Quoted: Would love to go to St. Maarten just see this. img295.imageshack.us/img295/858/1249900pl9.jpg img228.imageshack.us/img228/3533/1078774vn3.jpg img295.imageshack.us/img295/6739/0686219ve8.jpg

I'd take my quality digital camera and take movies of that.

I have seen quite a few.  These are a few pics from when I actually had my camera out.  Bonus points if you can name the airport.





and one of the airport



Pat

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm excited for the 787's.  I think for a passenger aircraft, they are really nice looking. My wife's uncle is the chief engineer for the 787 program. Well, tell him good job, and we can't wait for Northwest(err, soon to be Delta) to get theirs in MSP. I'd be surprised if we kept the 787 orders.  We're going to be so busy trimming down the fleet from over 950 aircraft, we won't want anymore aircraft coming in. Delta has THAT MANY??? Holy carp!

If the Delta/NWA merger goes through, that's what the combined fleet size will be on day one.  Our current fleet size is roughly 425 or so, and NWA is roughly 550.  When American bought TWA, that night, their fleet swelled up to over 1100 a/c.  American kept the MD-80's and 777's.  They sold off or mothballed the 717, 757 and most of the 767's.  The old TWA 757's are now Delta 757's.

Quoted: I have seen quite a few.  These are a few pics from when I actually had my camera out.  Bonus points if you can name the airport. i168.photobucket.com/albums/u199/SemperMO/IMG_0046.jpg i168.photobucket.com/albums/u199/SemperMO/IMG_0053.jpg and one of the airport i168.photobucket.com/albums/u199/SemperMO/IMG_0825.jpg Pat

Hmmm - Anchorage? - I've been there, but I don't remember the mountains that close.  It's been 15years or so.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm excited for the 787's.  I think for a passenger aircraft, they are really nice looking. My wife's uncle is the chief engineer for the 787 program. Well, tell him good job, and we can't wait for Northwest(err, soon to be Delta) to get theirs in MSP. I'd be surprised if we kept the 787 orders.  We're going to be so busy trimming down the fleet from over 950 aircraft, we won't want anymore aircraft coming in.

the going theory up here is that phasing out the old aircraft will continue, and the 787 fleet will still be incoming.  With the gas prices, they can't wait to get a more fuel efficient fleet.

Quoted: To make the story a brief one,  he had to take the KC-135 up to mach .95 in order to match speeds and tank with an F-104 that had experienced a mechanical failure that left it with no engine but did leave it with a working afterburner,  so that's what the 104 pilot used,  in conjunction with full speed brakes to try to stay slow enough that getting hooked up to the tanker was possible.

Don't buy that.  How did the AB function w/out a running engine?

BTW, there is a documented case of a 727 breakin Mach 1.

ETA:  TWA FLT 841, uncontrolled dive

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Dont see many of these big jets around anymore though.  You must not get out very much.  Try sitting in the terminal at Narita (Tokyo) or Hong Kong.  95% of all the aircraft there are 747-400's.  Thick as flies.  Granted the US market had changed quite a bit, but you can still catch a 747 long haul out of any major airport (ORD, MEM, LAX, MSP, JFK, SEA, DFW, etc) Yes, all of us feel like hanging around terminals in Tokyo or Hong Kong for no reason at all. When you are hitting Mainland China 2 - 3 times a year, you fly on 747's and you have 4 hour layovers in Tokyo and Hong Kong, WTF?.   I do realize however that some of you never get past the city limits.

I have quite a few friends from China, and many friends that travel to China regularly, but I have no desire to go there myself so no, I won't be sitting at a terminal in Hong Kong any time soon and neither will 99.99999% of the rest of the people who live in the US.

Forgot: in Ramstien Germany, from the hatch # something on top of a C-5...

Quoted: If you want to see some good pics of all sorts of aircraft try www.airliners.net.

thanks I will have to give it a look.

Quoted: Hmmm - Anchorage? - I've been there, but I don't remember the mountains that close.  It's been 15years or so.

correct, I think I might have used some zoom for the mountains

Quoted: Quoted: I flew on one of those Evergreen 747's going to Kuwait from Ramstein... Longest flight Ive ever taken was on a BA 747 London to LAX.... I've made that flight. A long time ago. It sucked massive ass. Although it seems that I will be looking at 16+hours from LAX to Auckland later this year and I wanna cry just thinking about it. Any one know a cheap anesthesiologist?

Flying from LAX to Europe sucks really bad, especially when you don't like to fly

Quoted: i33.tinypic.com/2rlymxe.jpg

I have seen this configuration (during landing) up close while working at Kennedy Space Center. My mind still refuses to place it in the category of NON-FICTION.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksmDuXO_k6E&feature=related

747 landing in St. Maarten.

youtube FTW tonight.

Is St. Maarten the best place in the world to see something like the 747 that up close and personal?  It's a mission.  I'm going to where ever the best place is!!  

I've got to see that.  Have to!

Quoted: Is St. Maarten the best place in the world to see something like the 747 that up close and personal?  It's a mission.  I'm going to where ever the best place is!!   I've got to see that.  Have to!

More than likely.  Get any closer and you'll get skidmarks on your head from the tires, or get sucked into a jet engine.

They have contests of a sort at the beach.  The object is to see who can stand on his own
two feet longest, without hanging onto the fence or anything else,  against the jet
blast of a 747 taking off down the runway, going away from the beach.

Of course, you may feel like a sandblasted fried egg when it's done.


CJ

Quoted: I have seen quite a few.  These are a few pics from when I actually had my camera out.  Bonus points if you can name the airport. i168.photobucket.com/albums/u199/SemperMO/IMG_0046.jpg i168.photobucket.com/albums/u199/SemperMO/IMG_0053.jpg and one of the airport i168.photobucket.com/albums/u199/SemperMO/IMG_0825.jpg Pat

Anchorage.  

Quoted: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksmDuXO_k6E&feature=related 747 landing in St. Maarten. youtube FTW tonight.

Wow, thats  short runway..reminds me of landing in Cozumel, Mexico..

Quoted: This went Mach 1. Boeing engineers told the FAA it would have come apart so the offical NTSB report lists .98 Mach. All the FDR data said 1.01, my fathers friend was flying at the time. cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/8/2/2/0154228.jpg

I can't read the tail # on that one.  If someone can get me the N# I think I can find out how true this is.

Quoted: Evergreen has a 747 water bomber. Check it out The videos of it are really cool.

we had to move one the other night because of a fire at our facility

Quoted: i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/tr1290/Aircraft%20Pictures/Boeing_747_LCF_N780BA-2.jpg

One of these is supposed to come to our facility on 8/1 for a C check we are told.  

Originally Posted By Mark D: Quoted: This went Mach 1. Boeing engineers told the FAA it would have come apart so the offical NTSB report lists .98 Mach. All the FDR data said 1.01, my fathers friend was flying at the time. cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/8/2/2/0154228.jpg Bear in mind that Evergreen is essentially Air America, and staffed with a bunch of cowboys.  If anybody was gonna take a 747 supersonic, it would be that crew. Seen them every day for the last 18 years.

What facility are you at?  MZJ here

Quoted: Forgot: in Ramstien Germany, from the hatch # something on top of a C-5... i134.photobucket.com/albums/q94/junker46/tanker.jpg

We had to move one of these because of a fire at our facility the other night...  Talk about irony  I think it was N479EV if I'm not mistaken

and some of the more notable 747's I've worked on

N747BC


N740EV


P4-FSH  747SP


We've been working a few SP's lately.  Most of our work is 747's, SP's, and DC-10's

he had to take the KC-135 up to mach .95 in order to match speeds and tank with an F-104 that had experienced a mechanical failure that left it with no engine but did leave it with a working afterburner, so that's what the 104 pilot used, in conjunction with full speed brakes to try to stay slow enough that getting hooked up to the tanker was possible

So, how did the Starfighter land?

There are 747s here in Louisville, and they're anything but unusual at SFO.

They've got a few years left in them yet.

NTM

all 747-400s tracked by the FAA
all 747-300s tracked by the FAA
all 747-200s tracked by the FAA

All Delta planes in the air
All Northwest planes in the air
All Southwest planes in the air

Information on Saint Martin's airport

Quoted: Quoted: This went Mach 1. Boeing engineers told the FAA it would have come apart so the offical NTSB report lists .98 Mach. All the FDR data said 1.01, my fathers friend was flying at the time. cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/8/2/2/0154228.jpg I can't read the tail # on that one.  If someone can get me the N# I think I can find out how true this is. Quoted: Evergreen has a 747 water bomber. Check it out The videos of it are really cool. we had to move one the other night because of a fire at our facility Quoted: i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/tr1290/Aircraft%20Pictures/Boeing_747_LCF_N780BA-2.jpg One of these is supposed to come to our facility on 8/1 for a C check we are told.   Originally Posted By Mark D: Quoted: This went Mach 1. Boeing engineers told the FAA it would have come apart so the offical NTSB report lists .98 Mach. All the FDR data said 1.01, my fathers friend was flying at the time. cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/8/2/2/0154228.jpg Bear in mind that Evergreen is essentially Air America, and staffed with a bunch of cowboys.  If anybody was gonna take a 747 supersonic, it would be that crew. Seen them every day for the last 18 years. What facility are you at?  MZJ here Quoted: Forgot: in Ramstien Germany, from the hatch # something on top of a C-5... i134.photobucket.com/albums/q94/junker46/tanker.jpg We had to move one of these because of a fire at our facility the other night...  Talk about irony  I think it was N479EV if I'm not mistaken and some of the more notable 747's I've worked on N747BC img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/jimmydeuce/1236996.jpg N740EV img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/jimmydeuce/1268697.jpg P4-FSH  747SP img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/jimmydeuce/p4-fsh.jpg We've been working a few SP's lately.  Most of our work is 747's, SP's, and DC-10's

I am pretty sure my cousin Kay worked with you last year. She was up in Oregon, but was in Marana for a few weeks a couple of times.

Quoted: Quoted: Is St. Maarten the best place in the world to see something like the 747 that up close and personal?  It's a mission.  I'm going to where ever the best place is!!   I've got to see that.  Have to! More than likely.  Get any closer and you'll get skidmarks on your head from the tires, or get sucked into a jet engine. They have contests of a sort at the beach.  The object is to see who can stand on his own two feet longest, without hanging onto the fence or anything else,  against the jet blast of a 747 taking off down the runway, going away from the beach. Of course, you may feel like a sandblasted fried egg when it's done. CJ

Sounds like there is only one 747 that lands there a week!  And they spell it St. Martin.  Is that the same?   Is there a better place to see big jets up close?

Quoted: Quoted: I am pretty sure my cousin Kay worked with you last year. She was up in Oregon, but was in Marana for a few weeks a couple of times.

She would most likely be with EIA, The airline.  I'm with EMC the maintenance side.  I could be wrong though... MMo1

I'm still kinda curious how the F-104 landed...

Quoted: Quoted: Hmmm - Anchorage? - I've been there, but I don't remember the mountains that close.  It's been 15years or so. correct, I think I might have used some zoom for the mountains

How many bonus internets did I win???

Quoted: I'm still kinda curious how the F-104 landed...

I'm still curious about how the ab worked...

Somehow this one captures all the romance and optimism of this era in aviation.  Lined up pre-delivery in Everett, September 1969:

Yeah I miss the aviation days of Pan Am too. Pan Am was the only airline that "colored" folks flew in back in the day especially international flights. United used to be "whites" only. Now my dad works for United lol. I see 747s all day long from my parents house that over looks SFO. It is Loud and it gets old fast. Hate the Cathay Pacific and Singapore Hong Kong flights as they leave around midnight and 1am. Shaking the roofs and hearing the loud engines roar in the middle of the night as they take off. Fun as a kid but not anymore when you are older. I like peace and quiet when I sleep.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm still kinda curious how the F-104 landed... I'm still curious about how the ab worked...

Well, it seems our curiosity has been piqued and there are no answers to be found...

I cannot understand how a plane on full afterburner can (safely) land.  Can you really land a plane at .95 Mach??  Now, I can understand if the pilot simply bailed out, which would make sense.  But then, why would he need to be refueled if he's only going to bail out??

Where did the poster tanker/F104 story go??

I'll be taking my first 747 trip this coming Friday.  British Airways, SEA-LHR on the 747-400.  I've crossed the Pacific a few times and the Atlantic twice but always on the 777, A330, and A340.

Brian

Since this is Arfcom, I ran across this one and felt it simply HAD to be posted:

Quoted: Quoted: i33.tinypic.com/2rlymxe.jpg These are bigger.. Raise you one Anotov 225 and a Buran.

The ruskies certainly made the right decision trashing that idiotic shuttle idea.  We should have stayed focused on heavy lifting boosters.   [ / thread-jack ]

My first flight (to HI for a vacation) was also on aa 747

LOL badfish274 very funny.  Shouldn't it have said "White side up?"

Quoted: the horror those people faced. I remember one reporter said, many were aware and alive all the way down

Courtesy "Religion of Peace".  Murdering innocent / unarmed men, women and children since 624,

Quoted: Someone's daddy should have made sure that their children were taught how to behave civilly..

I don't think you can claim the moral high ground when you were the first to sling mud.  Why don't both of you knock it off.  This is a cool thread w/o the BS.

Quoted: I'm still kinda curious how the F-104 landed...

gravity

Quoted: i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/tr1290/Aircraft%20Pictures/1371102.jpg i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/tr1290/Aircraft%20Pictures/1371184.jpg

Wow that Qantas paint job is almost as loud as the engines that push it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm still kinda curious how the F-104 landed... I'm still curious about how the ab worked... Well, it seems our curiosity has been piqued and there are no answers to be found... I cannot understand how a plane on full afterburner can (safely) land.  Can you really land a plane at .95 Mach??  Now, I can understand if the pilot simply bailed out, which would make sense.  But then, why would he need to be refueled if he's only going to bail out?? Where did the poster tanker/F104 story go??

I can recount it because it's my father's story.


What I post here is,  word for word,  a letter of appreciation which synopsizes the event.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- 436th Tactical Fighter Squadron 479th Tactical Fighter Wing (TAC) UNITED STATES AIR FORCE George Air Force Base, California                                 (stamped 14 Aug 1962) REPLY TO ATTN OF:  (FGS) SUBJECT: Letter of Appreciation To:  Captain William M. Johnson       46th Air Refueling Squadron       K.I. Sawyer AFB, Michingan THRU: 479th Tc Ftr Wg (FC)          George AFB, Calif 1:   The purpose letter is to invite official recognition to the outstanding peformance of Captain William M. Johnson, KC-135 Aircraft Commander  (Foam 32), during the conduct of Fox Able 135/ Fox Able 2, on 6 August 1962.   The undersigned was F-104 Liaison Officer on board the lead tanker of the third (Foam 31) KC-135 tanker/receiver cell at the time of this incident. 2:   Approximately 550 n. m. west of Lajes, Azores, Captain Roger J. Wichers, 435th TFS, flying the SAUL 33 position on Captain Johnson's wing, experienced a loss of oil pressure and resultant drifting of aircraft exhaust nozzles to the open position.  Within a matter of seconds, the nozzles failed completely open.   With n nozzle failure such as this in F-104 aircraft, it become impossible to maintain level flight above 3000 ft (MSL) unless the afterburner power range i s successfully activated.   In this instance, the F-104 pilot experienced difficulty in obtaining an afterburner light and, as a consequence, fell several miles behind and approximately 10,000 feet below the tanker cell before he could gain power.  Captain Johnson immediately reduced power and maneuvered his aircraft to maintian visual contact with the F-104.   Only through his own skill and the alertness o fhis crew was he able to do so.   Once the F-104 obtained an afterburner light, the problem then became one of excessive power and prohibitive fuel consumption. The F-104, at this high power setting and fuel flow, could not have made it to Lajes unassisted.   With tanker and receivers in visual contact,  Captain Johnson accelerated his KC-135 to a maximum acceptable indicated airspeed and gained altitude which permitted the F-104, using speed brakes to regulate airspeed to effect a hook-up.  Once a successful hook-up had been made, Captain Johnson lead the F-104, with exceptional skill, to Lajes where the F-104 pilot was able to land his aircraft without damage.  The F-104 was on-tanker for 42 minuets during this emergency; a total of over 13,000 lbs of JP4 was transferred to the disabled fighter. 3:  Thanks in large measure to the skill and alertness of Captain Johnson and his crew, and to Captain Johnson's personal determination to "see his chicks safely to base", a first-line fighter aircraft, and possibly the life of an outstanding tactical air crew was saved.  There is no question in my mind but that had this emergency occurred while other than KC-135 tankers were being used, or with less professionally qualified crews involved, this aircraft would have been list.  This incident serves as an excellent example, not only of courageous, professional airmenship on the part of both pilots involved, but of outstanding SAC/TAC teamwork in the successful accomplishment of a difficult mission under extreme emergency conditions.   Well done, Captain Johnson! (signed) WESTWOOD H. FLETCHER, JR Major, USAF Commander ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My father received an Air Force Commendation for his role.   The pilot of the F-104,
Captain Wichers,  received a Distinguished Flying Cross.



My father wrote a personal account of the incident as well.  I can post the whole thing
if I'm asked to do so but it's a good three full pages.

I will say that there's a lot more detail in my father's accounting of the story than
appears in the official letter quoted above.   It wasn't a one-shot hookup, it took
several tries and the F-104 bounced all over the sky, yo-yo-ing a few times up and
down,  going way high (near 50,000 feet, apparently) and down to as little as 15,000
feet before the hookup.


My father told me that in this event,  he got the KC-135 as close to mach as he dared
go, to make the hookup,  and MAY have exceeded Vne (Velocity, never exceed),
the highest safe rated airspeed for the type.


CJ

BTT because some of you may have forgotten to check on this and wanted to see it.

CJ

Is there a better place than St. Martin to see big jets up close and personal?  I'll bring back plenty of pictures!

…experienced a loss of oil pressure and resultant drifting of aircraft exhaust nozzles to the open position. Within a matter of seconds, the nozzles failed completely open. With n nozzle failure such as this in F-104 aircraft, it become impossible to maintain level flight above 3000 ft (MSL) unless the afterburner power range i s successfully activated. In this instance, the F-104 pilot experienced difficulty in obtaining an afterburner light…

Ah, the engine didn't fail as in stopped running but the 'turkey feathers' stuck in the full open position. Could barely support combustion.

I bet the landing was hairy, but not too hairy:  I believe the 104 still crossed the fence at 200 kts.

Don't forget the most shagadellic 747:

Yes,  as the letter says,  an F-104 can't maintain level flight below 3000 feet MSL in that condition.  So a normal landing was presumably possible, but apparently he was running
on fumes so an extended approach to bleed off excess airspeed wasn't really in the picture.


CJ

Quoted: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksmDuXO_k6E&feature=related 747 landing in St. Maarten. youtube FTW tonight.

I'll raise your St. Maarten by one Hong Kong landing...

747 Hong Kong

Quoted: I've worked on 747-100/200/400 and SP's they're just "big" just like the C5, which I also worked on.  not much too 'em other than being "big" coolest thing?  low level, high performance maneuvering in these bad boys

+1 on the maneuvering....when the Hong Kong airport was right in downtown HK, you could look out of the windows of the 747 and see people eating in their apartments, I shit you not! I heard that pilots had to do many many hours in a simulator of the HK landing and fly copilot a few times before being allowed to land a 747 heavy at that airport. As you came in you would bank and swerve and the descent was steep right down among the buildings as there are cliffs on the edge of HK. Crazy cool.

Last time I flew in they moved the airport to some nice safe place...bastards, ruined the fun. I mean after being on a plane for 12 -15 hours it's nice to have some stimulation.

Edited from wiki:
The landing approach using runway 13 at Kai Tak was spectacular and world-famous. To land on runway 13, an aircraft first took a descent heading northeast. The aircraft would pass over the crowded harbour, and then the very densely populated areas on Western Kowloon. This leg of the approach was guided by an IGS (Instrument Guidance System, a modified ILS) after 1974.

Upon reaching a small hill marked with a checkerboard in red and white, used as a visual reference point on the final approach (in addition to the middle marker on the Instrument Guidance System), the pilot needed to make a 47° visual right turn to line up with the runway and complete the final leg. The aircraft would be just two nautical miles (3.7 km) from touchdown, at a height of less than 1,000 feet (300 m) when the turn was made. Typically the plane would enter the final right turn at the height of about 650 feet (200 m) and exit it at the height of 140 feet (43 m) to line up with the runway.

Landing the runway 13 approach was already difficult with normal crosswinds since even if the wind direction was constant, as it was changing relative to the airplane when the 47° visual right turn is being made. The landing would become even more challenging when crosswinds from the northeast were strong and gusty during typhoons. The mountain range northeast of the airport also makes wind vary greatly in both speed and direction; thus, varying the lift of the airplane. From a spectator's point of view, watching large Boeing 747s banking at low altitudes and taking big crab angles during their final approaches was quite thrilling. Despite the difficulty, it was nonetheless used most of the time due to the prevailing wind direction in Hong Kong.

Due to the turn in final approach, ILS was not available for runway 13 and landings had to follow a visual approach. This made the runway unusable in low visibility conditions.


[edit] Runway 31 approach
Landing from 31 was just like other normal runways in terms of landing where ILS landing was possible. For takeoffs, aircraft had to make a sharp left turn soon after takeoff to avoid the hills (a reverse of what landing traffic would do on Runway 13). Because the taxiway next to the runway would have been occupied by aircraft taxiing for takeoff, landing traffic could only exit the runway right at the end.

I used to be an aircrew member on this

St. Martin it is!

Quoted: I used to be an aircrew member on this

Can anyone that hasn't crewed or worked on a 747 guess what the spikes on the aft end of the wingtips are?