Do you mean back at the butt? It's two piece.

Very cool! Thanks for taking the time to post these pics. Also, good on you for hosting the hunt!

Very cool indeed. Thanks for sharing. The paperwork certifying it is the icing on the cake.

Here are some of the responses so far:



And

no, he was referring to a "duffle cut" stock, when a soldier would cut the stock in two usually under the rear barrel band.

Too Cool

Nope, it definitely wasn't cut like that.

thanks for posting!!!

Tag for the outcome on the sword.  

I have a very similar sword, brought back by my uncle.

More stuff from the sword guys.  They're awesome:

Nice...good info!

Also, the top expert , Grey, says:



Yoshiharu. 義 治

So, it is not an old sword, as it was made around WWII era...but it is not just a mass produced sword...which is nice. So probably not worth the money to restore/polish it professionally...it's in pretty good shape anyway.

My WWII bringback sword was made in the late 1700s, and is pretty rusted, so I AM getting it professionally restored. Gonne cost around $1,700...but it will be worth it.

OUTSTANDING!!

There used to be ads in SGN up to the late '80s IIRC, that offered to buy back trophy swords from Americans so they could be reunited (supposedly) with the families of the Japs where the swords came from to begin with.  Some of those swords were passed down from generation to generation, from what I've read.

On a side note, there was a Jap "rising sun" flag-with Japanese signatures-hanging on the wall of the office of a Sgt Maj. at Camp Pendleton some years back.  A Japanese official from the consulate was visiting the base for some reason one day and saw it from the hallway as he walked by.  He pitched a fit and demanded it be "returned" to the government of Japan.  To make a long story short, it was kept by the Sgt Maj. (who inherited it from his father), but it was almost confiscated by the USMC, if you can believe that!  Still a sensitive topic, if that puts things in perspective.  Personally, I think they can f*** right off, but that's just me.

That story was told to me by a retired Marine in Jacksonville, NC.  He was in the mall with a display of future items (to include Jap rifles and flags) that were to be included in the Marine Corps museum that they plan to build in the area sometime in the near future.

The difference is that a "captured" rifle is picked up on the battlefield from either a dead Japaneses soldier's (or sailor's) hands (or, very rarely, from a Japanese POW) and a "surrendered" rifle was surrendered to US troops by surrendered elements of the Japanese armed forces after the surrender of Japan.



When the Japanese surrendered, our forces arriving in Japan took control of all Japanese war material -ships, planes, tanks, trucks, rifles, machine-guns, artillery, etc.  As the US Occupation Forces forbid the Japanese to retain any arms, personally owned swords also had to be surrendered.  Usually officers snatched up any surrendered swords (many Japanese officers broke family-heirloom swords rather than surrender them while family swords where often confiscated when discovered during arms searches in the first 2-3 years of the Occupation - we did that in Germany too).



Demobilizing units of the Imperial Japanese armed forces turned all their arms into the US commanders and US forces designated to receive those arms in that particular area.  Everything was accounted for, receipts produced, records kept as all these Japanese arms became the property of the United States government.



But it was also official policy (of the US) to let any US serviceman that wanted a rifle out of the pile to grab one.  Paperwork was issued to show it was authorized.



In order to not shame the Emperor, Japanese ordnance officers and armory workers took files and grinders and defaced the Imperial chrysanthemum ("mon") on Japanese arms before they were turned in to the US forces.



The vast majority of US servicemen in the Pacific theater who brought home a souvenir rifle in 1945 "acquired" any souvenir rifles from these piles of mon defaced Arisakas surrendered in 1945 - who was going to lug a 50" long enemy rifle from island to island?.  That's why pistols and binos were the most popular war trophies during the fighting.



The chances that your grandfather took that rifle out of the dead hands of a Japanese soldier (or sailor) on Okinawa with a defaced mon are very low.

Only one post in that thread states that (the first one) that and it is met with skepticism.



That post leads me to believe that "Sammy" told a good story to account for defaced mons on what were supposed to be battlefield pickups.  Of course, veterans of WW2 (or any war) never tell a tall story or embellish their story, do they?  



My Dad (313th Infantry Regiment, 79th Division ETO 1944-45) says "Snort, right!  Have you read your Grandfather's (110th Infantry Regiment, 28th Division, AEF) war diary?  And did I tell you how I saved Patton's ass crossing the Meuse?".

I have one for my Martini-Henry from Afghanistan.

Yep, you are probably right, and that is why I updated first post.  My grandfather probably picked up the rifle in Japan.  He was there for the beginning of the occupation.  The sword was from Iwo Jima.  In fact, he picked up TWO there, and later gave one of them to one of his buddies.

OP thanks for sharing the updates...I guess I was sort of right then about the sword...its a very nice one in any case.

I've been a member of arfcom for nearly ten years, and for most of those ten years, people have been complaining about the quality of GD.  Yes, it can be rough.  So what, we are all big boys and girls, and always have the power to NOT read, if it is getting too rough or low-brow.

However, in a thread like this, the value of the minds of hundreds or thousands of curious and bright minds all thinking about the same thing, really shows its power.  In a day, I learned more about this stuff than my family has known for 65 years.  

Thank you, arfcom GD!

Hoss,
Yes, I was thinking of the 'duffel' cut stock (spelled duffel wrong earlier I think).

I saw in your sword research that the pin that holds the grip on the blade is supposed to be bamboo...that surprised me; I was expecting brass or such.

Anyway,  both are very nice items and I hope you enjoy them and how they remind you of your family history.

OP, if you decide to shoot your Arisaka the 7.5mm Schmidt Rubin stripper clips will work.

very cool, thanks for the schooling!

awesome response from the sword site!

I saw a picture of another very similar sword, which had a nearly identical handle (I think they call it a tsuka).  That sword had what appeared to be some kind of "bolt" type thing.  It definitely had a slot-headed-screw head on one side, and some kind of nut on the other side.  I've also seen pictures where they have what very well could be a wooden "plug".  I think more than anything, those guys don't want me to mangle the sword by pounding an ill-fitting bolt into it.  Suggesting a bamboo peg will keep the thing from falling apart, while keeping me from breaking it.  Probably good advice.

 

That's OK, if I need to shoot an old warhorse, I take this one out.



Yeah, I know, the shelf needs dusting.

Also, a metal peg isn't necessary...it doesn't take much to hold the entire tsuka (handle) to the sword...a single small bamboo peg or other soft wood peg works just fine...it's how it's been done since the 1300s.

Glad the guys over at Nihonto message boards were able to help out...once you get them started, they will critique a blade down to the most minute detail...you wouldn't believe what goes into identifying and grading a true sword. It takes decades of learning to do it properly.

One interesting thing...In Japan, it takes a 3 year apprenticeship to become a swordsmith. To become a sword polisher/restorer, it takes a 7 year apprenticeship.

I guess they really don't want amateur sword restorers screwing up ancient blades. Amazing.

Some more good stuff from the sword guys:

That bayonet is a Type 30 and would not originally have been issued with that scabbard. Although the scabbard is for a Type 30 it's the last ditch version, produced at the end of the war, whereas the bayonet is an earlier issue. Have a look here...

http://www.japanesebayonets.net/



Further to my last...have a look here at the Army Officer Type 98...

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_002.htm

GOD BLESS YOUR GRANDDAD

Thanks for sharing.

Fantastic post and thread. Might get stupid now and then but this place is unreal at times.

My Gramps brought back a 7.7 and a samuari sword(NCO I think), my cousin got them....and sold them to pay for his demolition derby car.......FML

thats worthy of a family beating

This. That ass kicking would be biblical. And talked about at family gathers for decades.



 

This is the wooden leg of Mexican General/dictator Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, captured by US forces in 1847 and now resident in a museum in Illinois. Mexico has been trying to get it back for a long time, but there it still lays, taken as a trophy of war by the 4th Illinois Infantry.

Japan should thank their lucky stars we gave them back Okinawa and leave it at that.

The same thing goes for the missing battleflag from the last picture, that was signed by all of my grandfather's buddies.  The rifle, sword and bayonet are cool, but that flag was a very personal artifact of my grandfather's, not just something he picked up.

Did you check out those links I posted about the military swords ("gunto") of Japan?  It's mostly Japanese and crappy translations, but lots of good pics!

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_002.htm