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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:07:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I work with some special ops guys... and no just because they were/are special forces does not automatically make them "Firearm Experts"... |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:08:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See you still don't understand the issues. Define 'Improve'. Because that could me more durability to wear, more corrosion resistance, higher MTBF, lower weight, better accuracy, better terminal performance, more modularity, better "over the beach" performance, and/or lower cost. All of those would be 'improvement' but you can't have ALL of them at the same time, that's what we call 'engineering tradeoffs'. Ah yes because CEOs are so knowledgeable about engineering. Today most CEOs are marketers not engineers - it's more profitable that way. I saw no data in that thread comparing different brands under specified conditions telling us anything. It was all marketing hype without an iota of data. 
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:09:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure what you mean? Are you implying that SEALS and Delta don't understand the mechanics of DI AR's ? |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:10:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This source states that it was adopted for standard use in the Pacific Theater in 1944, on page 301: https://books.google.com/books?id=h5xqVTVPO3QC&pg=PT308&lpg=PT308&dq=stellite+lined+machine+gun+barrels+1943&source=bl&ots=Y2TT8kEKu1&sig=ACfU3U0jhMYUaDgPtEtJp2GoOy2ykHRClw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisnqSfjNnlAhVdCTQIHb5WD6cQ6AEwDnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Stellite&f=false I'm not sure how adopted as standard a year or so begore the war ended = not commonly used, but whatever. Quote HistoryQuoted: This source states that it was adopted for standard use in the Pacific Theater in 1944, on page 301: https://books.google.com/books?id=h5xqVTVPO3QC&pg=PT308&lpg=PT308&dq=stellite+lined+machine+gun+barrels+1943&source=bl&ots=Y2TT8kEKu1&sig=ACfU3U0jhMYUaDgPtEtJp2GoOy2ykHRClw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisnqSfjNnlAhVdCTQIHb5WD6cQ6AEwDnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Stellite&f=false I'm not sure how adopted as standard a year or so begore the war ended = not commonly used, but whatever. By October 1944, the designs for a Stellite liner for the .50 cal and .30 cal MGs were ready and production started soon afterwards. Definition of "not common" common - adj. - occurring, found, or done often; prevalent. not - the negative of. Therefore "not common" means they were not found often or not prevalent...simple The war ended in Aug 1945, so a little math yields the most time Stellite barrels could have been produced is 10 months. Whereas, the conventional barrels had been to production since around 1933, and high volume production since say January 1941 when the US really started to gear up for war, that's 46 months. Then the production of Stellite barrels did not immediately match the production rate of the conventional barrel, so even after Oct 1944, conventional barrels remained in production. Then you have the fact that the barrels are made in some place in Ohio or New York and then have to shipped all the way out to some island in the Pacific, probably Ulithi, and then distributed to the combat units. Yes, there, but not common. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:11:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, I am sorry that the poor engineers and experienced people did not hail you as the most brilliant mind in the room on your entrance. But, the reasons things are the way they are were explained to you and some very good advise was given to you on how you might best answer your own questions. To wit: Someone even offered a free book on weapons design. And you seem to be enamored by the CB thread, but at least the CB guys could answer technical criticisms with something approaching logic, not just a link to the next "gee-whiz" material and dismissal of those that have experience in the very field you're asking about. 
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:12:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The steel/aluminum composites are interesting. We didnt just make clad, we also did explosive hydro-forming but that is not really germane to this conversation. Making a barrel would not be too hard we used to do "pipe to billet" shots all the time. There is only one caveat, that not all metals like to play nice together. Aluminum does not like to stick to steel and in most cases an interlayer like Tantalum needs to be used. you could do a double interlayer like Copper and Titanium, but when the complexity of the shot goes up so does the failure rate. While it is completely doable, economically feasible on a large scale it aint. Might be cool for a one off though 
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:12:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a general rule, no they don't. They get paid to shoot them, not design them. Kind of like how Kyle Busch gets paid to drive the car, not design the engine or the drivetrain. 
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:15:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I don't, why don't you? But notice no one on here proves anything after they claim they do all these engineering and top secret spec ops work? lol  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Why don't you work with special ops guys? |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:15:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Halberds are way too unwieldy for home defense. Shows what kind of SME you are. I'll take my wakazashi and tanto any day for CQB. I swear the posers around here are aggravating. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:16:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The CB guys had to explain to you like you were 4th graders on the basics of lubrication. The supposed "SME's" here many who still use CLP or motor oil in a open operating system. lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, I am sorry that the poor engineers and experienced people did not hail you as the most brilliant mind in the room on your entrance. But, the reasons things are the way they are were explained to you and some very good advise was given to you on how you might best answer your own questions. To wit: Someone even offered a free book on weapons design. And you seem to be enamored by the CB thread, but at least the CB guys could answer technical criticisms with something approaching logic, not just a link to the next "gee-whiz" material and dismissal of those that have experience in the very field you're asking about. My guns might stink, but they run. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:16:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my defense, I’m only a low IQ garage builder.  
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:18:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can absolutely guarantee what is said above is true, and no there is no chrome flashing on the extreme rear of the barrel. The rear of the barrel which includes the barrel threads and the chamber is a third separate piece of the barrel called the retainer that threads in and holds the liner in place in addition to the shrink fit. These three pieces are all assembled after the steel portion of the bore is chrome plated. . . . . .
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:18:15 PM EDT
[#13]
I know someone 3D printing suppressors from Inconel (legally, in case anyone was wondering).
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:18:28 PM EDT
[#14]
This thread I created is fun and I learned about...
So what have we learned on this thread?? Everyone on here besides me is a engineer and mathematician that has either a glorious career in engineering or currently doing all sorts of top level secret govt work. The "SME's" on here like BURN know more about guns than Navy Seals and Delta Force do. The self proclaimed "SME's" on here who supposedly work in high tech industries a top level engineering firms build random guns in their garages like the next guy down the street who doesn't have a engineering degree and their garage home builds as just as random and ordinary as the random guy's is down the street.
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:19:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The CB guys had to explain to you like you were 4th graders on the basics of lubrication. The supposed "SME's" here many who still use CLP or motor oil in a open operating system. lol |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:20:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know someone 3D printing suppressors from Inconel (legally, in case anyone was wondering). |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:20:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think stellite was in common use in .50 cal aircraft machine gun barrels during WWII. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:21:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On a side note, I am a fan of Larry Vickers and the HK program. Also, Chris Bartocci at Small Arms Solutions on YouTube is awesome too...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn_AGhwovzeWrnqHFJpYWaw/featured There are a lot of gun guys on YouTube who are great like... IraqVeteran8888 MrGunsnGear Mishaco |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:23:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of us know each other... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Why don't you work with special ops guys? |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:24:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I work with some special ops guys... and no just because they were/are special forces does not automatically make them "Firearm Experts"... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You mean non-standard DI (that's not a true DI) that gets crapped on by operators that don't understand the mechanics behind it.  |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:25:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But the SEALS and Delta still know more than you do about guns and also more courageous than you are. First, you cannot know how courageous he is. Second, you have stated you do not know and SEALs, etc so, how do you know how much or little they know? Third, given your the knowledge of firearms you have displayed, or more appropriately, lack thereof, you have no idea how much he knows and are not in a position to hazard a guess. You are awarded no points. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:25:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But the SEALS and Delta still know more than you do about guns and also more courageous than you are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: As a general rule, no they don't. They get paid to shoot them, not design them. Kind of like how Kyle Busch gets paid to drive the car, not design the engine or the drivetrain. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:26:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I worked for a company in the 1990s that made all sorts of dissimilar metal clad with explosives. We didnt just make clad, we also did explosive hydro-forming but that is not really germane to this conversation. Making a barrel would not be too hard we used to do "pipe to billet" shots all the time. There is only one caveat, that not all metals like to play nice together. Aluminum does not like to stick to steel and in most cases an interlayer like Tantalum needs to be used. you could do a double interlayer like Copper and Titanium, but when the complexity of the shot goes up so does the failure rate. While it is completely doable, economically feasible on a large scale it aint. Might be cool for a one off though |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:27:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I work with some special ops guys... and no just because they were/are special forces does not automatically make them "Firearm Experts"... |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:30:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What? Say it ain't so? I was told the only people who know about Inconel are the self proclaimed "SME's" on here who know more about guns than Navy Seals and Delta Force and turn down jobs from Elon Musk at Tesla. lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know someone 3D printing suppressors from Inconel (legally, in case anyone was wondering). He was also a genuine body stacker and now has several screws loose. He is in his mid 50s and married to a 24 year old hottie, so he has that going for him.
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:30:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because I don't, why don't you? But notice no one on here proves anything after they claim they do all these engineering and top secret spec ops work? lol |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:31:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have a bachelors in name dropping? Because it seems to be the one thing you're consistently good at. Larry Vickers Scott Bartocci (Small Arms Solutions) Mishaco Iraqveteran8888 sootch00 Garandthumb MAC Military Arms Channel Mrgunsngear hickok45
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:31:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to work in the research department of Haynes International, which is the company that owns the HASTELLOY trademark. First thing to know is that Hastelloy is a brand name, it doesn't connotate any particular alloy composition, other than all the alloys sold under that name are nickel based. There have been at least dozen Hastelloy alloy compositions sold. Hastelloy X is rather an old one, the patents are long expired and it has become genericized on the market. The same goes for INCONEL, which is a trademark of the Special Metals Corporation. There are lots of different Inconel alloy compositions on the market. If you are going to ask questions like "which is better, Hastelloy or Inconel", you need to specify which ones. Hastelloy C-276 will blow Inconel 600 out of the water in a hot, aqueous acid application, but would likely suffer in comparison to Inconel 686. But that was to have various titanium alloys rolled to plate and coil. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:31:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You would be correct. As stated earlier, there, but not "common". |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:31:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of us know each other... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Why don't you work with special ops guys? |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:32:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean like biblically?  Ok, and some pics cause.. 
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:32:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What? Say it ain't so? I was told the only people who know about Inconel are the self proclaimed "SME's" on here who know more about guns than Navy Seals and Delta Force and turn down jobs from Elon Musk at Tesla. lol I suppose you think cops are gun experts too? 
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:32:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could be. But I take pride in not hanging off people's nuts like you have been for the entire thread, everyone from Pat Rogers to Delta to V7 to the guys that make CherryBalmz.
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:32:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean like biblically? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Why don't you work with special ops guys? |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:33:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate to break this to you but... the guy doing it was, in fact, an SF guy who retired but continues as a SOCOM advisor on material technology. Sorry. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:35:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Kudos to the guys who had the patience to offer some wisdom early on. The OCD replies sound like hog molars grinding nacre.
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:35:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean like biblically? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Why don't you work with special ops guys? I mean, it’s Thursday now and it was Thursday then, so it was totally cool. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:35:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol. You think snake eaters know more about firearms than gunsmiths? I suppose you think cops are gun experts too?
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:36:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My post was being sarcastic, it wasn't a shot at you. I believe you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I hate to break this to you but... the guy doing it was, in fact, an SF guy who retired but continues as a SOCOM advisor on material technology. Sorry. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:36:48 PM EDT
[#40]
If you guys are gun "experts" do you have any patents? What firearms manufacturers have you worked for?
Did any of you come up with LMT's patents? Or Colt's patents? |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:36:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There’s a picture of RictusGrin and myself draped over each other. I mean, it’s Thursday now and it was Thursday then, so it was totally cool. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Why don't you work with special ops guys? I mean, it’s Thursday now and it was Thursday then, so it was totally cool. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:39:55 PM EDT
[#42]
I actually machined the outside crust of a slab of Hastelloy X back in the early 80’s and did some contour machining on it as well. It was going to be used in a cryogenic(liquid nitrogen) test scenario. That’s as much as I can or will say about the actual part. Was some really tough material. I used a big face mill on Mazak vertical and ran the spindle as slow as it would go and fed it at about 50 IPM. It made beautiful #6 chips.
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:39:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be fair, I know some dumbasses and some geniuses on both sides of the civ/mil line, when it comes to defense tech. Oddly, I don't think I have ever met a Colonel or above that fell into the genius category. I never realized that until just now. If you ever went over to Garanthumb's youtube channel, he pokes fun at the comments section under his videos of all the teenagers who think they're Navy Seals or know more than the actual engineers who designed the guns he tests out on his channel. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:40:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever seems most titillating. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Why don't you work with special ops guys?
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:42:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean like biblically? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Why don't you work with special ops guys?
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:42:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You''re just good at hanging off the fake SME's nu** here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Could be. But I take pride in not hanging off people's nuts like you have been for the entire thread, everyone from Pat Rogers to Delta to V7 to the guys that make CherryBalmz. |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:43:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't dropped a single name in the entire thread. Feel free to continue to have Larry Vickers be your training wheels.
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:43:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you guys are gun "experts" do you have any patents? What firearms manufacturers have you worked for? Did any of you come up with LMT's patents? Or Colt's patents? |
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:47:29 PM EDT
[#49]
So who else on here knows more about AR 15's than Navy Seals, Delta and Green Berets do?
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Posted: 11/7/2019 7:47:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clad welding is some cool shit. I once had to subcontract for some clad welding to produce a highly specific armor plate using chromium carbide on one side. I can't specify the full composition but I would not describe it as ... practical or affordable for that application. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I worked for a company in the 1990s that made all sorts of dissimilar metal clad with explosives. We didnt just make clad, we also did explosive hydro-forming but that is not really germane to this conversation. Making a barrel would not be too hard we used to do "pipe to billet" shots all the time. There is only one caveat, that not all metals like to play nice together. Aluminum does not like to stick to steel and in most cases an interlayer like Tantalum needs to be used. you could do a double interlayer like Copper and Titanium, but when the complexity of the shot goes up so does the failure rate. While it is completely doable, economically feasible on a large scale it aint. Might be cool for a one off though We were supplied with a piece of metal 12"x12"x1" and told that they wanted it bonded to some grade III Ti with no interlayer. They wouldnt say what it was or really give the engineers any specs for it other than hardness, ductility/heat info. We ended up doing a "hot shot" with it, it got put it in the heat treat oven and the rest of the shot was set up out in the site. It was removed from the oven, raced out to the site in a pickup, set, and shot within 2 minutes. It somewhat stuck to the Ti, but the bond was shit and it shattered like a safety glass window. Whatever it was could not take the pressures and angles involved. .Gov still paid though
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