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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:19:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No "military training value" isn't exactly the same as "no military value" or "no security value." Simple question: Are the National Guard stopping anybody from crossing our borders? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:20:47 PM EDT
[#2]
I thought the NG is more about rescue, responding to disasters than anything else.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:21:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." Like building barricades? And maybe shooting positions to guard those barricades? That kind of training to defer adversaries? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:21:55 PM EDT
[#4]
What border?
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:22:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good retire him right now and move his house within 60 miles of the southern border. Good luck chief. We don't need a civilian authority with military powers, they already abuse the shit out of the constitution. We're not talking about how shit is supposed to work, count on everything being perverted. You do realize he didn't speak one word about the actual border issue or the legitimacy of the mission right? Only about the stresses it causes his organization, which is not designed to operate like this. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:23:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Make everywhere outside ~1 mile of an actual border crossing and inside ~1 mile of the southern border a weapons free zone. Problem solved, they'll get plenty of training.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:24:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like building barricades? And maybe shooting positions to guard those barricades? That kind of training to defer adversaries? No, not that kind of training. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:25:41 PM EDT
[#8]
What a moron
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:26:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that's left, I guess they feel it's a burden too. RIP USA.  Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. It's not about individuals wanting or not wanting to. It's about readiness for their primary mission set atrophying due to this indefinite mission on the border which should be done by LE. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:29:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like building barricades? And maybe shooting positions to guard those barricades? That kind of training to defer adversaries? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." Like building barricades? And maybe shooting positions to guard those barricades? That kind of training to defer adversaries? So your understanding of military training is equal to that of a child playing GI Joe, got it. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:32:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not about individuals wanting or not wanting to. It's about readiness for their primary mission set atrophying due to this indefinite mission on the border which should be done by LE. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that's left, I guess they feel it's a burden too. RIP USA. Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. It's not about individuals wanting or not wanting to. It's about readiness for their primary mission set atrophying due to this indefinite mission on the border which should be done by LE. Well maybe NG should expand their mission and market it as such. Think of how many more people would sign up. Hell, think of how many people on this forum would volunteer to join up to go do that mission. I bet it's a lot. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:37:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well maybe NG should expand their mission and market it as such. Think of how many more people would sign up. Hell, think of how many people on this forum would volunteer to join up to go do that mission. I bet it's a lot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that's left, I guess they feel it's a burden too. RIP USA. Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. It's not about individuals wanting or not wanting to. It's about readiness for their primary mission set atrophying due to this indefinite mission on the border which should be done by LE. Well maybe NG should expand their mission and market it as such. Think of how many more people would sign up. Hell, think of how many people on this forum would volunteer to join up to go do that mission. I bet it's a lot. Sure. But then whose going to man, train, and equip to cover down on their current mission? Seems like we already have agencies who's job it is to secure the border...they're not because of politics. The NG isn't going to solve this problem. In fact BP isn't either...the solution to this problem has to come from the fed. The NG chief is right. He was given a mission to man, train, and equip his folks for, and it's not an LE mission on the border. He is currently pointing out that he cannot conduct that mission because his guys are instead doing a mission they aren't trained or equipped or meant to be doing. The NG chief doesn't simply just get to decide to expand his mission. That's not how this works. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:38:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well maybe NG should expand their mission and market it as such. Think of how many more people would sign up. Hell, think of how many people on this forum would volunteer to join up to go do that mission. I bet it's a lot. Recruiting is down and personnel are leaving. That's not feasible, so OPTEMPO needs to be reduced to meet critical mission capabilities. They aren't able to right now. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:39:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Trump: You're Fired!!!
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:39:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure. But then whose going to man, train, and equip to cover down on their current mission? Seems like we already have agencies who's job it is to secure the border...they're not because of politics. The NG isn't going to solve this problem. In fact BP isn't either...the solution to this problem has to come from the fed. The NG chief is right. He was given a mission to man, train, and equip his folks for, and it's not an LE mission on the border. He is currently pointing out that he cannot conduct that mission because his guys are instead doing a mission they aren't trained or equipped or meant to be doing. The NG chief doesn't simply just get to decide to expand his mission. That's not how this works. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that's left, I guess they feel it's a burden too. RIP USA. Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. It's not about individuals wanting or not wanting to. It's about readiness for their primary mission set atrophying due to this indefinite mission on the border which should be done by LE. Well maybe NG should expand their mission and market it as such. Think of how many more people would sign up. Hell, think of how many people on this forum would volunteer to join up to go do that mission. I bet it's a lot. Sure. But then whose going to man, train, and equip to cover down on their current mission? Seems like we already have agencies who's job it is to secure the border...they're not because of politics. The NG isn't going to solve this problem. In fact BP isn't either...the solution to this problem has to come from the fed. The NG chief is right. He was given a mission to man, train, and equip his folks for, and it's not an LE mission on the border. He is currently pointing out that he cannot conduct that mission because his guys are instead doing a mission they aren't trained or equipped or meant to be doing. The NG chief doesn't simply just get to decide to expand his mission. That's not how this works. I'm telling you. People would be signing up to leave their job and families in droves to head to the border. Have you not read the posts on this forum? This is a no-brainer for the National Guard. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:43:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm telling you. People would be signing up to leave their job and families in droves to head to the border. Have you not read the posts on this forum? This is a no-brainer for the National Guard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that's left, I guess they feel it's a burden too. RIP USA. Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. It's not about individuals wanting or not wanting to. It's about readiness for their primary mission set atrophying due to this indefinite mission on the border which should be done by LE. Well maybe NG should expand their mission and market it as such. Think of how many more people would sign up. Hell, think of how many people on this forum would volunteer to join up to go do that mission. I bet it's a lot. Sure. But then whose going to man, train, and equip to cover down on their current mission? Seems like we already have agencies who's job it is to secure the border...they're not because of politics. The NG isn't going to solve this problem. In fact BP isn't either...the solution to this problem has to come from the fed. The NG chief is right. He was given a mission to man, train, and equip his folks for, and it's not an LE mission on the border. He is currently pointing out that he cannot conduct that mission because his guys are instead doing a mission they aren't trained or equipped or meant to be doing. The NG chief doesn't simply just get to decide to expand his mission. That's not how this works. I'm telling you. People would be signing up to leave their job and families in droves to head to the border. Have you not read the posts on this forum? This is a no-brainer for the National Guard. Ah yeah I got you. Of course, all of GD will be nut to butt in the back of the 7 ton headed to the border. ETA- sometimes I hit reply without really paying attention who I'm replying to 
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:45:57 PM EDT
[#17]
I wonder what that clown thought about mobilizing the guard to threaten us citizens after January 6th. That was a very low point for the guard
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:48:18 PM EDT
[#18]
For non prior service civilians who might be confused following the thread METL are the requirements expected of the unit and are laid out in detail and evaluated annually.
A soldier or Marine is required to know their individual tasks such as marksmanship or land navigation which the leadership may dedicate time to with refresher training at the squad or platoon level but the primary focus of training is collective tasks at company, battalion, brigade, division level in which the entire unit not individual servicemembers performs its assigned tasks to standard. Infantry is fundamentally focused on closing with and destroying enemy forces so it’s going to have tasks in which the entire company or battalion or brigade operates {roughly 150, 600+ and 3-5,000 soldiers} are executing their tasks as an entire unit to standard whether that’s breaching obstacles for engineers or setting up a field hospital for a medical battalion} The Commander and their unit are evaluated on their ability to execute all of their mission essential tasks  Training Proficiency |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:56:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For non prior service civilians who might be confused following the thread METL are the requirements expected of the unit and are laid out in detail and evaluated annually. A soldier or Marine is required to know their individual tasks such as marksmanship or land navigation which the leadership may dedicate time to with refresher training at the squad or platoon level but the primary focus of training is collective tasks at company, battalion, brigade, division level in which the entire unit not individual servicemembers performs its assigned tasks to standard. Infantry is fundamentally focused on closing with and destroying enemy forces so it’s going to have tasks in which the entire company or battalion or brigade operates {roughly 150, 600+ and 3-5,000 soldiers} are executing their tasks as an entire unit to standard whether that’s breaching obstacles for engineers or setting up a field hospital for a medical battalion} The Commander and their unit are evaluated on their ability to execute all of their mission essential tasks  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFKftKxGv8YJust to caveat, it's not just training, but also certification. Certification has mandatory timeframes that it needs to be maintained, otherwise base qualifications can't be met that push subsequent certification and qualification back. Training is part of the certifying process, and any delay acts exponentially on a unit as they have to deconflict with other units, supply sources and training sites to accomplish those METL tasks. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:58:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Nothing to militate into the guise of democracy. Now some Arabs with some oil and shit. We will defend the fuck out their territory!
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Posted: 6/18/2024 6:59:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. He says it has no training value, not military value as the title states. He also stated it creates an undue burden, which is correct. The national guard is not designed for enduring nonstop missions, like OLS or OSS, yet they are being cycled nonstop. Both missions offer static employment typically not conducting their core missions by unit or MOS, thus not providing training value. All training time has now been absorbed by a separate mission and units are unable to train and validate in their required tasks. The second order effects of this are no units ready to perform their actual military function, augmentation of active forces with military skill sets during a time of need. He's saying it's not their job to be full time border patrol and he is correct. Excellent synopsis. The bottom line is the Biden administration continues to destroy a once great nation. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 7:00:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like building barricades? And maybe shooting positions to guard those barricades? That kind of training to defer adversaries?  METLs Mission Essential Task List Explained | CommandReady |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 7:02:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the NG is more about rescue, responding to disasters than anything else. State mission but due to GWOT operational requirements ARNG has primarily been dedicated to active duty wartime missions for the last 20 years |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 7:02:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Excellent synopsis. The bottom line is the Biden administration continues to destroy a once great nation. Basically |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 7:02:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except they aren't. If they were actually digging in, laying fields of fire, and lighting up the invaders with small arms and artillery then yes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Isn't that what the national guard is for, to respond to domestic emergencies such as our Southern border being invaded? If they were actually digging in, laying fields of fire, and lighting up the invaders with small arms and artillery then yes. Is that what they’re doing during flooding? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 7:03:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just to caveat, it's not just training, but also certification. Certification has mandatory timeframes that it needs to be maintained, otherwise base qualifications can't be met that push subsequent certification and qualification back. Training is part of the certifying process, and any delay acts exponentially on a unit as they have to deconflict with other units, supply sources and training sites to accomplish those METL tasks. Correct - the video pertains to evaluation updates |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 7:10:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that what they’re doing during flooding? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isn't that what the national guard is for, to respond to domestic emergencies such as our Southern border being invaded? If they were actually digging in, laying fields of fire, and lighting up the invaders with small arms and artillery then yes. Is that what they’re doing during flooding? I would highly doubt it. More than likely they would be filling sandbags in affected communities. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 7:12:04 PM EDT
[#28]
The NG follows orders. They are executing the orders that they have been given.
The orders are stupid and pointless, and their services are being wasted. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 7:19:07 PM EDT
[#29]
https://www.moore.army.mil/mssp/infantry%20heritage/
War Plans. The most critical inputs to METL development are the organization's wartime operations and contingency plans. The missions and related information provided in these plans are key to determining essential training tasks. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 7:41:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Waiting for the Democrats to tell the NG Chief he needs to open up the armories to house the 'migrants'.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:00:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm happy to talk to you about this, but ditch the attitude and stop pretending I said things I didn't. I didn't say defending the border isn't important. I didn't say marksmanship doesn't count. I did say that there's a lot more to being an infantryman and artilleryman than marksmanship, and I'm correct about that. There's also a lot more to it than fitness and medical. Small unit tactics, immediate actions, basic fucking infantry skills that go way beyond simple marksmanship. Things that apparently you don't know about- that's not a dig, it's okay not to know about those things. Just stop pretending you do. Yes, ACTUAL training IN YOUR MOS for 40 days is better readiness than doing something NOT MOS RELATED 365 days a year. Having been in the infantry on active duty, and also served as a reservist these are things I actually know about. I've been responsible for training 80+ Marines with those 40 days. You are saying things that illustrate that you either have no experience with the infantry or reserve duty or extremely low level experience. It's imperative because that's their mission. Their mission is not LE on the border. That's Border Patrol's mission. This is what the Chief is saying. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) I'm happy to talk to you about this, but ditch the attitude and stop pretending I said things I didn't. I didn't say defending the border isn't important. I didn't say marksmanship doesn't count. I did say that there's a lot more to being an infantryman and artilleryman than marksmanship, and I'm correct about that. There's also a lot more to it than fitness and medical. Small unit tactics, immediate actions, basic fucking infantry skills that go way beyond simple marksmanship. Things that apparently you don't know about- that's not a dig, it's okay not to know about those things. Just stop pretending you do. Yes, ACTUAL training IN YOUR MOS for 40 days is better readiness than doing something NOT MOS RELATED 365 days a year. Having been in the infantry on active duty, and also served as a reservist these are things I actually know about. I've been responsible for training 80+ Marines with those 40 days. You are saying things that illustrate that you either have no experience with the infantry or reserve duty or extremely low level experience. It's imperative because that's their mission. Their mission is not LE on the border. That's Border Patrol's mission. This is what the Chief is saying. LOL, a real leader would say defending the homeland is our #1 priority and we will work to get our MOS training done when we can integrate it into our primary mission of defending America. But Gen. Daniel Hokanson is a follower. Maybe he just needs to check in with the CCP like another general we all know: US general defends 'secret' phone calls with China John J. Pershing and George S. Patton didn't consider the US border an LE mission. But they were real leaders too. Not pussies with excuses. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:11:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Welcome to 2022:
Governor Abbott Authorizes Texas National Guard, Texas Department Of Public Safety To Return Illegal Immigrants To Border (2022) "While President Biden refuses to do his job and enforce the immigration laws enacted by Congress, the State of Texas is once again stepping up and taking unprecedented action to protect Americans and secure our southern border," said Governor Abbott. "I have authorized the Texas National Guard and Texas Department of Public Safety to begin returning illegal immigrants to the border to stop this criminal enterprise endangering our communities," continued Governor Abbott. Arresting and jailing criminals trespassing or committing other state crimes along the southern border |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:14:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." Are they going to shoot a flood to death? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:15:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Fine. We’ll stand up an ad how militia.
Nature abhors a vacuum… |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:17:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." One of my crew chiefs is there. He's not getting a lot of aircraft maintenance experience there. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:23:17 PM EDT
[#36]
If they would supply them with live ammo and let them use it then it would provide military training
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:24:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, a real leader would say defending the homeland is our #1 priority and we will work to get our MOS training done when we can integrate it into our primary mission of defending America. But Gen. Daniel Hokanson is a follower. Maybe he just needs to check in with the CCP like another general we all know: US general defends 'secret' phone calls with China John J. Pershing and George S. Patton didn't consider the US border an LE mission. But they were real leaders too. Not pussies with excuses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) I'm happy to talk to you about this, but ditch the attitude and stop pretending I said things I didn't. I didn't say defending the border isn't important. I didn't say marksmanship doesn't count. I did say that there's a lot more to being an infantryman and artilleryman than marksmanship, and I'm correct about that. There's also a lot more to it than fitness and medical. Small unit tactics, immediate actions, basic fucking infantry skills that go way beyond simple marksmanship. Things that apparently you don't know about- that's not a dig, it's okay not to know about those things. Just stop pretending you do. Yes, ACTUAL training IN YOUR MOS for 40 days is better readiness than doing something NOT MOS RELATED 365 days a year. Having been in the infantry on active duty, and also served as a reservist these are things I actually know about. I've been responsible for training 80+ Marines with those 40 days. You are saying things that illustrate that you either have no experience with the infantry or reserve duty or extremely low level experience. It's imperative because that's their mission. Their mission is not LE on the border. That's Border Patrol's mission. This is what the Chief is saying. LOL, a real leader would say defending the homeland is our #1 priority and we will work to get our MOS training done when we can integrate it into our primary mission of defending America. But Gen. Daniel Hokanson is a follower. Maybe he just needs to check in with the CCP like another general we all know: US general defends 'secret' phone calls with China John J. Pershing and George S. Patton didn't consider the US border an LE mission. But they were real leaders too. Not pussies with excuses. Listen. You don't even have the baseline requisite knowledge to discuss this and you apparently don't have the common sense to grasp what the General is saying. You have a bunch of guys with actual experience trying to explain this to you, but you refuse to listen and instead call names. I could literally explain this issue to my 17 year old and he would get it. The fact you think he's a pussy with excuses illustrates that you genuinely have no fucking clue what you're talking about. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:25:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of my crew chiefs is there. He's not getting a lot of aircraft maintenance experience there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." One of my crew chiefs is there. He's not getting a lot of aircraft maintenance experience there. Exactly. When he comes back to you, he's going to need serious refresher and likely won't be able to do his chiefly duties. Am I right? But GD knows better. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:26:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are they called out during. Natural disasters? Are they going to shoot a flood to death? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." Are they going to shoot a flood to death? HADR is one of their missions. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:27:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Listen. You don't even have the baseline requisite knowledge to discuss this and you apparently don't have the common sense to grasp what the General is saying. You have a bunch of guys with actual experience trying to explain this to you, but you refuse to listen and instead call names. I could literally explain this issue to my 17 year old and he would get it. The fact you think he's a pussy with excuses illustrates that you genuinely have no fucking clue what you're talking about. I think they think the national guard guys are like manning fox holes and battle stations like they're on a front line or something. Fighting some kind of war on the southern border. Look I haven't been down there but I'm pretty sure they're doing a lot of nothing. Good photo ops though. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:28:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are they called out during. Natural disasters? Are they going to shoot a flood to death? That's not because of its military value but because of the state emergency mission. However, just like when a city says they should activate the National Guard because of a crime problem the root cause needs to be analyzed. If it's because of shitty political decisions then the solution is political. If it's because of a natural disaster then the value isn't military experience and isn't something that the civil authorities can handle for reason's beyond man's control. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:28:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They'll have the Coasties replace the NG. Good DHS can best direct them too... 
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:29:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are they called out during. Natural disasters? Are they going to shoot a flood to death? Unskilled labor for filling sand bags and other simple tasks. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:29:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think they think the national guard guys are like manning fox holes and battle stations like they're on a front line or something. Fighting some kind of war on the southern border. Look I haven't been down there but I'm pretty sure they're doing a lot of nothing. Good photo ops though. You ever pull radio guard in a Humvee trying to pass time until chow? I get the feeling a lot of the border stuff is that, walking around with BP/DPS guys and gate guard. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:31:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. When he comes back to you, he's going to need serious refresher and likely won't be able to do his chiefly duties. Am I right? But GD knows better. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." One of my crew chiefs is there. He's not getting a lot of aircraft maintenance experience there. Exactly. When he comes back to you, he's going to need serious refresher and likely won't be able to do his chiefly duties. Am I right? But GD knows better. After a few months gone he won't lose that much, but he also won't learn nearly as much as if he spent the same amount of days working his AFSC. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:31:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You ever pull radio guard in a Humvee trying to pass time until chow? I get the feeling a lot of the border stuff is that, walking around with BP/DPS guys and gate guard. Yep. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:31:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the role of the military again? He's probably not wrong. Defending America? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:32:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Defending America? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What is the role of the military again? He's probably not wrong. Defending America? And what's the role of the Border Patrol? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:32:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No "military training value" isn't exactly the same as "no military value" or "no security value." yeah the title is just a little misleading |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:33:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that’s left, I guess they feel it’s a burden too. RIP USA. Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. Amen. |
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