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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:01:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. Hopefully they do machine guns next. PLEASE let them do machine gun amnesty next. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:07:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This registration drive is a little different. Whether it is used only at face value, or as a basis for further constraints remains to be seen, but the trend is toward less leniency in the future. The offer is gamed so that individual optimization (free & easy) may create a less optimal class (we all hang together) result. Some people think more registered SBRs supports common use & an eventual relaxation of SBRs from the NFA. . People who are against it keep calling it registration meanwhile they are ok with registering their other stuff paying $200 for it. There is no difference, it's still compliance to dumb government rules. My opinion is FATF realized they fucked up with their "opinion" letters on brace usage and the gun buying public took advantage of it. This, again in my opinion, is them trying to put the cat back in the bag and draw a line. Hoping people will comply instead of having to enforce it which I don’t see how they really can now anyways due to the sheer numbers and lack of information to the average gun owner. And I 100% hope this can be used somehow to show common usage numbers to get stuff removed from the NFA after the recent USSC ruling, but not holding breath for that happening in the near future. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:09:03 PM EDT
[#3]
My take on it was that it was their plan all along to do what they’re trying to do now. The left does nothing that doesn’t fit their agenda and goal long term.
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:12:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want to prove your point standing up to big gov rules, why would you be standing there with an EMPTY pistol? Are you going empty because you don't want to break some government rule? ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When this shitstorm all started I asked who would be willing to go stand with me, in front of an ATF office on the day after the amnesty expired, with an empty braced pistol. The answer was resounding silence. There's plenty that will criticize you for it, but the honest truth is that passive non-compliance won't do shit. Everybody wants to try the Ghandi approach, until it's time to actually get arrested. They'll just say shit like, "Should've paid cash", "Shouldn't have put it on a 4473", "I don't use public ranges, you should buy more land". If you want to prove your point standing up to big gov rules, why would you be standing there with an EMPTY pistol? Are you going empty because you don't want to break some government rule? ?? @captexas If it's time to start shooting, then that's something completely different. If you want to influence centrists and those on the right that are not quite ready to move, it would be best to show the evil ATF oppressing a citizen for possessing something that was completely legal 24 hours before. If they had to arrest 50 or a 100 people, that would make an impact. Non-violent protest is the first stage of active non-compliance. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:17:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @captexas If it's time to start shooting, then that's something completely different. If you want to influence centrists and those on the right that are not quite ready to move, it would be best to show the evil ATF oppressing a citizen for possessing something that was completely legal 24 hours before. If they had to arrest 50 or a 100 people, that would make an impact. Non-violent protest is the first stage of active non-compliance. Lol, no where did I talk about shooting. I was calling out your statement about being so brave to go protest with your braced gun in hand without ammo. Why fight one rule about braces but comply with some other rule about not having your gun loaded in public which is why I assumed you stated it would be empty??? |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:26:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Not sure what my plan is, 50/50 I’ll file atf paperwork / take the lowers off the uppers and wait to see how this plays out. Total bullshit either way.
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:28:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hopefully they do machine guns next. PLEASE let them do machine gun amnesty next. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. Hopefully they do machine guns next. PLEASE let them do machine gun amnesty next. Yup, loads of three hole receivers around just waiting for that, well, .0001% before it happens with several million new ones getting “ found” after it kicks off. 
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:33:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, no where did I talk about shooting. I was calling out your statement about being so brave to go protest with your braced gun in hand without ammo. Why fight one rule about braces but comply with some other rule about not having your gun loaded in public which is why I assumed you stated it would be empty??? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @captexas If it's time to start shooting, then that's something completely different. If you want to influence centrists and those on the right that are not quite ready to move, it would be best to show the evil ATF oppressing a citizen for possessing something that was completely legal 24 hours before. If they had to arrest 50 or a 100 people, that would make an impact. Non-violent protest is the first stage of active non-compliance. Lol, no where did I talk about shooting. I was calling out your statement about being so brave to go protest with your braced gun in hand without ammo. Why fight one rule about braces but comply with some other rule about not having your gun loaded in public which is why I assumed you stated it would be empty??? No rules against having a loaded weapon while open carrying here. It just reduces the chance, even slightly, of getting shot. The goal is to show them for the JBT's they are, not die as a martyr for the cause. I don't think that we're that far yet, either. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:37:21 PM EDT
[#9]
I know what forbearance means. I'm not interested in paying the tax later. So I'll either have a AR pistol without a brace, or SBR it on a form 1 later.
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:38:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Before registering I couldn't legally put a stock on my glock. Now I can carry a glock with a folding stock everywhere I go. Dance and sing about being a non-compliant patriot or whatever, but I got mine. I'm already on countless lists. Various agencies and governmental groups have my fingerprints and access to much of my gun owning history. All the fuss is odd to me since I've gone through similar process for suppressors and other items. I didn't want this ruling, but here it is and the fact is that being non-compliant is a social justice warrior move, it won't change anything in the law. If you want to fight it, contribute money to a legal group, but all the worry about fib agents and aft agents storming your house because you signed a paper claiming you had an illegal sbr(not what's on the forms btw) is BS I'm on countless lists but I won't make the acronym (as) searchable. 
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:24:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, loads of three hole receivers around just waiting for that, well, .0001% before it happens with several million new ones getting “ found” after it kicks off. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. Hopefully they do machine guns next. PLEASE let them do machine gun amnesty next. Yup, loads of three hole receivers around just waiting for that, well, .0001% before it happens with several million new ones getting “ found” after it kicks off. FRT may be an avenue. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:49:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Somewhere, in an office far, far away, there is an ATF accountant that is saying, “I told you it would work. 200 bucks a pop. Give it three or four years and then drop the hammer. We never would’ve got that money, no way, no how. This is gravy. I told you we needed the wider net.”
ETA: Make some examples, treat them as confessions. Baa… |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 10:00:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we'll win this battle. Just not in the short time frame everyone here wants. Several years from now the courts will toss their brace rules. If we get lucky the courts will remove SBR's from the NFA. Unfortunately that is a much longer shot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Which is exactly why we'll lose. Several years from now the courts will toss their brace rules. If we get lucky the courts will remove SBR's from the NFA. Unfortunately that is a much longer shot. This is spot on in my opinion. And why the best option is to donate to the organizations suing. The real loss here, if this bullshit stands, are not the current owners of pistols. We have them already, and most have options to continue owning or using them in ways similar to what they were doing. It sucks, but it only gets worse than that. The real people losing their rights is all the future generations who will never get to buy them to start with. Many of us agree that a short AR is the best HD gun. And who mostly can't afford or won't navigate the nfa bullshit? Or won't even see or know about them, if they become less ubiquitous? Poor people who really need HD in the trailer park or ghetto. Single mothers and old folks. I've seen quite a few older folks and women shooting AR pistols and PCC at the range. If this rule stands for a prolonged time, we lose that, and that's a major setback for freedom. It's a real kick in the nuts to the ..."Samuel Colt made them equal" concept. There's no reason this should continue for too long. The next time the R's own Congress, they could pass a law to end it. The next R President could end it with a phone call or pen stroke. And yes, the Judiciary could end it before we get the chance at either of those. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 10:03:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People who are against it keep calling it registration meanwhile they are ok with registering their other stuff paying $200 for it. There is no difference, it's still compliance to dumb government rules. My opinion is FATF realized they fucked up with their "opinion" letters on brace usage and the gun buying public took advantage of it. This, again in my opinion, is them trying to put the cat back in the bag and draw a line. Hoping people will comply instead of having to enforce it which I don’t see how they really can now anyways due to the sheer numbers and lack of information to the average gun owner. And I 100% hope this can be used somehow to show common usage numbers to get stuff removed from the NFA after the recent USSC ruling, but not holding breath for that happening in the near future. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This registration drive is a little different. Whether it is used only at face value, or as a basis for further constraints remains to be seen, but the trend is toward less leniency in the future. The offer is gamed so that individual optimization (free & easy) may create a less optimal class (we all hang together) result. Some people think more registered SBRs supports common use & an eventual relaxation of SBRs from the NFA. . People who are against it keep calling it registration meanwhile they are ok with registering their other stuff paying $200 for it. There is no difference, it's still compliance to dumb government rules. My opinion is FATF realized they fucked up with their "opinion" letters on brace usage and the gun buying public took advantage of it. This, again in my opinion, is them trying to put the cat back in the bag and draw a line. Hoping people will comply instead of having to enforce it which I don’t see how they really can now anyways due to the sheer numbers and lack of information to the average gun owner. And I 100% hope this can be used somehow to show common usage numbers to get stuff removed from the NFA after the recent USSC ruling, but not holding breath for that happening in the near future. It's about expanding NFA and stopping future sales. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 10:04:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People who are against it keep calling it registration meanwhile they are ok with registering their other stuff paying $200 for it. There is no difference, it's still compliance to dumb government rules. My opinion is FATF realized they fucked up with their "opinion" letters on brace usage and the gun buying public took advantage of it. This, again in my opinion, is them trying to put the cat back in the bag and draw a line. Hoping people will comply instead of having to enforce it which I don’t see how they really can now anyways due to the sheer numbers and lack of information to the average gun owner. And I 100% hope this can be used somehow to show common usage numbers to get stuff removed from the NFA after the recent USSC ruling, but not holding breath for that happening in the near future. The difference is it’s conditional approval and an operant conditioning exercise with different scale and incentives than prior prisoner’s dilemmas. How we see it is irrelevant to the utility it provides the rules shapers. It wasn’t created to accrue to the benefits of gun owners or long term growth of the Second Amendment. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 10:26:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we'll win this battle. Just not in the short time frame everyone here wants. Several years from now the courts will toss their brace rules. If we get lucky the courts will remove SBR's from the NFA. Unfortunately that is a much longer shot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Which is exactly why we'll lose. Several years from now the courts will toss their brace rules. If we get lucky the courts will remove SBR's from the NFA. Unfortunately that is a much longer shot. Definitely won’t be a quick fix. In the mean time, increasing SBR numbers and usage helps prove they’ve been wrong about SBRs all along. They even contradict themselves. Heller thus made clear that machineguns and short-barreled shotguns are ‘‘weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes,’’ and thus fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment as historically understood. Congress placed stricter requirements on the making and possession of short- barreled rifles, deeming them to be dangerous and unusual weapons and posing a significant danger to the public, as discussed below. As for reducing the ability for self- defense, the Department disagrees. There are various firearms that are available for self-defense under the GCA and will continue to be available. Furthermore, this rule does not ban the use of firearms with an attached ‘‘stabilizing brace.’’ Individuals can and will continue to be able to use such firearms for personal defense. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 12:30:02 PM EDT
[#17]
The Last Ditch Effort to Stop ATF's Pistol Brace Rule
 The Last Ditch Effort to Stop ATF's Pistol Brace Rule |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 2:41:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The free candy in this case is a "free" stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There's a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. Quote HistoryQuoted: The free candy in this case is a "free" stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There's a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. The only difference is time. This was done exactly the same way in the 1990s with 3 specific models of shotguns (except they did not call it a "tax forbearance".) They just called it a "registration period" without any payment of tax. This period lasted until May 2001. Same options though: free Form 1, destruction, surrender to ATF, or disassemble so it wouldn't meet the definition. In the case of these So I'm not sure what kind of significant difference you think you're witnessing. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they'll gladly register their guns for a "free" stamp. Go way back to 1934 when this NFA bullshit first happened. There were people who registered their existing stuff (that they already owned) back then, even though it cost them $200 per firearm. That'd be like paying $4,500 for a stamp today. People still did it. Had they waived the Form 1 tax for existing firearms, I'm sure there would have been even more registrations. There were a shitload of MG registrations happening in 1986 because people knew the deadline to register was coming in May of that year. Some of them were private citizens who paid the $200 per firearm to register on Form 1. Manufacturers registered guns that weren't even finished yet. This was, ironically, a time when registrants hoped the ATF would consider their (80%?) unfinished receiver to be a machine gun. Quoted: What state are you in....because that may or may not be correct. Your Glock with a folder stock is not a pistol, it is an SBR. So unless you can carry a loaded RIFLE with you (and I'm not aware of any CCW laws that let you conceal a RIFLE), you would still have to remove the stock/brace to conceal it. I can carry concealed NFA firearms in my state, but I don't think every citizen can. Only Title I handguns are covered by our concealed handgun permit. I wish they'd go ahead and pass constitutional carry like our neighboring states. Our stupid governor vetoed it.  That is what is being missed by so many people. If you want pistol "rules", you still have to have it in a pistol configuration. That means no braces OR stocks, even if you registered it. Brace = stock now. Registered or not. Quoted: That is the biggest pile of bullshit that keeps getting posted in this thread. LEARN TO READ FOR YOURSELF What you posted is complete bullshit fear mongering and anyone that keeps posting it should be ignored. It's 98 pages, but it pretty clearly lays out the background and the fact they are changing what they have previously said. There are three avenues that you can go, pick one to stay within the law, it doesn't matter, as long as you do one of them. There's no reasonable way they can come after you for following the guidance they are giving. There's some pretty intense paranoia surrounding this topic. Nobody is coming after those who comply. (Well, not for the rules they're complying with anyway). It'd have to be for something else. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:16:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, so they learned nothing from millions of registered SBRs and suppressors that were offered by dangling a $200 stamp in exchange? But hey I'm edgy because I didn't cave to this brace rule while I cave to hundreds of other federal rules/laws 24/7/365.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. Lol, so they learned nothing from millions of registered SBRs and suppressors that were offered by dangling a $200 stamp in exchange? But hey I'm edgy because I didn't cave to this brace rule while I cave to hundreds of other federal rules/laws 24/7/365.. Apples and oranges…this is registration by reclassification of non-NFA firearms into NFA firearms. If you can’t see the difference I doubt I could explain it in small enough words for you to understand. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:17:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hopefully they do machine guns next. PLEASE let them do machine gun amnesty next. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. Hopefully they do machine guns next. PLEASE let them do machine gun amnesty next. People keep calling this an amnesty…it’s not. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:09:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People keep calling this an amnesty…it’s not. It's a Tarp! Just like Patriot Front. Or Russia Russia Russia. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:32:59 PM EDT
[#22]
ATF has replied to the FPC's attempt to get the 5th Circuit to intervene before the deadline.
Files are here, see the 5-19 filing from the government and 5-17 filing from the FPC. Kharn |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:42:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People keep calling this an amnesty…it’s not. You're correct. There is nothing good by taking the free stamp. I have three AR pistols, all three were submitted for form 1 two weeks ago. I planned to SBR two of them before all this mess. However, I did not go through the free route, I bought the three stamps and got the rifles engraved. Yes, this new rule pushed me to SBR the two I was going to early, but I shoot all of my guns often publicly and wanted to stay in legal in that respect. I don't want any part of being on that AR pistol registration. This thing will be shot down I believe, eventually, and I was hoping something would have happened by now. 87+% of AR pistol owners have no clue of this rule I'd bet. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:54:35 PM EDT
[#24]
 HUGE Coalition Effort to Stop The Brace Ban! |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 7:04:34 PM EDT
[#25]
If I owned a legal SBR I would be tempted to put a brace on it and take it to a public range just to see how many people get triggered.
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Posted: 5/19/2023 7:27:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I owned a legal SBR I would be tempted to put a brace on it and take it to a public range just to see how many people get triggered. That’s definitely my plan. I’ve had SBRs since before braces were a thing, but a few hosts benefitted from brace configuration. Some of those can be cheek pistols, some re-habilitated to ultra-now compliance hall monitor grade inoffensiveness. I’ve already got god-awful-concussive muzzle brakes on stupid short flash bang uppers ready for the range Nazis to take notice. And the tiniest little tax form copies. How can you have any pudding, if you don’t eat your meat? |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 9:06:44 PM EDT
[#27]
 CLYDE: House to Block ATF's Unconstitutional Pistol Brace Rule |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 10:43:16 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryDisagree within the first few seconds The ATF is not informing law abiding gun owners. They are requiring gun owners to keep up with their saga of flip flopping rules to know whether the gun they bought yesterday is illegal today. This point should be driven home harder than it is. Along with the fact they are trying to add to/create a larger registry |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 10:50:32 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @fox2008 The only difference is time. This was done exactly the same way in the 1990s with 3 specific models of shotguns (except they did not call it a "tax forbearance".) They just called it a "registration period" without any payment of tax. This period lasted until May 2001. Same options though: free Form 1, destruction, surrender to ATF, or disassemble so it wouldn't meet the definition. In the case of these So I'm not sure what kind of significant difference you think you're witnessing. It has already been proven. Go way back to 1934 when this NFA bullshit first happened. There were people who registered their existing stuff (that they already owned) back then, even though it cost them $200 per firearm. That'd be like paying $4,500 for a stamp today. People still did it. Had they waived the Form 1 tax for existing firearms, I'm sure there would have been even more registrations. There were a shitload of MG registrations happening in 1986 because people knew the deadline to register was coming in May of that year. Some of them were private citizens who paid the $200 per firearm to register on Form 1. Manufacturers registered guns that weren't even finished yet. This was, ironically, a time when registrants hoped the ATF would consider their (80%?) unfinished receiver to be a machine gun. @panthermark I can carry concealed NFA firearms in my state, but I don't think every citizen can. Only Title I handguns are covered by our concealed handgun permit. I wish they'd go ahead and pass constitutional carry like our neighboring states. Our stupid governor vetoed it. You're right. Most people don't seem to grasp that. Brace = stock now. Registered or not. Yeah, this. There's some pretty intense paranoia surrounding this topic. Nobody is coming after those who comply. (Well, not for the rules they're complying with anyway). It'd have to be for something else. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The free candy in this case is a "free" stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There's a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. The only difference is time. This was done exactly the same way in the 1990s with 3 specific models of shotguns (except they did not call it a "tax forbearance".) They just called it a "registration period" without any payment of tax. This period lasted until May 2001. Same options though: free Form 1, destruction, surrender to ATF, or disassemble so it wouldn't meet the definition. In the case of these So I'm not sure what kind of significant difference you think you're witnessing. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they'll gladly register their guns for a "free" stamp. Go way back to 1934 when this NFA bullshit first happened. There were people who registered their existing stuff (that they already owned) back then, even though it cost them $200 per firearm. That'd be like paying $4,500 for a stamp today. People still did it. Had they waived the Form 1 tax for existing firearms, I'm sure there would have been even more registrations. There were a shitload of MG registrations happening in 1986 because people knew the deadline to register was coming in May of that year. Some of them were private citizens who paid the $200 per firearm to register on Form 1. Manufacturers registered guns that weren't even finished yet. This was, ironically, a time when registrants hoped the ATF would consider their (80%?) unfinished receiver to be a machine gun. Quoted: What state are you in....because that may or may not be correct. Your Glock with a folder stock is not a pistol, it is an SBR. So unless you can carry a loaded RIFLE with you (and I'm not aware of any CCW laws that let you conceal a RIFLE), you would still have to remove the stock/brace to conceal it. I can carry concealed NFA firearms in my state, but I don't think every citizen can. Only Title I handguns are covered by our concealed handgun permit. I wish they'd go ahead and pass constitutional carry like our neighboring states. Our stupid governor vetoed it. That is what is being missed by so many people. If you want pistol "rules", you still have to have it in a pistol configuration. That means no braces OR stocks, even if you registered it. Brace = stock now. Registered or not. Quoted: That is the biggest pile of bullshit that keeps getting posted in this thread. LEARN TO READ FOR YOURSELF What you posted is complete bullshit fear mongering and anyone that keeps posting it should be ignored. It's 98 pages, but it pretty clearly lays out the background and the fact they are changing what they have previously said. There are three avenues that you can go, pick one to stay within the law, it doesn't matter, as long as you do one of them. There's no reasonable way they can come after you for following the guidance they are giving. There's some pretty intense paranoia surrounding this topic. Nobody is coming after those who comply. (Well, not for the rules they're complying with anyway). It'd have to be for something else. 26 USC 5848: (a) General rule No information or evidence obtained from an application, registration, or records required to be submitted or retained by a natural person in order to comply with any provision of this chapter or regulations issued thereunder, shall, except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, be used, directly or indirectly, as evidence against that person in a criminal proceeding with respect to a violation of law occurring prior to or concurrently with the filing of the application or registration, or the compiling of the records containing the information or evidence. (b) Furnishing false information Subsection (a) of this section shall not preclude the use of any such information or evidence in a prosecution or other action under any applicable provision of law with respect to the furnishing of false information. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 10:57:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any progress on the court cases? Not to my knowledge. I do not believe there will be a chance for an injunction before June 1. Just my opinion. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 11:04:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s politics unfortunately. Biden ran with the campaign goal of adding assault weapons to the NFA for years. This pistol brace rule is him delivering on it and getting what they call assault weapons into the Registry. I 100% agree that it’ll be used in the future. I agree because this isn’t their first time doing it, not even the tenth time. Not a new thing in this century or the last either. They have a well documented history of allowing stuff then reversing their decision. Shitty situation all around, really. I can’t fault anyone for the level of compliance they feel right. Whether it’s putting a longer barrel on, remove/destroy brace, Free Form 1, Paid Form 1. I waited as long as I felt comfortable waiting for the injunction. I ended up registering my SIG Rattler and it will truly become an SBR when I install the folding aluminum stock on it this weekend. IMHO, this is the first step towards them requiring ALL AR platform rifles to be registered as NFA items. I hope I am wrong on this. But I am betting that I am not. Fuck the ATF and FJB! My legally purchased braced pistol is now a SBR and registered as such:  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 1:38:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I waited as long as I felt comfortable waiting for the injunction. I ended up registering my SIG Rattler and it will truly become an SBR when I install the folding aluminum stock on it this weekend. IMHO, this is the first step towards them requiring ALL AR platform rifles to be registered as NFA items. I hope I am wrong on this. But I am betting that I am not. Oof. Yes, that is the direction they're pushing. They thank you for your contribution to the voluntary registration #'s though, it will help them with that goal. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:14:43 PM EDT
[#33]
They will do all “assault rifles” if they pull this one off. This is a test.
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:23:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They will do all “assault rifles” if they pull this one off. This is a test. Agree ??% |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:36:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agree ??% Then why help them by taking part? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:41:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote History |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:41:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then why help them by taking part? Because I prefer not being the Left’s poster boy of a white supremacist with a unregistered SBR. Then having to go through the cost of defending myself in their kangaroo court with no chance of winning. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:05:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because I prefer not being the Left’s poster boy of a white supremacist with a unregistered SBR. Then having to go through the cost of defending myself in their kangaroo court with no chance of winning. Being white and owning a Registered SBR still means you are a White Supremacist. That will never change. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:11:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being white and owning a Registered SBR still means you are a White Supremacist. That will never change. LMFAO! So true. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:13:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They will do all "assault rifles" if they pull this one off. This is a test. Dems would pass a law banning braces if they could, fortunately they can't get the votes. So they're hoping they can call them SBR's and not get struck down by the courts. I think ATF will lose that argument in time. It will take several years to go up through the courts. Bumpstocks were banned years ago and it was just earlier this year the 5th circuit finally said that bumpstocks aren't machineguns. Now the ATF had appealed to the supreme court, so maybe we'll the the supreme court take it. The brace ban will probably take three to five years to get through the courts. ATF has a decent chance of loosing those court cases. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:18:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to my knowledge. I do not believe there will be a chance for an injunction before June 1. Just my opinion. Latest news is a hail mary emergency(because of 'amnesty' expiration) appeal in the only case that got far enough to be denied. Nolo's case has been pushed out several time and won't even meet until june. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:23:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Latest news is a hail mary emergency(because of 'amnesty' expiration) appeal in the only case that got far enough to be denied. Nolo's case has been pushed out several time and won't even meet until june. The Hail Mary emergency appeal does not sound very promising at this point! |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:26:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I waited as long as I felt comfortable waiting for the injunction. I ended up registering my SIG Rattler and it will truly become an SBR when I install the folding aluminum stock on it this weekend. IMHO, this is the first step towards them requiring ALL AR platform rifles to be registered as NFA items. I hope I am wrong on this. But I am betting that I am not. Fuck the ATF and FJB! My legally purchased braced pistol is now a SBR and registered as such: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581885/IMG_0667_jpeg-2822991.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581885/IMG_0668_jpeg-2822993.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s politics unfortunately. Biden ran with the campaign goal of adding assault weapons to the NFA for years. This pistol brace rule is him delivering on it and getting what they call assault weapons into the Registry. I 100% agree that it’ll be used in the future. I agree because this isn’t their first time doing it, not even the tenth time. Not a new thing in this century or the last either. They have a well documented history of allowing stuff then reversing their decision. Shitty situation all around, really. I can’t fault anyone for the level of compliance they feel right. Whether it’s putting a longer barrel on, remove/destroy brace, Free Form 1, Paid Form 1. I waited as long as I felt comfortable waiting for the injunction. I ended up registering my SIG Rattler and it will truly become an SBR when I install the folding aluminum stock on it this weekend. IMHO, this is the first step towards them requiring ALL AR platform rifles to be registered as NFA items. I hope I am wrong on this. But I am betting that I am not. Fuck the ATF and FJB! My legally purchased braced pistol is now a SBR and registered as such: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581885/IMG_0667_jpeg-2822991.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581885/IMG_0668_jpeg-2822993.JPG Did you get approval back already? Do you know there is a clear faq saying a stock can go on after approval but not before? I don't care what you do, just don't want you to do it because you missed that. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:32:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which law are they going to twist to turn 16" AR's into NFA weapons? Dems would pass a law banning braces if they could, fortunately they can't get the votes. So they're hoping they can call them SBR's and not get struck down by the courts. I think ATF will lose that argument in time. It will take several years to go up through the courts. Bumpstocks were banned years ago and it was just earlier this year the 5th circuit finally said that bumpstocks aren't machineguns. Now the ATF had appealed to the supreme court, so maybe we'll the the supreme court take it. The brace ban will probably take three to five years to get through the courts. ATF has a decent chance of loosing those court cases. Stocks are machine guns. Shoe strings are machine guns. What’s to stop them from saying your lower isn’t a machine gun? This is all part of a bigger scheme. It always is. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:37:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I owned a legal SBR I would be tempted to put a brace on it and take it to a public range just to see how many people get triggered. I have an SBR but no brace, send me one and I’ll put it on.
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:42:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is the biggest pile of bullshit that keeps getting posted in this thread. LEARN TO READ FOR YOURSELF What you posted is complete bullshit fear mongering and anyone that keeps posting it should be ignored. It's 98 pages, but it pretty clearly lays out the background and the fact they are changing what they have previously said. There are three avenues that you can go, pick one to stay within the law, it doesn't matter, as long as you do one of them. There's no reasonable way they can come after you for following the guidance they are giving. Put me on ignore I don't give a fuck 
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Posted: 5/20/2023 5:53:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They will do all “assault rifles” if they pull this one off. This is a test. This There are compliance options other than registration |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:19:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you get approval back already? Do you know there is a clear faq saying a stock can go on after approval but not before? I don't care what you do, just don't want you to do it because you missed that. I got my eForm 1 approval on Thursday. Just a tad bit over a month. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:52:07 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stocks are machine guns. Shoe strings are machine guns. What's to stop them from saying your lower isn't a machine gun? This is all part of a bigger scheme. It always is.  Declare all AR15's machineguns and we'll probably get a preliminary injuction stopping them. Our odds of winning that battle are far higher than bumpstocks and braced guns and I feel fairly rosy about our odds in court on the brace issue. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 8:17:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guess they'll have to come collect all our machineguns Declare all AR15's machineguns and we'll probably get a preliminary injuction stopping them. Our odds of winning that battle are far higher than bumpstocks and braced guns and I feel fairly rosy about our odds in court on the brace issue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Stocks are machine guns. Shoe strings are machine guns. What's to stop them from saying your lower isn't a machine gun? This is all part of a bigger scheme. It always is. Declare all AR15's machineguns and we'll probably get a preliminary injuction stopping them. Our odds of winning that battle are far higher than bumpstocks and braced guns and I feel fairly rosy about our odds in court on the brace issue. The more full retard they go, the better our chances. I loved the ATF's latest filing saying that they will determine if your braced firearm is a pistol or SBR, if you pay the tax and submit the firearm. Then you can sue for your $200 back, as Thompson Center did in the 90s and won at the Supreme Court (to determine if a kit with a receiver, pistol grip, rifle stock, less than 16" barrel, and greater than 16" barrel was an SBR or not, SCOTUS said it wasn't because it was an ambiguous criminal law and thus read in the citizen's favor vs state's). ATF ignores that $200 was big money in 1934, and is still a third the price of many PSA braced guns.  ATF's filing:  Attached FileKharn |
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