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Posted: 9/12/2024 6:44:12 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Help train folks to make sure the transport ships never make the voyage intact? Taiwan has anti shipping mines for that. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 6:55:12 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are dreaming. The strait between China and Taiwan would be the new Iron Bottom Sound with Chinese ships and equipment. Yep. Once the first China ship hits a mine in the Taiwan Strait, all the ships will stop. Then it becomes a shooting gallery. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 6:58:28 AM EST
[#3]
The SEALS should swing by the Philippines next. That’s where the fight with China is currently happening.
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:02:27 AM EST
[#4]
Nothing new.
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:03:17 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that the job of the Green Berets? Ha beat! Maybe they’re going to swim out and blow up the transports? |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:05:13 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Teaching them to write books and do podcasts? Hair gel styling 101. With the classic asian very straight hair they have their work cut out for them. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:05:17 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Help train folks to make sure the transport ships never make the voyage intact? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What exactly is a handful of Navy Seals going to do to stop a billion screaming Chinamen? Help train folks to make sure the transport ships never make the voyage intact? But do the seals have training on ballistic missiles, drone swarms, stopping 1000 strike aircraft, stopping 3000 naval boats or all sorts? |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:07:15 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who won the war? by that argument, we lost Afghanistan and Iraq. ending occupation, is not losing. Fuck the liberal talking points. "we lost xxxxxx". What was the objective? |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:25:59 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that the job of the Green Berets? It’s a core competence of all SoF and increasingly so general purpose forces. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:26:54 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are dreaming. The strait between China and Taiwan would be the new Iron Bottom Sound with Chinese ships and equipment. You know who does not think that? The USN |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:31:27 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who won the war? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many Seals did the NVA kill ? How many NVA did the Seals kill ? Who won the war? Mcnamara |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:40:59 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: by that argument, we lost Afghanistan and Iraq. ending occupation, is not losing. Fuck the liberal talking points. "we lost xxxxxx". What was the objective? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who won the war? by that argument, we lost Afghanistan and Iraq. ending occupation, is not losing. Fuck the liberal talking points. "we lost xxxxxx". What was the objective?  Um, yes we did lose the war in Afghanistan. Badly.Ending an occupation after losing nearly 3,000 men and spending nearly a trillion dollars, and then giving the country back to the Taliban with a parting gift of $7 billion worth of new weapons, is by any rational and normal definition considered to be "losing" the war. In 1945 if we had gone into Germany, deposed Hitler, fought an insurgency until 1965, and then allowed the Nazis to take full control of the country as soon as we left while giving them enough weapons to rebuild and modernize the Wehrmacht, would you consider that to be a victory? Because that's what happened in Afghanistan. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:41:37 AM EST
[#13]
Taiwan: OMG! WE ARE GONNA GET INVADED.
Also Taiwain: OMG, ALL GUNS ARE ILLEGAL! Doesn't matter if we are going to get invaded. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:53:23 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The PRC's best bet is to wait another 10 years while the U.S. transitions back into being a mere regional power. They don't have the time demographically. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 7:54:59 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. Once the first China ship hits a mine in the Taiwan Strait, all the ships will stop. Then it becomes a shooting gallery. Well jeeze, don't say that on here, what if they Chinese are reading this! they could never think up naval mines as a possible obstacle on their own! |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 8:03:27 AM EST
[#16]
A massive D Day style invasion isn't out of the question, but it's probably the least likely of 3 plausible scenarios in which China tries to take Taiwan
A color revolution/little green men approach (use agents in place to incite civil unrest, topple the government, and fly in "peacekeepers") and a naval blockade, or a combination of the 2, are much more likely |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 8:11:20 AM EST
[#17]
Good luck,
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Posted: 9/12/2024 8:13:17 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: by that argument, we lost Afghanistan and Iraq. ending occupation, is not losing. Fuck the liberal talking points. "we lost xxxxxx". What was the objective? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who won the war? by that argument, we lost Afghanistan and Iraq. ending occupation, is not losing. Fuck the liberal talking points. "we lost xxxxxx". What was the objective? Yes; we did lose. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 8:23:48 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who won the war? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many Seals did the NVA kill ? How many NVA did the Seals kill ? Who won the war? This is such a needlessly ignorant post on so many levels. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 8:33:38 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who the mayor is of Taipei would have no direct impact on the USA. The chips will still flow. A war wouldn’t be in the best interest of the USA You are assuming the chip factories would be taken intact and fully operational. Good luck with that dream. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 8:43:41 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Um, yes we did lose the war in Afghanistan. Badly.Ending an occupation after losing nearly 3,000 men and spending nearly a trillion dollars, and then giving the country back to the Taliban with a parting gift of $7 billion worth of new weapons, is by any rational and normal definition considered to be "losing" the war. In 1945 if we had gone into Germany, deposed Hitler, fought an insurgency until 1965, and then allowed the Nazis to take full control of the country as soon as we left while giving them enough weapons to rebuild and modernize the Wehrmacht, would you consider that to be a victory? Because that's what happened in Afghanistan. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Who won the war? by that argument, we lost Afghanistan and Iraq. ending occupation, is not losing. Fuck the liberal talking points. "we lost xxxxxx". What was the objective? Um, yes we did lose the war in Afghanistan. Badly.Ending an occupation after losing nearly 3,000 men and spending nearly a trillion dollars, and then giving the country back to the Taliban with a parting gift of $7 billion worth of new weapons, is by any rational and normal definition considered to be "losing" the war. In 1945 if we had gone into Germany, deposed Hitler, fought an insurgency until 1965, and then allowed the Nazis to take full control of the country as soon as we left while giving them enough weapons to rebuild and modernize the Wehrmacht, would you consider that to be a victory? Because that's what happened in Afghanistan. But, thats not what we did. In the end, you get the results (and government) you deserve. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 8:47:01 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What exactly is a handful of Navy Seals going to do to stop a billion screaming Chinamen? Make sure no one runs out of hair gel. Duh. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 8:58:03 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. sucks to read, but with the risk adverse, UniParty in power....no appetite for winning. Once we overthrew AQ and Taliban in the initial few months, killed everyone that needed killed, destroyed everything that needed destroyed...we should have left that shithole and moved on. Ok, if you want to really play to win, then allow Delta and the proper level of resources to fight and win at Tora Bora and not allow anyone to walk away alive. Kill everyone...then leave. Fly some C-17's over later and drop MRE's if you really want to make yourself feel good, but otherwise...televise the smoking hole in the ground that was AFG to the world and let everyone know they are next if they try something similar. But, thats not what we did. In the end, you get the results (and government) you deserve. Don't forget the part where we pay the TB about $100 million A WEEK right now. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:00:33 AM EST
[#24]
Unless China has some tech or tactics that we are unaware of, invading Taiwan would be an absolute bloodbath for them.
There is no element of surprise anymore, so transporting troops across the strait would result in tens of thousands of deaths, even without the US helping with weapons and targeting tech. Even if the Chinese somehow pull it off, they won't be the same country afterwards. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:05:55 AM EST
[#25]
is the plan to create an oil slick from excess hair product and set it on fire?
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:09:53 AM EST
[#26]
Feel good deployment.
If Taiwan was ever serious about repelling a PRC invasion, they would have gone with the Swiss model decades ago. Singapore has a fantastic military and nobody is actively making threats against them. Their military isn't all that great, ROC or the US dragging on delivery or both. I don't think anyone believe PRC will invade ROC, until PRC decides to embark on the stupid endeavor for whatever reason. Anyway, PRC doesn’t need to do a forced entry unless they want to prove a point on the world stage. A lot of the younger generation in Taiwan don’t see China as a huge threat or they just don’t care, China will likely own Taiwan in the future and it will be a soft takeover. Most of these places (Iraq, ROC, places in Africa) will last right up until we no longer shovel time and money into them, sooner or later we won’t be able to. I had a Japanese culture course, this touchy feely fag instructor went on about the decline of the US, we won’t be important, yada yada, on day one. This is early into Iraq. Man, I went off on this anti-American fuck. 19yrs later, I realize the guy was right… and it’s, likely, his fucking party/politics/type that are to blame for it. That instructor really pissed me off. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:11:28 AM EST
[#27]
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:15:41 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that the job of the Green Berets? Well, they could be there and you wouldn't know because Instagram posting isn't part of their mission set. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:18:28 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Help map the beach LZs and give ideas on how to complicate any landing. That was OG SEAL mission. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What exactly is a handful of Navy Seals going to do to stop a billion screaming Chinamen? Help map the beach LZs and give ideas on how to complicate any landing. That was OG SEAL mission. I would think that would be a regular SEAL specialty? You never hear a Team 6 guy talk about ocean floor mapping on their podcasts. I can't remember who said it but someone in the military recently gave an interview and basically said we spent the last 20 years fighting terrorism and have strayed a long, long way from preparing for a full on war against another major country. I think he is right to some extent. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:20:56 AM EST
[#30]
That’s not going to stop 1.6 billion chinamen.
Taiwan needs to accept their fate. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:21:04 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that the job of the Green Berets? I would've thought it was the job of the USMC. Amphibious stuff is kind of their deal. Along with USN and USAF to keep the missiles and airborne troops away. But SEALs sounds better in the press, so... Far more deterring would be announcing that we're selling Taiwan F-35s, as well as finally giving them the rest of the stuff they've already paid for. And if we're not also going to sell them Aegis Ashore, then having US personnel stationed in Taiwan and using it would be a gigantic deterrent. Are we serious about ensuring Taiwan's integrity versus China, or not? We're running into the limits of the intentional ambiguity strategy, and instead giving the impression that we might run when hit. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:21:16 AM EST
[#32]
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:24:12 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would've thought it was the job of the USMC. Amphibious stuff is kind of their deal. Along with USN and USAF to keep the missiles and airborne troops away. But SEALs sounds better in the press, so... Far more deterring would be announcing that we're selling Taiwan F-35s, as well as finally giving them the rest of the stuff they've already paid for. And if we're not also going to sell them Aegis Ashore, then having US personnel stationed in Taiwan and using it would be a gigantic deterrent. Are we serious about ensuring Taiwan's integrity versus China, or not? We're running into the limits of the intentional ambiguity strategy, and instead giving the impression that we might run when hit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Isn't that the job of the Green Berets? I would've thought it was the job of the USMC. Amphibious stuff is kind of their deal. Along with USN and USAF to keep the missiles and airborne troops away. But SEALs sounds better in the press, so... Far more deterring would be announcing that we're selling Taiwan F-35s, as well as finally giving them the rest of the stuff they've already paid for. And if we're not also going to sell them Aegis Ashore, then having US personnel stationed in Taiwan and using it would be a gigantic deterrent. Are we serious about ensuring Taiwan's integrity versus China, or not? We're running into the limits of the intentional ambiguity strategy, and instead giving the impression that we might run when hit. There has been a revolving door of organizations over there |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:26:09 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mcnamara Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How many Seals did the NVA kill ? How many NVA did the Seals kill ? Who won the war? Mcnamara Bell Helicopters and Brown & Root? Yes, we lost those three wars. The NVA won, so did the Taliban, and probably so will Iran in Iraq. Saddam lost too, true. Both sides can easily lose a war, as we all might find out if the PRC gets stupid. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:32:05 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. sucks to read, but with the risk adverse, UniParty in power....no appetite for winning. Once we overthrew AQ and Taliban in the initial few months, killed everyone that needed killed, destroyed everything that needed destroyed...we should have left that shithole and moved on. Ok, if you want to really play to win, then allow Delta and the proper level of resources to fight and win at Tora Bora and not allow anyone to walk away alive. Kill everyone...then leave. Fly some C-17's over later and drop MRE's if you really want to make yourself feel good, but otherwise...televise the smoking hole in the ground that was AFG to the world and let everyone know they are next if they try something similar. But, thats not what we did. In the end, you get the results (and government) you deserve. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Who won the war? by that argument, we lost Afghanistan and Iraq. ending occupation, is not losing. Fuck the liberal talking points. "we lost xxxxxx". What was the objective? Um, yes we did lose the war in Afghanistan. Badly.Ending an occupation after losing nearly 3,000 men and spending nearly a trillion dollars, and then giving the country back to the Taliban with a parting gift of $7 billion worth of new weapons, is by any rational and normal definition considered to be "losing" the war. In 1945 if we had gone into Germany, deposed Hitler, fought an insurgency until 1965, and then allowed the Nazis to take full control of the country as soon as we left while giving them enough weapons to rebuild and modernize the Wehrmacht, would you consider that to be a victory? Because that's what happened in Afghanistan. But, thats not what we did. In the end, you get the results (and government) you deserve. Considering the Taliban was, if not a creation of the ISI, then at least asshole buddies (in many senses of that phrase), then winning in Afghanistan would have required action against Pakistan too. At least in KP. Which the Bush Administration wasn't willing to do, and the Obama Administration was only interested in so much as they could have a photo op from it. (And very likely asked permission ahead of time.) 20 year occupation, unless we were going to colonize them, and still have to do punitive raids against sullen hillmen (as Churchill described them, over a hundred years ago), was always going to end up the way it did. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:41:56 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There has been a revolving door of organizations over there Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isn't that the job of the Green Berets? I would've thought it was the job of the USMC. Amphibious stuff is kind of their deal. Along with USN and USAF to keep the missiles and airborne troops away. But SEALs sounds better in the press, so... Far more deterring would be announcing that we're selling Taiwan F-35s, as well as finally giving them the rest of the stuff they've already paid for. And if we're not also going to sell them Aegis Ashore, then having US personnel stationed in Taiwan and using it would be a gigantic deterrent. Are we serious about ensuring Taiwan's integrity versus China, or not? We're running into the limits of the intentional ambiguity strategy, and instead giving the impression that we might run when hit. There has been a revolving door of organizations over there Like State, then some liaison officers from DoD, then State again? Or actual US basing, home-porting significant US assets? Liaison officers can (and have) get killed all of the time. Various DoD/DoJ officers in Latin America, Ambassadors throughout the 70s, along with Stevens. Very tragic, lots of medals, but ultimately no one really does anything. We didn't kill everyone and declare war on: Libya, El Salvador, Mexico, or Syria. Sinking a US ship (the Maine, but see USS Cole and USS Stark too as a counterpoint) or leveling a base with a battalion + of troops (like we have along the Korean DMZ), that's different. One is a much greater show of resolve and commitment than the other. Assuming the US under a Biden or Harris Administration is still capable of responding appropriately. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 9:44:29 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering the Taliban was, if not a creation of the ISI, then at least asshole buddies (in many senses of that phrase), then winning in Afghanistan would have required action against Pakistan too. At least in KP. Which the Bush Administration wasn't willing to do, and the Obama Administration was only interested in so much as they could have a photo op from it. (And very likely asked permission ahead of time.) 20 year occupation, unless we were going to colonize them, and still have to do punitive raids against sullen hillmen (as Churchill described them, over a hundred years ago), was always going to end up the way it did. One thing Obama did, that Bush didn’t do, was stop asking permission or paying off Pakistan to do missions into Pakistan. Bush was a real pussy when it came to Pakistan. This was something I was surprised to learn. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 10:04:04 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like State, then some liaison officers from DoD, then State again? Or actual US basing, home-porting significant US assets? Liaison officers can (and have) get killed all of the time. Various DoD/DoJ officers in Latin America, Ambassadors throughout the 70s, along with Stevens. Very tragic, lots of medals, but ultimately no one really does anything. We didn't kill everyone and declare war on: Libya, El Salvador, Mexico, or Syria. Sinking a US ship (the Maine, but see USS Cole and USS Stark too as a counterpoint) or leveling a base with a battalion + of troops (like we have along the Korean DMZ), that's different. One is a much greater show of resolve and commitment than the other. Assuming the US under a Biden or Harris Administration is still capable of responding appropriately. There are several open source articles out there about the various forces that have been there, whether there more organizations than have been acknowledged? Who knows? US Marine Raiders Arrive in Taiwan to Train Taiwanese Marines US Army Special Forces Train Taiwan Troops Near China's Coast |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 10:14:14 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One thing Obama did, that Bush didn’t do, was stop asking permission or paying off Pakistan to do missions into Pakistan. Bush was a real pussy when it came to Pakistan. This was something I was surprised to learn. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Considering the Taliban was, if not a creation of the ISI, then at least asshole buddies (in many senses of that phrase), then winning in Afghanistan would have required action against Pakistan too. At least in KP. Which the Bush Administration wasn't willing to do, and the Obama Administration was only interested in so much as they could have a photo op from it. (And very likely asked permission ahead of time.) 20 year occupation, unless we were going to colonize them, and still have to do punitive raids against sullen hillmen (as Churchill described them, over a hundred years ago), was always going to end up the way it did. One thing Obama did, that Bush didn’t do, was stop asking permission or paying off Pakistan to do missions into Pakistan. Bush was a real pussy when it came to Pakistan. This was something I was surprised to learn. I'm surprised too. Besides Neptune Spear, which was what I was referring to in my earlier post, what operations within Pakistan sovereign territory (like the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa---fuck, that's hard to spell) was the United States overtly conducting? |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 11:04:08 AM EST
[#40]
Aren't those the guys who got chased off a mountain by guys in nightgowns wearing flip flops?
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Posted: 9/12/2024 11:23:33 AM EST
[#41]
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Posted: 9/12/2024 11:35:24 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Taiwan: OMG! WE ARE GONNA GET INVADED. Also Taiwain: OMG, ALL GUNS ARE ILLEGAL! Doesn't matter if we are going to get invaded. Imagine if Taiwan had a 2A. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 11:40:43 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you kidding? It’s China's wettest dream to have KumHolla in office when they make their move, but if Trump wins my money says that they’re gonna go for it on Thanksgiving when we’re all distracted and long before Trump gets inaugurated I think there is only certain times of the year the weather and tides are optimal for beach landings in Taiwan. Is Thanksgiving one of those times? |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 11:45:46 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would be the Brown and Black Shoe Navy’s job then… not the Seals. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Help train folks to make sure the transport ships never make the voyage intact? That would be the Brown and Black Shoe Navy’s job then… not the Seals. Maybe, maybe not. 
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Posted: 9/12/2024 11:50:36 AM EST
[#45]
I thought one of the US admirals denied that this was true.
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Posted: 9/12/2024 12:03:27 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that the job of the Green Berets? I imagine they're training them to run down CCP Simps like PIFWC's in the Balkans  |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 12:07:37 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At what point in time did OPSEC and INFOSEC get tossed out? When its done on purpose as part of a psyop. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 12:08:28 PM EST
[#48]
What if chinas goal is just for us to expend resources for an attack that would never come?
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Posted: 9/12/2024 1:25:34 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't have the time demographically. Between emerging life extension technologies and automation making a human work force less relevant, it's not a certainty. Besides, I'd rather deal with the problem of having too many senior citizens than hordes of 3rd worlders being allowed in to help lower the average age. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 2:26:30 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if chinas goal is just for us to expend resources for an attack that would never come? training and build up is seldom wasted effort |
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