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Link Posted: 7/23/2017 8:35:14 PM EDT
[#1]
I want to see a multi projectile launch. Like a railshotgun
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 8:46:03 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:


20 second flight time for a target at 20 miles. Targeting will be easy, relatively.
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Faster than that, at least with the smaller scale one.  ~9.2 seconds to 23 miles.
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 8:50:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Now I really want to know what they are up to with the Shiva Star.  Back in the day it was a testbed for an orbital plasma cannon.  That kinda got spun off into the MARAUDER project with the Shiva Star not working at orbital distances, and eventually getting used in fusion research.

Marauder kinda went off the map in the mid 90's as a coaxial plasma railgun project after getting classified.  They wanted to use a railgun to throw 1-2mg of plasma and have it turn into a 1m toroid out of the barrel.  
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 9:07:43 PM EDT
[#4]
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Potentially stupid question. Why is there a cloud of smoke after it fires when it isn't burning propellent?
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plasma
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 9:10:14 PM EDT
[#5]
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Yes, for every action, there is an equal one opposite reaction.  Projectile pushes back against the rails.
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don't you mean the rail gun pushes itself away from the projectile?
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 9:44:35 PM EDT
[#6]
The return of the pocket battleship this time with nuclear power plants isn't a dream anymore. The rail gun make a strong case for battle cruiser and pocket battleships.
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 10:04:00 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Faster than that, at least with the smaller scale one.  ~9.2 seconds to 23 miles.
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Quoted:


20 second flight time for a target at 20 miles. Targeting will be easy, relatively.
Faster than that, at least with the smaller scale one.  ~9.2 seconds to 23 miles.
In a vacuum where it retains muzzle velocity for its flight, maybe. Real world includes drag deceleration.
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 10:21:23 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Why is there smoke?  Like from gunpowder??

Railguns don't use chemical propellant they use magnets so???
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Steam/water vapor? Compressing that much air that fast has to produce some water vapor and with the speed it's traveling maybe steam?


You can see this on the rear wing of F1 cars the compression of the air from the aerodynamics causes water vapor.

Don't really know but seems plausible to me.
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 10:40:22 PM EDT
[#9]
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Incredibly effective. The KE is astronomical. Years ago they were talking about guided munitions with a possible 200 mile range in bigger guns.

Naval bombardment of inland cities from international waters with cheap munitions. America!
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But what kind of real damage are we talking about with a 7lb solid projectile? It will penetrate but just punch a hole through something? Says it hits like a 1000lb bomb but a 1000lb bomb has HE and a blast effect and causes a fire, etc. what is the effect that a steel slug have on say a house or bunker? It may make a hole but if you are 5ft away from the hit point will it zip straight through or actually cause mass damage?
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 10:55:12 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
But what kind of real damage are we talking about with a 7lb solid projectile? It will penetrate but just punch a hole through something? Says it hits like a 1000lb bomb but a 1000lb bomb has HE and a blast effect and causes a fire, etc. what is the effect that a steel slug have on say a house or bunker? It may make a hole but if you are 5ft away from the hit point will it zip straight through or actually cause mass damage?
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Incredibly effective. The KE is astronomical. Years ago they were talking about guided munitions with a possible 200 mile range in bigger guns.

Naval bombardment of inland cities from international waters with cheap munitions. America!
But what kind of real damage are we talking about with a 7lb solid projectile? It will penetrate but just punch a hole through something? Says it hits like a 1000lb bomb but a 1000lb bomb has HE and a blast effect and causes a fire, etc. what is the effect that a steel slug have on say a house or bunker? It may make a hole but if you are 5ft away from the hit point will it zip straight through or actually cause mass damage?
Not at all an icepick. Cool things happen with kinetic weapons and hypersonic speeds. Basically when the projectile energy exceeds the bond energy of the object it hits, it explodes. I believe Smarter Every Day had a video on the phenomenon.

Eta: Mind you I'm not talking about a nuclear explosion, breaking atomic bonds, or pyrotechnic conflagration.
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 11:45:30 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
For those of y'all doubting how much force this guy hits with, check out NAVSEA's other test videos

Behold the power of v2 and friction!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU_253_TkSM
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For those of y'all doubting how much force this guy hits with, check out NAVSEA's other test videos

Behold the power of v2 and friction!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU_253_TkSM
That contraption with the multiple sheets of steel set at stand off distances is called a Whipple Shield.  Originally a development to prevent hypervelocity micro-meteoroids from destroying satellites and stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipple_shield
The Whipple shield or Whipple bumper, invented by Fred Whipple,[1] is a type of hypervelocity impact shield used to protect manned and unmanned spacecraft from collisions with micrometeoroids and orbital debris whose velocities generally range between 3 and 18 kilometres per second (1.9 and 11.2 mi/s).

In contrast to monolithic shielding of early spacecraft, Whipple shields consist of a relatively thin outer bumper spaced some distance from the main spacecraft wall. The bumper is not expected to stop the incoming particle or even remove much of its energy, but to break up and disperse it, dividing the original particle energy among many fragments that fan out between bumper and wall.
...
..
There are over 100 shield configurations on the International Space Station alone,[7] with higher-risk areas having better shielding.
NASA PDF on the subject:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100006702.pdf
Link Posted: 7/24/2017 12:11:06 AM EDT
[#12]
They're planning on upping the power and increasing rate of fire to 10 rounds per minute.  The idea is to get it installed on the 3 DDG-1000 Zumwalt-class destroyers. They're also adapting the round to use in 5" deck guns, including miniaturization of electronics which could mean guidance systems.


https://www.defensetech.org/2017/07/21/navys-railgun-will-get-faster-powerful-summer/

Navy plans have called for installing the railgun on the Navy’s three DDG-1000 Zumwalt-class destroyers, but it’s not clear when that will happen.
...
This summer and into next year, work will focus on increasing the power with which projectiles are fired to the target of 32 megajoules, and increasing what’s known as the rep rate to 10 shots per minute, or one every six seconds, said Dr. Tom Beutner, head of Naval Air Warfare and Weapons for ONR.

At 32 megajoules, the gun will have a range of about 110 nautical miles, Beutner told reporters at ONR’s Science and Technology Expo in Washington, D.C., on Thursday.

....
The system still has crucial issues that need to be resolved. The system sustains significant wear-and-tear when it’s fired because of the power behind the projectile, leading to worries that the gun will break down too fast. Beutner said that parts of the system are being developed for longevity.
...
“They’ve extended the launcher core life from tens of shots’ core life when program started to something that’s now been fired over 400 times and … we anticipate barrels will be able to do over 1,000 shots,” he said.
...
The system requires massive amounts of it — so much that only the massive Zumwalt-class ships can independently sustain the demand. Beutner noted that the challenge applied to other weapons as well: when the Navy tested its new Laser Weapons System aboard the amphibious transport ship Ponce this month, testers took their own power sources with them to simplify the challenge.
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http://scout.com/military/warrior/Article/Navy-to-Fire-Rail-Gun-Hypervelocity-Projectile-From-5-inch-Guns-103103278
...“The program is leveraging commercial electronics miniaturization and computational performance increases to develop a common guided projectile for use in current 5 inch guns and future high velocity gun systems.  The HVP effort will seek to increase range and accuracy of the 5-Inch Gun Weapon System in support of multiple mission areas,” Navy spokeswoman Lt. Lauren Chatmas told Scout Warrior.

Developed initially for an Electromagnetic Rail Gun next-generation weapon, The Hyper Velocity Projectile, or HVP, can travel at speeds up to 2,000 meters per second when fired from a Rail Gun, a speed which is about three times that of most existing weapons.....
...
The rate of fire is 10-rounds per minute. Also, due to its ability to reach speeds of up to 5,600 miles per hour, the hypervelocity projectile is engineered as a kinetic energy warhead, meaning no explosives are necessary.

Development of the HVP projectile can take place apart from its use in an actual Rail Gun, as is the case with efforts to adapt it to Navy 5-inch guns.
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Link Posted: 7/24/2017 12:27:59 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
Not at all an icepick. Cool things happen with kinetic weapons and hypersonic speeds. Basically when the projectile energy exceeds the bond energy of the object it hits, it explodes. I believe Smarter Every Day had a video on the phenomenon.

Eta: Mind you I'm not talking about a nuclear explosion, breaking atomic bonds, or pyrotechnic conflagration.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Incredibly effective. The KE is astronomical. Years ago they were talking about guided munitions with a possible 200 mile range in bigger guns.

Naval bombardment of inland cities from international waters with cheap munitions. America!
But what kind of real damage are we talking about with a 7lb solid projectile? It will penetrate but just punch a hole through something? Says it hits like a 1000lb bomb but a 1000lb bomb has HE and a blast effect and causes a fire, etc. what is the effect that a steel slug have on say a house or bunker? It may make a hole but if you are 5ft away from the hit point will it zip straight through or actually cause mass damage?
Not at all an icepick. Cool things happen with kinetic weapons and hypersonic speeds. Basically when the projectile energy exceeds the bond energy of the object it hits, it explodes. I believe Smarter Every Day had a video on the phenomenon.

Eta: Mind you I'm not talking about a nuclear explosion, breaking atomic bonds, or pyrotechnic conflagration.
Ok, I found some numbers and did a rough calculation of about 30lbs TNT at the muzzle.
https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0301/Navy-railgun-fires-40-lb.-bullets-at-Mach-7-video
Given that I also found a link stating 23lb projectile weight: http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/07/a-look-into-one-of-the-most-powerful-assets-of-the-us-militarys-arsenal-the-navys-electromagnetic-railgun/

Projectile = 40 lbs (~18.14 kg)
Muzzle Velocity = 5600 mph (~2503.4 m/s)

KE=1/2mv^2
KE=1/2*(18.14)*(2503.4)^2 = 56854.46 kJ

now, 1 gram of TNT 4.184 kJ (TNT equivalent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent)

KE= 56854.46 kJ / 4.184 kJ =13588.54 grams of TNT
  = 13588.54 g /453.59237 g/lb
.. =29.96 lb of TNT


A 23lb projectile would be 17.22 lb of TNT

At the muzzle, at the reported 5600 mph velocity.  This will decrease as the range increases do to velocity loss from aerodynamic drag. I did not look for a ballistic coefficient for this either. Just wanted to crunch some numbers as an academic exercise.


From here https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/07/ga-3-megajoule-railgun-firing-and-building-new-10-megajoule-railgun-in-2018.html
BAE Systems has a competing railgun. A 32 Megajoule prototype was delivered by BAE Systems. BAE’s railgun can shoot up to 220 miles in range, around 10 times the distance capable of standard ship mounted guns with rounds landing more swiftly and with little or no warning compared to a volley of Tomahawk cruise missiles.

BAE is working to increasing the firing rate of their railgun and to build a barrel that can last for 1000 shots or more.
Link Posted: 7/24/2017 12:37:24 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Now I really want to know what they are up to with the Shiva Star.  Back in the day it was a testbed for an orbital plasma cannon.  That kinda got spun off into the MARAUDER project with the Shiva Star not working at orbital distances, and eventually getting used in fusion research.

Marauder kinda went off the map in the mid 90's as a coaxial plasma railgun project after getting classified.  They wanted to use a railgun to throw 1-2mg of plasma and have it turn into a 1m toroid out of the barrel.  
View Quote
My gut feeling is they scrapped it once it was found that it worked, to keep from starting an arms race no one could win because it mitigates a LOT of defenses, and because it would eliminate the entire defense industry's relevancy.
Link Posted: 7/24/2017 1:19:24 AM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 7/24/2017 1:42:27 AM EDT
[#16]
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Huh, that's weird. They're showing it shooting down a ballistic missile... like a DF-21.

Link Posted: 7/24/2017 2:25:52 AM EDT
[#17]
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Did I hear right in the video?

Blitzer system to be deployed in 2010.

That makes it old news.

Could have used it on the Fitzgerald. But since it was dead in the water after being being hit by an EMP and struck by a freighter that came back to try to finish the job.

Oh wait. Were not suppose to know that.

Never mind.
Link Posted: 7/24/2017 2:45:48 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:


Steam/water vapor? Compressing that much air that fast has to produce some water vapor and with the speed it's traveling maybe steam?


You can see this on the rear wing of F1 cars the compression of the air from the aerodynamics causes water vapor.

Don't really know but seems plausible to me.
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Plasma plus the breaking of molecular bonds of water molecules in the air and burning the hydrogen off.
Link Posted: 7/24/2017 3:13:46 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
In a vacuum where it retains muzzle velocity for its flight, maybe. Real world includes drag deceleration.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


20 second flight time for a target at 20 miles. Targeting will be easy, relatively.
Faster than that, at least with the smaller scale one.  ~9.2 seconds to 23 miles.
In a vacuum where it retains muzzle velocity for its flight, maybe. Real world includes drag deceleration.
*facepalm*  Wow, I went full retard on that one.    Sad thing is I knew better and didn't even think about that when I did the math. 
Link Posted: 7/24/2017 3:15:56 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
My gut feeling is they scrapped it once it was found that it worked, to keep from starting an arms race no one could win because it mitigates a LOT of defenses, and because it would eliminate the entire defense industry's relevancy.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Now I really want to know what they are up to with the Shiva Star.  Back in the day it was a testbed for an orbital plasma cannon.  That kinda got spun off into the MARAUDER project with the Shiva Star not working at orbital distances, and eventually getting used in fusion research.

Marauder kinda went off the map in the mid 90's as a coaxial plasma railgun project after getting classified.  They wanted to use a railgun to throw 1-2mg of plasma and have it turn into a 1m toroid out of the barrel.  
My gut feeling is they scrapped it once it was found that it worked, to keep from starting an arms race no one could win because it mitigates a LOT of defenses, and because it would eliminate the entire defense industry's relevancy.
Entirely possible, but damnit I want a plasma cannon. 

Link Posted: 7/24/2017 5:58:14 AM EDT
[#21]
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In a vacuum where it retains muzzle velocity for its flight, maybe. Real world includes drag deceleration.
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Considering how well AFATDS works for 155mm Howitzers and MLRS, fairly sure Raytheon could come up with a quick software update.
Link Posted: 7/24/2017 8:10:08 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
I want to see a multi projectile launch. Like a railshotgun
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wtf man. keep the portal closed
Link Posted: 7/24/2017 8:38:10 PM EDT
[#23]
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wondering this to. is it a RAP projectile or something?
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Potentially stupid question. Why is there a cloud of smoke after it fires when it isn't burning propellent?
wondering this to. is it a RAP projectile or something?
Condensing metal vapor.
Link Posted: 7/25/2017 12:34:52 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
Not at all an icepick. Cool things happen with kinetic weapons and hypersonic speeds. Basically when the projectile energy exceeds the bond energy of the object it hits, it explodes. I believe Smarter Every Day had a video on the phenomenon.

Eta: Mind you I'm not talking about a nuclear explosion, breaking atomic bonds, or pyrotechnic conflagration.
View Quote
The military's own videos prove you wrong.  Concrete walls?  It zips through like they aren't there leaving a nice neat hole.  Armor plating?  There are some spall/kinetic effects but it still is just zipping through.  I get that this thing does have some utility, especially in aerial defense and in anti-ship and anti-vehicle applications, but I don't see anything that suggests that a 7lb penetrator will do anywhere near the same damage a tomahawk or a JDAM will.
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