https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/05/one-in-five-electric-car-owners-in-california-switched-back-to-gas-powered/

   In a study published in the journal Nature Energy by the University of California Davis, researchers Scott Hardman and Gil Tal surveyed Californians who purchased an electric vehicle between 2012 and 2018 and found roughly one in five switched back to owning gas-powered cars.

   Why?

   Most indicated they found charging the batteries was a pain. Business Insider published a story on the study that said of those who switched to gas, more than 70 percent lacked access to Level 2 charging at home, and slightly fewer lacked Level 2 connections at their workplace.

While ready access to the proper type of charging station was important, other economic factors also played a role.

   …Those who gave up on their EVs lived in smaller households so they had fewer vehicles. They were also younger, had smaller earnings, rented more, were less likely to live in a single-family standalone house, and were less likely to be male.

   What were their reasons? Charging was the biggest thorn. Specifically, the lack of a 240-Volt power outlet at home. “We know that home charging is most influential charging location in the decision to buy an EV,” says Hardman. “It is the most frequently used, the cheapest, the most convenient, and increases odds of continuing PEV ownership.”
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   “In 10 to 15 years when there are large numbers coming to the end of their life, it’s going to be very important that we have a recycling industry,” he points out.

   While most EV components are much the same as those of conventional cars, the big difference is the battery. While traditional lead-acid batteries are widely recycled, the same can’t be said for the lithium-ion versions used in electric cars.

   EV batteries are larger and heavier than those in regular cars and are made up of several hundred individual lithium-ion cells, all of which need dismantling. They contain hazardous materials, and have an inconvenient tendency to explode if disassembled incorrectly.

   “Currently, globally, it’s very hard to get detailed figures for what percentage of lithium-ion batteries are recycled, but the value everyone quotes is about 5%,” says Dr Anderson. “In some parts of the world it’s considerably less.”

No detectable bias in THAT article, none WHATSOEVER.

Gas only.

Lithium mining is cancer to the planet.

It is all a liberal feel good failure to achieve the stated goal.

What do people do in the city where there is only street parking?  You can't run a cord across the sidewalk

Public charging stations are not plentiful and are sparsely laid out.  That, combined with the relatively long charging time, makes it impractical to stop by on the way to work to "fill up".

We really need 5 minute charging times to make these vehicles sell.  They don't have to fully charge in 5 minutes, but at least give me 50 miles of range in that time.

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^^ Yep, that's (one of) the big Achilles heel of electric cars -- PARKING infrastructure.  Don't get me wrong, the technology is great -- I love the instantaneous torque.  But the parking infrastructure is a massive dagger in the heart of widespread EV adoption in the US, and you can't fix the antiquated parking limitations in America's city areas quickly.

I have said this before -- one of the biggest lies is that EVs work great for people in cities.   The reality is that EVs do not work with the current urban parking situation and that applies to the vast majority of people in the United States.   Until the technology makes charging as fast as gassing up a ICE vehicle, it won't work.

Consider that the last US Census noted that close to 70% of the United States population was in an urban area.  This means urban parking is a problem for a great majority of Americans.

Say you're lower class.  You live in a high-rise apartment or rowhome in a poor area.  Your only parking is on the street.  

Middle class?  You live in a high-rise apartment or rowhome in a decent area.  No free parking here either, so you either park on the street or shell out hundreds of dollars to park in shared indoor parking.  In my area of downtown Philadelphia, shared indoor parking is $225/mo at minimum, and very few have any charging stations at all.   The one that has a charging station near me is not free.  

Upper class?  You live in a high-rise condo/apartment in a very good area.  OK, now you have a real chance of having a charger in your (shared) indoor garage.  You have a reserved spot but you may not have a charger in every spot.  But how many people fall into the upper class?  Very few ... and that means very few people have access to proper charging (due to parking, not electrical infrastructure).

Now that's just where you live.  What about where you work?  In ALL cases, chances are you can't charge at work.  Office buildings in the big cities often do not offer ANY parking, even if you want to pay for it!  Maybe you're lucky and your office (if you work in an office) has an indoor parking lot where you can buy a monthly pass.  The reality is that you're stuck finding street parking or using a commercial lot -- which puts you back in the situation of no chargers.

You want to put chargers on the street for public use?  You think the copper theft problem NOW is bad?  Wait until you put lots of nice copper laden chargers on every urban street!  

Speaking of crime in cities, which is rapidly increasing, no sane individual wants to immobilize their car for even 20-30 minutes to get a decent fast charge if you're in an urban area.   How many of you have related stories about being accosted by a panhandler at a gas station in the short time that you need to fuel up an ICE vehicle?  Why would anyone want to stay longer in such a targeted environment?  You want to pay at the pump, gas up and get the hell back on the road.  

We've ruled out EVs for city dwellers.  What about deep rural folks (like  where I grew up)?  They won't adopt EVs due to range concerns.  

So we've ruled out EVs for city people and rural folks.  The reality is that pure EVs only work for the suburbs, where folks have real garages so they can charge at home but are close enough to work that they don't need to charge at work.  With 70% of the population in the US being "urban", it just doesn't apply to most people.  

To be clear, the technology will catch up.  Eventually we will go back, full circle, to where we are today -- "gas stations" will be replaced by "EV stations", where you can charge in 5 minutes for 200-300 miles of juice.  However, those sorts of huge infrastructure changes will happen at a much slower pace than most EV proponents realize.  Until that time, EVs are limited to the small segment of society that have garages in the suburbs --  i.e., not much of America.  

Yep, this would be a huge concern.

I had a Volt for 4 years, but I have a house with a garage and, GET THIS! I actually park my car IN THE GARAGE! So I had a L2 charger available to me. It was so convenient.

Apartment dwellers with no access to chargers at home have to make a bit of a compromise. A bit more than a gasser would. A friend of mine was thinking about getting a Tesla Model 3, but he wouldn't be able to charge at his apartment complex. He doesn't have need to drive a lot, so he figured he could go to the nearby Supercharger once a week or so. Sure, one could do that, but it's still not very convenient.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend anyone buy an electric car unless they had some way to charge at home. A house with a garage that you can park in and have a L2 charger wired in would be an ideal situation.

None of this matters.

You WILL have an electric car eventually, you will just have to alter your lifestyle to accommodate it.

Or take the bus.

Restricting personal mobility is one of the stated goals of the left.

Actually Electric is better. Price will come down as they are produced more.

I have a Tesla. No way would I have one without a home charger. One of the nicer features is have a complete charge  every day. Not happening on a 110. Mine even has free supercharging for life, and a convenient location right on my way to/from work. Still wouldn’t do it without a 240 at home.

Home charger is a necessity and it needs to be 220.

My electric bill was $14 last month for 1k of driving.

this

I think you're being way too pessimistic.  Electric vehicles have some great advantages, like a much simpler drive train that's far more reliable.  Yes, we're at the point today where they're just being introduced to the average owner, and they do have disadvantages like charging etc.  But in a few years that will be solved and the resulting vehicles will be superior. Sure, the Left pushes for public transportation, but that only works in the city (and only when well implemented).  It has nothing to do with the introduction of EV's for general use.  I'm curious on how good a job Ford will do with the coming electric F-150.  They know if it doesn't at least equal the gas F-150 it will likely bomb, so I'm hoping to see some real ingenuity from them.

Buddy of mine in S.FL has a Tesla... We needed to charge it on the way back from Miami, kind of a pain. The screen will tell you where the charging stations are and how many stations are available, it still took 30min to juice the thing up to where we could get back to his house. I don't remember how many mi that tacked on, maybe 30-50.

Now imagine if there was a hurricane coming or the power went out, good luck. EV's are neat but no way in hell that would be my only vehicle. Granted gas gets tough too, but you're not sitting there for that long w/ a minimal gain in milage.

That part already exists.  Tesla Superchargers charge that fast.

Still, the biggest convenience of an EV is the ability to charge at home so if you can't charge at home, EVs just don't make that much sense.

I wouldn't own one if I didn't have 240v in my garage, period.

You won't fix it anywhere very quickly.  

Europe has the same limitation, only worse, since their cities were largely not designed around cars (Paris roads were designed by cattle wandering to pasture) and are entirely too narrow for parking.  Of course, they are also much more accustomed to not owning cars.

Hint, hint.  Get used to being discouraged in ownership of cars.  Cities will drag their feet on installing publicly available charging stations or allowing them to be installed by individuals.  Only corporate stations will be allowed (with the proper grease in the wheels of the bureaucracy) and will be taxed to the limit of endurance.

Live outside the city?  Welcome to double the cost of transportation, since electrical infrastructure will not be allowed to expand at the required rates so you will have to have at least two vehicles and/or a large battery bank along with solar panels.  Once more than 10% have those installed the city will change ordinances and make you pay a premium to be allowed to keep them (solar panels are unsightly and that battery bank is DANGEROUS!!).

EVs aren't some critical lynch pin in that plan, if that is their plan.

Gasoline is an easier to control commodity than electricity and "network connected" features that could be maliciously exploited by a totalitarian government can be implemented on a gas vehicle just as easily as an EV vehicle.

OK fine, but we need as many of them as we have gas stations today.

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If it's the Left you're afraid of in this respect, don't forget that they're the ones pushing to eliminate fossil fuels entirely.  That means they will be forced to update the electrical infrastructure anyway, in order to heat all the homes and office buildings using oil and natural gas today.   I haven't done any research on this, but I'd guess the extra load presented by charging EV's would not be significant compared to the heating load.

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It would help without a doubt but I don't think it's apples to apples when the vast majority of EV miles are driven on home charging.

There need to be enough gas stations to keep up with 100% of the energy demand for gas vehicles.  There is practically no alternative for fueling up if you have a gas car.

EVs are an entirely different paradigm.  Most EV owners are going to be doing most of their "refueling" at home in their garage.  It's a much smaller portion of the total miles driven that will need to be accounted for with public facing charging stations.

Still, it's a no brainer that there will need to be many more than there are today so I'm not totally disagreeing with you.

I am firmly in the 80%.

I know. California already has power shortages. Let's add more demand and not increase supply.

True for those with the ability to charge at home.  But those who live in the city with only on-street parking, we need enough Superchargers to accommodate them.  

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It's not free from criticism, but from a tech/engineering standpoint, it is better, or at the very least, will eventually be better as it matures (Range/charge time is personally my biggest reservation for electric cars). I picked up an electric weedwhacker today, and the thing's pretty tits. I'll probably get an electric lawnmower soon.

My personal experience.

I have an EV.
I also own a diesel truck.
There is also a gas classic car in the garage.

I plan to sell the old Cadillac. I plan to trade in my EV in 3-4 years for another EV.

Instant torque is pretty fucking cool.

Absolutely, not arguing against that one bit.

The left is trying to limit our range and freedom of movement.

Hard to revolt and move on .gov if you only “fill up” in 4 or 5 hours.

Hard to revolt and move on .gov if the national guard is called out to seize gas stations.

It's a jerk off fantasy that EVs are part of some grand plan to suppress and control the populace.  If they wanted to do that, they wouldn't have to go through nearly the trouble.

COVID-19 already proved what they can get people to do merely by decree, fear, and propaganda.

No worries!  If you are in Florida, just hook to to the 240v outlet on your 12 Kw gasoline generator.  That will charge it in no time!  

There is a serious flood of Teslas is n the market right now.  

Part of that is because of leasing and probably the cars going off warranty, but I think people also got over the novelty of it.   I guess we will see.

As I've said in several EV threads

Lol, no they don't.  A simple Google search says 30-40 minutes gets you to 80% capacity.

Actually dog turds taste great when they're deep-fried.

There is no "o" in potato.

The capitol of South Dakota is Brussels.

Given all the obvious and manifold drawbacks to owning an EV, nicely summarized in the article,  an 80% retention rate sounds pretty good.  OP should write for Pravda.

And at what long term cost? Fast charging reduces battery life, and you don't get infinite charge cycles. Or so I've been instructed on every lithium powered product I own.

Pretty much. They're fun things for well off people, which is fine if that's what you want. But these people have the means to make it work, which again is fine. But then they don't seem to understand why it isn't a viable option for so many other people, which isn't so great.

Most modern gas engines are also very reliable too.

I'm not saying the hurdles and limitations won't eventually be overcome but I think people really downplay how big they are. Like "they'll solve charging" what do you mean solve it? It's not some limitation that can be solved with some engineering. It's a chemistry problem. You just can't put energy into the batteries fast enough. Until better batteries come it is what it is. Maybe they'll come sooner than later

Lol, because oil spills and burning gas is such a better alternative.

This is the harsh reality the "just charge it faster" crowd likes to leave out.
Lithium batteries can only be charged so fast before damage occurs. Different chemistry can help but it still happens. Crystals grow inside the cells. How much damage depends on how fast and how much you do it, but supercharging isn't great for battery health.

This is why they need to keep refining hybrids also.

People that can't charge at home can still charge on the go with a full tank of gas, but use a lot less of it than they normally would.

Hardly anyone thinks about apartments.

About a third of the country live in rentals. 70% in complex's less than 20 units.  In the last decade there's been @ 2 million new multi family units built.  There's a total of 43 million rental households in the US.

There's a number of challenges dealing with this - even in the most recent round of development, tho some areas have dealt with multi fam charging  infrastructure - through market or requirements. There's solutions in play - some
turn key fee based outfits that will retro exist, but it's going to be a choke point for a lot of people. Some of this might get pushed employer side or fixed by reduced charging times (most early chargers installed are going obsolete)  - but near term It's dicey in multifam for EV owners. Which means opportunities.

I like EV but until it has quick <10 min charging at stations it won't sell or be practical for most people.  

If I purchase a Tesla I will figure in the cost of the 220v charger in my garage. I park my gassers in there already so it won't be a huge change.

In my new vehicle research it definitely seems like hybrids would be the most practical for the majority of people. It really seems like the best of both.

I've got a down payment on a new plug in hybrid that will hopefully be here in a week or so.

I don't have a dedicated home charger and probably won't for the time being. Electricity here is pretty expensive. And I've never even seen a local charging station. The closest ones I know about are still 20+ minutes away.

But 600 mile range with everything filled up. I'm not even concerned about range or plugging it in, as it still has great gas mileage.

I would say significantly more. Can a Tesla supercharger go from zero to full in 10 min? Because a 16gal Honda accord can easily counting pulling in, paying, etc.

Now, is there infrastructure available so two dozen people can be doing it simultaneously like at the local WaWa?

I have seen great improvements on the lithium battery front over the past, say, 10 years or so. They are impressive, and they do improve device use. I'm definitely a fan of the technology.

But the charging rules have remained constant. They have not really changed at all.  You are not avoiding down time while your device sits on a charger. Any attempts to greatly speed up the process will win you a new battery bill down the road.

If this will get better in the future, I haven't seen any signs that we are headed that way.

Have you been to a strip mining operation? Fuel, oil and all other contaminates are spilled
and leaked all over. it disrupts ground water movements.

Then factor the coal mining into it.

The electric car is not green at all.

Any type of plug in vehicle would work great for my wife's brother.

They live pretty close to work, and in their town there is a hydro electric plant that was built on the water, and part of the deal was that anyone living in the village would get extremely discounted electricity. It's so cheap that he heats is entire house with heat.

He could plug in every night or as needed, do the 1 mile trip to work every day, but be able to have enough range for whatever other trip he would need, or just keep the truck they tow the camper with for longer trips and probably save a pile on fuel costs.

Youre discounting on site charging. One of my attorneys tells me he's never charged anywhere but his work, home or hotel - mostly work. Couple other owners I know indicate similar.

Vast majority of travel for most peeps ends somewhere they can charge. I drive a lot. Even when busiest I can't recall packing in more than 200. Attorney points out he starts almost every drive with 300+ worst case. Only need supplemental
when traveling or if one of your "bases" lack charging.

I'd hate to hunt for a charger. plug in every time I stop. But talking with lots of EV owners (almost all Tesla)  - it's really not much of a change for them.

They say these solid state batteries will be the game changer. They don't get (or significantly reduced) these crystals from charging quickly. We'll see but I'm not hold my breath for it to be anytime soon.

I decided on a rav4 prime 42ish mile range on EV only. Toyota still has the $7500 tax credit too.

don't forget townhouses etc limited to street parking

I live in a gentrifying 'hood where older bungalows are being replaced, mostly by duplexes. The majority of those have at least one vehicle parked in front. The majority of the duplexes don't have a garage, let alone a 2-car garage.