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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:11:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm almot positive some of these are troll accounts set up to further the divide between LE and the public... because all he is doing is making LE look worse by trying to defend it. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:12:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do some people on this thread seem to think that apartment walls perfectly transmit sound? He wasn't standing on the other side of the door when the policeman knocked and announced. He was in another room on a phone call. It is unlikely he understood a word the cop said. Well my understanding is, the deputy’s body camera picked up the airman saying something to the effect ‘police’ after the deputy announced. So, the deputy believed his presence as the police was acknowledged before the airman opened the door. Now, some posters have said, well except for that, how can it be shown the airman knew it was the police at his door? There is the peep hole, but the deputy is moving about. Most peep holes have a fish eye lens that would have seen the deputy in uniform. But you’ll have posters believe it may have been a cheap one, couldn’t see out it, or maybe the airman never looked. Then there is of course the usual disconnect with this incident, where posters will conflate them being at a firearms range, and there was a policeman there and that policeman did not shoot dead everyone holding a gun, so therefore the deputy murdered the airman. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:16:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well my understanding is, the deputy’s body camera picked up the airman saying something to the effect ‘police’ after the deputy announced. So, the deputy believed his presence as the police was acknowledged before the airman opened the door. Now, some posters have said, well except for that, how can it be shown the airman knew it was the police at his door? There is the peep hole, but the deputy is moving about. Most peep holes have a fish eye lens that would have seen the deputy in uniform. But you’ll have posters believe it may have been a cheap one, couldn’t see out it, or maybe the airman never looked. Then there is of course the usual disconnect with this incident, where posters will conflate them being at a firearms range, and there was a policeman there and that policeman did not shoot dead everyone holding a gun, so therefore the deputy murdered the airman. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why do some people on this thread seem to think that apartment walls perfectly transmit sound? He wasn't standing on the other side of the door when the policeman knocked and announced. He was in another room on a phone call. It is unlikely he understood a word the cop said. Well my understanding is, the deputy’s body camera picked up the airman saying something to the effect ‘police’ after the deputy announced. So, the deputy believed his presence as the police was acknowledged before the airman opened the door. Now, some posters have said, well except for that, how can it be shown the airman knew it was the police at his door? There is the peep hole, but the deputy is moving about. Most peep holes have a fish eye lens that would have seen the deputy in uniform. But you’ll have posters believe it may have been a cheap one, couldn’t see out it, or maybe the airman never looked. Then there is of course the usual disconnect with this incident, where posters will conflate them being at a firearms range, and there was a policeman there and that policeman did not shoot dead everyone holding a gun, so therefore the deputy murdered the airman. When do you hear that on the body camera video? |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:18:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well my understanding is, the deputy’s body camera picked up the airman saying something to the effect ‘police’ after the deputy announced. So, the deputy believed his presence as the police was acknowledged before the airman opened the door. Now, some posters have said, well except for that, how can it be shown the airman knew it was the police at his door? There is the peep hole, but the deputy is moving about. Most peep holes have a fish eye lens that would have seen the deputy in uniform. But you’ll have posters believe it may have been a cheap one, couldn’t see out it, or maybe the airman never looked. Then there is of course the usual disconnect with this incident, where posters will conflate them being at a firearms range, and there was a policeman there and that policeman did not shoot dead everyone holding a gun, so therefore the deputy murdered the airman. Peephole on my door wouldn't allow me to see a person where the deputy was standing. At best I might see his foot. Verified it a couple of times. I'm sure the legal teams for both sides are already testing that at his door. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:19:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When do you hear that on the body camera video? He doesn't |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:20:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How would he know it was a cop? The cop was hiding from view. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I agree this was handled all wrong and probably cost a good man his life. But let's use some common sense that apparently seems to be lacking. In today's environment of shootings, it seems that a certain group of people that is displayed nonstop in the news every day. LEOs are now getting ambushed, etc. If there was someone pounding on my door announcing LE and I were to look through a peep hole and see it was a uniform LEO beating on my door. I sane person given today's environment most certainly would not answer the door holding a gun in their hands. You are a fool if you do that. Yes, it may be legal to do. Yes, it may be your right to do that. But come on, what kind of idoit does it. You've got a cop pounding on your door announcing he's a cop. You look through a peep hole and see that it's a cop. But let's answer the door with a gun in my hand. Yes, it's legal. Yes, you are not acting threatening. Yes, it's your home and so forth. But let's go back to that common sense thing. Cops it seems, are being targeted lately, and they are wounded up tight today. I'm most certainly not condoning what happened. But come on, even if it is legal who the fuck with an ounce of common sense would answer that door holding a gun in your hand. I seem to remember a phrase growing up that went. Just because it's legal doesn't mean you should you do it. Because it's stupid. How many here honestly would answer a door that LE is at holding a gun in your hand surprising that cop. I most certainly wouldn't, and I don't care how legal it is, and i seriously doubt most everyone here would not do it. With the exception of the Johnny bad asses here saying they would fuck the cops it's legal. Yeah keep telling yourself that and then do it. Then some probably have done it. Do it today under the present environment. That said, I'm guilty of answering my door with an FBI agent and plain cloths sheriff's detective. I had no idea who they were. They did not announce police. But I kept my armed hand behind the door where they could not see it. Once I verified who they were and had put the gun on the table. I let them in. I did notice the detective unsnap his holster  , and I did tell them there was a gun on that table. They were there to question me about a bank robbery. Some asshole called crime stoppers and said it looked like me. Fortunately, I was in hospital having surgery at the time of the robbery. But what do you guys think would have happened to me if I'd answered that door swung it open, standing there with a gun in my hand of a suspected bank robber. I'd probably not be posting this today. I used a bit of common sense, knowing you just don't answer a door with LE holding a gun. Even if it is legal and I have a right to do so. I'm not stupid enough to do it. But even though the young man did and had the right to do so. He did not use his head and most certainly used common sense in doing so. It is all so easy to arm chair quarterback these things. Honestly, if I were a Leo. I do not know how I'd handled this same situation in today's environment. I feel bad for the loss of probably a fine young man. Plus, that person that said if he, a friend, and his son, along with their dog, were out shooting on their property that under what's being discussed here. That the Leo if responding to a complaint of them shooting. That officer could just shoot them all for holding a gun in their hands. Be fucking real and stop acting stupid. That's a totally different scenario. Officer is not surprised and knows well in advance you are armed. I've had that happen to me. We saw officer coming and unloaded weapons and sit them down. It's called common sense. Yes we didn't have to do it. But I promise you. That'd been the first thing officer would have told us to do. Airman was a dumbass. He knew who was at the door and surprised officer by answering the door holding a gun in his hand. I don't care if it was legal or not he was absolutely stupid. As far as what should happen next. That's up to the prosecutors. If it went to a jury trial and I was on the jury. I do not know what I'd do. If it were my family, that he killed. I'd want to burn that cop. I don't know it's a tough position to be in. My condolences to the family Do you honestly believe, if he knew it was LE at the door, that he would have opened it with a gun in hand? That makes ZERO sense... and him not knowing it was LE is backed up by the person he was on the phone with. Did you watch the video. Unless he was deaf he knew it was a cop. Stop it with your bs twisting of events. Goddammit you people don't quit with your BS. I'm done with this dumbass post and the stupid posts. Even I could have heard that officer through the door, Unsubscribed How would he know it was a cop? The cop was hiding from view. And for those saying the officer had nowhere to go, he certainly had somewhere to go the first 2 times he pounded on the door. Is that apartment landing an airlock? Did opening the apartment door seal off the area to the deputies right? No one would take issue if he had drawn and moved off the X while assessing the threat - BEFORE dumping 6 rounds. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:26:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There you go again, testifying what the victim "knew". We don't know what he knew and when. Only that the deputy eventually hollered "sheriff's office" a couple times while pounding on the door and demanding he open it. And GD is saying that in the face of a direct order to open the door, it's incumbent upon the surprised resident to stop and consider all the ramifications of obeying the order. And in countless other situations, LE will claim you are noncompliant and use it as an excuse for use of force if you merely pause for a few seconds to think about the order instead of immediately obeying the order in precisely the fashion LE wants it obeyed. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:30:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When do you hear that on the body camera video? |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:30:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well my understanding is, the deputy’s body camera picked up the airman saying something to the effect ‘police’ after the deputy announced. I believe the Sheriff's Department captioned that video (unintelligible...police...unintelligible) before the deputy ever announced. And the fact that I and many others detect no intelligible speech from the apartment leads me to think the Sheriff's Department made the whole thing up. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:35:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And GD is saying that in the face of a direct order to open the door, it's incumbent upon the surprised resident to stop and consider all the ramifications of obeying the order. And in countless other situations, LE will claim you are noncompliant and use it as an excuse for use of force if you merely pause for a few seconds to think about the order instead of immediately obeying the order in precisely the fashion LE wants it obeyed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There you go again, testifying what the victim "knew". We don't know what he knew and when. Only that the deputy eventually hollered "sheriff's office" a couple times while pounding on the door and demanding he open it. And GD is saying that in the face of a direct order to open the door, it's incumbent upon the surprised resident to stop and consider all the ramifications of obeying the order. And in countless other situations, LE will claim you are noncompliant and use it as an excuse for use of force if you merely pause for a few seconds to think about the order instead of immediately obeying the order in precisely the fashion LE wants it obeyed. Something to think about when reading reports. Interesting what kind of language games can be played to cover their asses. Move to fast? Dangerous. Move too slow? Resisting. Asking questions? Suspicious. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:42:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately that's no longer a fair question, because OCSO captioned it. The only word they want you to understand is "police". Anyone who's done transcription (or captioning) for a living knows that interpreting garbled speech is extremely difficult and highly susceptible to pre-conceptions. If I ask someone else, "Do you hear 'Hercules' here?" Chances are high they'll hear 'Hercules' if it's even remotely close. In this case, they told you he says "police", when in reality we can't be sure what he actually says - at least not from this recording. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When do you hear that on the body camera video? I understand that. People often hear what they want to hear. I'd still like to hear it. I didn't notice it when I watched the video and this is the first I'm hearing about it. I'm wondering if someone has the time-stamp so I can hear it for myself. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:53:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well my understanding is, the deputy’s body camera picked up the airman saying something to the effect ‘police’ after the deputy announced. So, the deputy believed his presence as the police was acknowledged before the airman opened the door. Now, some posters have said, well except for that, how can it be shown the airman knew it was the police at his door? There is the peep hole, but the deputy is moving about. Most peep holes have a fish eye lens that would have seen the deputy in uniform. But you’ll have posters believe it may have been a cheap one, couldn’t see out it, or maybe the airman never looked. Then there is of course the usual disconnect with this incident, where posters will conflate them being at a firearms range, and there was a policeman there and that policeman did not shoot dead everyone holding a gun, so therefore the deputy murdered the airman. The videos caption has "police" so he must have known! 
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Posted: 5/16/2024 2:13:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Imagine where we'd be if there was no Body Cam footage?
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Posted: 5/16/2024 2:17:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand that. People often hear what they want to hear. I'd still like to hear it. I didn't notice it when I watched the video and this is the first I'm hearing about it. I'm wondering if someone has the time-stamp so I can hear it for myself. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 3:15:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, for sure. And I would encourage anyone to listen for themselves, but by now most people will already be listening for THAT word, which makes an objective evaluation very difficult. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I understand that. People often hear what they want to hear. I'd still like to hear it. I didn't notice it when I watched the video and this is the first I'm hearing about it. I'm wondering if someone has the time-stamp so I can hear it for myself. I just rewatched it several times. There's no way to tell what's being said. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 3:18:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The videos caption has "police" so he must have known! He probably said "I need to call the police" being in okaloosa county, I'll think about it a few times before I call the cops. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 3:32:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just rewatched it several times. There's no way to tell what's being said. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 3:34:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it isn't normal or expected. I would feel threatened and expect the same from anyone else. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Seeing someone answering their door with a gun in their hand when you make what you KNOW is unexpected presence at their home is par for the course. I don't know where you live, but if you genuinely think that, you need to be aware that it is normal in some places that when you present yourself as unknown and unexpected at someone's door, you can expect and armed person behind that door. In some of those places, if you did what this officer did, the grandparents might find you and do the same wrong to you that you did to their family member. This is how blood feuds kick off. It's a basic rule: act like a threat, expect to be treated like a threat. Yes, you would feel threatened. No, given what the video shows, you would NOT be right to instantly escalate to the use of deadly force merely at the sight of someone holding a gun *in a situation where a reasonable person would expect to see that.* Basically - people need to straighten their heads out about being around others who are in posession and active control of deadly force capable tools. We routinely do this with vehicles, and reasonable people think you are a threat to society and that you belong in a paddy room if you treat the mere posession and control of driving a car the same way this officer did. Ditto pretty much any yard implement. This is why it's critical to teach people the difference between "saw a deadly threat tool" vs "saw a meaningful show of intent to use it on me." This video is a quick way to find out who the chickens are and who the people who are who would have fear but train and try to not react like a murderous coward. When we won't apply a standard everywhere equally that it would apply, we're showing that the standard isn't our standard. A decent mental exercise - If you were at a range and saw someone walking up behind you to his lane with his gun down and away like that, hand up in the same way, would you have considered it justified to have shot the person? Quoted: Quoted: I've seen a few mention that the cop didn't have time to stop his actions when the Airman raised his hand. Can't that go both ways, like when cops are yelling conflicting commands or when they yell drop the gun "bang bang". Again, apply your standards equally. Don't cherry pick. The mere presence of the gun in the hand combined with the situation and the way he was acting did not present a deadly imminent threat. If you try and argue that it is, we'll come up with viable situations that fit the same standards where you would look like a moron for coming to the same conclusion. Quoted: I pointed out the reaction time problem because of the posts falsely claiming that since Fortson's hand was up that he couldn't be shot. Quoted: He made the 'split second decision' to escalate from a guy opening his door to deadly force, then tried to make it look good by giving an order when he had no intention of not shooting if the order were complied with. When he ends up in court, his attorney will treat that last part as a win-win. Didn't back up? Had to get it on, the domestic violence suspect was armed and non-compliant. Did back up? Had to get it on, the domestic violence suspect was armed and made a sudden movement. Fortson escalated it to lethal force by flashing the pistol. Ok, but remember, when people post situations where you would never shoot someone for merely having a pistol in their hand, you're not going to like it. It is pure unadulterated cowardice very likely combined with officer training that emphasized the ultimate goal of always coming home at night over *everything else at all times* to have done what that officer did. This is including the fact that officers are allowed to use non-proportional force to gain compliance. The situation here does not meet anythign like necessity. The cop saw the gun, became irrationally terrified, and given the speed with which he acted and his reflexive actions, I suspect training of the "cover my butt legally" variety kicked in. TL:DR Stop advocating for cowardice. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 4:08:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine where we'd be if there was no Body Cam footage? The Deputy would have claimed the Airman pointed the gun at him. Zero doubt in my mind about that. If LEOs are doing this kind of stuff knowing they are being recording, imagine all the shit they've been doing up until now. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 4:10:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The burden should not be on the officer to figure things out in the moment, people should be expected to not do dumb things. Uhm, THE sole purpose of the police is to deal with the people in society doing stupid things. They absolutely DO have the burden to figure things out in the moment. You just described the police officers job. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sure, I'm certainly not saying the deputy had no other option. But do you agree that 80% of this is due to the homeowner making a bad decision? I just don't understand why people seem to think it's reasonable to expect that every law enforcement officer be the equivalent of a robot powered by supercomputer that is programmed for every single theoretical possibility, able to take every sensory input and calculate the best reaction possible in milliseconds. Cops are humans with brains that are just as imperfect as anybody else. I certainly wish that everybody had extensive force on force scenario training that helped their brains get to the point where they avoid panic mode. Maybe in 10 or 20 years it will be standard for everybody to spend a lot of time in virtual reality simulators and things will be much better. Again, past outcomes have no influence on future probabilities. A deputy in a rural county may go 20 years with frequent interactions with armed people and never have a problem. Somebody working in an urban environment may have a completely different experience. The burden should not be on the officer to figure things out in the moment, people should be expected to not do dumb things. The burden should not be on the officer to figure things out in the moment, people should be expected to not do dumb things. Uhm, THE sole purpose of the police is to deal with the people in society doing stupid things. They absolutely DO have the burden to figure things out in the moment. You just described the police officers job. Ummm... I thought the purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law and protect society from criminals? The fact that it has become often about dealing with dumb people hasn't changed that. And I'm pretty sure I could think of recent incidents where people did dumb things and were killed by law enforcement because of it, and everybody agreed that the actions of law enforcement were 100% justified and legal. People should not do dumb things, period. It's completely unreasonable and extremely unfair to categorically expect law enforcement to figure out how to accommodate dumb people no matter how bad it gets without holding people responsible for the consequences of dumb mistakes. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 4:20:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Deputy would have claimed the Airman pointed the gun at him. Zero doubt in my mind about that. If LEOs are doing this kind of stuff knowing they are being recording, imagine all the shit they've been doing up until now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Imagine where we'd be if there was no Body Cam footage? The Deputy would have claimed the Airman pointed the gun at him. Zero doubt in my mind about that. If LEOs are doing this kind of stuff knowing they are being recording, imagine all the shit they've been doing up until now. *thunk* Drops another bit of evidence on the scale for "they're trained to do this and are acting reflexively." ETA: that department needs some going-over. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 4:40:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummm... I thought the purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law and protect society from criminals? The fact that it has become often about dealing with dumb people hasn't changed that. And I'm pretty sure I could think of recent incidents where people did dumb things and were killed by law enforcement because of it, and everybody agreed that the actions of law enforcement were 100% justified and legal. People should not do dumb things, period. It's completely unreasonable and extremely unfair to categorically expect law enforcement to figure out how to accommodate dumb people no matter how bad it gets without holding people responsible for the consequences of dumb mistakes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, I'm certainly not saying the deputy had no other option. But do you agree that 80% of this is due to the homeowner making a bad decision? I just don't understand why people seem to think it's reasonable to expect that every law enforcement officer be the equivalent of a robot powered by supercomputer that is programmed for every single theoretical possibility, able to take every sensory input and calculate the best reaction possible in milliseconds. Cops are humans with brains that are just as imperfect as anybody else. I certainly wish that everybody had extensive force on force scenario training that helped their brains get to the point where they avoid panic mode. Maybe in 10 or 20 years it will be standard for everybody to spend a lot of time in virtual reality simulators and things will be much better. Again, past outcomes have no influence on future probabilities. A deputy in a rural county may go 20 years with frequent interactions with armed people and never have a problem. Somebody working in an urban environment may have a completely different experience. The burden should not be on the officer to figure things out in the moment, people should be expected to not do dumb things. The burden should not be on the officer to figure things out in the moment, people should be expected to not do dumb things. Uhm, THE sole purpose of the police is to deal with the people in society doing stupid things. They absolutely DO have the burden to figure things out in the moment. You just described the police officers job. Ummm... I thought the purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law and protect society from criminals? The fact that it has become often about dealing with dumb people hasn't changed that. And I'm pretty sure I could think of recent incidents where people did dumb things and were killed by law enforcement because of it, and everybody agreed that the actions of law enforcement were 100% justified and legal. People should not do dumb things, period. It's completely unreasonable and extremely unfair to categorically expect law enforcement to figure out how to accommodate dumb people no matter how bad it gets without holding people responsible for the consequences of dumb mistakes. Police should train so that they don't reflexively jump to the use of deadly force at the mere sight of a gun, esp when that gun is not being used in any threatening way. The facts all together in this case make it a obvious as it can be that the guy at the door was not showing intent to use the gun on the officer. The officer saw the gun and the mere presence of it appears (I would say from the combined weight of the things we can see) to have triggered the reflex of the officer to start shooting, immediately. He activated because of it's presence. NOT because he saw any reasonable signs of the intent of it's use. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 4:40:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: *thunk* Drops another bit of evidence on the scale for "they're trained to do this and are acting reflexively." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Imagine where we'd be if there was no Body Cam footage? The Deputy would have claimed the Airman pointed the gun at him. Zero doubt in my mind about that. If LEOs are doing this kind of stuff knowing they are being recording, imagine all the shit they've been doing up until now. *thunk* Drops another bit of evidence on the scale for "they're trained to do this and are acting reflexively." Eh, I'm more of the opinion that it isn't trained out. As I mentioned earlier in thread, I understand why the deputy did what he did. Someone opening the door with a gun in their hand is grounds for a potential shitshow and most people's instinct is defend themselves. Totally get it. I definitely did what the deputy, before that reaction was trained out of me. People can be trained to make very quick go/no go decisions and how to deal with tunnel vision(to a degree.) ETA: Seems like we're on the same page.
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Posted: 5/16/2024 5:09:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummm... I thought the purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law and protect society from criminals? The fact that it has become often about dealing with dumb people hasn't changed that. And I'm pretty sure I could think of recent incidents where people did dumb things and were killed by law enforcement because of it, and everybody agreed that the actions of law enforcement were 100% justified and legal. People should not do dumb things, period. It's completely unreasonable and extremely unfair to categorically expect law enforcement to figure out how to accommodate dumb people no matter how bad it gets without holding people responsible for the consequences of dumb mistakes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, I'm certainly not saying the deputy had no other option. But do you agree that 80% of this is due to the homeowner making a bad decision? I just don't understand why people seem to think it's reasonable to expect that every law enforcement officer be the equivalent of a robot powered by supercomputer that is programmed for every single theoretical possibility, able to take every sensory input and calculate the best reaction possible in milliseconds. Cops are humans with brains that are just as imperfect as anybody else. I certainly wish that everybody had extensive force on force scenario training that helped their brains get to the point where they avoid panic mode. Maybe in 10 or 20 years it will be standard for everybody to spend a lot of time in virtual reality simulators and things will be much better. Again, past outcomes have no influence on future probabilities. A deputy in a rural county may go 20 years with frequent interactions with armed people and never have a problem. Somebody working in an urban environment may have a completely different experience. The burden should not be on the officer to figure things out in the moment, people should be expected to not do dumb things. The burden should not be on the officer to figure things out in the moment, people should be expected to not do dumb things. Uhm, THE sole purpose of the police is to deal with the people in society doing stupid things. They absolutely DO have the burden to figure things out in the moment. You just described the police officers job. Ummm... I thought the purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law and protect society from criminals? The fact that it has become often about dealing with dumb people hasn't changed that. And I'm pretty sure I could think of recent incidents where people did dumb things and were killed by law enforcement because of it, and everybody agreed that the actions of law enforcement were 100% justified and legal. People should not do dumb things, period. It's completely unreasonable and extremely unfair to categorically expect law enforcement to figure out how to accommodate dumb people no matter how bad it gets without holding people responsible for the consequences of dumb mistakes. I’m sorry I inadvertently made my post hard to follow, I’ll try to explain: People doing dumb things = Breaking the law Police dealing with people doing dumb things = Criminals breaking the law Even no shit violent criminals are supposed to be given the opportunity to be arrested without being shot when not directly posing a lethal threat to the officer. I would have preferred in the case with the Airman he would AT LEAST have been treated like a common criminal. Had be been he would probably not have been killed by acorn pop’s buddy. BTW, when exactly is it that police protect society from criminals? Have you seen the crime stats lately? |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 6:43:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well my understanding is, the deputy’s body camera picked up the airman saying something to the effect ‘police’ after the deputy announced. So, the deputy believed his presence as the police was acknowledged before the airman opened the door. Now, some posters have said, well except for that, how can it be shown the airman knew it was the police at his door? There is the peep hole, but the deputy is moving about. Most peep holes have a fish eye lens that would have seen the deputy in uniform. But you’ll have posters believe it may have been a cheap one, couldn’t see out it, or maybe the airman never looked. Then there is of course the usual disconnect with this incident, where posters will conflate them being at a firearms range, and there was a policeman there and that policeman did not shoot dead everyone holding a gun, so therefore the deputy murdered the airman. It’s an apartment in Florida, it’ll be the cheapest lens made. We don’t know what he said, nor for that matter do we even know what the Deputy believes he said. For all we know he said he was calling the police. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 7:21:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s an apartment in Florida, it’ll be the cheapest lens made. We don’t know what he said, nor for that matter do we even know what the Deputy believes he said. For all we know he said he was calling the police. The fdle will look at all that as will whatever prosecutor, a district attorney-states attorney-county prosecutor, that state uses, but it’s not going to hinge on any one thing… the deputy will get the benefit of the doubt. A prosecutor should seek or file criminal charges only if the prosecutor reasonably believes that the charges are supported by probable cause, that admissible evidence will be sufficient to support conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the decision to charge is in the interests of justice. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 7:24:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fdle will look at all that as will whatever prosecutor, a district attorney-states attorney-county prosecutor, that state uses, but it’s not going to hinge on any one thing… the deputy will get the benefit of the doubt. A prosecutor should seek or file criminal charges only if the prosecutor reasonably believes that the charges are supported by probable cause, that admissible evidence will be sufficient to support conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the decision to charge is in the interests of justice. The last five words will be their out. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 7:43:40 PM EDT
[#28]
The girlfriends video of the facetime. I cannot make out much of what is being said so others will need to caption or transcript.
Face time |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 7:44:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fdle will look at all that as will whatever prosecutor, a district attorney-states attorney-county prosecutor, that state uses, but it’s not going to hinge on any one thing… the deputy will get the benefit of the doubt. A prosecutor should seek or file criminal charges only if the prosecutor reasonably believes that the charges are supported by probable cause, that admissible evidence will be sufficient to support conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the decision to charge is in the interests of justice. You say that like you don’t think they approach all homicides like that. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 7:51:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Sheriff’s records obtained by the Miami Herald on Thursday show that in the 17 months prior to the shooting, there were no calls, complaints or incidents at Fortson’s unit. However, another unit — 1412 — had repeated domestic calls, including a “battery,” several welfare checks and an EMS call for a “hemorrhage” at the unit. Deputies were called 10 times to 1412 since August 2023, records show. It’s not clear from the records whether that unit is in the same building as Fortson’s, but no other unit in the complex had as many complaints.
Story |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 8:18:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You say that like you don’t think they approach all homicides like that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The fdle will look at all that as will whatever prosecutor, a district attorney-states attorney-county prosecutor, that state uses, but it’s not going to hinge on any one thing… the deputy will get the benefit of the doubt. A prosecutor should seek or file criminal charges only if the prosecutor reasonably believes that the charges are supported by probable cause, that admissible evidence will be sufficient to support conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the decision to charge is in the interests of justice. You say that like you don’t think they approach all homicides like that. They should… but I don’t know. Policing is regional. I don’t think very much of the deputy’s tactics… can you imagine if he talked to the manager during their contact and asked, who lived there, do you know much about him. Maybe ask for telephone/cell and if when he didn’t answer the door, maybe the deputy carried a cell and just call him… hey Mr Airman , sir this is deputy Johnson with the sheriffs department, is everything ok, would you mind stepping out to talk to me about a complaint we received |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 8:41:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well my understanding is, the deputy’s body camera picked up the airman saying something to the effect ‘police’ after the deputy announced. So, the deputy believed his presence as the police was acknowledged before the airman opened the door. Now, some posters have said, well except for that, how can it be shown the airman knew it was the police at his door? There is the peep hole, but the deputy is moving about. Most peep holes have a fish eye lens that would have seen the deputy in uniform. But you’ll have posters believe it may have been a cheap one, couldn’t see out it, or maybe the airman never looked. Then there is of course the usual disconnect with this incident, where posters will conflate them being at a firearms range, and there was a policeman there and that policeman did not shoot dead everyone holding a gun, so therefore the deputy murdered the airman. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why do some people on this thread seem to think that apartment walls perfectly transmit sound? He wasn't standing on the other side of the door when the policeman knocked and announced. He was in another room on a phone call. It is unlikely he understood a word the cop said. Well my understanding is, the deputy’s body camera picked up the airman saying something to the effect ‘police’ after the deputy announced. So, the deputy believed his presence as the police was acknowledged before the airman opened the door. Now, some posters have said, well except for that, how can it be shown the airman knew it was the police at his door? There is the peep hole, but the deputy is moving about. Most peep holes have a fish eye lens that would have seen the deputy in uniform. But you’ll have posters believe it may have been a cheap one, couldn’t see out it, or maybe the airman never looked. Then there is of course the usual disconnect with this incident, where posters will conflate them being at a firearms range, and there was a policeman there and that policeman did not shoot dead everyone holding a gun, so therefore the deputy murdered the airman. Where did you pull this from? The person he was talking to said the exact opposite, he said hold on someone is banging the door. Do you really think a squared away gunship crew guy was going to shoot a cop? |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 8:43:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine where we'd be if there was no Body Cam footage? Good Lord, cop sees black man with a gun, bang bang bang bang bang bang I'm gonna run with the rioters, get a new pair of sneakers |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 8:46:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sheriff’s records obtained by the Miami Herald on Thursday show that in the 17 months prior to the shooting, there were no calls, complaints or incidents at Fortson’s unit. However, another unit — 1412 — had repeated domestic calls, including a “battery,” several welfare checks and an EMS call for a “hemorrhage” at the unit. Deputies were called 10 times to 1412 since August 2023, records show. It’s not clear from the records whether that unit is in the same building as Fortson’s, but no other unit in the complex had as many complaints. Story Uh Oh! |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:03:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh Oh! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sheriff’s records obtained by the Miami Herald on Thursday show that in the 17 months prior to the shooting, there were no calls, complaints or incidents at Fortson’s unit. However, another unit — 1412 — had repeated domestic calls, including a “battery,” several welfare checks and an EMS call for a “hemorrhage” at the unit. Deputies were called 10 times to 1412 since August 2023, records show. It’s not clear from the records whether that unit is in the same building as Fortson’s, but no other unit in the complex had as many complaints. Story Uh Oh! No... no... we were assured they went to the correct residence! |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:05:40 PM EDT
[#36]
So is the LEO in jail yet awaiting trial?
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:09:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you watch the video. Unless he was deaf he knew it was a cop. Stop it with your bs twisting of events. Goddammit you people don't quit with your BS. I'm done with this dumbass post and the stupid posts. Even I could have heard that officer through the door, Unsubscribed Are you a cop? |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:22:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sheriff’s records obtained by the Miami Herald on Thursday show that in the 17 months prior to the shooting, there were no calls, complaints or incidents at Fortson’s unit. However, another unit — 1412 — had repeated domestic calls, including a “battery,” several welfare checks and an EMS call for a “hemorrhage” at the unit. Deputies were called 10 times to 1412 since August 2023, records show. It’s not clear from the records whether that unit is in the same building as Fortson’s, but no other unit in the complex had as many complaints. Story So the Deputy was at the wrong apartment... And they can't pin DV on the dead guy, because his otherwise happy girl was in another State? Woof |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:23:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sheriff’s records obtained by the Miami Herald on Thursday show that in the 17 months prior to the shooting, there were no calls, complaints or incidents at Fortson’s unit. However, another unit — 1412 — had repeated domestic calls, including a “battery,” several welfare checks and an EMS call for a “hemorrhage” at the unit. Deputies were called 10 times to 1412 since August 2023, records show. It’s not clear from the records whether that unit is in the same building as Fortson’s, but no other unit in the complex had as many complaints. Story For all the people who said he was an abuser in this thread here you go. I said earlier if there had been any calls about the residence before the Sheriff would have talked about it at the presser. Building 1, floor 4, unit 12. The Karens sent Deputy trigger happy to the wrong apartment. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:24:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The girlfriends video of the facetime. I cannot make out much of what is being said so others will need to caption or transcript. Face time Wow |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:26:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sheriff’s records obtained by the Miami Herald on Thursday show that in the 17 months prior to the shooting, there were no calls, complaints or incidents at Fortson’s unit. However, another unit — 1412 — had repeated domestic calls, including a “battery,” several welfare checks and an EMS call for a “hemorrhage” at the unit. Deputies were called 10 times to 1412 since August 2023, records show. It’s not clear from the records whether that unit is in the same building as Fortson’s, but no other unit in the complex had as many complaints. Story Wait for the next spin. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:26:28 PM EDT
[#42]
What was Fortson address?
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:26:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was Fortson address? 1410 |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:33:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The girlfriends video of the facetime. I cannot make out much of what is being said so others will need to caption or transcript. Face time DON'T MOVE!!! Yeah no shit he's dying he won't ever being moving again soon. So he yells drop the gun after he shoots that guy. And then yells Don't Move as he is dying. He should have thrown in some STOP RESISTING for good measure. Smart girlfriend for recording. I wonder what the maximum civil judgment has been in one of these cases, I bet this beats it. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:37:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: DON'T MOVE!!! Yeah no shit he's dying he won't ever being moving again soon. So he yells drop the gun after he shoots that guy. And then yells Don't Move as he is dying. He should have thrown in some STOP RESISTING for good measure. Smart girlfriend for recording. I wonder what the maximum civil judgment has been in one of these cases, I bet this beats it. I will bet the coverup will be in a latter tape segment. This is just Part 1. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:39:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: DON'T MOVE!!! Yeah no shit he's dying he won't ever being moving again soon. So he yells drop the gun after he shoots that guy. And then yells Don't Move as he is dying. He should have thrown in some STOP RESISTING for good measure. Smart girlfriend for recording. I wonder what the maximum civil judgment has been in one of these cases, I bet this beats it. Again, cops expect absolutely impossible physical responses from the public. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:41:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So is the LEO in jail yet awaiting trial? Pft! Deputy is enjoying his time off, cooking up he and his wife burgers on his George Floyd Grill.  Attached File
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:48:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will bet the coverup will be in a latter tape segment. This is just Part 1. When the first of the backup arrived he says something to the effect of "he answered the door with a gun". I think doubt was already setting in. You're probably right that Crump is going to trickle this out for maximum effect. Nothing but bad news left for the department. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:50:46 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the first of the backup arrived he says something to the effect of "he answered the door with a gun". I think doubt was already setting in. You're probably right that Crump is going to trickle this out for maximum effect. Nothing but bad news left for the department. When they start walking through the apartment looking for the 2nd person who never was, you will heard juicer comments as they get closer to the laptop. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 9:50:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your lucky Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: b Quoted: Did you watch the video. Unless he was deaf he knew it was a cop. Stop it with your bs twisting of events. Goddammit you people don't quit with your BS. I'm done with this dumbass post and the stupid posts. Even I could have heard that officer through the door, Unsubscribed WAH WAH WAH Them boots aren't going to lick themselves. Your lucky Go on... Do tell. How is he "lucky"? |
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