Like Sodom and Gomorrah?  Sin is sin, but some are Abominations.

Leviticus 18:22 King James Version (KJV)

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I’ve been a member of the UMC since I was about 13.

I quit attending when I saw they said nothing to their members who had affairs that were well known about in our small town, but shunned me for divorcing my POS husband.

You can’t have it both ways.

Eating bacon is also an abomination in the Mosaic Law (Lev. 14) - now go read Acts 10, Hebrews 8, Romans 10 and Galatians.

BTW, so is charging interest, and a few things that Jesus expounded on in Matthew 5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_(Bible)

Only a few things are called out as "sins that cry out to heaven", the sin of sodom being one.

Ok, so you're assuming that means what, other than temporal consequences? PS, the sins of S&G went beyond just buggery.

Then there's Hebrews 10:10-18.

The problem is that people read Romans 1 and ignore Romans 2-3 on top of 4-5.

I just recently started going to a Methodist Church and brought this conference up to the pastor. I printed the very thick proposal or whatever its called and planned to read it. My pastor and I agreed that the church should follow the Holy Spirit guidance into the truth which is in the Word.  If this convention goes against that then it will be a very sad day. Time will tell.

Even the most fundamentalist free will full gospel baptist church I attended had a healthy dose of women in the background. Quite a contrast to the UMC in which I grew up, where the only active man was the pastor.

I know people who are UMC that carry also. We're talking small town, rural churches. However, their church falls under that "united" umbrella, so while the local congregation may feel one way, the church hierarchy feels quite another. I have questioned them on why they don't break away from the UMC and become independent since the views are so different. I have never gotten a satisfactory answer.

How can a preacher lead and teach under God's authority while they are in open rebellion to God's orders?

What do "reformation" mean?

The Roman Catholic church had long adopted paganism and ignored Christ by the time that happened.

Besides, I hear there is a Go-Fund-Me to raise money to buy Martin Luther an indulgence .....  

From earlier in the thread, it sounds like the denomination owns the real property.  That would be a big reason.

So, money (or material, anyway) before principle? I'm sorry, but my response would be "take your building and shove it, I'm going to find a real church to attend"

Left the UMC over 10 years ago over the SJW BS. It is rotten to the core.

...and this is how simple it is to let the UMC know how you feel about their politicization of the church.

They cant.................that is the real issue

It shouldn't be any surprise that if you allow the Devil to come inside the house, he will corrupt everything inside and wont willingly leave

In 1966, her public words were less audacious. “The girl who doesn’t want to go out and shake hands can type letters or do general office work,” Ms. Rodham told The Wellesley News in an appeal for Republican volunteers. Soon, though, Ms. Rodham’s views began veering leftward. She became opposed to the Vietnam War, putting her increasingly in conflict with her conservative father, Hugh Rodham.

“My opinions on most human conditions are being liberalized,” Ms. Rodham wrote in 1965 to Don Jones, a progressive Methodist minister from back home who had influenced her thinking.

“The combination of bleeding heart liberal and mental conservative is the inevitable conclusion one arrives at after following and pondering political events,” she wrote.





If you go to 9:00, she talks about the UMC and its role in Social Justice, how Don Jones was her youth minister and helped form her views on the world, how putting hope, faith, and action into social justice activities, we can make the world better by living "the gospel".

This coming from a woman with a trail of bodies behind her that would make Beria blush in adoration.

In a key United Methodist General Conference vote setting voting priorities for the next three days, delegates preferred the Traditional Plan backed by global evangelicals over the liberalizing One Church Plan backed by most bishops.
The Traditional Plan, which got nearly 56%, reaffirms current United Methodist teaching on marriage as male and female. One Church Plan, which got nearly 49%, would overturn that teaching and compel local congregations to choose their own definition of marriage.
https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/02/24/good-news-from-united-methodist-general-conference/

How the hell did they get a vote total of 105%???

That sounds like an excuse not to go to church, not a reason. A person that truly wants to seek the Lord and worship corporately will find a good bible preaching church that isn’t a heretic. People that say “oh the church is full of hypocrites, child molestors, and gay pastors” aren’t likely interested in finding a church anyway.

Source, other than "Army contractor guy?"

They didn't. They voted on one plan and then voted on the other. Which means there's people who voted for both.

Anyway, they'll just vote again next time until they get the right answer. Then no more votes will be taken and the issue will be considered decided.

Liberals are involved.

Ranked Choice voting?

Delegates voted to rank the priorities going forward.  The Traditional Plan (no gay clergy allowed) got 459 votes.  The One Church Plan (congregations votes on whether or not to accept gay clergy) got 403 votes.  In effect, the TP is the #2 priority for discussion and the OC is #5.  Incidentally, the top priority (518 votes) is a petition on how to address unfunded pension liabilities for clergy in churches that will break away.  That right there tells you to stick a fork in the UMC as we know it today.

Hillary was supposed to seal the deal.  When she got beat they came fucking unglued.

I used to not believe all the bull shit conspiracy theory's that I heard.  I said people had the tin foil too tight.  But now I am not so sure.

Things I know
Bush one and two are part of it.  They both pushed the ball down the field.

Clinton and his wife are a big part of it.

Obama was the star running back.

It has to do with infiltrating Churches, schools, education, government.

It involves killing babies, pedophilia, devil worshiping, and Mooslims.

It is a world wide thing.

Trump is against it.  Unlikely Hero.

 I agree

The Presbyterian, Methodist, The united Church of Christ,  Episcopalian, and probably the Lutheran too.

Nothing is worse for a church than when Satan' wolves creep in.

I left the Brethren Church about 50 years ago when I discovered they were supporting the same Marxist terrorists who were murdering our missionaries. Pastor had no problem with that. I immediately left the church. Grandpa was a deacon and asked me what was going on. I asked him if he knew our church was supporting terrorists who were killing our missionaries. He had no idea and had a meeting with the pastor. When the meeting was over my grandparents left too. We joined far more Biblically squared away churches and have spiritually grown from the experience. These terrorists now rule Zimbabwe.

My mother years ago left the Methodist Church because of the blatant compromise. The problem is not Christianity but the wolves that creep in unawares. We have to be on guard always and not be afraid to call them out.

That's the Chicago Leftist way.

Poor Phoebe...

What is the issues with a BLT ?

The problem is the wolves who have crept in unawares and corrupted the church. Lewis is one such wolf and some in the congregation are knowledgable enough in the Scriptures to see her and her followers for who they are.

It's not unexpected.

2 Cor 11
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Sounds like the pro-gay plan failed.  

Vote to pass #TheSimplePlan has failed. #iagc2019 #umcgc #GC2019

Iowa Conference of The United Methodist Church  (@IowaUMChurch) February 25, 2019

When I was a kid back in the 90's, my family attended a large Methodist church (really a megachurch by the standards of that era), and one of the biggest reasons we stopped was we noticed lots of homosexual couples and apparently the church had taken a position not to confront them about their lifestyle. I'm all for homosexuals going to church, but I'm not for the church condoning an actively homosexual lifestyle. It's no different than any other sexual sin, and quite frankly it pisses me off that their degenerate urges are somehow placed above those of heterosexuals. Lots of heterosexuals deal with some pretty messed up urges (just look at internet porn). The urge to commit adultery I would say is universal. So we're all attracted to people we can't be with, which makes homosexuality no different. Just like a pastor would tell a straight man he can't sleep with someone he's not married to, he should always be willing to tell a homosexual that he can't have relations with another man.

And I agree 100%.

Traditional passed its first hurdle. Should go through tomorrow.

Evidently the African churches were united against the pro-gay plans.  They had a small percentage of votes, but enough to make the difference in the total.

When Methodist leaders were planning/funding Africa mission work decades ago, they could not have dreamed they were planting the seeds that would eventually save the church from homosexual pastors!!

Superjanitor, I can answer that for you.  Somewhere back in the late 60's I think, the UMC decided that the UMC owned your local church building, even though your local members paid for every thing.  Now if you try to split off, you don't get to keep the building, unless you pay UMC full market for it.  This needs to be tested in court.

they recently closed my home church and sold it to the cemetery board adjacent to the church building for $10.  That church has died, the cemetery literally is more alive than the church.  UMC closes dozens of churches in Illinois each year.  But the ones that are successful are worth money, but few can afford to leave.

This LBBTQ thing will destroy the UMC, which I think is the purpose of the whole thing.  Conservatives have been leaving by foot and by casket for my entire life.   It is my impression that conservative UMC churches are the ones that are thriving, but the clergy and the UMC hierarchy are super liberal.

BTW I was forced out of my UMC over concealed carry and LGBTQ.  They like to make you choose, thinking you will come to your senses and choose the "right" choice.  So much for tolerance!

In what form does the war in the UMC continue?

I love where it specifically says where not even to eat with them! Let alone allow them in the congregation.

International delegates (mainly Africa and the Philippines) make up 43% of delegates at the current GC. A dominant force.

Yup.  And IME the majority of those who are the types who rarely or never attend mass, take the religious tenets seriously or consider them more than mere suggestions, place ideology and such over faith, or are largely ignorant of the faith, whatever their attendance is like, are Left-leaning at least.  On the other hand, IME the majority of those who understand and accept Catholic doctrines and the faith, who regularly attend mass, and who take their beliefs seriously and prioritize them, are typically Right-leaning to some extent or another, and can often be very hardcore conservatives.  I think it's no coincidence that many of the foundational expositers of conservative thought in America and in Europe have been devoutly Catholic (a significant number were Jewish, too, although one of them converted to Catholicism at the end).  Christian orthodoxy tends to lead to a conservative mindset and provides a solid foundation for that sort of political philosophy.

A lot of parishes seriously neglect confession and penance.  Many have completely eliminated the penitential rite from the mass.  Some priests around here even preach something in this regard that could be from some wishy-washy Protestant church (with the implication that confession is basically meaningless).  If you're lucky, confession might be available face-to-face (no confessional, or it's not used) for two hours a week.  Many parishes don't even offer an hour, or are by appointment only.  Many parishioners don't understand the doctrines or take them seriously, and take communion when they shouldn't, and tend not to bother going to confession at all.  Those who do often find that they have to seek out other parishes if they want to go to confession.  I had to do that before going to my current parish.  My current parish has communion available every day.  Half hour or more after every mass during the week and on the weekend, and more as needed.  During Holy Week the priests will often stay overnight until they have to start presiding over mass the next day if they have to, and they often do, because the lines can be out the door all night and all day.  A person might have to wait hours, even with three priests hearing confessions.  A lot of people from other parishes go to mine for confession due to its availability there and lack of availability at their home parishes or elsewhere; some have to drive pretty far to do it.  It's really sad that that's the case.

I got a chuckle once when a couple of the priests said that a vote for a Democrat is a vote for evil.  But they was right.  One of them also had a nun from Egypt address everyone (really unusual, as women are typically not allowed at or around the altar at my parish) and she proceeded to talk about the burning of churches and convents, persecution of Christians, etc.  At the end the priests asks her something quietly and she nods.  Afterwards he said he asked her if it was Muslims doing all of that and she had replied in the affirmative.  He then said something like, "And that's what Obama calls the religion of peace."  That day during the prayers of the faithful one of them was for the conversion of all Muslims to Christianity.  A lot of folks plus the other priests at my old parish would have been apopletic.

Anyhow, getting back to the matter at hand, this phenomena of people being nominally Christian but not practicing seriously or honestly is all too widespread and can be seen across the board.  Every denomination has this issue today.  It's really sad, and unfortunately many clergy have decided in many denominations to go against orthodox or traditional Christian beliefs, and they are not good shepherds; if anything, they are wolves in shepherd's clothing, leading the flock to hell.  And so we have here in this thread yet another example where it has infected the highest levels of a denomination.  As a Catholic, we aren't there yet, but some are sure as hell trying, and our Pope is not an aid to those like myself in this matter.  The radicals constitute a rot that must be extirpated.

The consensus is either of two scenarios for the pro-gay folks:
1. They'll try this same crap, and bring it up for a vote again in a few years.  
2. They'll split off and create their own church.

I hope it's #2.  And I sincerely wish them well.

It's way too far removed from Christian orthodoxy to be considered Christian.  Heck, some Protestant denominations are so far off the reservation that this likely applies to them as well (like the church to which Obama belongs).  It's to Christianity what Christianity or Islam are to Judaism.

My town of 2500 used to have two UMC churches.  One boarded up the windows about ten years ago and the building just sits there now.  Property is essentially worthless as it is surrounded by trailer parks.

That said, I'm honestly surprised some small group hasn't bought the building as this county has more churches than gas pumps.

Yea. Right now Mrs TB and I are watching this mornings proceedings on youtube. My brain hurts listening to these people talk. The traditional plan moves in to plenary tomorrow.

I pray for my Methodist friends.  Their church is in turmoil, but their God is not.  

Yeah, pretty much.  Liberal and conservative parishes can be like night and day, including stylistically, politically, and doctrinally.