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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:08:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is saving worthwhile when the interest rate is near zero? Personally, if the Government subsidizes businesses, then it should subsidize its citizens. I propose a 7% minimum on personal savings. Being able to double your money every 10 years, people will be incentivized to save, and they will have more money to deal with the issues of becoming old. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: They should've saved for retirement. 
Where does the government get it’s money again? |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:10:18 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not reading all that. All I know is that if there was a box where I could opt out of it and get back everything I've put in so far I'd check it in an instant. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:11:50 AM EDT
[#3]
I don't care about excuses one way or the other.
 F*** you, pay me |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:12:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Any one who believes there is money in a Social Security "trust fund" is a fool.
By law, every dollar not used to pay current benefits has always been used to buy U.S. government bonds. Congress immediately spent the money received in exchange for the bonds. There is no reservoir of money with which to redeem the bonds as they mature. That money comes from current revenue or from borrowing. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:15:46 AM EDT
[#5]
Well I feel so much better now, after having read all of this. My faith in the government is completely restored. I now love the IRS.
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:19:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I discovered the truth about Social Security reading a book by Al Franken: Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations His young research assistant was dying of cancer so Al Franken let him have a chapter about the Ponzi scheme of Social Security and how people in their early 20's (the book was published around 1995-1996) would never receive Social Security despite paying into it. It was a really convincing argument, and I have believed it and acted accordingly. And now 25 years later, the hard facts are coming in. That research assistant was completely right. If you retired in 1992, it took 2 years for you to get your investment into SS back. When I retire in 2035, it will take me 40 years to get my investment back. I'll be 107. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:20:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you mean survivors benefits in '39, or disability which doesn't affect the OASI? Survivor payments are around 15% of the total. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
when they started paying out to people who had never paid in, it started to die. Survivor payments are around 15% of the total. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:23:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not reading all that. All I know is that if there was a box where I could opt out of it and get back everything I've put in so far I'd check it in an instant. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:24:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryIn its ruling, the Court rejected this argument and established the principle that entitlement to Social Security benefits is not contractual right.
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:24:08 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would a smart person take what they would have paid into social security and medicare and put 2/3 into a vangard fund and 1/3 (or less) into a disability insurance plan? Absolutely.  ,,,have you ever met the average American?
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:25:32 AM EDT
[#11]
I believe it would have worked if the gov didn't drain the funds
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:41:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe it would have worked if the gov didn't drain the funds That's why the law always required that excess funds had to be made available for Congress to spend. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:46:16 AM EDT
[#13]
#7
Revisionism at its best. If SS disappeared tomorrow it will be up to the employer on what to do with the money he currently pays out of his pocket for all employees SS. Its a cost of doing business just like business insurance. It is not money taken out of employees wages. 2 different things. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:50:20 AM EDT
[#14]
SS is not in trouble due to old age pension benefits, it's caused by every conceivable abuse of the other facets.
Politicians inventing new welfare projects to hide in the SSA and buy votes. Welfare rats enrolling their offspring for invented maladies. Able body adults taking disability payments for their aches and pains and headaches. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 8:55:48 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I discovered the truth about Social Security reading a book by Al Franken: Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations His young research assistant was dying of cancer so Al Franken let him have a chapter about the Ponzi scheme of Social Security and how people in their early 20's (the book was published around 1995-1996) would never receive Social Security despite paying into it. It was a really convincing argument, and I have believed it and acted accordingly. And now 25 years later, the hard facts are coming in. That research assistant was completely right. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:04:13 AM EDT
[#16]
The fact is everyone is a fucking communist it's just a matter of degrees really. Listen to a retired person talk about social security or a farmer talk about ag subsidies.
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:07:45 AM EDT
[#17]
As I have planned for my retirement, I have taken a realistic approach to SS. Here are my conclusions:
- I can’t stop FICA deductions from my current earnings, so I don’t worry about them. - I don’t plan SS benefits in my retirement income because I don’t trust the government over the long term. I fully expect a means based distribution of benefits to come into play in order to keep it solvent. - If I do receive SS benefits, I will be getting the maximum amount which will just be frosting on the cake. It will be nice, but I will be fine in retirement without it. That said, I have no problem taking any benefits I have earned and that I am entitled to by law. Retirement cash flows need to be multi layered. Start by being 100% debt free to maximize the effectiveness, then have funds coming from several sources. Begin saving and planning as soon as you are working full time. Waiting until 5-10 years before you retire is a sure way to fail. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:14:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was even a time when I would have written off (forfeited) what I had already contributed in order to opt out of the program. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm not reading all that. All I know is that if there was a box where I could opt out of it and get back everything I've put in so far I'd check it in an instant. It's a shame that so many folks are perfectly content to burn the whole place down as long as they get theirs.
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:16:39 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe it would have worked if the gov didn't drain the funds |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:16:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is saving worthwhile when the interest rate is near zero? Personally, if the Government subsidizes businesses, then it should subsidize its citizens. I propose a 7% minimum on personal savings. Being able to double your money every 10 years, people will be incentivized to save, and they will have more money to deal with the issues of becoming old. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: They should've saved for retirement. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:35:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you mean survivors benefits in '39, or disability which doesn't affect the OASI? Survivor payments are around 15% of the total. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
when they started paying out to people who had never paid in, it started to die. Survivor payments are around 15% of the total. Her claim was taken by Claims Clerk, Elizabeth Corcoran Burke, and transmitted to the Claims Division in Washington, D.C. for adjudication. The case was adjudicated and reviewed and sent to the Treasury Department for payment in January 1940. The claims were grouped in batches of 1,000 and a Certification List for each batch was sent to Treasury. Miss Fuller's claim was the first one on the first Certification List and so the first Social Security check, check number 00-000-001, was issued to Ida May Fuller in the amount of $22.54 (equivalent to $403 in 2018) and dated January 31, 1940. During her lifetime she collected a total of $22,888.92 in Social Security benefits and paid in $24.75.[1][2] |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:38:10 AM EDT
[#22]
I'm a boomer and I'm willing to get rid of the FDR curse on America and Americans, the SSI.
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:44:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My 10 year old son has never had a social security number. I'm not signing him up for that burden. It's on him if he wants it, its his choice. For every person that says "he has to have one"... Go away, you're wrong. He even has a passport all the while having no SS number. Cannot get a passport without a birth certificate. Cannot get a birth certificate(in UT) without a SS#. I tried to do so 18 years ago when our first daughter was born. She was also a cardiac baby and the insurance company required her SS# for coverage and payment. I appreciate your success, but it is an outlier. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:53:41 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a boomer and I'm willing to get rid of the FDR curse on America and Americans, the SSI. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:56:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5. Disability caused this! No. Just no. By law, the OASI Trust Fund and Disability Insurance Trust Fund are completely separate entities. [1] When the fraud ridden disability insurance trust fund runs low, funds are transferred from Social Security to cover the shortfall. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:57:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is saving worthwhile when the interest rate is near zero? Personally, if the Government subsidizes businesses, then it should subsidize its citizens. I propose a 7% minimum on personal savings. Being able to double your money every 10 years, people will be incentivized to save, and they will have more money to deal with the issues of becoming old. Secondly, you'd be bitching about unaffordable loan rates. Thirdly, a high savings rate tanks economies. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 9:58:03 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our financial advisor talks with us about SS in our yearly review meetings. I always tell him not to factor anything in from SS. I am not counting on anything back from our government when we retire. If we get anything back from SS, I want it to be over and above what we need or planned for. Fun money, gun stuff, hookers and blow, whatever. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 10:01:27 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is saving worthwhile when the interest rate is near zero? Personally, if the Government subsidizes businesses, then it should subsidize its citizens. I propose a 7% minimum on personal savings. Being able to double your money every 10 years, people will be incentivized to save, and they will have more money to deal with the issues of becoming old. Post count? Check! Nevertheless I will play. The point of saving money now is to have money in the future. That may come from principal and interest or it may come from principal only. Either way you will have more in the future if you save more in the present. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 10:04:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe it would have worked if the gov didn't drain the funds |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 10:04:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ratio of workers to beneficiaries reaches 2.2 by 2035, and is expected to decline slowly after that due to longevity increases. ETA: It's 2.8 now. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 10:13:27 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm 40. I have no delusions of collecting a penny of social security - that's why I've saved privately and aggressively for my retirement. Everybody else should do the same.
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Posted: 4/26/2019 10:17:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fact is everyone is a fucking communist it's just a matter of degrees really. Listen to a retired person talk about social security or a farmer talk about ag subsidies. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 10:19:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I discovered the truth about Social Security reading a book by Al Franken: Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations His young research assistant was dying of cancer so Al Franken let him have a chapter about the Ponzi scheme of Social Security and how people in their early 20's (the book was published around 1995-1996) would never receive Social Security despite paying into it. It was a really convincing argument, and I have believed it and acted accordingly. And now 25 years later, the hard facts are coming in. That research assistant was completely right. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 10:22:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what does that mean for a 30 year old who retires around 60-70yo ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what does that mean for a 30 year old who retires around 60-70yo ? Quoted:
Quoted:
I am 42 and have been working and paying in since I was 15. I would gladly forfeit any benefits I might get if they would just let me quit paying anything more going forward. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 10:23:12 AM EDT
[#35]
I'd still like the option to opt out but continue paying until the system can be gradually closed out. I've written off the money as stolen anyway and don't factor it into my future plans. If by doing that I could improve things for my sons then I'm all for it. If the system is to be fixed someone will have to suffer and I'd just as soon get it done.
The "I raised you, you owe me" attitude is disgusting. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 11:23:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Eitek1 Cannot get a passport without a birth certificate. Cannot get a birth certificate(in UT) without a SS#. I tried to do so 18 years ago when our first daughter was born. She was also a cardiac baby and the insurance company required her SS# for coverage and payment. I appreciate your success, but it is an outlier. So here is what I've run into around that. "They" tried that when I signed my son up for public school. I hear all the time "you HAVE to have a social security number to do X". I say "prove it, by the way, here is the case law that disagrees with you. Please read the area's that are highlighted in yellow". At that point all of the sudden he doesn't need one anymore. You will hear you need one all the time. I heard the same thing around the passport application. What the law says around this is that if you already have one it's against the law not to put it on the application. It's pretty cleverly worded but it never says you HAVE to have one. If you read it you will just assume you do. I just left it blank and the state dept. wrote me a letter and said please respond with a signed statement that he has never had one and we will process it, which I did. He received it shortly after. In your case, I quickly looked at the laws in Utah around birth certificates and saw no mention of requiring a social security number. HERE is a link to the law in Utah. I'm pretty sure you were told that by the folks in the Hospital. They tried that with me too. It would be against the law for them to require that your son be signed up for a federal program for the state to issue him a birth certificate. I don't think that would hold up to a lawsuit. I'm not sure about your insurance company. There is a medicare reporting requirement that says my son has to have one but I have ignored it so far and he is 10 years old. He is covered under United Healthcare so it's not a thing for them at least. Let me give you a tip. No one ever actually reads the rules. They just repeat what they have heard as the gospel truth. ETA... I found a better LINK. There is no legal requirement in Utah for a child to have a social security number prior to being issued a birth certificate in the state of Utah. If you can find something different I'd love to see it. This isn't a personal challenge BTW. I'm just really interested in the laws around this stuff and if you see something different that contradicts what I believe I'd appreciate you letting me know. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 11:45:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Socialism at its finest.
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Posted: 4/26/2019 11:47:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a fucking heartbeat right now. I am under 40. I can do more with that money for my future than the fluberment ever could. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Sure you would. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 11:54:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Its my “boomer tax” - I don’t count on ever seeing a penny of that money. If I do, it’ll be a surprise.
That’s why I max out the 401(k), keep an IRA, and invest every cent I can scrounge. Nobody (least of all the fucking government) is going to take care of me in my old age - I’m going to have to take care of myself. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 11:56:10 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @UtahShotgunner So here is what I've run into around that. "They" tried that when I signed my son up for public school. I hear all the time "you HAVE to have a social security number to do X". I say "prove it, by the way, here is the case law that disagrees with you. Please read the area's that are highlighted in yellow". At that point all of the sudden he doesn't need one anymore. You will hear you need one all the time. I heard the same thing around the passport application. What the law says around this is that if you already have one it's against the law not to put it on the application. It's pretty cleverly worded but it never says you HAVE to have one. If you read it you will just assume you do. I just left it blank and the state dept. wrote me a letter and said please respond with a signed statement that he has never had one and we will process it, which I did. He received it shortly after. In your case, I quickly looked at the laws in Utah around birth certificates and saw no mention of requiring a social security number. HERE is a link to the law in Utah. I'm pretty sure you were told that by the folks in the Hospital. They tried that with me too. It would be against the law for them to require that your son be signed up for a federal program for the state to issue him a birth certificate. I don't think that would hold up to a lawsuit. I'm not sure about your insurance company. There is a medicare reporting requirement that says my son has to have one but I have ignored it so far and he is 10 years old. He is covered under United Healthcare so it's not a thing for them at least. Let me give you a tip. No one ever actually reads the rules. They just repeat what they have heard as the gospel truth. ETA... I found a better LINK. There is no legal requirement in Utah for a child to have a social security number prior to being issued a birth certificate in the state of Utah. If you can find something different I'd love to see it. This isn't a personal challenge BTW. I'm just really interested in the laws around this stuff and if you see something different that contradicts what I believe I'd appreciate you letting me know. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 11:57:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still would. Even though it wouldn't personally financially benefit me, the idea that my son would live in a country where we aren't crippled by ridiculous socialist programs would be worth it. It's a shame that so many folks are perfectly content to burn the whole place down as long as they get theirs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not reading all that. All I know is that if there was a box where I could opt out of it and get back everything I've put in so far I'd check it in an instant. It's a shame that so many folks are perfectly content to burn the whole place down as long as they get theirs. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 11:57:13 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SS is a social welfare program. We pay an extra tax (in addition to federal income tax) to fund the welfare program. The rest of the details don't change that. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 11:57:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
“The government should” give me money.
Where does the government get it’s money again? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: They should've saved for retirement.
Where does the government get it’s money again? |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 11:57:48 AM EDT
[#44]
The solution is simple, we need to pay out more entitlements to illegals and foreigners at the expense of our own self and children.
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Posted: 4/26/2019 12:00:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In its ruling, the Court rejected this argument and established the principle that entitlement to Social Security benefits is not contractual right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you know the Feds have no obligation to refund your tax money either. They can if they decide to do so, simply apply it to any further obligations you may have. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 12:01:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We be doomed. Like it or not, it isn't going anywhere. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 12:02:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fact is everyone is a fucking communist it's just a matter of degrees really. Listen to a retired person talk about social security or a farmer talk about ag subsidies. They make our food far too cheap. This prevents / reduces innovation and improvements to the growing process that would help improve our lives. |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 12:04:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I have planned for my retirement, I have taken a realistic approach to SS. Here are my conclusions: - I can’t stop FICA deductions from my current earnings, so I don’t worry about them. - I don’t plan SS benefits in my retirement income because I don’t trust the government over the long term. I fully expect a means based distribution of benefits to come into play in order to keep it solvent. - If I do receive SS benefits, I will be getting the maximum amount which will just be frosting on the cake. It will be nice, but I will be fine in retirement without it. That said, I have no problem taking any benefits I have earned and that I am entitled to by law. Retirement cash flows need to be multi layered. Start by being 100% debt free to maximize the effectiveness, then have funds coming from several sources. Begin saving and planning as soon as you are working full time. Waiting until 5-10 years before you retire is a sure way to fail. How they do it is by taxing up to 85% of the SS income depending upon your other income. Make too much before full retirement and they will reduce your SS |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 12:06:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want my money!!!  JG Wentworth Opera |
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Posted: 4/26/2019 12:14:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Over the last decade, the accounts have earned between 3.75 percent and 5.75 percent every year, with an average of around 5 percent. Once the county makes its contribution, its financial obligation is done. So there are no long-term unfunded liabilities. And Social Security isn't just a retirement fund; it's social insurance that provides a death benefit -- a whopping $255 -- survivors' insurance, and a disability benefit.
Part of the employer contribution in the Alternate Plan goes toward a term life insurance policy, which pays four times the employee's salary tax free, up to a maximum of $215,000. That's nearly 850 times Social Security's death benefit. I'm personally willing to negotiate a buy-out, with the mature understanding that none of the money I have been forcibly required to pay is available for me, and that any expectations of pay-out I have been told will be there for me is dependent on stealing the fruits of future generations. Instead of a monthly monetary pay-out, I am willing to accept a one-time transfer of land parcels that are currently claimed as BLM land in my beautiful State. 
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