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Posted: 3/6/2016 10:31:04 AM EDT
[#1]
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Having worked side by side with these guys in the city of Mesa.They are a good group, sounds like a bad situation and a bad reaction, but Cops cant show up half cocked cause someone reported the word gun. I personally dont think he (the officer) should serve prison time, but should definitely lose his job to ever work as an officer again. When a serious call kicks out over the CAD, I know it gets my heart going, only Im not going in harms way like PD is. We task these guys with such difficult situations and to deal with the communities worst of the worst. More than likely this wasnt cold blood, or killing for sport to earn a notch. My heart goes out to both sides and both families. Ive never met a Mesa Officer that was this "Cold and Callus" us verses them so fuck'm type. All have been very professional, hell, if I had to point fingers, us on the EMS side are far worse. I await to see the camera footage, odds are if they are prosecuting...it wont be pretty. So, he kills an innocent man and his only accountability should be losing his job? 
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Posted: 3/6/2016 2:38:07 PM EDT
[#2]
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So, he kills an innocent man and his only accountability should be losing his job?
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Having worked side by side with these guys in the city of Mesa.They are a good group, sounds like a bad situation and a bad reaction, but Cops cant show up half cocked cause someone reported the word gun. I personally dont think he (the officer) should serve prison time, but should definitely lose his job to ever work as an officer again. When a serious call kicks out over the CAD, I know it gets my heart going, only Im not going in harms way like PD is. We task these guys with such difficult situations and to deal with the communities worst of the worst. More than likely this wasnt cold blood, or killing for sport to earn a notch. My heart goes out to both sides and both families. Ive never met a Mesa Officer that was this "Cold and Callus" us verses them so fuck'm type. All have been very professional, hell, if I had to point fingers, us on the EMS side are far worse. I await to see the camera footage, odds are if they are prosecuting...it wont be pretty. So, he kills an innocent man and his only accountability should be losing his job?
his user name is fitting in this case. |
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Posted: 3/6/2016 3:36:47 PM EDT
[#3]
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My opinions come from training and experience. Your opinions seem to have no basis in either. Believe what you wish. My opinion is what it is. The great thing about America is that the Liberty of the individual is the number one value.....or at least it used to be. So much so, that the people who founded our country held a convention where a large group of the deepest thinkers we had, wrote up a document that was expressly intended to put limits on people with badges and guns. A document that, incidentally, you swore an oath to uphold and to "Protect and Defend from all enemies, foreign and domestic". In fact, an oath that I swore as well.  And that individual Liberty includes the freedom to have your own fucking opinion. 
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Posted: 3/6/2016 5:17:11 PM EDT
[#4]
The moral of the story: extend your hands so that they are visible and do not move no matter what the officers say.
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Posted: 3/6/2016 5:19:05 PM EDT
[#5]
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What legal obligation does a police department have to notify a girlfriend? Legally, She is not "next of kin". In fact, what entitlement does she have to a civil suit? Aside from the 8-9 kids they probably had together...? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah, don't know if true, but the wife's reports of what she has been told are pretty damning. Mesa PD waited 4 days to call his wife and tell her her husband had been killed. They knew his name and address when they were dispatched.... that's just low. Yea. Thats not going to play well in the civil suit. What legal obligation does a police department have to notify a girlfriend? Legally, She is not "next of kin". In fact, what entitlement does she have to a civil suit? Aside from the 8-9 kids they probably had together...? Next friend and guardian of the kids. She should have no personal damages to speak of. |
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Posted: 3/6/2016 5:22:02 PM EDT
[#6]
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In the case that brought about this thread, we have an officer that fully bought into the "furtive movement toward the waistband" justification...unfortunately the subject wasn't armed in any way, and there was no reason to believe he had any weapon other than a long gun, which probably wasn't in his waistband. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Since I joined this forum, I've always posted my opinion in these cases: "you should have to see a gun, with the muzzle coming toward you, before you can shoot". I've also always said "our soldiers in many cases have a more restrictive ROE than our domestic police do". The blue line usually rakes me over the coals. I'm ok with that. 99% of the time, cops do their job with honor and professionalism. A vast majority of police shootings are indeed justified. But then you have cases like this, or the CA cop who just engaged an unarmed driver like a pop up target, and then tried to cover it up. When otherwise good cops attempt to justify or make excuses for the handful of bad shoots, it badly damages the public trust. And they do it out of "tribalism"......protecting "their own kind" etc. It's very foolish IMO. I don't know why some cops seem to think that their actions should be above scrutiny or consequence, but they should not. A police officer should always be held accountable for the legality of their actions, period. Just like a civilian should. You're very wrong about both parts of what I highlighted in blue. Using your ridiculously strict requirements, if I "have to see a gun, with the muzzle coming toward (me), before (I) can shoot," I can never use deadly force to defend someone else, as in an active shooter at a school. Nor can I defend myself or someone else against a criminal using a knife, or bat, or pipe, or axe. The list goes on. Did you even think that part through before you posted it? As to your comment about "our soldiers in many cases have a more restrictive ROE than our domestic police do". Where do you get that? Have you served in combat as a soldier, or on the street as a police officer? If you get raked over the coals, it's because you post nonsensical things like some of the things you did in the above post. Good cops, including here on this forum, do not condone bad shootings or illegal acts by other officers. However, sometimes, things are not clear cut, especially when an officer trying to do his or her best in a fast evolving situation uses force against a resistive subject. Most borderline shootings, and even most bad shootings, are a result of resistance or fast movements by a person suspected of criminal activity. It is extremely rare that a shooting does not involve either resistance or fast movement that looks like reaching for a weapon. It appears that this shooting may be one of these rare times. There have indeed been recent threads on bad shootings here in which no cop poster justified the actions of the officer, and in fact condemned the actions. Your token comment that "99% of the time, cops do their job with honor and professionalism," reminds me of people who say, "I'm not racist, but..." In the case that brought about this thread, we have an officer that fully bought into the "furtive movement toward the waistband" justification...unfortunately the subject wasn't armed in any way, and there was no reason to believe he had any weapon other than a long gun, which probably wasn't in his waistband. |
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Posted: 3/6/2016 5:28:30 PM EDT
[#7]
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The moral of the story: extend your hands so that they are visible and do not move no matter what the officers say. Yep,works almost every time........... 
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Posted: 3/6/2016 5:36:09 PM EDT
[#8]
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Believe what you wish. My opinion is what it is. The great thing about America is that the Liberty of the individual is the number one value.....or at least it used to be. So much so, that the people who founded our country held a convention where a large group of the deepest thinkers we had, wrote up a document that was expressly intended to put limits on people with badges and guns. A document that, incidentally, you swore an oath to uphold and to "Protect and Defend from all enemies, foreign and domestic". In fact, an oath that I swore as well. And that individual Liberty includes the freedom to have your own fucking opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My opinions come from training and experience. Your opinions seem to have no basis in either. Believe what you wish. My opinion is what it is. The great thing about America is that the Liberty of the individual is the number one value.....or at least it used to be. So much so, that the people who founded our country held a convention where a large group of the deepest thinkers we had, wrote up a document that was expressly intended to put limits on people with badges and guns. A document that, incidentally, you swore an oath to uphold and to "Protect and Defend from all enemies, foreign and domestic". In fact, an oath that I swore as well. And that individual Liberty includes the freedom to have your own fucking opinion. There is absolutely no reason for you to arrogantly remind me that I took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution. I never said you couldn't have your own opinion. I stated your opinion seems to have no basis in either training or experience. I stand behind that, and I now double down on it, stating that your opinion is ill-informed and wrong. The only reason you brought up the freedoms provided by the constitution is to make yourself look like a victim and to try to create a smoke screen to hide the fact that you wrongly, ignorantly, and stupidly proclaimed how a cop can use deadly force. That is evidenced by the back pedaling you were forced to do when your proclamation as to when a cop can use deadly force was proven wrong. |
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Posted: 3/6/2016 11:16:09 PM EDT
[#9]
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Believe what you wish. My opinion is what it is. The great thing about America is that the Liberty of the individual is the number one value.....or at least it used to be. So much so, that the people who founded our country held a convention where a large group of the deepest thinkers we had, wrote up a document that was expressly intended to put limits on people with badges and guns. A document that, incidentally, you swore an oath to uphold and to "Protect and Defend from all enemies, foreign and domestic". In fact, an oath that I swore as well. And that individual Liberty includes the freedom to have your own fucking opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My opinions come from training and experience. Your opinions seem to have no basis in either. Believe what you wish. My opinion is what it is. The great thing about America is that the Liberty of the individual is the number one value.....or at least it used to be. So much so, that the people who founded our country held a convention where a large group of the deepest thinkers we had, wrote up a document that was expressly intended to put limits on people with badges and guns. A document that, incidentally, you swore an oath to uphold and to "Protect and Defend from all enemies, foreign and domestic". In fact, an oath that I swore as well. And that individual Liberty includes the freedom to have your own fucking opinion. Holy non sequitur Batman! Where did that come from? |
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Posted: 4/4/2016 4:39:18 PM EDT
[#10]
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Show us on the doll where the civilian girlfriend touched you...... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah, don't know if true, but the wife's reports of what she has been told are pretty damning. Mesa PD waited 4 days to call his wife and tell her her husband had been killed. They knew his name and address when they were dispatched.... that's just low. IIRC, She's not his wife. "Common law" wife... They notified his dad who's the legal next of kin, apparently he didn't pass the word along to girlfriend. Sperm-guzzler does not equal wife, legally. Show us on the doll where the civilian girlfriend touched you...... You see a pic of the cop/shooter? He looks like he'll fit right in on the sperm-guzzling squad...in prison. |
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