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The BS rules make no sense.  You registered the lower as a rifle via form 1, but want to make it a pistol again.  AFAIK, you can't go back to making it a pistol once it's become a rifle. That shouldn't matter since you've already registered it as an SBR, which means you can use it with a stock.  I would think the lower is an SBR no matter what upper you place on it except for the convoluted BS that says you can't revert back to a pistol after it's been a rifle.  In essence, if you put a brace on it now, to make it a pistol, you would be in violation.

What if you put the longer upper on for hunting, and then went to a state where SBR's are illegal.  Does it now become illegal because the lower is registered as an SBR and that state doesn't allow SBRs?

It's playing the monkey f*uck games like this that makes agencies look like buffoons.  They're as bad as LBGT with their pronouns and being a tranny one day, a lesbian the next, bi/gay the next, and then bitching that people aren't calling you by your preferred pronoun.

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So stuff I want to SBR I just put a brace on, get a free stamp, and then put a stock on it?

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Amnesty could simply mean you have a period of time to register and pay your $200 before you’re guilty of a felony.

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Wonderful.

#2 was is the clincher, though.

Gov can simply send you a certified letter stating "we know you still have it, you committed a crime if you sold it or lost it and didn't report, and if you don't surrender it to local law enforcement by next week, we will fine you $2,000 per week, garnish wages via the IRS, put a lien on your home and vehicles, etc."

They cannot do that with non-registered weapons.

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Wonderful.

#2 was is the clincher, though.

Gov can simply send you a certified letter stating "we know you still have it, you committed a crime if you sold it or lost it and didn't report, and if you don't surrender it to local law enforcement by next week, we will fine you $2,000 per week, garnish wages via the IRS, put a lien on your home and vehicles, etc."

They cannot do that with non-registered weapons.

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In many states (mine included) one can legally have an SBR in a vehicle without issue. YMMV.

My current understanding is that even if most braces are banned/ruled SBRs, not all will be. So if you’re in a pistol only state OR don’t want to mess with NFA, acquire one of those braces.


eta: yes, the rules are stupid and they have been for quite some time.

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If I remember correctly, that dude had an unregistered MP5, M240, and an Uzi (maybe more), plus modified solvent traps.  He got rolled and flipped.

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Here's the deal folks, if you are already a legal class III owner with form1 and form4 items there shouldn't be any type of uproar if you want to SBR your pistol braced firearm. Your name is already on the registry.

If you want to register your pistol braced firearm as an SBR you're still submitting the same information as you were submitting back in the day. There's no difference.

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Keep in mind anything amnesty registered will probably wind up with a footnote saying the stamp is only good in that configuration-getting a free stamp and adding a stock won't work.

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Being on the registry is like being on the short list. Sure they CAN start combing through 4473 and interviewing private sales and demanding CC records, but it's much easier to check a registry you already.

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also, Is there still a point system or does this replace the points system?

How long is the grace period?

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Wonderful.

#2 was is the clincher, though.

Gov can simply send you a certified letter stating "we know you still have it, you committed a crime if you sold it or lost it and didn't report, and if you don't surrender it to local law enforcement by next week, we will fine you $2,000 per week, garnish wages via the IRS, put a lien on your home and vehicles, etc."

They cannot do that with non-registered weapons.

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Correct, which is why a growing number of states have outlawed the ability to do that...  hmmm.


Also - 4473’s by themselves are not a fucking registration, only folks with zero understanding of basic FFL paperwork think it is.  

They certain can become a registration, should ATF decide to come take photos of my files, and every other FFL’s files.  And should I close down my FFL, they now want ALL old 4473’s to be sent to them (used to be able to shred ones older than 20 years).

But until that happens, 4473’s don’t equal a registration.  All they know is that you bought something from the NICS check- and NICS checks at the federal level include no info about the gun except what type of firearm it was.  So they know if you bought a rifle, shotgun, frame, pistol, etc.

State level requirements are different, for example WA basically registers all pistol transfers and semi auto rifle transfers.  I think OR transfers require a lot of info on the firearm, and I would not hold my breath on that info not being kept somewhere after the transfer is approved, regardless of what the law is.  But a basic FBI NICS check, done for a regular old 4473, is not becoming a workable registration scheme very easily or anytime soon (by design of the actual laws in effect).  They just don’t get any relevant info off the 4473 when you call in the NICS check, or do it online.   Don’t know why the hell people can’t understand this....


Also- this brace BS sucks ass.  It will cause problems here, #1 as SBS is not allowed by WA state law, so not sure where TAC-14’s with braces will fall (probably un-registerable).  For AR pistols with braces, folks will lose the ability to easily travel across state lines, and the ability to keep them loaded.  For example my truck gun is an AR pistol, so now I would need to swap it out for a 16” barreled rifle and ensure it is never loaded in the vehicle.  And AOW’s are allowed, what if someone has a brace on one of those already- GTG or ?  What a goddamn mess it will create...

I think now is as good of a time as any for lawsuits challenging NFA to happen- put a big kabosh on this messed up point system BS and ATF’s ever changing opinions on what equals what.  

Any agency which is clearly so incompetent in its actions as ATF, who has shown themselves to be regarding braces, bump stocks, and triggers, clearly is incapable of consistency and accuracy in determining laws or rules.  So shit can them, no more interpreting law for them, since they have shown they are incapable of handling it correctly (and enforcement agencies should never have the ability to make up rules anyhow).

Go for all the marbles legally.  Bruen case gives us the ammo to do it...

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So stuff I want to SBR I just put a brace on, get a free stamp, and then put a stock on it?

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Once a pistol becomes an SBR it can't cross state lines without paperwork. In many places it can't be transported loaded inside a vehicle or OHV. Bye bye truck/quad gun.

Who would go for this? Dumb city boys who's firearms never leave the safe?

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If it was originally a pistol then you can remove the feature that made it a sbr and it reverts back to a pistol and you can cross state lines like before.

" Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by        modification/elimination of components.

Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon. "

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There's a reason they want photos... so they can prove you changed the configuration of the firearm after it was registered.

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If you're going to take the brace off, why the hell would you further kowtow and register it. That's the derpiest thing I've read so far.

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These should not be SBRs.

If they are going to shoe horn braced pistols into the NFA it should be as a new category (braced pistols)or lumped in with AOWs. In either case, after the "AFT fucked up" amnesty is over, licensing should be $5.  

One reason for doing a new category called "braced pistol" is best is I cannot legally carry an SBR or an AOW on my Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP).

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The point system is a SHAM.. a PUT ON.. it was never meant to ACTUALLY be used.. there's like 4 guns that pass it.. It's there so they can effectively make using braces illegal without outright banning them and turning millions of us into felons over night. Now that it will be in place, and they do this amnesty thing, they'll consider the matter closed and no one would really be buying braces going forward with VERY few edge cases. They want to stop the braces from being an easy SBR and this will do it.

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Correct, which is why a growing number of states have outlawed the ability to do that...  hmmm.


Also - 4473’s by themselves are not a fucking registration, only folks with zero understanding of basic FFL paperwork think it is.  

They certain can become a registration, should ATF decide to come take photos of my files, and every other FFL’s files.  And should I close down my FFL, they now want ALL old 4473’s to be sent to them (used to be able to shred ones older than 20 years).

But until that happens, 4473’s don’t equal a registration.  All they know is that you bought something from the NICS check- and NICS checks at the federal level include no info about the gun except what type of firearm it was.  So they know if you bought a rifle, shotgun, frame, pistol, etc.

State level requirements are different, for example WA basically registers all pistol transfers and semi auto rifle transfers.  I think OR transfers require a lot of info on the firearm, and I would not hold my breath on that info not being kept somewhere after the transfer is approved, regardless of what the law is.  But a basic FBI NICS check, done for a regular old 4473, is not becoming a workable registration scheme very easily or anytime soon (by design of the actual laws in effect).  They just don’t get any relevant info off the 4473 when you call in the NICS check, or do it online.   Don’t know why the hell people can’t understand this....


Also- this brace BS sucks ass.  It will cause problems here, #1 as SBS is not allowed by WA state law, so not sure where TAC-14’s with braces will fall (probably un-registerable).  For AR pistols with braces, folks will lose the ability to easily travel across state lines, and the ability to keep them loaded.  For example my truck gun is an AR pistol, so now I would need to swap it out for a 16” barreled rifle and ensure it is never loaded in the vehicle.  And AOW’s are allowed, what if someone has a brace on one of those already- GTG or ?  What a goddamn mess it will create...

I think now is as good of a time as any for lawsuits challenging NFA to happen- put a big kabosh on this messed up point system BS and ATF’s ever changing opinions on what equals what.  

Any agency which is clearly so incompetent in its actions as ATF, who has shown themselves to be regarding braces, bump stocks, and triggers, clearly is incapable of consistency and accuracy in determining laws or rules.  So shit can them, no more interpreting law for them, since they have shown they are incapable of handling it correctly (and enforcement agencies should never have the ability to make up rules anyhow).

Go for all the marbles legally.  Bruen case gives us the ammo to do it...

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So stuff I want to SBR I just put a brace on, get a free stamp, and then put a stock on it?

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I predict the opposite. At least for ARs.
Makers will produce braces pre-approved at 0 or 1 point.
Add an infinite eye relief red dot and none of the problematic stuff and go.
In two years we won't remember what the panic was about.

Glocks and similar will be screwed.
Give up the brace, register as sbr or ...

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Yes they are.
Now, if they "should" be or not is a different story.

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I predict the opposite. At least for ARs.
Makers will produce braces pre-approved at 0 or 1 point.
Add an infinite eye relief red dot and none of the problematic stuff and go.
In two years we won't remember what the panic was about.

Glocks and similar will be screwed.
Give up the brace, register as sbr or ...

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I cant speak to AR's , can you show me some legal configurations for AR's that pass the point system? Cuz there's so much BS in there i cant imagine it being much more than a buffer tube at this point.

I know for my AK pistol and mp5 clones there's no way anything would pass that system that would be comfortable or desirable to use and i didnt buy those to shoot them one handed.

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Iron sights only designed for rifle use ?

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The points are irrelevant. If aft says it's an SBR, then it is, says the aft.

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This will be a bigger failure than the bump stock ban.

Looks like only 1000 bump stocks were turned in after they were banned...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/oct/6/bump-stock-ban-failure-omen-gun-buyback-plan/

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So they are doing away with being able to "cheek" it?