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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:32:44 PM EDT
My 16 year old started digging a hole a few years ago in the backyard woods. I told him every few months to fill it back in but it never happened. So I told him a week ago that we may as well make it a foxhole.
1) Any advice on design? I’ve searched the internet and there are a lot of designs out there. 2) Any advice on what to use for sandbags? We have plenty of fill for them coming out of the hole. Yes, he’s using sandals to dig but it’s actually going well. There is a stream that separates me from my neighbor’s property. It’s all woods around the hole.    Update: 08/30/2022 I got the sand bags and we’ve started filling them. The soil is a silt/clay mix with some organic matter given its location. The plan is to fill the 100 sandbags since that soil needs to be cleaned up from around the hole as i don’t want to create a hazard from the soil collapsing. I haven’t decided on the final design, but the sandbags will be part of it so may as well get them filled up.   We will definitely need some stairs to get into the hole more easily. I was going to dig some stairs out and then use some 2X10’s cut to length over top of the earthen stairs? I was going to cut them out on the side that faces my house. How wide would you make the staircase? Stairs here:  |
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:35:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Don't forget the grenade sump.
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:37:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Get that boy a real shovel to make the digging easier.
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:37:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Needs grenade sumps and overhead concealment (tarp or logs). You can dig steps, shelves and seats into the side depending on the soil.
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:38:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Cool, my dad shut down me and my friend when we were like 12. Had it laid out. 4x6. And we were going to have overhead cover.
pick up an army manual or google it and build it to one of the pencil pictures in there. don't forget the grenade sump. |
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:38:32 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:39:27 PM EDT
[#6]
somebody link the FM.
grenade sump overhead cover make sure its deep enough to stand in left and right firing limit sector markers visible contact w interlockn homies position range card all the sandbags |
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:46:24 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:47:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Find some old pallets and break them apart for cribbing and to shore up the sides. Maybe some barbed wire with tin can perimeter alarms.
Seriously though, don’t let him get so deep it becomes a collapse hazard. People have died from that. You could research WWI trench construction (of both sides) and incorporate some features. Make it a living history experience. Read “All Quiet On The Western Front” together. |
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:47:26 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:49:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: somebody link the FM. grenade sump overhead cover make sure its deep enough to stand in left and right firing limit sector markers visible contact w interlockn homies position range card all the sandbags FM 5-15 Field fortifications Buried in my foot locker with all the other docs from PNOC and correspondence course materials https://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd-us-archive/FM5-15%2868%29.pdf And get some proper shoes on that troop before he loses a toe |
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Posted: 8/8/2022 10:51:52 PM EDT
[#11]
OST
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:23:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget the grenade sump. I saw that on the WikiHow! Thank you! |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:24:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get that boy a real shovel to make the digging easier. Yeah, he’s using a spade. I’ll pick up a shovel for him. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:27:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Armpit deep, 2 rifles wide, 1rifle long.
Camouflage from all directions |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:30:25 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryI am reading every post carefully even if I don’t quote and comment on them. Thank you. I do have a semi-auto PKM and semi-auto RPD so it may end up as a crew-served position! |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:38:40 AM EDT
[#16]
Holy shit. I still rememeber from OSUT.
Two M-16s ;ong. Two kelvars wide. Height is to the armpits of the shortest man. Grenade sumps on each end. Minimum 18" of overhead cover. Aiming stakes for left and right limits. A range card if time allows. I've only dug one real one. Anytime after was a hasty one or dug by engineers and completed by me. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 7:49:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Moar like a mortar pit now.
Our foxholes were rectangular and had a grenade sump. The better ones had a wood cover that could stop wood shivers from explosions among trees. Russian (WW II) holes were round and for only one person. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 8:00:09 AM EDT
[#18]
For a real "fox hole" effect:
Work in clothes made for work. Work on it all day and into the night. Pull security all night long with battle buddy. Next morning tear down/fill in position and road march minimum of 12 miles. Then you will get some real experience. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 8:02:38 AM EDT
[#19]
If it’s on public property just make sure some karens don’t find it and think you’re
 building militia structures. Happened recently in MI.
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:10:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Needs parachute flares
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:15:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Most importantly when you fill the hole back in make sure you bury all your MRE trash and unused blanks. Future archeologists thank you.
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:31:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Needs parachute flares And razor wire And sand bags Trip flares Seismic intrusion sensors Flir Nods Dang, this kids project rabbit hole is gonna get expensive. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:31:36 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most importantly when you fill the hole back in make sure you bury all your MRE trash and unused blanks. Future archeologists thank you. Lol, this exactly. One day after the fall and rebuild of mankind the worn remnants of the Pyramids will be rediscovered in Egypt. But across the Sahara desert scientist will uncover what appears to be some sort of ritualistic site involving tan bags and brown spoons left by one exhausted Corporal. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:46:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most importantly when you fill the hole back in make sure you bury all your MRE trash and unused blanks. Future archeologists thank you. Meh... go big or go home.  https://a.co/d/3J09gp3 If you really want to mess with the future, dress it up. https://www.ebay.com/itm/265811380281 |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:48:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get that boy a real shovel to make the digging easier. No, he needs to learn how to work. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 9:58:40 AM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 8/9/2022 10:01:09 AM EDT
[#27]
https://www.armystudyguide.com/content/SMCT_CTT_Tasks/Skill_Level_1/0713265703-sl1-construct-.shtml
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Posted: 8/9/2022 10:02:37 AM EDT
[#28]
Nice work OP, great father/son time regardless.
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Posted: 8/9/2022 10:04:25 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 8/9/2022 10:18:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Link to 100 sandbags at Amazon for $50. I think you can find them cheaper elsewhere. When I dug fighting holes, I made sure it was deep enough to get a good standing rifle position. Dont forget to slant the bottom and dig trenches for grenades!! haha.
Really looks like a fun project with your son. Pics when complete. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PXYQX15/ref=twister_B0B5FJQX82?_encoding=UTF8&th=1 |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 10:20:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Is he for hire?
My back won’t let me dig anymore. Very cool. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 11:41:14 AM EDT
[#32]
OP, you're telling us that you have no bodies to put in there?
For shame, for shame. 
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Posted: 8/9/2022 12:52:34 PM EDT
[#33]
It's been over 40 years since I had to dig a standard foxhole.
Seems like they are two bayonets wide and two rifles long. Dirt piled in front and on either side (sides more to the front and angled) so you could dig the overhead cover spots after you were finished with the digging/set up of the main hole. Armpit deep. Grenade sump in the middle but I don't remember if it was in the front or the back. I know the dirt is supposed to be sloped down from either side towards the middle and the sump should be about the diameter of the entrenching tool. Has to be if that's what you use to dig it with. Never saw post hole diggers in the field but they would have worked great for digging that grenade sump. The sump and angled floor will also help (some, if it doesn't rain too much) get some of the rain water out of the way. Spent a miserable night in a foxhole at Ft. Polk one winter night with the water level just below the tops of the rubber boots we put on over our combat boots. If you moved around too fast you'd push water over the tops of your boots or you buddy's boots and someone wasn't going to be too happy. Damn that was a cold wet night. Not cold enough to snow, just cold enough to make you remember it. The overhead cover spots are an extension on either side. Same width as the foxhole. Front and back dug down/out from the hole enough to set your wood pieces in and then cover up. Then move the dirt for the sides back so it's mostly on the overhead cover "roof." The crew served (for and M60 anyway) is way different and about twice as much work. L shaped with the "table" for the M60 on the tripod where the legs of the crew served foxhole meet. Dirt parapet is different as well as the M60 has to be able to cover a wider field of fire than either rifleman in the standard foxhole. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 1:24:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Looks like a decent mortar pit. Punch out about 100m and set up an LP/OP over watching avenues of approach.
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Posted: 8/9/2022 5:57:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Find some old pallets and break them apart for cribbing and to shore up the sides. Maybe some barbed wire with tin can perimeter alarms. Seriously though, don’t let him get so deep it becomes a collapse hazard. People have died from that. You could research WWI trench construction (of both sides) and incorporate some features. Make it a living history experience. Read “All Quiet On The Western Front” together. @Makarov We watched the movie recently!
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:01:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Those fields of fire are going to need some work as well
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:03:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And razor wire And sand bags Trip flares Seismic intrusion sensors Flir Nods Dang, this kids project rabbit hole is gonna get expensive. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Needs parachute flares And razor wire And sand bags Trip flares Seismic intrusion sensors Flir Nods Dang, this kids project rabbit hole is gonna get expensive. Needs parachute flares I have some used grenade fuze heads that I can put #209 primers in and rig up And razor wire Got some + barbed wire And sand bags Ordering some now Trip flares Seismic intrusion sensors Flir I have a Nox35 Nods PVS-14 Communication will be UV-5R and Yaesu FT-65R. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:05:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Needs parachute flares No claymore love? 'Cause I love me some claymores. ETA: For safety and maximum annoyance, you could use these...Spring loaded glitter bombs |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:06:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Link to 100 sandbags at Amazon for $50. I think you can find them cheaper elsewhere. When I dug fighting holes, I made sure it was deep enough to get a good standing rifle position. Dont forget to slant the bottom and dig trenches for grenades!! haha. Really looks like a fun project with your son. Pics when complete. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PXYQX15/ref=twister_B0B5FJQX82?_encoding=UTF8&th=1 I will keep the thread updated! |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:14:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Find some old pallets and break them apart for cribbing and to shore up the sides. Maybe some barbed wire with tin can perimeter alarms. Seriously though, don't let him get so deep it becomes a collapse hazard. People have died from that. You could research WWI trench construction (of both sides) and incorporate some features. Make it a living history experience. Read "All Quiet On The Western Front" together. i've gotten into some bad holes in the past. wouldn't do it again. https://www.msha.gov/news-media/announcements/2017/08/04/plant-trench |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:20:46 PM EDT
[#41]
OST
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:27:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Interesting.
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:33:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's been over 40 years since I had to dig a standard foxhole. Seems like they are two bayonets wide and two rifles long. Dirt piled in front and on either side (sides more to the front and angled) so you could dig the overhead cover spots after you were finished with the digging/set up of the main hole. Armpit deep. Grenade sump in the middle but I don't remember if it was in the front or the back. I know the dirt is supposed to be sloped down from either side towards the middle and the sump should be about the diameter of the entrenching tool. Has to be if that's what you use to dig it with. Never saw post hole diggers in the field but they would have worked great for digging that grenade sump. The sump and angled floor will also help (some, if it doesn't rain too much) get some of the rain water out of the way. Spent a miserable night in a foxhole at Ft. Polk one winter night with the water level just below the tops of the rubber boots we put on over our combat boots. If you moved around too fast you'd push water over the tops of your boots or you buddy's boots and someone wasn't going to be too happy. Damn that was a cold wet night. Not cold enough to snow, just cold enough to make you remember it. The overhead cover spots are an extension on either side. Same width as the foxhole. Front and back dug down/out from the hole enough to set your wood pieces in and then cover up. Then move the dirt for the sides back so it's mostly on the overhead cover "roof." The crew served (for and M60 anyway) is way different and about twice as much work. L shaped with the "table" for the M60 on the tripod where the legs of the crew served foxhole meet. Dirt parapet is different as well as the M60 has to be able to cover a wider field of fire than either rifleman in the standard foxhole. @M1A4ME 1) Can you link to what the dirt parapet and the crew served look like? ETA: This link posted by another member has an example: https://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd-us-archive/FM5-15%2868%29.pdf 2) So your sump is in the middle not the very side for both water and grenades? |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:43:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Find some old pallets and break them apart for cribbing and to shore up the sides. Maybe some barbed wire with tin can perimeter alarms. Seriously though, don’t let him get so deep it becomes a collapse hazard. People have died from that. You could research WWI trench construction (of both sides) and incorporate some features. Make it a living history experience. Read “All Quiet On The Western Front” together. From the dirt piled up on one side, it looks like the boy's already there. Be careful, OP. Take a look at surrounding drainage as well. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:46:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the dirt piled up on one side, it looks like the boy's already there. Be careful, OP. Take a look at surrounding drainage as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Find some old pallets and break them apart for cribbing and to shore up the sides. Maybe some barbed wire with tin can perimeter alarms. Seriously though, don’t let him get so deep it becomes a collapse hazard. People have died from that. You could research WWI trench construction (of both sides) and incorporate some features. Make it a living history experience. Read “All Quiet On The Western Front” together. From the dirt piled up on one side, it looks like the boy's already there. Be careful, OP. Take a look at surrounding drainage as well. Will do! |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:47:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the dirt piled up on one side, it looks like the boy's already there. Be careful, OP. Take a look at surrounding drainage as well. from the size of the hole, the angle of the dirt, the pile of the dirt, the most he is getting is buried to his mid calf |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:47:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get that boy a real shovel to make the digging easier. Gen X: we did this with spoons. We bent so many mom got pissed. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:48:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget the grenade sump. This exactly and make it deep. |
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:55:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it’s on public property just make sure some karens don’t find it and think you’re building militia structures. Happened recently in MI.@macman37 Yes, all on my property. Although I can’t guarantee any bullets will stay on it.
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Posted: 8/9/2022 6:55:36 PM EDT
[#50]
That hole is already too big for an individual fighting position, but it could shill make a nice MG pit. May as well go for it.
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