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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:20:04 PM EST
[#1]
This thread is giving me a boner.
At the same time Im glad I got the fuck out after reading this thread about the new changes. Is that weird? Ive carried the SAW. Maybe that has something to do with it. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:34:09 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surely 1 in 12 Marines can read? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
4 man squad to 3 man squad? Tech savvy (nerd) Marine? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 4:36:29 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This whole discussion missed the 2 most important changes: -M3 Carl Gustav / "MAAWS" now a squad asset -Each squad gets a Quadcopter for scouting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfVxspzh0Pg This combo - a quadcopter to find the enemy, and a rocket launcher to blow them up - could be transformative if handled correctly. Biggest issue is how many 84mm shells will be carried and how they will be distributed. Also, whether the M3 gunner is expected to also lug around a M27+7mags. A small UAV is outstanding as a concept but you dont need a UAV to direct a rocket launcher. It would be far more useful for directing CAS, or artillery. The squad leader is goign to get overwhelmed figuring out how to proces what the systems guy is saying while he maneuvers three fire teams. Its a great idea at platoon level where the FO or PSG or PL together can work together. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:19:09 PM EST
[#4]
Quoted: It's a fair point. I don't know exactly how much field time he had with it, he and another kid had it for a week or so during SOI. I don't have the first-person experience to speak to the merits of the rifle, so I'm trying to tread lightly in this thread, but my admittedly small sample of current infantry Marines (four) all liked it and wished they had them right now. Might just be the magic of the giggle switch.  I thought MRE's were great when we got them for the first time in 1984... I was 20.... a few years latter... after eating all 12 menu's.... not so much... 
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:37:13 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You say this based upon your direct experience with the M27 or outside opinion/conjecture? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 5:38:14 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After this test of 9,600 M855A1's the M27 had 3 broken bolts and 7 cracked bolt lugs. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/414147/m27_1-544520.JPG If they Army test doesn't do anything for you, here's a USMC one done with Mk262. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/414147/m27_2-544521.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/414147/m27_3-544522.JPG And I've got something special coming......once they comb through the 2,200 pages of data and release it to me. They could have had the IMR/URG, instead they got the M27 lol 
Did I mention that from what's being released regarding the URG testing it's going in excess of 12,600 rounds of M855A1 without breaking any parts. That's worse than I realized. Also, do we know if the M855A1 lot was the super high pressure one? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 6:16:06 PM EST
[#7]
I agree with the move. My bet would be that the 3 man command element gets broken into the other teams most of the time or moves as needed while keeping the other teams in position. I don't think that the IAR is the prefect choice but but I think its the right direction to go. It's not like weapons platoon is getting dropped, you still have access to belt fed's, but the good ones that actually work well.
Drones are going to be a huge force multiplier, and so is a goose. Drones need thermal if not already planned, its not going to be long before they get to the squad level I bet. To make use best use of drones more accurate fire is needed. Every member of the team is automatic rifleman. Every member is also a DM. This is actually not a bad plan. Not prefect either, but Marine Corps marksmanship can make it happen. Accurate suppression > kicking out random rounds at whatthefuckever. I've met ZERO 03's personally that like the 249, I know a lot of Marines, I wasn't 03, but lots of my friends were. It's a pile of shit. I know plenty of Marines that like it, but ZERO 03's. I also have an 11B friend that didn't like it. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 6:46:38 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with the move. My bet would be that the 3 man command element gets broken into the other teams most of the time or moves as needed while keeping the other teams in position. I don't think that the IAR is the prefect choice but but I think its the right direction to go. It's not like weapons platoon is getting dropped, you still have access to belt fed's, but the good ones that actually work well. Drones are going to be a huge force multiplier, and so is a goose. Drones need thermal if not already planned, its not going to be long before they get to the squad level I bet. To make use best use of drones more accurate fire is needed. Every member of the team is automatic rifleman. Every member is also a DM. This is actually not a bad plan. Not prefect either, but Marine Corps marksmanship can make it happen. Accurate suppression > kicking out random rounds at whatthefuckever. I've met ZERO 03's personally that like the 249, I know a lot of Marines, I wasn't 03, but lots of my friends were. It's a pile of shit. I know plenty of Marines that like it, but ZERO 03's. I also have an 11B friend that didn't like it. It’s a DM rifle and a SAW at the same time! |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 6:52:38 PM EST
[#9]
I thought the rifle platoon was keeping the M249s, just consolidating them at platoon level and not leaving them at squad level, so the SAWs could be distributed out as teams to the squads as necessary?
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:15:44 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My favorite fallacy is the M27 can fill any role. It’s a DM rifle and a SAW at the same time! |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:22:19 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My favorite fallacy is the M27 can fill any role. It's a DM rifle and a SAW at the same time! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I agree with the move. My bet would be that the 3 man command element gets broken into the other teams most of the time or moves as needed while keeping the other teams in position. I don't think that the IAR is the prefect choice but but I think its the right direction to go. It's not like weapons platoon is getting dropped, you still have access to belt fed's, but the good ones that actually work well. Drones are going to be a huge force multiplier, and so is a goose. Drones need thermal if not already planned, its not going to be long before they get to the squad level I bet. To make use best use of drones more accurate fire is needed. Every member of the team is automatic rifleman. Every member is also a DM. This is actually not a bad plan. Not prefect either, but Marine Corps marksmanship can make it happen. Accurate suppression > kicking out random rounds at whatthefuckever. I've met ZERO 03's personally that like the 249, I know a lot of Marines, I wasn't 03, but lots of my friends were. It's a pile of shit. I know plenty of Marines that like it, but ZERO 03's. I also have an 11B friend that didn't like it. It's a DM rifle and a SAW at the same time!  The M14 was supposed to be the wunder waffe that replaced everything too.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:22:23 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow. That's worse than I realized. Also, do we know if the M855A1 lot was the super high pressure one? 
Same member will tell you the Mk262 test for the M38 was also rigged by the USMC to make it look bad?????? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:31:41 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the rifle platoon was keeping the M249s, just consolidating them at platoon level and not leaving them at squad level, so the SAWs could be distributed out as teams to the squads as necessary? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:34:32 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That test was from 2015, so not super high pressure lot, unless you ask a certain tin foil hat member whowill tell you the M4A1 had the new lots, and the M27 used special extra high pressure lots to purposely make it look bad
Same member will tell you the Mk262 test for the M38 was also rigged by the USMC to make it look bad?????? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:37:04 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The sling is attached to the handguards but still being pulled down over on top of the barrel. Any time you have pressure on the barrel it will screw with harmonics. I've seen a shift even with the barrel just slightly resting on a sandbag. But that's just user error, not a bad design. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:48:34 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My favorite fallacy is the M27 can fill any role. It’s a DM rifle and a SAW at the same time! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I agree with the move. My bet would be that the 3 man command element gets broken into the other teams most of the time or moves as needed while keeping the other teams in position. I don't think that the IAR is the prefect choice but but I think its the right direction to go. It's not like weapons platoon is getting dropped, you still have access to belt fed's, but the good ones that actually work well. Drones are going to be a huge force multiplier, and so is a goose. Drones need thermal if not already planned, its not going to be long before they get to the squad level I bet. To make use best use of drones more accurate fire is needed. Every member of the team is automatic rifleman. Every member is also a DM. This is actually not a bad plan. Not prefect either, but Marine Corps marksmanship can make it happen. Accurate suppression > kicking out random rounds at whatthefuckever. I've met ZERO 03's personally that like the 249, I know a lot of Marines, I wasn't 03, but lots of my friends were. It's a pile of shit. I know plenty of Marines that like it, but ZERO 03's. I also have an 11B friend that didn't like it. It’s a DM rifle and a SAW at the same time! Kharn |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:52:43 PM EST
[#17]
I get that it's a top tier awesome rifle. Please give mine a 3.5x ACOG
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:52:45 PM EST
[#18]
Reduced payroll?
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Posted: 5/15/2018 7:56:42 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the rifle platoon was keeping the M249s, just consolidating them at platoon level and not leaving them at squad level, so the SAWs could be distributed out as teams to the squads as necessary? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:14:08 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there are some (6 if iirc) in each company, and are sent to the platoons or squads as needed. Note by some that means SAWs and not accompanying SAW gunners, so they get handed to a guy who usually carries a rifle. I've found it takes a while to become a good SAW gunner, so there may not be many good SAW gunners left in the Marine Corps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I thought the rifle platoon was keeping the M249s, just consolidating them at platoon level and not leaving them at squad level, so the SAWs could be distributed out as teams to the squads as necessary? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:19:07 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was the plan... until the recent AMHS message went out about M249 divestment. Should be getting rid of them completely very soon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought the rifle platoon was keeping the M249s, just consolidating them at platoon level and not leaving them at squad level, so the SAWs could be distributed out as teams to the squads as necessary? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:28:49 PM EST
[#22]
Harumph.
Para saw plus 1000 rounds is about 43 pounds IIRC. Put this at 13 once we hang enough crap on it plus an increased ammo load out so figure 32-33 pounds. Essentially shared the load ammong the team without losing total amount load out for the team. But fuck that for mout. Light and fast or heavy and ready to unleash an unholy amount of ordnance. Middle seams like a mistake. This would be nice in a fight in Europe's farmlands maybe.  My guess is they're really playing the drone angle. Suppress and send the drone. But that kind of fight happens after you work your ass off for days or months hunting the shitbags into a situation where that becomes viable. Now I'm not sure how that plays out in a traditional war either as that's less "Let's pick the house with the bad guys" and more "please don't explode me before I reach your position." Frack it I'll just be happy in my recliner and not worry about it. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:30:49 PM EST
[#23]
Seema like they are stretching the old scope's lifespan to save money.
Not that the glass doesn't work, but that's the only criticism here I think is valid. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:33:00 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seema like they are stretching the old scope's lifespan to save money. Not that the glass doesn't work, but that's the only criticism here I think is valid. You must have if you think the only valid complaint is the scope. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:34:28 PM EST
[#25]
What? Are there TOO many penis sketches out in the wild?
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:37:21 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was the plan... until the recent AMHS message went out about M249 divestment. Should be getting rid of them completely very soon. 
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:39:35 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was the plan... until the recent AMHS message went out about M249 divestment. Should be getting rid of them completely very soon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought the rifle platoon was keeping the M249s, just consolidating them at platoon level and not leaving them at squad level, so the SAWs could be distributed out as teams to the squads as necessary? Good work was done to replace the SAW, though everyone still drops lots of disinfo on it, but its a whole separate question from this new squad configuration, which I've seen no studies or work ups on. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:41:09 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The systems operator will be the most tech-capable Marine in the formation, Neller said. Rather than create a new Military Occupational Specialty, the systems operator will come from the infantry ranks. 
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:43:42 PM EST
[#29]
Anyone in the know see army infantry going in these directions?
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:45:45 PM EST
[#30]
This is what I think is going on. The Marine Corps wants piston, they want suppressed, they don't want a long ass gun. What they want doesn't exist yet, but before they can justify spending money on testing and bullshit, they first have to get their foot in the door with piston and suppressors.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:47:03 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone in the know see army infantry going in these directions?
Airforce is following SOCOM and adopting the IMR-BLUE which is basically the URG-I SOCOM is moving to. Hopefully the Army will ditch their current retarded 100k psi, polymer 6.8 electro magnetic trigger gun and do what SOCOM and the USAF are doing. @blacktide |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:48:14 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what I think is going on. The Marine Corps wants piston, they want suppressed, they don't want a long ass gun. What they want doesn't exist yet, but before they can justify spending money on testing and bullshit, they first have to get their foot in the door with piston and suppressors. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:51:40 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Army is going in this direction right now
https://i.imgur.com/NmHPsYp.png Airforce is following SOCOM and adopting the IMR-BLUE which is basically the URG-I SOCOM is moving to. Hopefully the Army will ditch their current retarded 100k psi, polymer 6.8 electro magnetic trigger gun and do what SOCOM and the USAF are doing. @blacktide |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:52:47 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Army is going in this direction right now
https://i.imgur.com/NmHPsYp.png Airforce is following SOCOM and adopting the IMR-BLUE which is basically the URG-I SOCOM is moving to. Hopefully the Army will ditch their current retarded 100k psi, polymer 6.8 electro magnetic trigger gun and do what SOCOM and the USAF are doing. @blacktide |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 8:53:23 PM EST
[#35]
This whole thing deserves a Congressional Investigation and possibly a criminal investigation. No one can logically explain the whole drive back to 1970s doctrine with an overpriced gun that does not meet the requirements nor is as durable as some of the guns that it is replacing. Then the attempt to deploy the rifle as a replacement for the M4 on the sly.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:19:17 PM EST
[#36]
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:19:29 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the DMR M38? Yes, left over off the shelf stock from the MK-12 SPR. Saving tax money. Because it doesn't. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:20:41 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the M320 40mm grenade launcher used by the grenadier is made by Heckler und Koch as well. They make good stuff. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:23:03 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who would win? http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/m27_1-630x320.jpeg The $3000 Teutonic symbol of piston-driven excellence. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/IMG_9090-660x371.jpg One pointy boi. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:26:50 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Marine in that picture has no idea what the fuck he is doing.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:27:44 PM EST
[#41]
Where the hell is that Gunner?
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:30:15 PM EST
[#42]
I thought they didnt take pmags. Glad i was misinformed.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:31:20 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought they didnt take pmags. Glad i was misinformed. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:33:27 PM EST
[#44]
So why do you guys hate the M320?
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:35:02 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So why do you guys hate the M320? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:35:16 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that will be great when we fire up the time machine and go to Helmand 10 years ago! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This whole discussion missed the 2 most important changes: -M3 Carl Gustav / "MAAWS" now a squad asset -Each squad gets a Quadcopter for scouting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfVxspzh0Pg This combo - a quadcopter to find the enemy, and a rocket launcher to blow them up - could be transformative if handled correctly. Biggest issue is how many 84mm shells will be carried and how they will be distributed. Also, whether the M3 gunner is expected to also lug around a M27+7mags. What's that? The army says:  Attached FileBunch of fucking pogues. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:35:58 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does this mean I have to get rid of all my DI rifles? Is the piston system now the new norm? How does this fit in with the current acceptable civilian use Gucci weapons systems? Sincerely, Confused and scared. https://www.theepochtimes.com/assets/uploads/2013/04/140389480-700x420.jpg |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:39:48 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever thinks that replacing the 203 with the 320 was a good idea, for either branch, is fucking retarded. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:40:43 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we will never fight in jungle or forests again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: All that will be great when we fire up the time machine and go to Helmand 10 years ago! |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 9:44:27 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My entire inventory is no longer en Vogue. This means the USMC will be the lone man out in using Piston. |
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