[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Mormons - explain this to me (Page 4 of 11)
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Are we talking BYU vs Notre Dame football. 
If that's the case, Catholics. Quoted:
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Here's the real question. Are Catholics better than Mormons? And go. Are we talking BYU vs Notre Dame football.
If that's the case, Catholics. That hasnt been the case since even before Mormonism was even a religion. Seriously, Notre Dame has been trash since the invention of the forward pass. |
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Rule 42 of the internet: If it exists, there is porn of it. Quoted:
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Shit this thread reminds me: I was talking to someone about Mormons and I wondered if Temple Garment porn was a thing. Off to research..... ETA: Yes it is a thing. Rule 42 of the internet: If it exists, there is porn of it. It's Rule 34. |
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It's a native american site talking about group X in their DNA, now look up who group X belongs to. Quoted:
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Except no where in that article does it say that. It's a native american site talking about group X in their DNA, now look up who group X belongs to. You understand that it goes back before the Jewish faith even existed? From what I read researchers have traced it back to present day Iran, though other researchers suggest that maybe it originated in Canada and those with that DNA type originally came from Canada. Sorry pal, but it proves nothing in support of the Book of Mormon. Besides it goes back thousands of years before the Book of Mormon says the Native Americans of North America would have left Israel. |
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Haplogroup X is the Jewish DNA, from a quick search from what appears to be a non biased source. https://nativeheritageproject.com/2016/01/28/native-american-haplogroup-x2a-solutrean-hebrew-or-beringian/ Quoted:
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I'm sure somebody more studious, devout, whatever than I am will chime in, but the short answer to your question is yes. In the Book of Mormon the Lamanites essentially wipe out the Nephites. The Book of Mormon ends around 400AD and it is a commonly held belief amongst Mormons that Native Americans are descendents from the Lamanites. Having said that, I think I've read that genetic research has disproven that a bit and claims Native Americans are not of Middle Eastern descent (i.e. Israelites). Negative, the Algonquian speaking tribes have Jewish DNA. Proof? Haplogroup X is the Jewish DNA, from a quick search from what appears to be a non biased source. https://nativeheritageproject.com/2016/01/28/native-american-haplogroup-x2a-solutrean-hebrew-or-beringian/ I see your unbiased link and offer one with a counter view... Also I'm not seeing any indication of Jewish ancestry in the Native American population using currently available Y chromosome data. Link to info |
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Utah Mormons hate him. Cause he's "rude" and his wife is unrepressed. you should be aware that Utah mormons are largely a bunch of stuck up a-holes compared to normal mormons in other places. They're a little overly righteous here. Normal Mormons in Idaho and other non-utah-county places LOVE Trump Quoted:
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I guess I can pose this question here: Why do Mormons seem to hate Trump so much, and is it because his wife has sexy pics on the interwebs? (I know I live in Utah so I should know but I try not to ask people around me the things I would ask on arfcom) I'm LDS and so is a large portion of the area I live in. I don't know of anyone here that is anti Trump. Same tone I'm getting from the LDS community in western Nevada. Utah Mormons hate him. Cause he's "rude" and his wife is unrepressed. you should be aware that Utah mormons are largely a bunch of stuck up a-holes compared to normal mormons in other places. They're a little overly righteous here. Normal Mormons in Idaho and other non-utah-county places LOVE Trump Yep! Most UT Mormons are a little over the top. Dont judge the church by the way they act.
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I was reading about the Mormon religion, and had a question. Founded by Joseph Smith, the faith drew its first converts while Smith was dictating the text of The Book of Mormon from golden plates which had reformed Egyptian writing on them which he said he found buried after being directed to their location by the Angel Moroni. The book described itself as a chronicle of early indigenous peoples of the Americas, known as the Nephites, portraying them as believing Israelites, who had a belief in Christ many hundred years before his birth. According to The Book of Mormon, the Nephites are one of four groups (including the Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites) which settled in the ancient Americas. The Nephites are described as a group of people that descended from or were associated with Nephi, the son of the prophet Lehi, who left Jerusalem at the urging of God c. 600 BC and traveled with his family to the Western Hemisphere, arriving in the Americas c. 589 BC. Does this mean that Nephites became Native Americans, or what is supposed to have happened to these people? One of a few things happened to the Nephites ultimately: * Genocide at the hands of Lamanites and Zoramites * Apostates and survivors integrated into Lamanites * Others who departed by sea in exceedingly large ships, built by a ship-builder named Hagoth The Book of Mormon describes hundreds of years of fighting, missionary work, apostasy, and pressure between the Lamanites and Nephites, with a general progression moving northward by the Nephites as the Lamanites attacked them continually. When Joseph Smith was preparing a group of men for Zion's Camp, he told them they were going to march directly through the heart of the land of the Nephites. That route they took goes directly through the center of gravity of the ancient Hopewell Native American civilization, which existed several hundred years BC and went to 400 A.D. up in the New England and Canadian region between the Great Lakes and Northeast US. Moroni, the last Nephite prophet, buried the golden plates and other items in the Hill Cumorah after 400 A.D., and these dates are recorded in the Book of Mormon. |
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One of a few things happened to the Nephites ultimately: * Genocide at the hands of Lamanites and Zoramites * Apostates and survivors integrated into Lamanites * Others who departed by sea in exceedingly large ships, built by a ship-builder named Hagoth The Book of Mormon describes hundreds of years of fighting, missionary work, apostasy, and pressure between the Lamanites and Nephites, with a general progression moving northward by the Nephites as the Lamanites attacked them continually. When Joseph Smith was preparing a group of men for Zion's Camp, he told them they were going to march directly through the heart of the land of the Nephites. That route they took goes directly through the center of gravity of the ancient Hopewell Native American civilization, which existed several hundred years BC and went to 400 A.D. up in the New England and Canadian region between the Great Lakes and Northeast US. Moroni, the last Nephite prophet, buried the golden plates and other items in the Hill Cumorah after 400 A.D., and these dates are recorded in the Book of Mormon. Quoted:
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I was reading about the Mormon religion, and had a question. Founded by Joseph Smith, the faith drew its first converts while Smith was dictating the text of The Book of Mormon from golden plates which had reformed Egyptian writing on them which he said he found buried after being directed to their location by the Angel Moroni. The book described itself as a chronicle of early indigenous peoples of the Americas, known as the Nephites, portraying them as believing Israelites, who had a belief in Christ many hundred years before his birth. According to The Book of Mormon, the Nephites are one of four groups (including the Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites) which settled in the ancient Americas. The Nephites are described as a group of people that descended from or were associated with Nephi, the son of the prophet Lehi, who left Jerusalem at the urging of God c. 600 BC and traveled with his family to the Western Hemisphere, arriving in the Americas c. 589 BC. Does this mean that Nephites became Native Americans, or what is supposed to have happened to these people? One of a few things happened to the Nephites ultimately: * Genocide at the hands of Lamanites and Zoramites * Apostates and survivors integrated into Lamanites * Others who departed by sea in exceedingly large ships, built by a ship-builder named Hagoth The Book of Mormon describes hundreds of years of fighting, missionary work, apostasy, and pressure between the Lamanites and Nephites, with a general progression moving northward by the Nephites as the Lamanites attacked them continually. When Joseph Smith was preparing a group of men for Zion's Camp, he told them they were going to march directly through the heart of the land of the Nephites. That route they took goes directly through the center of gravity of the ancient Hopewell Native American civilization, which existed several hundred years BC and went to 400 A.D. up in the New England and Canadian region between the Great Lakes and Northeast US. Moroni, the last Nephite prophet, buried the golden plates and other items in the Hill Cumorah after 400 A.D., and these dates are recorded in the Book of Mormon. I recall these giant battles they fought they had metal swords, shields etc. Any links to pictures of artifacts they recovered from these huge battles? |
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Wow, this thread has gone down some strange paths. When I posted it, it is because I have a Mormon friend that I was having a discussion with and he couldn't answer the question that I asked. I was hoping some other Mormons might have a clue. I am not Mormon or anti-Mormon, but trying to understand what they believe and how it might play into what is known/proven so far. They seem like nice folk, but I have to admit that any scientific proof doesn't really support their beliefs. Read this for the answer to your question: https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng |
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I'm sure somebody more studious, devout, whatever than I am will chime in, but the short answer to your question is yes. In the Book of Mormon the Lamanites essentially wipe out the Nephites. The Book of Mormon ends around 400AD and it is a commonly held belief amongst Mormons that Native Americans are descendents from the Lamanites. Having said that, I think I've read that genetic research has disproven that a bit and claims Native Americans are not of Middle Eastern descent (i.e. Israelites). Most of the Native American tribes don't have European DNA in them. When you look at the tribes in the Northeast, there is a totally different blood haplo group X, which shares concentration in the Northeast US and Canada, as well as the Middle East. 
Also keep in mind that a huge population of Native tribes were forcibly removed from their ancestral homelands in the Northeast and Southeast, and sent to places like Okalahoma. The Grandfather tribes, Cherokee, Chikasaw, Creek, Seminole were displaced on multiple trails of tears. 
%20SOUTHEASTERN%20GULF%20PLAINS/TRAIL%20OF%20TEARS/NativeAmericanRemovalsmap.jpg)
Before European colonization, these tribes were subject to the natural migratory patterns of Western tribes, invasions, and wars. After colonization, 500 years of mixed-breeding took place with mostly Africans, Spaniards, French, English, Germans, Dutch, etc. There are still remnants enough to show the Hg X trait though in remarkable concentration. This coincides with what is said in the Book of Mormon, and the center of gravity of that population pivots from where the Hill Cumorah is located in New York State. |
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Thats where faith comes in. If we had solid, concrete proof of everything in the Bible then it would be taught in history classes, not as a religion. At the end of the day faith in God helps me lead a better life, and to me thats the important part. Quoted:
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Yeah, it's interesting how the various Christian sects pick and choose which parts of the Bible they take as literal. If you're going to insist that some parts are fiction, how can any of it be trusted as being fact? Thats where faith comes in. If we had solid, concrete proof of everything in the Bible then it would be taught in history classes, not as a religion. At the end of the day faith in God helps me lead a better life, and to me thats the important part. That's nice, but none of what you just wrote addresses the issue. If the Bible is truly "God's Word," why would you decide that some of it doesn't mean what it says? And, having arbitrarily decided that some of it is fiction, how do you determine which parts are fact? |
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Leave the religion 
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I'm sure somebody more studious, devout, whatever than I am will chime in, but the short answer to your question is yes. In the Book of Mormon the Lamanites essentially wipe out the Nephites. The Book of Mormon ends around 400AD and it is a commonly held belief amongst Mormons that Native Americans are descendents from the Lamanites. Having said that, I think I've read that genetic research has disproven that a bit and claims Native Americans are not of Middle Eastern descent (i.e. Israelites). Interesting. How do mormon's deal with the inconvenient genetic research discrepencies? Leave the religion
Guess where the Hill Cumorah is on this map, and where Jerusalem is. |
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yeah any idea that the LDS community is solidly anti-trump is akin to a poor student with good tread on his tires, that is, a bald faced lie. Quoted:
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I guess I can pose this question here: Why do Mormons seem to hate Trump so much, and is it because his wife has sexy pics on the interwebs? (I know I live in Utah so I should know but I try not to ask people around me the things I would ask on arfcom) I'm LDS and so is a large portion of the area I live in. I don't know of anyone here that is anti Trump. yeah any idea that the LDS community is solidly anti-trump is akin to a poor student with good tread on his tires, that is, a bald faced lie. Um, I follow Utah politics and something like 80% of the utah delegates voted for Cruz. I wasn't pulling this out of thin air. Maybe it's a Utah thing, but the polls here show pretty clearly a "YUGE" preference for Cruz over Trump that is not found in other heavily Republican areas. |
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Most of the Native American tribes don't have European DNA in them. When you look at the tribes in the Northeast, there is a totally different blood haplo group X, which shares concentration in the Northeast US and Canada, as well as the Middle East. https://mormonbandwagon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Haplogroup_X_mtDNA.png Also keep in mind that a huge population of Native tribes were forcibly removed from their ancestral homelands in the Northeast and Southeast, and sent to places like Okalahoma. The Grandfather tribes, Cherokee, Chikasaw, Creek, Seminole were displaced on multiple trails of tears. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/46/13/a0/4613a0ffb9c7a873b7b7a02e24e67dc9.jpg http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tqpeiffer/Documents/Ancestral%20Migration%20Archives/Migration%20Photo%20Galleries/(5)%20SOUTHEASTERN%20GULF%20PLAINS/TRAIL%20OF%20TEARS/NativeAmericanRemovalsmap.jpg Before European colonization, these tribes were subject to the natural migratory patterns of Western tribes, invasions, and wars. After colonization, 500 years of mixed-breeding took place with mostly Africans, Spaniards, French, English, Germans, Dutch, etc. There are still remnants enough to show the Hg X trait though in remarkable concentration. This coincides with what is said in the Book of Mormon, and the center of gravity of that population pivots from where the Hill Cumorah is located in New York State. Quoted:
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I'm sure somebody more studious, devout, whatever than I am will chime in, but the short answer to your question is yes. In the Book of Mormon the Lamanites essentially wipe out the Nephites. The Book of Mormon ends around 400AD and it is a commonly held belief amongst Mormons that Native Americans are descendents from the Lamanites. Having said that, I think I've read that genetic research has disproven that a bit and claims Native Americans are not of Middle Eastern descent (i.e. Israelites). Most of the Native American tribes don't have European DNA in them. When you look at the tribes in the Northeast, there is a totally different blood haplo group X, which shares concentration in the Northeast US and Canada, as well as the Middle East. https://mormonbandwagon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Haplogroup_X_mtDNA.png Also keep in mind that a huge population of Native tribes were forcibly removed from their ancestral homelands in the Northeast and Southeast, and sent to places like Okalahoma. The Grandfather tribes, Cherokee, Chikasaw, Creek, Seminole were displaced on multiple trails of tears. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/46/13/a0/4613a0ffb9c7a873b7b7a02e24e67dc9.jpg http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tqpeiffer/Documents/Ancestral%20Migration%20Archives/Migration%20Photo%20Galleries/(5)%20SOUTHEASTERN%20GULF%20PLAINS/TRAIL%20OF%20TEARS/NativeAmericanRemovalsmap.jpg Before European colonization, these tribes were subject to the natural migratory patterns of Western tribes, invasions, and wars. After colonization, 500 years of mixed-breeding took place with mostly Africans, Spaniards, French, English, Germans, Dutch, etc. There are still remnants enough to show the Hg X trait though in remarkable concentration. This coincides with what is said in the Book of Mormon, and the center of gravity of that population pivots from where the Hill Cumorah is located in New York State. Dude genetics do not support any of the shit your spouting. |
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The Nephites weren't the only group to find the Americas even in the Book of Mormon itself. There was a much earlier group called the Jaredites. I believe that these people were probably Asiatic and provide most of the ancestry for the Native Americans. Somewhere we'll eventually find Israeli DNA in group native to the Americas. It talks about a remnant of the Nephite linage will survive but it doesn't say that all native peoples on this continent are descendants. Part of the curse is that they wouldn't thrive. Quoted:
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I was reading about the Mormon religion, and had a question. Founded by Joseph Smith, the faith drew its first converts while Smith was dictating the text of The Book of Mormon from golden plates which had reformed Egyptian writing on them which he said he found buried after being directed to their location by the Angel Moroni. The book described itself as a chronicle of early indigenous peoples of the Americas, known as the Nephites, portraying them as believing Israelites, who had a belief in Christ many hundred years before his birth. According to The Book of Mormon, the Nephites are one of four groups (including the Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites) which settled in the ancient Americas. The Nephites are described as a group of people that descended from or were associated with Nephi, the son of the prophet Lehi, who left Jerusalem at the urging of God c. 600 BC and traveled with his family to the Western Hemisphere, arriving in the Americas c. 589 BC. Does this mean that Nephites became Native Americans, or what is supposed to have happened to these people? The Nephites weren't the only group to find the Americas even in the Book of Mormon itself. There was a much earlier group called the Jaredites. I believe that these people were probably Asiatic and provide most of the ancestry for the Native Americans. Somewhere we'll eventually find Israeli DNA in group native to the Americas. It talks about a remnant of the Nephite linage will survive but it doesn't say that all native peoples on this continent are descendants. Part of the curse is that they wouldn't thrive. The Jaredites also shared common geographic locations with the people who discovered one of their survivors. Those were the Mulekites, who left Jerusalem shortly after Lehi's family. Mulek, best-known form of diminutive or caritative, a term of affection and endearment meaning "little king." in Semitic languages, Melek being the word for King in Hebrew: 
He was a surviving son of King Zedekiah, possibly even an unborn son who was transported via his mother when the wives and daughters of Zedekiah fled into Egypt during the Babylonian invasion in 597 B.C. Omni 1:14-15
14 And they discovered a people, who were called the people of Zarahemla. Now, there was great rejoicing among the people of Zarahemla; and also Zarahemla did rejoice exceedingly, because the Lord had sent the people of Mosiah with the plates of brass which contained the record of the Jews. 15 Behold, it came to pass that Mosiah discovered that the people of Zarahemla came out from Jerusalem at the time that Zedekiah, king of Judah, was carried away captive into Babylon. 16 And they journeyed in the wilderness, and were brought by the hand of the Lord across the great waters, into the land where Mosiah discovered them; and they had dwelt there from that time forth. In 600 B.C., Lehi and his family departed Jerusalem because Lehi was warned in a vision that Jerusalem would be destroyed. Before getting too far from Jerusalem, he was commanded to send his sons back to the city to obtain the Brass Plates from another descendant of Manasseh named Laban. Once Nephi, his more obedient son, acquire the plates, they traveled south in the wilderness for 8 years before constructing a ship to take them across the great waters to the Americas. Mulek was brought across the great waters around the same time, in a totally different journey. It wasn't until about 200 years later that Mosiah, a descendant of Nephi, discovered the people of Zarahemla, who were the descendants of Mulek. This is a very important aspect of the Book of Mormon for a critic to understand. Because the people of Zarahemla did not have their records, when they learned that Mosiah had the brass plates containing the Hebrew prophetic records that we know mostly as the Old Testament today, the people of Zarahemla rejoiced exceedingly. What it means is that not only do you have to believe that Joseph Smith fabricated these things on the fly, but that he had seer-like abilities to know particular facts about the ancient world in both the Old World and America's that simply weren't available to a poor farm boy in Upper New York in the early 1800s, right after the War of 1812. Just the selection of names covers nuances from Palestine to pre-Islamic Yemen, by millennia. The correlation with the Nephite and Lamanite civilizations, as well as the Jaredites to Northern and Southern Woodland peoples in the Eastern Seaboard of the US are just barely being scratched by archaeologists in our time. The Hopewell and Adena are of particular interest, both sharing much of the same geography, yet living in very different time periods. This is exactly what is described in the Book of Mormon between the Jaredite and Nephite/Lamanite/Mulekite civilizations. The detailed chapters in the Book of Mormon in the book of Alma describe exactly the types of ancient fortifications that are found throughout the Ohio, Illinois, and other Mississippi River Valley locations, characterized by extensive mound networks, which had timber structures built on them at the time for observation towers, as well as perimeter denial. Even with all the farming that has taken place in the last 2100 years, many of these mounds are still present and common tourist attractions, and that does not include the ones on private property. 
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I recall these giant battles they fought they had metal swords, shields etc. Any links to pictures of artifacts they recovered from these huge battles? Quoted:
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I was reading about the Mormon religion, and had a question. Founded by Joseph Smith, the faith drew its first converts while Smith was dictating the text of The Book of Mormon from golden plates which had reformed Egyptian writing on them which he said he found buried after being directed to their location by the Angel Moroni. The book described itself as a chronicle of early indigenous peoples of the Americas, known as the Nephites, portraying them as believing Israelites, who had a belief in Christ many hundred years before his birth. According to The Book of Mormon, the Nephites are one of four groups (including the Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites) which settled in the ancient Americas. The Nephites are described as a group of people that descended from or were associated with Nephi, the son of the prophet Lehi, who left Jerusalem at the urging of God c. 600 BC and traveled with his family to the Western Hemisphere, arriving in the Americas c. 589 BC. Does this mean that Nephites became Native Americans, or what is supposed to have happened to these people? One of a few things happened to the Nephites ultimately: * Genocide at the hands of Lamanites and Zoramites * Apostates and survivors integrated into Lamanites * Others who departed by sea in exceedingly large ships, built by a ship-builder named Hagoth The Book of Mormon describes hundreds of years of fighting, missionary work, apostasy, and pressure between the Lamanites and Nephites, with a general progression moving northward by the Nephites as the Lamanites attacked them continually. When Joseph Smith was preparing a group of men for Zion's Camp, he told them they were going to march directly through the heart of the land of the Nephites. That route they took goes directly through the center of gravity of the ancient Hopewell Native American civilization, which existed several hundred years BC and went to 400 A.D. up in the New England and Canadian region between the Great Lakes and Northeast US. Moroni, the last Nephite prophet, buried the golden plates and other items in the Hill Cumorah after 400 A.D., and these dates are recorded in the Book of Mormon. I recall these giant battles they fought they had metal swords, shields etc. Any links to pictures of artifacts they recovered from these huge battles? 
This was a common weapon when the European explorers reached the Americas. |
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Dude genetics do not support any of the shit your spouting. Quoted:
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I'm sure somebody more studious, devout, whatever than I am will chime in, but the short answer to your question is yes. In the Book of Mormon the Lamanites essentially wipe out the Nephites. The Book of Mormon ends around 400AD and it is a commonly held belief amongst Mormons that Native Americans are descendents from the Lamanites. Having said that, I think I've read that genetic research has disproven that a bit and claims Native Americans are not of Middle Eastern descent (i.e. Israelites). Most of the Native American tribes don't have European DNA in them. When you look at the tribes in the Northeast, there is a totally different blood haplo group X, which shares concentration in the Northeast US and Canada, as well as the Middle East. https://mormonbandwagon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Haplogroup_X_mtDNA.png Also keep in mind that a huge population of Native tribes were forcibly removed from their ancestral homelands in the Northeast and Southeast, and sent to places like Okalahoma. The Grandfather tribes, Cherokee, Chikasaw, Creek, Seminole were displaced on multiple trails of tears. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/46/13/a0/4613a0ffb9c7a873b7b7a02e24e67dc9.jpg http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tqpeiffer/Documents/Ancestral%20Migration%20Archives/Migration%20Photo%20Galleries/(5)%20SOUTHEASTERN%20GULF%20PLAINS/TRAIL%20OF%20TEARS/NativeAmericanRemovalsmap.jpg Before European colonization, these tribes were subject to the natural migratory patterns of Western tribes, invasions, and wars. After colonization, 500 years of mixed-breeding took place with mostly Africans, Spaniards, French, English, Germans, Dutch, etc. There are still remnants enough to show the Hg X trait though in remarkable concentration. This coincides with what is said in the Book of Mormon, and the center of gravity of that population pivots from where the Hill Cumorah is located in New York State. Dude genetics do not support any of the shit your spouting. Dude, I just posted the links. You didn't read them. The confusion with a lot of people comes from focusing on Central America and not looking at the region where the Hill Cumorah is. Genetics, which are barely being understood in just the past 100 years, is still a very new field of science. I already stated that a lot of the DNA in the US of Natives is not European or Middle Eastern, but there is a region that is, in the Northeast US. Blood Haplo Group X shows that clearly, and is on the secular end of genetic research. Some theories have emerged recently trying to explain it with European cave men travelling by small boats along the lower ice shelf in a high point of the ice age, and even show correlation between arrowhead construction techniques between Europe and the Eastern Sea Board. Look at the Solutrean theory, for example. 
Keep in mind that there are serious propositions that defy the decrees from the Smithsonian Institute: that all pre-Colombian human life in the Americas came across the land bridge of the Bering Sea. * Oh yeah, looks like Vikings took ships on numerous voyages and at least one acknowledged settlement before him too, but we won't focus on that. The farse of history taught in school is laughable when it comes to migratory history of humanity. They don't get a free pass all of a sudden when we want to talk about the Americas and origins of ancient peoples. |
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https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7c/d4/ac/7cd4ac2d7b1afad4484318d967f8643e.jpg This was a common weapon when the European explorers reached the Americas. Quoted:
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I was reading about the Mormon religion, and had a question. Founded by Joseph Smith, the faith drew its first converts while Smith was dictating the text of The Book of Mormon from golden plates which had reformed Egyptian writing on them which he said he found buried after being directed to their location by the Angel Moroni. The book described itself as a chronicle of early indigenous peoples of the Americas, known as the Nephites, portraying them as believing Israelites, who had a belief in Christ many hundred years before his birth. According to The Book of Mormon, the Nephites are one of four groups (including the Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites) which settled in the ancient Americas. The Nephites are described as a group of people that descended from or were associated with Nephi, the son of the prophet Lehi, who left Jerusalem at the urging of God c. 600 BC and traveled with his family to the Western Hemisphere, arriving in the Americas c. 589 BC. Does this mean that Nephites became Native Americans, or what is supposed to have happened to these people? One of a few things happened to the Nephites ultimately: * Genocide at the hands of Lamanites and Zoramites * Apostates and survivors integrated into Lamanites * Others who departed by sea in exceedingly large ships, built by a ship-builder named Hagoth The Book of Mormon describes hundreds of years of fighting, missionary work, apostasy, and pressure between the Lamanites and Nephites, with a general progression moving northward by the Nephites as the Lamanites attacked them continually. When Joseph Smith was preparing a group of men for Zion's Camp, he told them they were going to march directly through the heart of the land of the Nephites. That route they took goes directly through the center of gravity of the ancient Hopewell Native American civilization, which existed several hundred years BC and went to 400 A.D. up in the New England and Canadian region between the Great Lakes and Northeast US. Moroni, the last Nephite prophet, buried the golden plates and other items in the Hill Cumorah after 400 A.D., and these dates are recorded in the Book of Mormon. I recall these giant battles they fought they had metal swords, shields etc. Any links to pictures of artifacts they recovered from these huge battles? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7c/d4/ac/7cd4ac2d7b1afad4484318d967f8643e.jpg This was a common weapon when the European explorers reached the Americas. Dude those battles were suppose to have been fought by huge groups of men rocking swords not clubs. Battles that huge, with such high casualties archaeologists should be excavating them by the truck load. |
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Are we talking BYU vs Notre Dame football.
If that's the case, Catholics. Quoted:
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Here's the real question. Are Catholics better than Mormons? And go. Are we talking BYU vs Notre Dame football.
If that's the case, Catholics. not always. I was on the field when we won in South Bend. One of the more entertaining days of my life. and also made me a lifelong ND fan. ND fans are simply some of the best people I've ever met. That and Nebraska fans. Amazing people. |
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Dude those battles were suppose to have been fought by huge groups of men rocking swords not clubs. Battles that huge, with such high casualties archaeologists should be excavating them by the truck load. After a great battle, what do you do with enemy weapons and equipment if you are the victor. I don't know about you, but we always collected it and either destroyed it, or put it to use. Let's say you're a Lamanite warrior, captain, or general. You just finished slaughtering to the last man a Nephite army, battle-hardened guys with excellent armor (leather with copper plates attached), and cimeters, swords, etc. What do you do? A. Just leave it there for people to find or use against you. B. Collect it and use it for your own purposes. Now what happens from 400 A.D. to the 1500s? We're talking 1100 years of additional tribal fighting between the Lamanites, other invading armies from the South in Meso America, and then the corrosive nature of the Mississippi Valley. Have you ever carried a modern weapon in the woods down South, for example? I have, for many years. We're talking high-grade, modern steels now. No weapons maintenance with a healthy supply of oil? Rust bucket in a few days or even a night of rainfall on dry guns. Now think about 1100 years, and the fact that the Lamanites were more wild, liked to roam about a lot and feed off wild beasts in the field wearing loincloths, while the Nephites were more advanced with city-building, trade, manufacturing, cement-making, timber works, and shipping. What was the most common method of transportation of the Woodland Kingdom Native Americans? Canoes. You'll have to forgive the Lamanites for not continuing the same levels of tool-making that the Nephites had I guess. Read the book with an open mind and heart. You'll be a lot better informed and it might actually change your life in ways you never knew were possible. |
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After a great battle, what do you do with enemy weapons and equipment if you are the victor. I don't know about you, but we always collected it and either destroyed it, or put it to use. Let's say you're a Lamanite warrior, captain, or general. You just finished slaughtering to the last man a Nephite army, battle-hardened guys with excellent armor (leather with copper plates attached), and cimeters, swords, etc. What do you do? A. Just leave it there for people to find or use against you. B. Collect it and use it for your own purposes. Now what happens from 400 A.D. to the 1500s? We're talking 1100 years of additional tribal fighting between the Lamanites, other invading armies from the South in Meso America, and then the corrosive nature of the Mississippi Valley. Have you ever carried a modern weapon in the woods down South, for example? I have, for many years. We're talking high-grade, modern steels now. No weapons maintenance with a healthy supply of oil? Rust bucket in a few days or even a night of rainfall on dry guns. Now think about 1100 years, and the fact that the Lamanites were more wild, liked to roam about a lot and feed off wild beasts in the field wearing loincloths, while the Nephites were more advanced with city-building, trade, manufacturing, cement-making, timber works, and shipping. What was the most common method of transportation of the Woodland Kingdom Native Americans? Canoes. You'll have to forgive the Lamanites for not continuing the same levels of tool-making that the Nephites had I guess. Read the book with an open mind and heart. You'll be a lot better informed and it might actually change your life in ways you never knew were possible. Quoted:
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Dude those battles were suppose to have been fought by huge groups of men rocking swords not clubs. Battles that huge, with such high casualties archaeologists should be excavating them by the truck load. After a great battle, what do you do with enemy weapons and equipment if you are the victor. I don't know about you, but we always collected it and either destroyed it, or put it to use. Let's say you're a Lamanite warrior, captain, or general. You just finished slaughtering to the last man a Nephite army, battle-hardened guys with excellent armor (leather with copper plates attached), and cimeters, swords, etc. What do you do? A. Just leave it there for people to find or use against you. B. Collect it and use it for your own purposes. Now what happens from 400 A.D. to the 1500s? We're talking 1100 years of additional tribal fighting between the Lamanites, other invading armies from the South in Meso America, and then the corrosive nature of the Mississippi Valley. Have you ever carried a modern weapon in the woods down South, for example? I have, for many years. We're talking high-grade, modern steels now. No weapons maintenance with a healthy supply of oil? Rust bucket in a few days or even a night of rainfall on dry guns. Now think about 1100 years, and the fact that the Lamanites were more wild, liked to roam about a lot and feed off wild beasts in the field wearing loincloths, while the Nephites were more advanced with city-building, trade, manufacturing, cement-making, timber works, and shipping. What was the most common method of transportation of the Woodland Kingdom Native Americans? Canoes. You'll have to forgive the Lamanites for not continuing the same levels of tool-making that the Nephites had I guess. Read the book with an open mind and heart. You'll be a lot better informed and it might actually change your life in ways you never knew were possible. LRRPF52, as a practicing mormon with little to no interest in recent mormon history (mormon history post the restoration), but with a passing interest in pre-historic / pre-"mormon" history, but with neither the time, the inclination or frankly the desire to research it, your posts are extremely informative and interesting relative to the pre-restoration history of the "mormon" church. takes some doing to get me much interested in history, and you have done so. So thanks for the posts and the effort in explaining your viewpoint. Arguing religion is often like arguing guns, everyone already has their mind made up and nothing you say or do will change it. That being said, it's interesting to learn some of the stuff you are sharing, and it helps answer some questions I'd had over time. Thanks for posting. |
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After a great battle, what do you do with enemy weapons and equipment if you are the victor. I don't know about you, but we always collected it and either destroyed it, or put it to use. Let's say you're a Lamanite warrior, captain, or general. You just finished slaughtering to the last man a Nephite army, battle-hardened guys with excellent armor (leather with copper plates attached), and cimeters, swords, etc. What do you do? A. Just leave it there for people to find or use against you. B. Collect it and use it for your own purposes. Now what happens from 400 A.D. to the 1500s? We're talking 1100 years of additional tribal fighting between the Lamanites, other invading armies from the South in Meso America, and then the corrosive nature of the Mississippi Valley. Have you ever carried a modern weapon in the woods down South, for example? I have, for many years. We're talking high-grade, modern steels now. No weapons maintenance with a healthy supply of oil? Rust bucket in a few days or even a night of rainfall on dry guns. Now think about 1100 years, and the fact that the Lamanites were more wild, liked to roam about a lot and feed off wild beasts in the field wearing loincloths, while the Nephites were more advanced with city-building, trade, manufacturing, cement-making, timber works, and shipping. What was the most common method of transportation of the Woodland Kingdom Native Americans? Canoes. You'll have to forgive the Lamanites for not continuing the same levels of tool-making that the Nephites had I guess. Read the book with an open mind and heart. You'll be a lot better informed and it might actually change your life in ways you never knew were possible. Quoted:
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Dude those battles were suppose to have been fought by huge groups of men rocking swords not clubs. Battles that huge, with such high casualties archaeologists should be excavating them by the truck load. After a great battle, what do you do with enemy weapons and equipment if you are the victor. I don't know about you, but we always collected it and either destroyed it, or put it to use. Let's say you're a Lamanite warrior, captain, or general. You just finished slaughtering to the last man a Nephite army, battle-hardened guys with excellent armor (leather with copper plates attached), and cimeters, swords, etc. What do you do? A. Just leave it there for people to find or use against you. B. Collect it and use it for your own purposes. Now what happens from 400 A.D. to the 1500s? We're talking 1100 years of additional tribal fighting between the Lamanites, other invading armies from the South in Meso America, and then the corrosive nature of the Mississippi Valley. Have you ever carried a modern weapon in the woods down South, for example? I have, for many years. We're talking high-grade, modern steels now. No weapons maintenance with a healthy supply of oil? Rust bucket in a few days or even a night of rainfall on dry guns. Now think about 1100 years, and the fact that the Lamanites were more wild, liked to roam about a lot and feed off wild beasts in the field wearing loincloths, while the Nephites were more advanced with city-building, trade, manufacturing, cement-making, timber works, and shipping. What was the most common method of transportation of the Woodland Kingdom Native Americans? Canoes. You'll have to forgive the Lamanites for not continuing the same levels of tool-making that the Nephites had I guess. Read the book with an open mind and heart. You'll be a lot better informed and it might actually change your life in ways you never knew were possible. I read it like 12 years ago so its not fresh in my mind anymore. One of my best friends and partner at work is mormon and we talked about the battles a few months ago. Come to think of it, hes the one that gave me the book to read back in the day. I find it all very entertaining. I'm down with agreeing to disagree on this and agreeing the grendle is awesome. |
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Its hard to argue with genetics. Two groups mingling then crossing land bridge Price of tea in China? more genetic tests show nothing from israel None of that addresses Hg X in the Northeast. again none from israel The word Israel isn't even mentioned in that article. Jewish news talking about how native americans are not from israel Shocking. Jews say another religion is wrong. mormon scientist saying indians from middle east isnt suppose to be taken literal Not a single address as to the Hg X issue in Northeast, only states what we already know about majority of Mesoamerican and Western US DNA being Asiatic. The Grandfather Tribe Peoples of the Northeastern US and Canada are not the same DNA as the rest of the Natives in these lands. This issue is more complex than "all or nothing". Not all of the natives in the Americas are from the same place. That's a simplistic view. Not all of the natives in the Americas are explained or claimed to be explained in the Book of Mormon. Only a few groups of people are chronicled, and in patches and parts focused on their spirituality for the majority of the text. In the Book of Mormon, it describes 2 different plates kept by the prophets once they arrived in the promised land. Large Plates with history of things the world is interested in (not translated) Small Plates of Nephi with spiritual matters. The war chapters of the Book of Mormon are an exception to this, since they go into some detail about the structures, tactics, strategies, and detailed order of battle on both Lamanite and Nephite sides, from a Nephite perspective. This isn't the focus of the Book. The focus of the Book is Jesus Christ, His promises to these people, and His appearance to them. This is a very common theme even among the Native tribes encountered by explorers in the last few hundred years, that a great White bearded God appeared to their ancestors, that He was kind to them, that he told them about future events, that he descended from the Heavens in light, and ascended in the same manner after spending some time with them. You see that from the Hopi down to Montezuma even. Coincidence? |
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not always. I was on the field when we won in South Bend. One of the more entertaining days of my life. and also made me a lifelong ND fan. ND fans are simply some of the best people I've ever met. That and Nebraska fans. Amazing people. Quoted:
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Here's the real question. Are Catholics better than Mormons? And go. Are we talking BYU vs Notre Dame football.
If that's the case, Catholics. not always. I was on the field when we won in South Bend. One of the more entertaining days of my life. and also made me a lifelong ND fan. ND fans are simply some of the best people I've ever met. That and Nebraska fans. Amazing people. I was at the game when BYU beat ND in Provo. 
Little did I know I'd be serving with this Freshman receiver named Austin Collie who caught one of the TDs that game. 
AC was a great missionary and person. |
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Um, I follow Utah politics and something like 80% of the utah delegates voted for Cruz. I wasn't pulling this out of thin air. Maybe it's a Utah thing, but the polls here show pretty clearly a "YUGE" preference for Cruz over Trump that is not found in other heavily Republican areas. Quoted:
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I guess I can pose this question here: Why do Mormons seem to hate Trump so much, and is it because his wife has sexy pics on the interwebs? (I know I live in Utah so I should know but I try not to ask people around me the things I would ask on arfcom) I'm LDS and so is a large portion of the area I live in. I don't know of anyone here that is anti Trump. yeah any idea that the LDS community is solidly anti-trump is akin to a poor student with good tread on his tires, that is, a bald faced lie. Um, I follow Utah politics and something like 80% of the utah delegates voted for Cruz. I wasn't pulling this out of thin air. Maybe it's a Utah thing, but the polls here show pretty clearly a "YUGE" preference for Cruz over Trump that is not found in other heavily Republican areas. Dude, the primaries are over, Cruze isn't a choice anymore. Why the heck are you even going on about that, bitter? Whatever, it's trump vs Hillary now, and the majority know trump is a better choice. |
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Arguing religion is often like arguing guns, everyone already has their mind made up and nothing you say or do will change it. That is absolutely false. Many people read and learn new things and change their minds. About guns and about false religions. I have been in contact with several on this forum that had life-changing experiences after studying debates about religious beliefs. If a man has an open heart, God will reveal false gospel and reveal the Truth of the Bible. |
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Dude those battles were suppose to have been fought by huge groups of men rocking swords not clubs. Battles that huge, with such high casualties archaeologists should be excavating them by the truck load. Quoted:
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I was reading about the Mormon religion, and had a question. Founded by Joseph Smith, the faith drew its first converts while Smith was dictating the text of The Book of Mormon from golden plates which had reformed Egyptian writing on them which he said he found buried after being directed to their location by the Angel Moroni. The book described itself as a chronicle of early indigenous peoples of the Americas, known as the Nephites, portraying them as believing Israelites, who had a belief in Christ many hundred years before his birth. According to The Book of Mormon, the Nephites are one of four groups (including the Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites) which settled in the ancient Americas. The Nephites are described as a group of people that descended from or were associated with Nephi, the son of the prophet Lehi, who left Jerusalem at the urging of God c. 600 BC and traveled with his family to the Western Hemisphere, arriving in the Americas c. 589 BC. Does this mean that Nephites became Native Americans, or what is supposed to have happened to these people? One of a few things happened to the Nephites ultimately: * Genocide at the hands of Lamanites and Zoramites * Apostates and survivors integrated into Lamanites * Others who departed by sea in exceedingly large ships, built by a ship-builder named Hagoth The Book of Mormon describes hundreds of years of fighting, missionary work, apostasy, and pressure between the Lamanites and Nephites, with a general progression moving northward by the Nephites as the Lamanites attacked them continually. When Joseph Smith was preparing a group of men for Zion's Camp, he told them they were going to march directly through the heart of the land of the Nephites. That route they took goes directly through the center of gravity of the ancient Hopewell Native American civilization, which existed several hundred years BC and went to 400 A.D. up in the New England and Canadian region between the Great Lakes and Northeast US. Moroni, the last Nephite prophet, buried the golden plates and other items in the Hill Cumorah after 400 A.D., and these dates are recorded in the Book of Mormon. I recall these giant battles they fought they had metal swords, shields etc. Any links to pictures of artifacts they recovered from these huge battles? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7c/d4/ac/7cd4ac2d7b1afad4484318d967f8643e.jpg This was a common weapon when the European explorers reached the Americas. Dude those battles were suppose to have been fought by huge groups of men rocking swords not clubs. Battles that huge, with such high casualties archaeologists should be excavating them by the truck load. Because it is all bullshit. |
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That is absolutely false. Many people read and learn new things and change their minds. About guns and about false religions. I have been in contact with several on this forum that had life-changing experiences after studying debates about religious beliefs. If a man has an open heart, God will reveal false gospel and reveal the Truth of the Bible. Quoted:
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Arguing religion is often like arguing guns, everyone already has their mind made up and nothing you say or do will change it. That is absolutely false. Many people read and learn new things and change their minds. About guns and about false religions. I have been in contact with several on this forum that had life-changing experiences after studying debates about religious beliefs. If a man has an open heart, God will reveal false gospel and reveal the Truth of the Bible. This! |
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As am I. I'm not LDS, but have known some. I once worked with a man who was self-proclaimed 'devout' (my adjective, not his) LDS. He believed that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath on that "city of evil" (that IS what he said), and that Vegas should be next. EVERY group of individuals will have its bad apples, I get that. But I would be interested in hearing what those (who know more about LDS than I) have to say about that man's opinions He truly thought that the death of thousands was not only justified, but preferable and welcome. Quoted:
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Never the less I am in to learn a little more. As am I. I'm not LDS, but have known some. I once worked with a man who was self-proclaimed 'devout' (my adjective, not his) LDS. He believed that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath on that "city of evil" (that IS what he said), and that Vegas should be next. EVERY group of individuals will have its bad apples, I get that. But I would be interested in hearing what those (who know more about LDS than I) have to say about that man's opinions He truly thought that the death of thousands was not only justified, but preferable and welcome. Vegas is easily half Mormon. They make a lot of money here off the casinos. Don't let them fool you. I know many Mormons, they are good people. A few I call friends. However, it's a cult following founded by a false prophet. I don't let that get in between us though. |
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For those that don't have a clue what's in the Book of Mormon, you might want to read it before slinging mud and showing ignorance.
It reminds me of the statements I commonly see about the Bible, where the lazy write it off as the ramblings of old men, written long ago, yet they haven't even spent a year studying what is contained in the most consequential volume of scriptures that fueled the Renaissance, Protestant Reformation, colonizing of America, revolution in social status for Europeans and colonists, and the Founding of America. With the amount of information available today, that someone would proudly display ignorance, and then have a hot opinion without research, is an extremely weak standpoint to argue from. I read the Book of Mormon first when I was 12-13, spent a lot of time studying it every night. I lost track of how many times I read it since then, and am studying it personally, with my family, and my neighborhood. It changed my life in ways that can only be understood by investing time and prayer into seeking the truth. If you are basing your opinion on what some other man told you about the book, you are short-changing yourself. It is a true book. Find out for yourselves by taking up its challenge, if you have the courage. If you are too weak, make it known when you post your comments that you refuse to man up and actually learn what is in it. Don't pretend to know when you are too lazy or scared to read through a book with less than 600 pages. You owe it to yourselves to man up and step out of the room of ignorance, and into the room of knowing. |
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For those that don't have a clue what's in the Book of Mormon, you might want to read it before slinging mud and showing ignorance. It reminds me of the statements I commonly see about the Bible, where the lazy write it off as the ramblings of old men, written long ago, yet they haven't even spent a year studying what is contained in the most consequential volume of scriptures that fueled the Renaissance, Protestant Reformation, colonizing of America, revolution in social status for Europeans and colonists, and the Founding of America. With the amount of information available today, that someone would proudly display ignorance, and then have a hot opinion without research, is an extremely weak standpoint to argue from. I read the Book of Mormon first when I was 12-13, spent a lot of time studying it every night. I lost track of how many times I read it since then, and am studying it personally, with my family, and my neighborhood. It changed my life in ways that can only be understood by investing time and prayer into seeking the truth. If you are basing your opinion on what some other man told you about the book, you are short-changing yourself. It is a true book. Find out for yourselves by taking up its challenge, if you have the courage. If you are too weak, make it known when you post your comments that you refuse to man up and actually learn what is in it. Don't pretend to know when you are too lazy or scared to read through a book with less than 600 pages. You owe it to yourselves to man up and step out of the room of ignorance, and into the room of knowing. The Lorax had the same affect on my relationship with trees 
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Most of the Native American tribes don't have European DNA in them. When you look at the tribes in the Northeast, there is a totally different blood haplo group X, which shares concentration in the Northeast US and Canada, as well as the Middle East. https://mormonbandwagon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Haplogroup_X_mtDNA.png Also keep in mind that a huge population of Native tribes were forcibly removed from their ancestral homelands in the Northeast and Southeast, and sent to places like Okalahoma. The Grandfather tribes, Cherokee, Chikasaw, Creek, Seminole were displaced on multiple trails of tears. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/46/13/a0/4613a0ffb9c7a873b7b7a02e24e67dc9.jpg http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tqpeiffer/Documents/Ancestral%20Migration%20Archives/Migration%20Photo%20Galleries/(5)%20SOUTHEASTERN%20GULF%20PLAINS/TRAIL%20OF%20TEARS/NativeAmericanRemovalsmap.jpg Before European colonization, these tribes were subject to the natural migratory patterns of Western tribes, invasions, and wars. After colonization, 500 years of mixed-breeding took place with mostly Africans, Spaniards, French, English, Germans, Dutch, etc. There are still remnants enough to show the Hg X trait though in remarkable concentration. This coincides with what is said in the Book of Mormon, and the center of gravity of that population pivots from where the Hill Cumorah is located in New York State. Quoted:
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I'm sure somebody more studious, devout, whatever than I am will chime in, but the short answer to your question is yes. In the Book of Mormon the Lamanites essentially wipe out the Nephites. The Book of Mormon ends around 400AD and it is a commonly held belief amongst Mormons that Native Americans are descendents from the Lamanites. Having said that, I think I've read that genetic research has disproven that a bit and claims Native Americans are not of Middle Eastern descent (i.e. Israelites). Most of the Native American tribes don't have European DNA in them. When you look at the tribes in the Northeast, there is a totally different blood haplo group X, which shares concentration in the Northeast US and Canada, as well as the Middle East. https://mormonbandwagon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Haplogroup_X_mtDNA.png Also keep in mind that a huge population of Native tribes were forcibly removed from their ancestral homelands in the Northeast and Southeast, and sent to places like Okalahoma. The Grandfather tribes, Cherokee, Chikasaw, Creek, Seminole were displaced on multiple trails of tears. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/46/13/a0/4613a0ffb9c7a873b7b7a02e24e67dc9.jpg http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tqpeiffer/Documents/Ancestral%20Migration%20Archives/Migration%20Photo%20Galleries/(5)%20SOUTHEASTERN%20GULF%20PLAINS/TRAIL%20OF%20TEARS/NativeAmericanRemovalsmap.jpg Before European colonization, these tribes were subject to the natural migratory patterns of Western tribes, invasions, and wars. After colonization, 500 years of mixed-breeding took place with mostly Africans, Spaniards, French, English, Germans, Dutch, etc. There are still remnants enough to show the Hg X trait though in remarkable concentration. This coincides with what is said in the Book of Mormon, and the center of gravity of that population pivots from where the Hill Cumorah is located in New York State. Thanks, i got tired and went to bed. |
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They will just say the genetic research is wrong. That's the answer all the time in religion, everybody else is wrong.
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Interesting. How do mormon's deal with the inconvenient genetic research discrepencies? Quoted:
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I'm sure somebody more studious, devout, whatever than I am will chime in, but the short answer to your question is yes. In the Book of Mormon the Lamanites essentially wipe out the Nephites. The Book of Mormon ends around 400AD and it is a commonly held belief amongst Mormons that Native Americans are descendents from the Lamanites. Having said that, I think I've read that genetic research has disproven that a bit and claims Native Americans are not of Middle Eastern descent (i.e. Israelites). Interesting. How do mormon's deal with the inconvenient genetic research discrepencies? |
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For those that don't have a clue what's in the Book of Mormon, you might want to read it before slinging mud and showing ignorance. <snip> It is a true book. Find out for yourselves by taking up its challenge, if you have the courage. If you are too weak, make it known when you post your comments that you refuse to man up and actually learn what is in it. That is not true. It is a false book written by a false prophet. I do not need "courage" not to read the Koran to reject the false religion of Islam. I do not need to study the Book of Mormon to know it teaches a false religion. The Bible is all that we need, as it gives men all knowledge they need to come to salvation, that "the man of God may be thoroughly furnished". God foreknew that Joseph Smith was coming and warned us. Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. |
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself.
https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng |
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself. https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng From their slanted view of course.......
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From their slanted view of course....... Quoted:
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself. https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng From their slanted view of course....... Not sure why you freak. The OP asked a question of Mormons, and the LDS (Mormon) Church provided an answer to that question. |
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From their slanted view of course....... Quoted:
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself. https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng From their slanted view of course....... Like anyone could possibly say anything that would convince YOU otherwise.
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From their slanted view of course....... Quoted:
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself. https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng From their slanted view of course....... Of course it is. You asked Mormons for what they believe and they told you. What did you expect? 
That's what they believe. 
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Like anyone could possibly say anything that would convince YOU otherwise. Quoted:
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself. https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng From their slanted view of course....... Like anyone could possibly say anything that would convince YOU otherwise. That correct, I do not believe made up garbage as the "gospel truth".
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That correct, I do not believe made up garbage as the "gospel truth". Quoted:
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself. https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng From their slanted view of course....... Like anyone could possibly say anything that would convince YOU otherwise. That correct, I do not believe made up garbage as the "gospel truth". And that is fine. Nobody is requiring you to believe anything. 
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That is absolutely false. Many people read and learn new things and change their minds. About guns and about false religions. I have been in contact with several on this forum that had life-changing experiences after studying debates about religious beliefs. If a man has an open heart, God will reveal false gospel and reveal the Truth of the Bible. Quoted:
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Arguing religion is often like arguing guns, everyone already has their mind made up and nothing you say or do will change it. That is absolutely false. Many people read and learn new things and change their minds. About guns and about false religions. I have been in contact with several on this forum that had life-changing experiences after studying debates about religious beliefs. If a man has an open heart, God will reveal false gospel and reveal the Truth of the Bible. I will tentatively concede your point, as you are correct. As someone who served as a missionary for the mormon church, i've seen it happen. However, in my experience, it's so rare, and so much time is spent doing it, it effectively never happens. and it rarely happens in threads like this, where the only people to show up are people who hate mormons, and mormons defending their faith. It's such a polarizing topic here that you rarely get true seekers like OP who have honest questions. So you're right, I agree, but I stand my my statement in that in religious arguments, it's pretty rare.
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Why do you always take two Mormons fishing? Because if you only take one they will drink all of your beer. The town I grew up in in eastern Washington was about 50% Mormon. They are good people for the most part but some can be pretty full of themselves. I did a report in history class on the Francher party. It didn't go over too well with some of my fellow students. I imagine they deal with the discrepancies in DNA and physical proof the same way they and other religions deal with the same problems, denial. Selah? |
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As far as I'm concerned they can believe whatever they want, it looks like its working for them. I agree with this part here. I'm agnostic and feel the same about any religion that doesn't want to force me to convert and doesn't advocate chopping heads off. |
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That is not true. It is a false book written by a false prophet. I do not need "courage" not to read the Koran to reject the false religion of Islam. I do not need to study the Book of Mormon to know it teaches a false religion. The Bible is all that we need, as it gives men all knowledge they need to come to salvation, that "the man of God may be thoroughly furnished". God foreknew that Joseph Smith was coming and warned us. Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. God did know Joseph was coming but that is not whom that passage references, as the gospel that was restored to the Earth through the prophet Joseph Smith is the gospel referenced in Galations. The Lord did leave a message in the Book of Mormon for you though Old Painless. I truly hope you consider these words carefully. 2nd Nephi 29:1-9 1 But behold, there shall be many—at that day when I shall proceed to do a marvelous work among them, that I may remember my covenants which I have made unto the children of men, that I may set my hand again the second time to recover my people, which are of the house of Israel; 2 And also, that I may remember the promises which I have made unto thee, Nephi, and also unto thy father, that I would remember your seed; and that the words of your seed should proceed forth out of my mouth unto your seed; and my words shall hiss forth unto the ends of the earth, for a standard unto my people, which are of the house of Israel; 3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible. 4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles? 5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people. 6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews? 7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also. 9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever. |
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Previous VP of sales at my company (my boss) is LDS.
One of the most ethical and nice guys around. Loved asking us non LDS buddies questions too! For example, we were at a trade show in San Diego and kept going on about how good the Stone IPA was - he was fascinated that we were excited about a beer. He wanted to smell it, then was amazed at such variety they offered. To him beer was just beer. Cracked me up as his "straying" days were from college where he drank Snapple Peach Iced tea. Said it was awesome but had to stop. He's a great dude, would trust him with anything. |
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The Mormon Church's official doctrine embraces a literal Biblical first-person Adam. Official church doctrine: One also wonders if man shares DNA/physical features and a common ancestor with monkeys/apes. .............. and man is made in the likeness of "our heavenly father" .......................... does that mean what it sounds like it would mean .......... I don't even mean that as offensively as it likely comes off, but it's the logical conclusion of the reasoning being presented.Quoted:
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Why use DNA at all? You guys don't trust it when it says we share DNA (and a common ancestor) with apes. We even have the fossil record and a bunch of other good objective evidence that man evolved, yet people reject it. The Mormon Church's official doctrine embraces a literal Biblical first-person Adam. Official church doctrine: All [men] who have inhabited the earth since Adam have taken bodies and become souls in like manner. It is held by some that Adam was not the first man upon this earth, and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal creation. These, however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declares that Adam was "the first man of all men" (Moses 1:34), and we are therefore in duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of the race ... all men were created in the beginning after the image of God; and whether we take this to mean the spirit or the body, or both, it commits us to the same conclusion: Man began life as a human being, in the likeness of our heavenly Father. True it is that the body of man enters upon its career as a tiny germ or embryo, which becomes an infant, quickened at a certain stage by the spirit whose tabernacle it is, and the child, after being born, develops into a man. There is nothing in this, however, to indicate that the original man the first of our race, began life as anything less than a man, or less than the human germ or embryo that becomes a man. One also wonders if man shares DNA/physical features and a common ancestor with monkeys/apes. .............. and man is made in the likeness of "our heavenly father" .......................... does that mean what it sounds like it would mean .......... I don't even mean that as offensively as it likely comes off, but it's the logical conclusion of the reasoning being presented.We are "in the likeness" not because of our structure and appearance, but rather because we are moral agents. Unlike a flat worm or a chimpanzee, we have the capacity to understand right and wrong, and to choose to act accordingly. |