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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:21:42 PM EDT
[#1]
From the best i can tell, they give marines ACOGS and other shit to make them more effective.... then they give Soldiers Marines to make them more effective.
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:22:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
From the best i can tell, they give marines ACOGS and other shit to make them more effective.... then they give Soldiers Marines to make them more effective. 
So much for this not being a pissing match. |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:23:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
From the best i can tell, they give marines ACOGS and other shit to make them more effective.... then they give Soldiers Marines to make them more effective.
So much for this not being a pissing match. lol and were off! |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:23:32 PM EDT
[#4]
how is this not going to be a pissing match, this is arfcom. |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:27:31 PM EDT
[#5]
The Army is bigger and better funded, plus they're always the first ones in (anywhere in the world in 18 hours or less).
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:34:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
how is this not going to be a pissing match, this is arfcom.
This!!!! My vote Coast Guard I know it wasnt an option and not really even relevent to this topic but I have to represent. 
ETA The USCG makes due with 30 year old Tech on WWII era ships, case in point the CGC ACUSHNET commisioned in 1944 and still in service |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:34:35 PM EDT
[#7]
We jump out of planes, en masse, and wear everything we have ever done on our Class A's...the Marines make everyone, including their pac clerks, look high speed with their dress blues.
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:38:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
The Army is bigger and better funded, plus they're always the first ones in (anywhere in the world in 18 hours or less).
How do you get there? 
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:39:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Well lets see. In the army, you get a medal for throwing a grenade.
 The Marines are the presidents own, with this administration I would say that is a minus for my beloved Corps. In the Corps everyone is a basic rifleman, and the Corps is limited to 200K.
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:41:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Some dudes complaining about it being hot, scary, and some crap about SAMs fly us there. They usually are more than happy to tell us about how happy they are that they didn't join our branch....or something like that.
Quoted: Quoted: The Army is bigger and better funded, plus they're always the first ones in (anywhere in the world in 18 hours or less). How do you get there? |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:43:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Yeah, yeah...and every soldier in the Army is, at the minimum, a Sharpshooter.
Quoted: Well lets see. In the army, you get a medal for throwing a grenade. The Marines are the presidents own, with this administration I would say that is a minus for my beloved Corps. In the Corps everyone is a basic rifleman, and the Corps is limited to 200K. |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:44:25 PM EDT
[#12]
The Army generally gets better/newer gear. They also have amazing access to formal schools/courses. Yet somehow even with those advantages the Marine Corps infantry units are generally more competent.
From a former Marine's point of view, most of the Army suffers from massive systemic leadership problems at all levels. They have some very good units, but unless you go to some kind of advanced school your most likely not going to get in one, and even then it's not a given. |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:45:56 PM EDT
[#13]
When you want EVERYTHING dead send Marines.
The Army is a little more flexible. |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:49:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Yeah, yeah...and every soldier in the Army is, at the minimum, a Sharpshooter.
Quoted:
Well lets see. In the army, you get a medal for throwing a grenade. The Marines are the presidents own, with this administration I would say that is a minus for my beloved Corps. In the Corps everyone is a basic rifleman, and the Corps is limited to 200K.I thought it was at a maximum a sharp shooter. The Marines are known as the First to go, because the POTUS can order them in without an act of congress. The Corps is also the last place to get new gear as they have the smallest budget, so we have to waite till the prices drop to where we can afford the gear.
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:51:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Well the ARMY are the ones training Marine MP's Heavy Equipment Operators, Truck Drivers etc but then again those ar'nt really combat per say sooo........
And after all god forgave those who joined the Corps, so should the Army............ I keed I keed I got lots of jarhead friends Truth is Marines have a better combat arms program, cause there so underfunded they know they have to make do........ |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:52:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
The Army generally gets better/newer gear. They also have amazing access to formal schools/courses. Yet somehow even with those advantages the Marine Corps infantry units are generally more competent. From a former Marine's point of view, most of the Army suffers from massive systemic leadership problems at all levels. They have some very good units, but unless you go to some kind of advanced school your most likely not going to get in one, and even then it's not a given. Nail head. |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:53:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Not as bad as the Guard/Reserve guys, though....they get issued used field dressing kits.
I miss inter-service rivalry.  The civilian world frowns upon me calling HR a bunch of worthless vaginas. HAHAHAHA!Edited to please the HR guys. Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, yeah...and every soldier in the Army is, at the minimum, a Sharpshooter. Quoted: Well lets see. In the army, you get a medal for throwing a grenade. The Marines are the presidents own, with this administration I would say that is a minus for my beloved Corps. In the Corps everyone is a basic rifleman, and the Corps is limited to 200K.I thought it was at a maximum a sharp shooter. The Marines are known as the First to go, because the POTUS can order them in without an act of congress. The Corps is also the last place to get new gear as they have the smallest budget, so we have to waite till the prices drop to where we can afford the gear. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 12:26:38 AM EDT
[#18]
If you are wondering "which service should I join"... you only need to ask yourself these TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS:
#1 - Do I love to run (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? #2 - Do I love to swim (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? If the answer to either of these questions is NO... join the Army. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 12:36:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Not to take away from Marines, but they do go to Army schools. Airborne, Ranger, etc. Not the other way around.
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Posted: 9/2/2009 12:41:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Not to take away from Marines, but they do go to Army schools. Airborne, Ranger, etc. Not the other way around. Size my friend. No need for the Marines to run their own schools when they are a far smaller and more elite force.
Well that and I don't think the Marines could afford it.
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Posted: 9/2/2009 12:49:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Not to take away from Marines, but they do go to Army schools. Airborne, Ranger, etc. Not the other way around. No $$$$$$, the Marine Corps is forced to rely on unit training. The Army on the other hand gives that shit away to soldiers many of whom don't rate the school, and/or don't even want to go. So....in general how would you say Marines fair in your schools compared to soldiers? |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 12:55:58 AM EDT
[#22]
If you're going for a combat job, go all the way.
De Oppresso Liber |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 1:03:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
If you are wondering "which service should I join"... you only need to ask yourself these TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS: #1 - Do I love to run (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? #2 - Do I love to swim (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? If the answer to either of these questions is NO... join the Army. I did both in the Army, often. Army gets the newer, better equipment.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not to take away from Marines, but they do go to Army schools. Airborne, Ranger, etc. Not the other way around. Size my friend. No need for the Marines to run their own schools when they are a far smaller and more elite force.
Yep. I still fail to see what is so elite about the Marines. It is all hype. The airborne infantry units I served in were more "elite" than the most of the marines. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 1:04:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: If you are wondering "which service should I join"... you only need to ask yourself these TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS: #1 - Do I love to run (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? #2 - Do I love to swim (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? If the answer to either of these questions is NO... join the Army. I did both in the Army, often. Army gets the newer, better equipment.And believe me when I tell you that you did it about 1/10th as much as you would have in the Corps. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 1:07:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are wondering "which service should I join"... you only need to ask yourself these TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS: #1 - Do I love to run (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? #2 - Do I love to swim (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? If the answer to either of these questions is NO... join the Army. I did both in the Army, often. Army gets the newer, better equipment.And believe me when I tell you that you did it about 1/10th as much as you would have in the Corps. Yeah ok. The swimming maybe. I was in the 82nd ABN. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 1:18:36 AM EDT
[#26]
If I was the dictator of some third world shithole, I really would not want to hear the USA president say "We're sending the Marines"
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Posted: 9/2/2009 2:44:11 AM EDT
[#27]
Marines are the smallest fighting force in the would. Marines are also the most feared fighting force in the world. Marines in a combat MOS are much more proficient in there job because politics does not get in the way of training.
Marine Corps units use army schools because we do not have the money to fund them and the Army has them. So we let the Army spend their money training our Marines on non combat jobs. First and foremost Every Marine is trained to be a fighting marine before they go work a desk job. The Marine Corps does not have the money the army has but we make due and kick ass with what we do have ( we steal the rest from the army). In 2003 when we went back to Iraq the army went full speed across the desert skipping all the towns, the Marines went straight through the towns. This is because they knew we could handle it. The Army raced ahead to set up our R&R facility. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 2:54:34 AM EDT
[#28]
I've never been in the service, but I always thought of it like this:
Marines are the shock troops....send them in to kill things and blow shit up, then move them to another place and let them do the same. Army is sent in to hold areas...they kill things on the way in and blow things up also, but then they stay and hold that area. Sound about right? |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 2:54:50 AM EDT
[#29]
There is nothing more potentially dangerous than believing your own propaganda.
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:03:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
The Army generally gets better/newer gear. They also have amazing access to formal schools/courses. Yet somehow even with those advantages the Marine Corps infantry units are generally more competent. From a former Marine's point of view, most of the Army suffers from massive systemic leadership problems at all levels. They have some very good units, but unless you go to some kind of advanced school your most likely not going to get in one, and even then it's not a given. It is kind a myth the Marines somewhat pride ourselves on. The fact is other than big ticket items (tanks, etc) the Marines normally issue gear faster and more uniformly than the army. Remember back in the 90s when all the new gear started being field,ed Marine divisions fielded it first. Whether good or bad, we got interceptors, MOLLE, new boots and gloves, gore-tex and a whole slew of things the army had to yet to field to all the troops. The army has somewhat closed the gap with the RFI program, but in a way that is very much unit dependant. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:11:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Marines are the smallest fighting force in the would. Marines are also the most feared fighting force in the world. Marines in a combat MOS are much more proficient in there job because politics does not get in the way of training. Marine Corps units use army schools because we do not have the money to fund them and the Army has them. So we let the Army spend their money training our Marines on non combat jobs. First and foremost Every Marine is trained to be a fighting marine before they go work a desk job. The Marine Corps does not have the money the army has but we make due and kick ass with what we do have ( we steal the rest from the army). In 2003 when we went back to Iraq the army went full speed across the desert skipping all the towns, the Marines went straight through the towns. This is because they knew we could handle it. The Army raced ahead to set up our R&R facility. I disagree about the "Much More Profficent bit" I've served side by side with Marines and Army Infantry, both were equally profficent and both had just as much politics involved. Like anything else there is BS and Politics involved in everything, and your going to have your sucky leaders and great leaders no matter the orginasation. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:17:28 AM EDT
[#32]
No one really swims with 50lbs of gear on, for most part the gear is rigged to float and you just move it along with you. Marines are currently looking into our swim requirements and PTP training and one of things we are finding that the troops have to be trained to ditch all their gear when they know they are going into the water. The combat load will drag you down no matter how good a swimmer you are since it is negatively buoyant.
Units that work in the maritime environment, have to use gear with added buoyancy. You will sink otherwise. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:19:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not to take away from Marines, but they do go to Army schools. Airborne, Ranger, etc. Not the other way around. No $$$$$$, the Marine Corps is forced to rely on unit training. The Army on the other hand gives that shit away to soldiers many of whom don't rate the school, and/or don't even want to go. So....in general how would you say Marines fair in your schools compared to soldiers? It depends. They send their more elite Marines, i.e. Force Recon, Scout Snipers, etc, Officers too. The ones who want to be there. You can't compare them to regular army 11 bang bangs to get drop out rate comparisons. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:19:21 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Marines are the smallest fighting force in the would. Marines are also the most feared fighting force in the world. Marines in a combat MOS are much more proficient in there job because politics does not get in the way of training. Marine Corps units use army schools because we do not have the money to fund them and the Army has them. So we let the Army spend their money training our Marines on non combat jobs. First and foremost Every Marine is trained to be a fighting marine before they go work a desk job. The Marine Corps does not have the money the army has but we make due and kick ass with what we do have ( we steal the rest from the army). In 2003 when we went back to Iraq the army went full speed across the desert skipping all the towns, the Marines went straight through the towns. This is because they knew we could handle it. The Army raced ahead to set up our R&R facility. 
here is another lesson... actual history and history marine corp style 
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:19:56 AM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:20:20 AM EDT
[#36]
damn here we go again
Army typically gets some of the newer and better stuff simply bc they have a bigger budget. The oldMarine saying that we have learned to do more with less still holds true.. however, budgets and equipment aside each Branch has proven war fighters whether the MOS is 11B or 0311. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:20:46 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
There is nothing more potentially dangerous than believing your own propaganda. for once you posted with intelligence |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:21:27 AM EDT
[#38]
*edit
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:22:59 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are wondering "which service should I join"... you only need to ask yourself these TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS: #1 - Do I love to run (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? #2 - Do I love to swim (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? If the answer to either of these questions is NO... join the Army. I did both in the Army, often. Army gets the newer, better equipment.And believe me when I tell you that you did it about 1/10th as much as you would have in the Corps. Yeah ok. The swimming maybe. I was in the 82nd ABN. They won't understand Rick. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:23:05 AM EDT
[#40]
here is the final answer.....
The Marines are the tip of the sword, the Army is the blade. Simple. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:26:24 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Marines are the smallest fighting force in the would. Marines are also the most feared fighting force in the world. Marines in a combat MOS are much more proficient in there job because politics does not get in the way of training. Marine Corps units use army schools because we do not have the money to fund them and the Army has them. So we let the Army spend their money training our Marines on non combat jobs. First and foremost Every Marine is trained to be a fighting marine before they go work a desk job. The Marine Corps does not have the money the army has but we make due and kick ass with what we do have ( we steal the rest from the army). In 2003 when we went back to Iraq the army went full speed across the desert skipping all the towns, the Marines went straight through the towns. This is because they knew we could handle it. The Army raced ahead to set up our R&R facility. I disagree about the "Much More Profficent bit" I've served side by side with Marines and Army Infantry, both were equally profficent and both had just as much politics involved. Like anything else there is BS and Politics involved in everything, and your going to have your sucky leaders and great leaders no matter the orginasation. Very true, you really don't find a whole bunch of difference in combat arms units from either service. The point I often make is Marine elements normally have more fire power at lower levels 13 man, 3 fire team squads vice 9 man, 2 team squads. The army does give platoon MMG, that somewhat make up for the lower amount of LMGs, ours are a company asset and the CO decides where to employ them to weight his main effort. One thing I have noticed working with both services is that fire support integration is normally done better in the Marines(what you normally see in the army is fire support deconfliction) because of owning our own airwing and our capstone exercise for the longest time was an all live fire program at 29 Palms, vice the Army's force on force Exercise at the various centers like NTC and JRTC . You do see a bit of a difference in non-combat arms troops because of the institutionalizing of infantry training for all Marines. All enlisted Marines following recruit training attend the 28 day school of infantry light at Marine Combat Training. And all officers attend the six month infantry oriented The Basic School prior to MOS training. This training gives them the ability, although often rusty at it, to be provisional infantry. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:26:39 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
here is the final answer..... The Marines are the tip of the sword, the Army is the blade. Simple. and the air force and Navy are the Shaft
j/k |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:28:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: here is the final answer..... The Marines are the tip of the sword, the Army is the blade. Simple. and the air force and Navy are the Shaft j/k LOL! maybe the sheath? LOL |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:31:30 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are wondering "which service should I join"... you only need to ask yourself these TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS: #1 - Do I love to run (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? #2 - Do I love to swim (with 50lbs of gear, combat boots, and a rifle).... ALOT? If the answer to either of these questions is NO... join the Army. I did both in the Army, often. Army gets the newer, better equipment.And believe me when I tell you that you did it about 1/10th as much as you would have in the Corps. Really? The Marines we relieved in Afghanistan did a 7 month deployment while we did 13, then back in garrison for 6 and then a 15 month tour in Iraq. Yes, it has allot to do with the Marine Corps maintain its deployment cycle from the years prior to the Long War. What most people don't seem to understand was the deployments are nothing new to the Marines, we have been doing them at the same cycle since the end of World War II, so it was easy to make the case to the Civilian leadership that we would maintain our normal deployment cycle of 7 on and 7 off, with a goal to get to 14 off, which with off ramping makes possible for all but the High Demand, Low Density MOSs. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:32:08 AM EDT
[#45]
Tee-Hee
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:33:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
here is the final answer..... The Marines are the tip of the sword, the Army is the blade. Simple. and the air force and Navy are the Shaft
j/k LOL! maybe the sheath? LOL hahahahaha we kid, we kid we all loved Air force women 
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:33:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
From the best i can tell, they give marines ACOGS and other shit to make them more effective.... then they give Soldiers Marines to make them more effective. BWAHAHAHA.... nice traditionally, Marines have done more with less... the Army usually gets issued all the new gear. That IS changing though- between unit purchases and word getting around about new gear (gotta remember, the custom gear business is still pretty new- used to be everyone ran around with an LBV and called it a day- now you'll see 10 different ways to wear gear in a squad) Marines are getting newer gear also. From what I saw, we (Marines) are still focused on long range accuracy a bit more (ACOG vs Aimpoint for primary optic) but both get new enough gear. Personally I used all my own personal crap just because I like it more. Now if you wanted to talk about EFFECTIVENESS using that new gear- that's a whole 'nother ballgame
*edit* since I've read through a bit more of the page... I've met GREAT Soldiers, and I know SHIT Marines- I think that the number one difference between the Army and the Marines is attitude. From what I can tell- the Soldiers who have the same mentality as "Marines" are "supposed" to have.... (that is... taking pride in their uniform and service, LOOKING to train more, doing all they can to stay in shape.... there is a mentality that Marines have, and the Army- for the most part- lacks it) are outstanding Soldiers.... I'm sure there are entire units who maintain this mentality in their junior soldiers.... but it seems more prevalent in the Marine Corps- and THAT is what makes a fighting man- not the uniform he wears. but Marines are still better
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:39:15 AM EDT
[#48]
http://www.stuff.hqubed.com/uploads/army%20vs%20marines.jpg[/quote] The guy on the right is Navy or Marine Corps, he has an 8-point cover. I can't make out the rank. |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:46:10 AM EDT
[#49]
The guy on the right is Navy or Marine Corps, he has an 8-point cover. I can't make out the rank.[/quote] not sure what the deal with the pic is- I know the Navy has to follow the same rules as the Marines about cammies off base. Does look like an 8 point.... also looking at the LCPL with nothing on his uniform. Looks to be a staged photo (Though could be just out of boot back before/after the first gulf war) |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 3:50:41 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
here is the final answer..... The Marines are the tip of the sword, the Army is the blade. Simple. 
"R.O.K." Since 1953.
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