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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:24:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is that sad? Surely the congregation knew that before electing to split? You're right that that's how it is, but it's pretty damn stupid for a congregation which can be dated back to the very early 1800s to give up its church building to an organization when they pay for it. Lots of things need to change with the UMC. I like and grew up in my congregation, I despise the UMC as an organization. I hope they split just because the UMC is so scummy and political. Many people want to go to church with the congregation they know, they don't want to deal with this shit. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:28:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Local Methodist church had a great Pastor, active in the community, well loved. Well, they have a three year policy for pastors, so off he goes. Ever since it has been SJW after SJW. Women pastors who are more concerned about vegetable gardens than gospel. This doesn't surprise me in the least. They have to hold separate services with "new style" and "old style" songs and sermons. A parade of women pastors that everyone despise. My parents are as religious as anyone you can imagine. They basically stopped going to church, and have been intermittently going to alternate churches. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:28:28 AM EDT
[#3]
what is the most conservative Christian Denomination now? Methodists are all about gays and open borders now.
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:32:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what is the most conservative Christian Denomination now? Methodists are all about gays and open borders now. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:36:35 AM EDT
[#5]
I should hold a poll, I'm curious about the number of members that belong to churches affiliated with American Baptist Churches USA.
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:37:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know of two churches local to me that split off over this. Sad part is that the UMC owns all land and buildings for all of the UMC churches, so the individual congregations that are dropping out of the association are having to buy the land and church buildings. UMC has been bleeding congregation members for generations. They keep getting more and more liberal, and upon seeing their numbers decline, they decide they are not liberal enough! Talk about doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result. It is a sad situation that will not get any better. The funny part is the African contingent will soon exceed the US contingent in numbers and the Africans want nothing to do with this liberal nonsense. That is why the US is voting now before the Africans out vote them. I know more former Methodists than I do practicing members. What a joke! And they talk about bringing non-believers to Christ as if we live in a atheistic country. Just bring back the Christians forced to leave because of this liberal hogwash! |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:39:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to be amazed at the number of churches here that split like amoebas because one faction couldn't stomach another. As a result we have more little churches here than mushrooms after a rainy stretch. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Typical Protestants. Give them enough time and there won't be any churches left.. Everyone will have split off and started their own church. Church of Mike and Church of Gwen and Church of................. Stopping it is a great way to filter the leaders in the church. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:43:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what is the most conservative Christian Denomination now? Methodists are all about gays and open borders now. There's a local pro-life women's shelter for women in crisis pregnancies with kids (most shelters won't take women who already have kids). They provide housing (they own a few houses), supplies, counseling, training, medical care, etc and help these women keep their baby and current kids. And set them on a path to success. Anyway, out of all the churches, including a bunch of mainlines, in our town only the Catholic churches and Lifepoint support them. The rest support abortion, so I guess it would be a bad look to help out. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:43:46 AM EDT
[#9]
I have a friend who will be covering the vote (writes for one of the Methodist mags) "live". She was in Portland at the last conference and the LBGT folks were really militant then. They are not taking NO for an answer and want to change a church rather than go to a "church" that aligns with them.
This is going to be a shit show of the highest order. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:44:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably independent Baptist and Churches of Christ. I'm COC and our creed is "where the Bible speaks, we speak. Where the Bible is silent, we are silent". You won't get any sugar coated mesaages. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
what is the most conservative Christian Denomination now? Methodists are all about gays and open borders now. He also went to the original texts in order to translate them himself |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:45:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Local Methodist church had a great Pastor, active in the community, well loved. Well, they have a three year policy for pastors, so off he goes. Ever since it has been SJW after SJW. Women pastors who are more concerned about vegetable gardens than gospel. This doesn't surprise me in the least. Several reasons: 1. They support the communist World Council of Churches (WCC). I do not want 1 red cent of my money going to the WCC. 2. They brought in a woman preacher who preached women's lib crap from the pulpit. 3. Even the male preachers don't seem to have a copy of the Bible---or if they do, they are not taking sermons from them. Sermons come from some talking points that the Methodist headquarters sends out to the preachers. 4. They accepted openly gay members a few years ago. 5. They will soon accept openly gay preachers. 6. I had belonged to and supported an adult couples Sunday School class for years and the Church for years, and when I got hit with a divorce, NOBODY (zero, none) ever called me or talked to me to ask if I was OK. (I wasn't, but I am now.) I figured out that they are not Christians. There is an independent Methodist Church association that tends to adhere to the Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Independent_Methodists |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:48:29 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a friend who will be covering the vote (writes for one of the Methodist mags) "live". She was in Portland at the last conference and the LBGT folks were really militant then. They are not taking NO for an answer and want to change a church rather than go to a "church" that aligns with them. This is going to be a shit show of the highest order. You hold a vote, because voting on the issue shows you care about people's opinions. They lose. Then they have another vote. and another. And another. Until they win. Then you're never allowed to vote on the issue again. Father Dwight Longenecker talks about it. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:51:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Typical Protestants. Give them enough time and there won't be any churches left.. Everyone will have split off and started their own church. Church of Mike and Church of Gwen and Church of...... ETA: And many left in disappointment because what Jesus said was too difficult to accept. (Real Presence) |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:51:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I moved to this area we attended a church with a pastor that said, "that might not be popular preaching, but it is Biblical preaching". He also went to the original texts in order to translate them himself |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:52:17 AM EDT
[#15]
It's always amazing to me how cyclical history is, all aspects of history.
So a major religious denomination is having some internal disagreements and is going to "splinter" because of it ..... neva ben dun befo |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:52:40 AM EDT
[#16]
I find it highly amusing that Christianity, a faith based upon "follow these rules or you are a sinner," has multiple sects splitting up because a militant wing is all "we don't want to be judgmental."
That's not a slam on Christianity, just an observation that the "love everyone no matter what" has completely swallowed up the whole concept of "God has standards of behavior that you're expected to meet." |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 9:57:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hate to say it, but church is a business. If they want more contributions they just allow everything and everybody to be more inclusive and not say boo. I am appalled by the way parishioners attend Church and how parents let their kids wear tramp clothes. (Would you let your 15 year old daughter walk up to take communion wearing a T-Shirt that says "Who says money can't buy you love?" ) Society has no standards, because we are now taught that standards are judgmental. So this is the shit you have. Enjoy. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:00:04 AM EDT
[#18]
double
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:03:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find it highly amusing that Christianity, a faith based upon "follow these rules or you are a sinner," has multiple sects splitting up because a militant wing is all "we don't want to be judgmental." That's not a slam on Christianity, just an observation that the "love everyone no matter what" has completely swallowed up the whole concept of "God has standards of behavior that you're expected to meet." You want supreme court justices that follow the Constition, don't you? That's what most Christians want, is for the church to follow the Bible. You see, the Bible has never changed, man has. That is the problem. Just like a court that has strayed from the Constitution, a church that has conformed to the world is a church that has outlived its usefulness. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:04:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our family left one of the largest UMC's in Oklahoma last year due to a liberal flameout from LGBTQwhatever along with the massive onslaught of female clergy and a new female Pastor. the bible specifically says that a female cannot be head of a church. females are the back bone of the church in function but not in those roles. it got too bizarre. I hear she gives a real fire and brimstone message once a month. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:13:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apparently you don't know much about Christianity. If you follow the rules, you are still a sinner, everyone of us. That's why we need God's saving grace. You want supreme court justices that follow the Constition, don't you? That's what most Christians want, is for the church to follow the Bible. You see, the Bible has never changed, man has. That is the problem. Just like a court that has strayed from the Constitution, a church that has conformed to the world is a church that has outlived its usefulness. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I find it highly amusing that Christianity, a faith based upon "follow these rules or you are a sinner," has multiple sects splitting up because a militant wing is all "we don't want to be judgmental." That's not a slam on Christianity, just an observation that the "love everyone no matter what" has completely swallowed up the whole concept of "God has standards of behavior that you're expected to meet." You want supreme court justices that follow the Constition, don't you? That's what most Christians want, is for the church to follow the Bible. You see, the Bible has never changed, man has. That is the problem. Just like a court that has strayed from the Constitution, a church that has conformed to the world is a church that has outlived its usefulness. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:13:32 AM EDT
[#22]
"The best way to control the opposition is to lead it." Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, better known by the alias Lenin.
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:14:10 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our local UMC church got a lady pastor last year. I hear she gives a real fire and brimstone message once a month. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Our family left one of the largest UMC's in Oklahoma last year due to a liberal flameout from LGBTQwhatever along with the massive onslaught of female clergy and a new female Pastor. the bible specifically says that a female cannot be head of a church. females are the back bone of the church in function but not in those roles. it got too bizarre. I hear she gives a real fire and brimstone message once a month. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:16:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholic church will be next. Current Pope is a fucking commie. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:16:51 AM EDT
[#25]
The Mormon church is the one true way, you fucking heathens.
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:16:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe, but for every one good one it seems like you get 50 with short grey hair, wearing weird outfits, and being all SJW. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Our family left one of the largest UMC's in Oklahoma last year due to a liberal flameout from LGBTQwhatever along with the massive onslaught of female clergy and a new female Pastor. the bible specifically says that a female cannot be head of a church. females are the back bone of the church in function but not in those roles. it got too bizarre. I hear she gives a real fire and brimstone message once a month. 
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:16:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In your zeal to berate me with your supposedly-superior knowledge of Christianity, you utterly and completely missed my point. But you be you, Hero. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:17:10 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find it highly amusing that Christianity, a faith based upon "follow these rules or you are a sinner," has multiple sects splitting up because a militant wing is all "we don't want to be judgmental." That's not a slam on Christianity, just an observation that the "love everyone no matter what" has completely swallowed up the whole concept of "God has standards of behavior that you're expected to meet." Laws or rules were and are designed to do one thing. Show us how far we have fallen and how far we are away from the moral standard that God expects. Perfection. Only by the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross are we able to have His righteousness applied to our account. Otherwise, the rules are to push us to seek a way to satisfy the requirements of God's moral standard. As far as what else you are saying, you are absolutely correct. In our culture the church has moved to a "we are just called to love, love, love". They ignore the dichotomy of God. God is love. Absolutely. God is also Holy and righteous. He will judge and that judgment is not based on what the culture says but what His standards dictate. I ran across a quote by Bob Deffinbaugh. He says, "God's Righteousness, in relationship to man, is their conformity to a standard...God is not defined by the term Righteous as much as righteous is defined by God. God is not measured by the standard of righteousness; God sets the standard of righteousness." Sadly, God has become our friend or our buddy. The big man upstairs. These statements put into an anemic perspective of who God really is and how and what God expects from us as His creation. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:17:21 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In your zeal to berate me with your supposedly-superior knowledge of Christianity, you utterly and completely missed my point. But you be you, Hero. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:18:14 AM EDT
[#30]
BLUF: 'Africa wins again.'
The upcoming drama in the United Methodist Church is absolutely delicious in a SJW vs. Racial Minority way. The African and Asian delegates to the special session General Conference are almost homophobic in their aversion to LGBTQ+ contamination of the Church. The SJW's will be fighting tooth and nail to advance their agenda. When the two forces collide, there will be sparks igniting an explosion that leaves the UMC, as we know it today, in tatters. It's funny how the SJW's in the Church promoted missionairies and church building in Africa and now that decision is coming back to haunt them. What's even funnier is the apportionments (dues) that the SJW congregations pay to the UMC HQ will be used to purchase airfare from Africa for the delegates who will vote against them! Ultimately, the Africans bring the force that abolishes the 'United' from the name of the denomination. Take that you White, wealthy SJW! LOL What is sad is delegates probably won't be able to come to a decision or else the plan they vote out will be so amended and changed that it won't be passed at the GC in 2020. In effect, they will kick the can down the road AGAIN. Meanwhile, the Church is bleeding out. It's just a matter of time before the global UMC is unsustainable. I am praying for a 'generous exit' provision that allows my congregation to leave with the assets WE purchased. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:21:53 AM EDT
[#31]
I was raised a Methodist. IME with two congregations, Methodists believe in nothing except dogmatic "liberalism."
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:27:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Ah the long march through the institutions continues. No group is immune.
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:30:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Many Bible based conservative congregations are joining the Wesleyan Covenant Association in preparation for a split.
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:34:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Big problem right there as women are not allowed to be pastors or teach men in any spiritual way, according to God not me 
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:40:53 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's fucking hilarious, given your socialist, near communist Pope. Will the Protestants be rid of the homosexuals? |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:50:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, In a few years we'll be rid of him. Will the Protestants be rid of the homosexuals? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's fucking hilarious, given your socialist, near communist Pope. Will the Protestants be rid of the homosexuals? "The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has become the fourth Protestant denomination in the U.S. to allow the ordination of gay and lesbian clergy. It follows a majority vote by the 173 presbyteries (district governing bodies) on Tuesday to change the body’s constitution in order to allow openly gay people in same-sex relationships to be ordained as ministers, elders and deacons." |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:51:49 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That congregation paid all the money to build, maintain and operate that church. The denomination left them by abandoning it's core beliefs, yet the local church had to pay them just to keep what they built. Often denominations will take title of properties to help defend the local church against slip and fall lawsuits. Lawyers are less inclined to go up against an international organization with lawyers on retainer than a local congregation. These setups seem great when the denomination is in line with the beliefs of the local church. As we see here though, leftists take over the national organization and it becomes a nightmare. Read "Divided We Stand" for more info on this. It's a poorly-written book but it has lots of the history of the church. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:53:02 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Typical Protestants. Give them enough time and there won't be any churches left.. Everyone will have split off and started their own church. Church of Mike and Church of Gwen and Church of...... ETA: And many left in disappointment because what Jesus said was too difficult to accept. (Real Presence) 
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:53:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never heard it put that way, but yes, that's the one. (snort) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What's that one fake church that LARPs as Christian - Episcopalian? (snort) |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:56:17 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what is the most conservative Christian Denomination now? Methodists are all about gays and open borders now. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:59:19 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, In a few years we'll be rid of him. Will the Protestants be rid of the homosexuals? |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 10:59:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find it highly amusing that Christianity, a faith based upon "follow these rules or you are a sinner," has multiple sects splitting up because a militant wing is all "we don't want to be judgmental." That's not a slam on Christianity, just an observation that the "love everyone no matter what" has completely swallowed up the whole concept of "God has standards of behavior that you're expected to meet." |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 11:00:02 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe, but for every one good one it seems like you get 50 with short grey hair, wearing weird outfits, and being all SJW. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Our family left one of the largest UMC's in Oklahoma last year due to a liberal flameout from LGBTQwhatever along with the massive onslaught of female clergy and a new female Pastor. the bible specifically says that a female cannot be head of a church. females are the back bone of the church in function but not in those roles. it got too bizarre. I hear she gives a real fire and brimstone message once a month. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 11:01:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where does covering up massive sexual abuse and protecting offenders figure into that? Many protestant denominations change course every time a committee assembles |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 11:03:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what is the most conservative Christian Denomination now? Methodists are all about gays and open borders now. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 11:05:34 AM EDT
[#46]
This thread is full of generalizations and hyperbole.
I married into Methodism. I was reared Southern Baptist. Our church is a small church in a small town with a dozen other churches. Our congregation is 100% conservative, just like our town. This "split" has been talked about so much over the past few years most people are tired of hearing about it, and just want it done and over. Our current preacher is an Air Force brat farm boy. One of my previous pastors is a current Army Chaplain. My in-laws Methodist pastor conceal carries while he is in the pulpit. My in-laws family has/had two methodist pastors, both in more metropolitan areas. One was more libertarian than anything, he passed away recently. My aunt-in-law, the other, is very liberal. My point is, the views of an individual church will reflect the views of a community. Otherwise, there would be no church. With all that said, I have served on various committees and have become disillusioned with the UMC as a whole. The apportionments each church has to pay, or as I call them a franchise fee, are onerous and a burden for a small church. The publicity that the UMC generates nationwide is not conducive to a vibrant church in a small conservative town, even if the entire congregation and it's preacher share the same views as the baptists across the street. I've already told my wife we will change churches depending on how things go. We will most likely try the Congregational Methodist church down the street from our church. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 11:10:03 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. ECUSA had the same situation 10 or 12 years ago. My parents congregation broke off and wound up under I believe the Anglican Diocese of Uganda for a time. We were warned about this 2000 years ago: "You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God." James 4:4 |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 11:10:53 AM EDT
[#48]
Paul's letter to Timothy covers this succinctly (2 Ti 4:3 ESV).
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 11:20:16 AM EDT
[#49]
Look at two numbers:
- About 3% of Americans are gay. - About 60% of Americans do not attend church regularly. The Methodist debate is whether gay Americans should be employed as clergy. This shows how truly disconnected the church leadership is. Instead of arguing about the rights of those 3%, why aren't the Methodists arguing about how to get those 60% of Americans back in church? The Methodist church doesn't seem to care about the concerns of 97% of the community. That's why so many people don't attend church. |
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Posted: 2/5/2019 11:27:20 AM EDT
[#50]
it is a dark day for Christianity in America when the churches are known more for the social causes they support rather than the faith they say they believe.
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