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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:41:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Personally I don't follow *any* religions but in my experience Mormons make great employees and neighbors. I have no opinion of the church as a whole but I can say that my individual interactions have been positive. Especially since the folks that I've dealt with have been decent and polite enough to stop trying to proselytize when asked. I can't say the same for some other religions. I've been to Temple Square and have to admit that it's beautiful and the folks were super nice. The penthouse for Jesus is an odd touch but then again some folks worship monkeys and deify cows so who am I to point fingers? The bottom line - I don't care what you believe as long as you aren't effecting me or mine. Calling *any* religion a cult is an insult - to my mind none of them make any more sense than any other. They are all systems of belief based on faith - and that's cool as long as you're not trying to force your beliefs on me. As far as guns go - conceals means concealed. If your particular invisible friend has an issue with that then take it up with him/her/it. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:42:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's my problem with it J: the church has effectively put me in a logic box. I want to follow the rules, but..... article of faith 12:We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. or James : Faith without works is dead (I realize this is a gross oversimplification of a complex gospel topic, that's not actually about guns. It's summarized by "if I gunman comes into my church and shoots at us, God will not save us if I don't do my best myself first. I can't count on God to help if I'm just sitting there hoping it all works out alright) so i'm stuck. Which one do I violate? I'm going to be a non-compliant member no matter what I do. That said, it may be worth your time to ask your bishop and stake president about whether this means that the Church will assume direct responsibility for providing for the safety of the members during meetings. 
Of course, the reality is that the risk of a mass shooting at one of our meeting houses remains exceedingly low, but that isn't the main point and I still think the question is worth posing to the local leaders. Debating asking the question myself. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:42:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe start a thread about how the LDS church controls people then... this one seems to be about guns being prohibited in LDS churches. Being a Utahan myself I can say pretty confidently that our local gun culture is strong, LDS meeting houses are surrounded by gun owning households and I'm not surprised to hear reports from church-going LDS ARFcom'ers that the "no guns in church" rule is widely (and wisely) ignored so it's still as safe as ever to go to church in Utah. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I forgot that Arfcom is all about feelz now. Too bad for the hunter, my grandmother's side of the family is Mormon. I grew up around the church, and editing my post here won't stop me from speaking the truth elsewhere. There's good people in the LDS church, but the church controls them, their relationships, and their money. Being a Utahan myself I can say pretty confidently that our local gun culture is strong, LDS meeting houses are surrounded by gun owning households and I'm not surprised to hear reports from church-going LDS ARFcom'ers that the "no guns in church" rule is widely (and wisely) ignored so it's still as safe as ever to go to church in Utah. The Catholic Diocese of Fort Worth is taking new steps to improve security, including taking down signs that warn people not to carry guns on church property.
"When you do that, you're effectively advertising a gun-free zone,” Perez said. “And when you advertise a gun-free zone, you're advertising also that your location is vulnerable."- Catholic Diocese of Fort Worth Removes Signs Banning Guns on Church Grounds It's good to see so many young people raising their voices against gun violence, just as it is inspiring to see them at the March For Life every year. We must be pro-life in all of life's beautiful forms and stages. God, give us the gift of peace. - Bishop Bill Wack, Diocese of PensacolaTallahassee |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:44:03 PM EDT
[#4]
My old boss was a Mormon and an absolutely wonderful guy. He was VERY pro 2A and told me that generally Mormons are pro 2A- something about always being persecuted.
I guess this move kinda surprises me. Maybe SJW are taking over? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:44:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are an active member of The Church, and can’t see why TheChurches lawyers have written this policy the way they did... I don’t know what to tell you, bro. It is a catch-22. The catch is that The Church has a layer of liability protection. And you can follow the “policy” or not. I do my thing. Until metal detectors get installed, it is what it is: words that are absolutely meaningless but satisfy lawyers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so i'm stuck. Which one do I violate? I'm going to be a non-compliant member no matter what I do. It is a catch-22. The catch is that The Church has a layer of liability protection. And you can follow the “policy” or not. I do my thing. Until metal detectors get installed, it is what it is: words that are absolutely meaningless but satisfy lawyers. it's stupid. ETA:@shane333 , oh I WILL be having a conversation with him about it. I suspect he's already bracing for it. I'm also going to renew my request for a waiver on the whole "no drinking" thing.  . I need it now more than ever. So far, he's denied it. 
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:45:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand where you're coming from, but you might be overthinking it a little. Your standing in the Church won't come into question if you carry into a building, even if somebody notices. This is a matter of policy, not doctrine. That said, it may be worth your time to ask your bishop and stake president about whether this means that the Church will assume direct responsibility for providing for the safety of the members during meetings.
Of course, the reality is that the risk of a mass shooting at one of our meeting houses remains exceedingly low, but that isn't the main point and I still think the question is worth posing to the local leaders. Debating asking the question myself. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:47:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Non-Issue for me, concealed means concealed. I doubt anything would be said in my ward building is someone noticed I was carrying.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:48:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want to have the discussion via PM, I'm happy to do that. I'm not nuking my account while your moderator is hovering overhead with the account lock button. If I'm going to nuke my account it'll be for something worthwhile. I don’t want anyone to run afoul. “Your moderator,” is made-up. I’ve had a back-and forth with a moderator in this very thread... We can all be cool, bro. I don’t have any problems with anyone... |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:48:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My old boss was a Mormon and an absolutely wonderful guy. He was VERY pro 2A and told me that generally Mormons are pro 2A- something about always being persecuted. I guess this move kinda surprises me. Maybe SJW are taking over? Also, as the Church itself has become increasingly international, I suspect that it wants to avoid an image of promoting firearms among its members to avoid potential issues with governments overseas. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:48:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, I see it. But it puts me in the unfortunate and stupid position of having to guess at the meaning of all these rules, and try and decide WHICH of these rules I should and shouldn't (wink wink) follow. it's stupid. And if your branch president or bishop or whoever just winks and nods about you carrying, well, there's that increased liability for all that I mentioned earlier. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:49:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
False. That might be their excuse, but its not true. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Current church leadership sees this as an insurance problem. Officially "banning" guns keeps premium costs down. That might be their excuse, but its not true. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:49:31 PM EDT
[#12]
The only thing more fucking boring than the ultra religious is militant atheists
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:49:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you think it would be ok if I dressed up as an Indian and carried a bow & arrow? That is not illegal. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:49:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I come from a family that included three races. I'm white. As far as "history" is concerned there isn't any organized religion that can't be considered racist at some point. History is extremely important. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Knowing history is crucial. Even the negative stuff. I'm white. As far as "history" is concerned there isn't any organized religion that can't be considered racist at some point. History is extremely important. For all the personal negatives I have with LDS dogma. I believe it is honestly one of the better organized religions in the USA and the membership for the most part are honest good folks that I have no issues with. The focus on helping others, family, and community is amazing. My issues with the LDS church is the same issues I have with Catholic Dogma. My relationship with God is between him and I. No one else. Man is corrupt and as such, anything man writes or preaches and claims it to be the word of God is something I view with skepticism since throughout Man's history. The many have claimed such horrible acts to be allowed in the Name of God and as if they were ordered from his words. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:50:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
thats what you "see" when they are face to face with you. behind your back they are throwing you under the bus for being a godless heathen that will burn in hell. that has been my experience with overly religious types. they all think they are better than the non-(inset religion of choice). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Personally I don't follow *any* religions but in my experience Mormons make great employees and neighbors. I have no opinion of the church as a whole but I can say that my individual interactions have been positive. Especially since the folks that I've dealt with have been decent and polite enough to stop trying to proselytize when asked. I can't say the same for some other religions. I've been to Temple Square and have to admit that it's beautiful and the folks were super nice. The penthouse for Jesus is an odd touch but then again some folks worship monkeys and deify cows so who am I to point fingers? The bottom line - I don't care what you believe as long as you aren't effecting me or mine. Calling *any* religion a cult is an insult - to my mind none of them make any more sense than any other. They are all systems of belief based on faith - and that's cool as long as you're not trying to force your beliefs on me. As far as guns go - conceals means concealed. If your particular invisible friend has an issue with that then take it up with him/her/it. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:55:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: thats what you "see" when they are face to face with you. behind your back they are throwing you under the bus for being a godless heathen that will burn in hell. that has been my experience with overly religious types. they all think they are better than the non-(inset religion of choice). |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:55:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want to have the discussion via PM, I'm happy to do that. I'm not nuking my account while your moderator is hovering overhead with the account lock button. If I'm going to nuke my account it'll be for something worthwhile. Civil Discussion and Debate is allowed as long as it is in a polite and respectful manner. If you can only debate issues in a inappropriate manner then yes, you will be reprimanded. As a Mod, my job is to not take sides and make sure everyone is allowed to speak their piece. But with that comes to make sure the CoC is followed. It isn't hard to debate and discuss something in a civil manner. ~MIAMI_JBT |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:56:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Current church leadership sees this as an insurance problem. Officially "banning" guns keeps premium costs down. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:57:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, I see it. But it puts me in the unfortunate and stupid position of having to guess at the meaning of all these rules, and try and decide WHICH of these rules I should and shouldn't (wink wink) follow. it's stupid. ETA:@shane333 , oh I WILL be having a conversation with him about it. I suspect he's already bracing for it. I'm also going to renew my request for a waiver on the whole "no drinking" thing. . I need it now more than ever. So far, he's denied it. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:57:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "basic tenets" are faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Spirit. I mean, if that's what you wanna try to impress God with, whatever, but at least be totally upfront with it. Fact is that you can't claim the LDS is some bastion of conservatism when the leadership does this. I suspect though, that eventually they'll cave to societal pressure (and the financial pressure that comes with it) and eventually let gays be bishops. May take a little while, but they've already established that they'll change doctrine in order to improve marketing. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:58:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand where you're coming from, but you might be overthinking it a little. Your standing in the Church won't come into question if you carry into a building, even if somebody notices. This is a matter of policy, not doctrine. That said, it may be worth your time to ask your bishop and stake president about whether this means that the Church will assume direct responsibility for providing for the safety of the members during meetings.
Of course, the reality is that the risk of a mass shooting at one of our meeting houses remains exceedingly low, but that isn't the main point and I still think the question is worth posing to the local leaders. Debating asking the question myself. Ugly... But you should definitely ask and return and report.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:59:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Why can't anything "Mormon" be moved to the Religion sub-forum. There is no reason for it to be in GD.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:59:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As each generation becomes further and further separated by time and culture from the pioneer era, we may see a shift from the culturally pro-2A influences. I still know tons of very pro-2A folks within the Church membership, but how strong that influence is varies from location to location. Also, as the Church itself has become increasingly international, I suspect that it wants to avoid an image of promoting firearms among its members to avoid potential issues with governments overseas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My old boss was a Mormon and an absolutely wonderful guy. He was VERY pro 2A and told me that generally Mormons are pro 2A- something about always being persecuted. I guess this move kinda surprises me. Maybe SJW are taking over? Also, as the Church itself has become increasingly international, I suspect that it wants to avoid an image of promoting firearms among its members to avoid potential issues with governments overseas. They spend it on frivolous things. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 3:59:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was speculating. They wouldn't announce that even if it were true. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't worked with every insurance company out there, but I don't know any that will cut your rates if you make your space gun free. On the contrary, the big push now for church insurers is writing policies that covers armed congregants in a church. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:00:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...and the Mormon prophets, and all the things they say you're required to do. I mean, if that's what you wanna try to impress God with, whatever, but at least be totally upfront with it. Fact is that you can't claim the LDS is some bastion of conservatism when the leadership does this. I suspect though, that eventually they'll cave to societal pressure (and the financial pressure that comes with it) and eventually let gays be bishops. May take a little while, but they've already established that they'll change doctrine in order to improve marketing. Maybe you think living the commandments is a way to impress God. Mormons take the more Biblical approach found in John 14:15 and obey the commandments because we love God. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:01:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I have heard, the Church does not carry insurance. It is self-insured. I was speculating and being somewhat facetious. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:04:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow. Project much? Maybe you think living the commandments is a way to impress God. Mormons take the more Biblical approach found in John 14:15 and obey the commandments because we love God. My point is, go ahead and good luck with that, and I'm wagering that the LDS leadership isn't going to stop here. That's it. No need to feel threatened, I'm just some guy on the internet. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:04:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Lambs for slaughter.
Sad. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:06:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...and the Mormon prophets, and all the things they say you're required to do. I mean, if that's what you wanna try to impress God with, whatever, but at least be totally upfront with it. Fact is that you can't claim the LDS is some bastion of conservatism when the leadership does this. I suspect though, that eventually they'll cave to societal pressure (and the financial pressure that comes with it) and eventually let gays be bishops. May take a little while, but they've already established that they'll change doctrine in order to improve marketing. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:06:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Smith's followers were run out because they were thugs themselves - everyone else got tired of their shit. But carry on and let's see how many friends you can make in this thread by you being you. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:09:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After the gay vote in California, a group of gay folks attempted to disrupt meetings at meeting houses. Their goal: film themselves getting assaulted. Sue The Church. That is one known example. There are more. If you are an active member of The Church, and can’t see why TheChurches lawyers have written this policy the way they did... I don’t know what to tell you, bro. It is a catch-22. The catch is that The Church has a layer of liability protection. And you can follow the “policy” or not. I do my thing. Until metal detectors get installed, it is what it is: words that are absolutely meaningless but satisfy lawyers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so i'm stuck. Which one do I violate? I'm going to be a non-compliant member no matter what I do. Their goal: film themselves getting assaulted. Sue The Church. That is one known example. There are more. If you are an active member of The Church, and can’t see why TheChurches lawyers have written this policy the way they did... I don’t know what to tell you, bro. It is a catch-22. The catch is that The Church has a layer of liability protection. And you can follow the “policy” or not. I do my thing. Until metal detectors get installed, it is what it is: words that are absolutely meaningless but satisfy lawyers. Leftward trending policies like this is exactly why I have very little to do with the catholic church anymore as well . |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:09:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has been their policy for a long time here in Utah. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:14:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't forget barring people of color from the Priesthood from the mid-1800s until 1978. People of color could not be ordained to offices in the Priesthood nor could they participate in temple ordinances besides baptisms for the dead. For a time in the 1960s and 1970s, they were not even allowed to perform baptisms for the dead. Since black men of African descent could not hold the priesthood, they were excluded from holding leadership roles and performing these rituals. Temple ordinances are necessary for members who wish to receive the endowment and marriage sealings which are necessary for exaltation, and most black members could not enjoy these privileges during their lifetimes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Mormons got soft. I've noticed the paradigm shifting since the time I was active in the LDS church as a kid/teen, and now. They forgot that the government of Missouri literally had open season on them and they ran west for their lives--a journey in which many died from dehydration, starvation, or exposure--only to settle in a barren salt-covered desert wasteland, were denied statehood until they changed their religious practices, and had their prophet and his brother murdered in a jail after unlawful imprisonment. Short memories. Since black men of African descent could not hold the priesthood, they were excluded from holding leadership roles and performing these rituals. Temple ordinances are necessary for members who wish to receive the endowment and marriage sealings which are necessary for exaltation, and most black members could not enjoy these privileges during their lifetimes. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:15:49 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explanations. The Latter-Day Church has a lot more liability and a lot more property and assets than most other comparable organizations. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Excuses. LDS carries no more liability for guns on their properties than any other church or business. The Latter-Day Church has a lot more liability and a lot more property and assets than most other comparable organizations. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:16:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Latter-Day Church is very centrally-controlled. There is very little local autonomy on policy and procedure. This “policy” has been in place —essentially— for a very long time. It gives The Church legal protection, while most folks just ignore it... I guess a local leader could ask someone to leave if they are carrying... in The Church leadership is always from the local congregation, so the folks would all know each other... Which means the policy gets largely ignored... |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:17:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Non-Issue for me, concealed means concealed. I doubt anything would be said in my ward building is someone noticed I was carrying. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:17:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can promise you that if any member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were to ever forget that there was a time when blacks generally didn't receive the priesthood, somebody would come along shortly to remind us so that we never forget. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm Catholic.... the Church isn't squeaky clean either. All of them have issues. Especially when it comes to Civil Rights. The Catholic Church is also anti-gun and Pope Francis has publicly supported Socialist Policies. Knowing history is crucial. Even the negative stuff.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:19:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Knock off the Mormon bashing.
If you want to debate Mormon theology and/or history, start a thread for that. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:22:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yay, another Mormon bashing thread! I swear we should have a Mormon bashing sub forum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yay, another Mormon bashing thread! I swear we should have a Mormon bashing sub forum. No kidding! Its getting to be a weekly event around here. So much hatred being spewed towards followers of the LDS faith; towards your fellow men? Men and women who would defend your rights and freedoms to worship as you choose. Hatred against people who have done absolutely nothing to you personally?  I ask you, What Would Jesus Do? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:23:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After living in UT for over 5 years, I would agree 100% with this statement. And I worked in Tech, so we're not talking about a bunch of guys (or girls) who look like Rambo. Even the petite girly-looking women will gladly speak of their weekend at the range with their pistols and AR's before inviting you to the stakehouse or giving you a jar of salsa made at the LDS canning plant that she volunteers at. I've lived and worked in a half a dozen states, from east to west, and haven't met a group of people so into firearms, self-protection, and non-hunting shooting. I'm Christian, so I don't agree or believe in the particulars of their theology, but from my years living in SLC, I can say as a group of people, they make great neighbors and friends, and they've got the 2nd amendment and self-reliance things down pat.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:23:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. I asked one of my previous bishops about this policy years ago. His response, "If you are concealed carrying, how would anyone know?" 
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:23:43 PM EDT
[#42]
To mock someone's religion because they are against 2A in their buildings is a little petty.
Concealed means concealed. Some churches I went to are the same, no firearms allowed inside. But the Holy Spirit told me otherwise.. 
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:24:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No you don't. One of the Commandments is not to add or take away from them (Deuteronomy 4:2 & 12:32). My point is, go ahead and good luck with that, and I'm wagering that the LDS leadership isn't going to stop here. That's it. No need to feel threatened, I'm just some guy on the internet. Can God give further commandments through prophets? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:25:39 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Non-issue, as has been for quite some time. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:29:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/anim_lol.gif No kidding! Its getting to be a weekly event around here. So much hatred being spewed towards followers of the LDS faith; towards your fellow men? Men and women who would defend your rights and freedoms to worship as you choose. Hatred against people who have done absolutely nothing to you personally? https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/2016/idunno.gif I ask you, What Would Jesus Do? Also as someone whose family is Mormon, it isn't bashing as much as fact based criticism. I'm also happy to discuss the hypocrisy and failures of the Presbyterian Church if needed. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:32:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to the Mods. Keeping the thread on-track... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't forget barring people of color from the Priesthood from the mid-1800s until 1978. . Keeping the thread on-track... |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:34:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Meanwhile, we had a church security meeting with ~25 guys, at least half of which are armed, yesterday....
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:38:36 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think most of the people in here criticizing the Church have also said how nice the followers were. My problem isn't with the membership, its with the LDS leadership and theology. Also as someone whose family is Mormon, it isn't bashing as much as fact based criticism. I'm also happy to discuss the hypocrisy and failures of the Presbyterian Church if needed. And I have family members who are Mormon, who will not even talk or associate with me. But I do have colleagues who are Mormon and they are really great to work with. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:39:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s not a law in Utah. They just ask members to not carry. And everyone ignores it and carries anyways Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s not a law in Utah. They just ask members to not carry. And everyone ignores it and carries anyways 53-5-710 Cross-references to concealed firearm permit restrictions.(1) A person with a permit of any kind to carry a concealed firearm may not carry a concealed firearm in the following locations:
(c) any house of worship or in any private residence where dangerous weapons are prohibited as provided in Section 76-10-530 76-10-530. Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence -- Notice -- Penalty. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 4:41:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, as the Church itself has become increasingly international, I suspect that it wants to avoid an image of promoting firearms among its members to avoid potential issues with governments overseas. The legislature is still very pro-gun for the most part, and still majority practicing LDS. However, the issue will now be used as ammunition against those Mormons who are middling on guns (or outright want them gone), and the Church's influence will be felt in our local politics as a result. |
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