims experience. Hand them a 6" scale and ask them to list all of the uses for this tool. I'll be able to tell how long they've been in a shop by how long the list is. flat head screwdriver spider fucker'upper when applied right, bottle cap remover back scratcher with the right gauge pin, improvised compass bookmark when used with sin bars, very shallow angles can be used as a rough 0.750" or 0.0468" gauge Shit, with enough time they should be able to at least fill two pages.  |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:17:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Retired machinist for many years.
It's a great job. Thanks for bringing back old memories and all the laughs. Just don't forget to harden your babbitt hammer by dipping it in the lead pot. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:18:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yepper , a lot of folks doing the hiring decisions arent going to want to see prim and proper nancy-bois with their fancy duds and Palmolive skin
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Am I the only person who pays attention to how everyone else dresses when I go to a company? In a machine shop? Probably. Last two interviews I did were in steel toes and work clothes.
I can usually call people pretty well within the first few minutes of observation. One guy I totally missed. Shows up in silky shorts, sleeveless t-shirt, and water shoes, long hair and surfer attitude. I gave him a week, tops. Then he brought in his Gerstner stack. Ok. He has my attention. Turns out, the dude was damned good. Good enough that he didn't give much of a shit what someone else thought about his clothing choices. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:30:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't actually looked, but I'd bet there is a lot of good machining vids on youtube. As far as paying 1200 bucks for that machine, you stand a good chance at getting a used knee mill in that price range. Take someone who knows what's what to some local machine auctions. Only down side is most of them are 3 phase. Some older/smaller ones are not. You will quickly get frustrated with that little mill would be my prediction. ETA: After glancing at ebay and craigslist, it might be harder than I thought to get a decent deal. This happens at auctions, too, when newbs show up and start paying close to retail for used machines. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Since it appears that we have all of the arfcom machinists in one place, I'll go ahead and take this thread on another small detour. My drill press is worn out and I am looking at the Grizzly G0704 as a replacement/upgrade. I have never used a mill. Is this a really bad idea or is it possible to learn without formal training? I do have basic/intermediate metal fab skills using a plasma torch, welder etc. Quite frankly I don't have time to take a formal class. Anyone know of any online resources that I could use for the basics of operating the machine? I realize that I'll probably spend the same in tooling and measuring instruments as I am on the original piece of equipment, but I'd like to learn a new skill. I haven't actually looked, but I'd bet there is a lot of good machining vids on youtube. As far as paying 1200 bucks for that machine, you stand a good chance at getting a used knee mill in that price range. Take someone who knows what's what to some local machine auctions. Only down side is most of them are 3 phase. Some older/smaller ones are not. You will quickly get frustrated with that little mill would be my prediction. ETA: After glancing at ebay and craigslist, it might be harder than I thought to get a decent deal. This happens at auctions, too, when newbs show up and start paying close to retail for used machines. Yeah, I looked at that route. Not much cost savings unless you just so happen across a smoking deal. And I really don't have time to go to live auctions.  |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:30:47 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can usually call people pretty well within the first few minutes of observation. One guy I totally missed. Shows up in silky shorts, sleeveless t-shirt, and water shoes, long hair and surfer attitude. I gave him a week, tops. Then he brought in his Gerstner stack. Ok. He has my attention. Turns out, the dude was damned good. Good enough that he didn't give much of a shit what someone else thought about his clothing choices. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Am I the only person who pays attention to how everyone else dresses when I go to a company? In a machine shop? Probably. Last two interviews I did were in steel toes and work clothes. I can usually call people pretty well within the first few minutes of observation. One guy I totally missed. Shows up in silky shorts, sleeveless t-shirt, and water shoes, long hair and surfer attitude. I gave him a week, tops. Then he brought in his Gerstner stack. Ok. He has my attention. Turns out, the dude was damned good. Good enough that he didn't give much of a shit what someone else thought about his clothing choices. I dress like Id dress for a day's work ...steel toes for sure so you can tour the shop , work pants and shirt , not too dirty . A pair of your own glasses shows thoughtfulness and common sense . Knife clipped to pocket , sheathed multi-tool on belt , 6" scale and Sharpie /pen in pocket and maybe your 8' tape on your belt too . . . . hell , it's what Im usually carrying daily ......leave your smokes/dip and pistol/holster in your truck,though , and skip the cologne that day ....you dont want to smell like a whore's ashtray  |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:45:29 AM EDT
[#44]
That would've made my day.
I have a guy who came in looking like a pro for his interview, shows up first day and pushes a beat up rusty craftsman roll-around out of his minivan. It was ON ITS BACK. He flipped it out, made a tremendous racket. Everything in it was covered in grime. He lasted two weeks. I ask about tools now.
ETA: meant to quote Ridgerunner's surfer machinist genius story. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:46:21 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One shop I worked at did not have the surface finish marked on any prints. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If their math skill assessment tests are anything like the one I use for prospects it will contain basic geometry, some trigonometry, fraction to decimal conversions and metrics. Blueprint reading is different altogether and is not as standardized as it used to be and should be IMHO. If you have had any technical drawing classes you should be able to stumble through a blueprint reading assessment but that does not mean you will be proficient at their particular type of drawings until you become accustomed to their interpretation. My business is a job shop and we get drawings and models in from a lot of different customers and few of them follow the same format; commercial aviation drawing are vastly different from automotive for example. New hires, usually even experienced ones, always need supplemental training on correct drawing interpretation and geometric dimensioning. Boy that's the truth...... seems like there is ZERO standardization in prints today. I have seen some REALLY screwed up prints. One shop I worked at did not have the surface finish marked on any prints. Prints from our office require reading the notes, not all information is contained in the dimensions or notes on the face of the drawing. I worked on a big ass weldment a couple of years back designed at a different location. An assembly that would look at home out in hay field, only larger and a helluva lot heavier than you'd find there. Nothing fit when the parts in the assembly came together; the hole diameters were way too tight and none of the critical dimensions in the assembly were coordinated. But it took a few months to get to that point, the location dimensions on the weldments were carried to 4 places so it took a while to get them made; according to the designer's manager, that didn't matter, the tolerance block was controlling. I was at the shop, he wasn't, and he still wanted to argue about the shops inability to build this big ass part to print. The notes might be garbage, however. I've worked with another office that included sheet metal processing notes on drawings for machined parts "in case they are needed". |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:50:15 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever use Jap prints? They rarely call out concentricity or flatness or parallelism, etc. even when I KNOW it needs to be there. Their culture is such that you make the part to the best of your ability. It's assumed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If their math skill assessment tests are anything like the one I use for prospects it will contain basic geometry, some trigonometry, fraction to decimal conversions and metrics. Blueprint reading is different altogether and is not as standardized as it used to be and should be IMHO. If you have had any technical drawing classes you should be able to stumble through a blueprint reading assessment but that does not mean you will be proficient at their particular type of drawings until you become accustomed to their interpretation. My business is a job shop and we get drawings and models in from a lot of different customers and few of them follow the same format; commercial aviation drawing are vastly different from automotive for example. New hires, usually even experienced ones, always need supplemental training on correct drawing interpretation and geometric dimensioning. Boy that's the truth...... seems like there is ZERO standardization in prints today. I have seen some REALLY screwed up prints. One shop I worked at did not have the surface finish marked on any prints. Ever use Jap prints? They rarely call out concentricity or flatness or parallelism, etc. even when I KNOW it needs to be there. Their culture is such that you make the part to the best of your ability. It's assumed. British Aerospace prints include a note along the lines of, "Fabricate using standard craftsmanship practices". Cuts down on the number of drawing notes, but results in some real trash parts and assemblies, too. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 8:52:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
British Aerospace prints include a note along the lines of, "Fabricate using standard craftsmanship practices". Cuts down on the number of drawing notes, but results in some real trash parts and assemblies, too. We do a good bit of aerospace work and a ton of commercial aviation. Even prints from the same parent company, just different divisions, construct their prints differently. It keeps me on my toes and requires several cross checks to be sure we have all the processes accounted for and documented. Several of our customers require DFARS flow down charts with in-process and final inspection reports with all the "i's" dotted and the "t's" crossed, full accountability all the way back to where the ore was mined in some cases; if the document contains an error the parts are assumed to be in error as well. Some days I long for simpler times, maybe I'll be a blacksmith in my next life. |
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Posted: 2/19/2014 4:58:06 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: s n i p Some days I long for simpler times, maybe I'll be a blacksmith in my next life.  I'd love to work-study the craft , but my back/neck (C-4 ~C-5 ) being so fragged keeps me from swinging a hammer for very long . Maybe after my surgery (fingers crossed)The little camp I live in is across the street from a small blacksmith museum . The owner and the town are building a small covered area aside it to use for giving live demonstrations ....I look forward to them . |
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