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Posted: 2/9/2015 10:40:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Hell, I may wind up with one of these as well...........
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Posted: 2/9/2015 10:49:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same principle as the HK MP-7, I guess? Capable of being shoulder-fired, but also fits in a holster. Exactly. Underrated concept IMO. Been one of my favorite obscure guns for a while. I haven't fired one but I have handled a de-milled example my FFL has. |
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Posted: 2/9/2015 10:59:48 PM EDT
[#3]
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Looks like it would be east to blow the fingers off your support hand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thats a weird lookin gun. Bet its fun in full auto!!! Looks like it would be east to blow the fingers off your support hand. |
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Posted: 2/9/2015 11:03:25 PM EDT
[#4]
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Thats a weird lookin gun. Bet its fun in full auto!!! Looks like it would be east to blow the fingers off your support hand. The brake extends passed the grip area when the weapon actually fires..... |
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Posted: 2/9/2015 11:10:46 PM EDT
[#5]
It was the shit in Black Ops
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Posted: 2/11/2015 9:04:19 PM EDT
[#6]
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The one I fondled at Knob Creek last spring seemed to be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has anyone seen one of the semi-auto ones or handled one? Does anyone know if the front handle is welded in place? I would imagine yes since it would otherwise be an AOW. Front folding grip is not metal.......maybe pinned in the folded position though. Cool. Hopefully it's an easy undo if we want to SBR it. Just curious: Do you know if it's Bakelite? The one I fondled at Knob Creek last spring seemed to be. Cool. I want to get this for the historical value. I think they look cool and it was featured in an issue of SAR that I have. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 9:18:00 PM EDT
[#7]
I have a fascination with Polish Military TO&E. I've been trying to get a parts kit for one of these for a few years now, but there just isn't a lot of them in the country. I am actually very excited IO is imported demilled and rebuilt ones, as well as Beryl is starting stateside productions of this, the ARCHER, and the Massada clone thing.
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Posted: 2/11/2015 9:40:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm guessing that comes from using "creative" cocking methods......being that it's a open bolt SMG. If you press cock it using the spoon brake, and didn't get the bolt/slide back far enough to engage the sear.......bang. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Played with a few. Neat mechanically. But been told by Poles that spent allot of time behind the trigger that it was a a dangerous POS. I'm guessing that comes from using "creative" cocking methods......being that it's a open bolt SMG. If you press cock it using the spoon brake, and didn't get the bolt/slide back far enough to engage the sear.......bang. Also the fact that the folding stock provides barely adequate clearance for the slide as the gun cycles. Slip up and you get a big fucking hunk of steel right in the cheekbone. FWIW, Sturmgewehr on his MAC youtube channel went to a machine gun range in Vegas. In that vid, the Forgotten Weapons dude puts a few mags through one. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 9:43:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg 
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 9:43:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats a weird lookin gun. Bet its fun in full auto!!! It sucks. I've shot it. ....in Call of Duty Black Ops. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 9:45:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Want. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The PM-63 is coming to the US in 2015 in the form of a semi pistol, imported by IO, made by Pioneer arms of Poland out of de milled parts. Want. I'm leery of anything IO brings over. After the Beryl fiasco, and well, every other IO fiasco, they're more or less on Century Arms level when it comes to trust-ability. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 9:49:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like it would be east to blow the fingers off your support hand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thats a weird lookin gun. Bet its fun in full auto!!! Looks like it would be east to blow the fingers off your support hand. That was my first reaction when I shot an UZI. Not much barrel out there. I've heard shot support hands are somewhat common too. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 10:01:09 PM EDT
[#13]
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Also the fact that the folding stock provides barely adequate clearance for the slide as the gun cycles. Slip up and you get a big fucking hunk of steel right in the cheekbone. FWIW, Sturmgewehr on his MAC youtube channel went to a machine gun range in Vegas. In that vid, the Forgotten Weapons dude puts a few mags through one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Played with a few. Neat mechanically. But been told by Poles that spent allot of time behind the trigger that it was a a dangerous POS. I'm guessing that comes from using "creative" cocking methods......being that it's a open bolt SMG. If you press cock it using the spoon brake, and didn't get the bolt/slide back far enough to engage the sear.......bang. Also the fact that the folding stock provides barely adequate clearance for the slide as the gun cycles. Slip up and you get a big fucking hunk of steel right in the cheekbone. FWIW, Sturmgewehr on his MAC youtube channel went to a machine gun range in Vegas. In that vid, the Forgotten Weapons dude puts a few mags through one. Possiably .......it would be a one time "mistake". Kind of like firing a stocked Mauser Schnellfeuer and putting your thumb in the wrong postion.
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Posted: 2/11/2015 10:28:39 PM EDT
[#14]
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Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. wat |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 10:29:36 PM EDT
[#15]
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That was my first reaction when I shot an UZI. Not much barrel out there. I've heard shot support hands are somewhat common too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thats a weird lookin gun. Bet its fun in full auto!!! Looks like it would be east to blow the fingers off your support hand. That was my first reaction when I shot an UZI. Not much barrel out there. I've heard shot support hands are somewhat common too. I've read it was common in the 80's with MACs. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 10:36:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wat Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. wat Nope.....they where rifled. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 10:46:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Guys, as the owner of an open bolt subgun, I will tel you that they are in fact dangerous if you do not normally handle open bolt weapons and are familiar with their manual of arms. Some things you do with closed bolt guns are dangerous with one of these weapons- though most of it can be mitigated by pulling the mag first.
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Posted: 2/11/2015 10:55:01 PM EDT
[#18]
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Thank you. I wasn't sure if it came in 9mm Luger as well. I prefer 9mm MAK since I'm sitting on a good pile bought when prices were lower. Open-bolt SMG's are a challenge to convert to semi-auto closed-bolt. It was done very well with the Uzi, so hopefully this turns out well also. I'm very excited about this. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I've got a kit in hand I've been messing with, should be fairly easy to do a striker fired setup. Also enough room in the back to do a shrouded hammer setup if someone wants to go that route. I'm going to attempt to fit a glock striker setup in mine once I get a re-weld jig done for the lower. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 11:11:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guys, as the owner of an open bolt subgun, I will tel you that they are in fact dangerous if you do not normally handle open bolt weapons and are familiar with their manual of arms. Some things you do with closed bolt guns are dangerous with one of these weapons- though most of it can be mitigated by pulling the mag first. Yep......found that out with my first time firing an M-10. 
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Posted: 2/11/2015 11:16:52 PM EDT
[#20]
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I've got a kit in hand I've been messing with, should be fairly easy to do a striker fired setup. Also enough room in the back to do a shrouded hammer setup if someone wants to go that route. I'm going to attempt to fit a glock striker setup in mine once I get a re-weld jig done for the lower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thank you. I wasn't sure if it came in 9mm Luger as well. I prefer 9mm MAK since I'm sitting on a good pile bought when prices were lower. Open-bolt SMG's are a challenge to convert to semi-auto closed-bolt. It was done very well with the Uzi, so hopefully this turns out well also. I'm very excited about this. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I've got a kit in hand I've been messing with, should be fairly easy to do a striker fired setup. Also enough room in the back to do a shrouded hammer setup if someone wants to go that route. I'm going to attempt to fit a glock striker setup in mine once I get a re-weld jig done for the lower. Cool, please start a thread when you get going. Are surplus mags available? |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 11:19:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got a kit in hand I've been messing with, should be fairly easy to do a striker fired setup. Also enough room in the back to do a shrouded hammer setup if someone wants to go that route. I'm going to attempt to fit a glock striker setup in mine once I get a re-weld jig done for the lower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thank you. I wasn't sure if it came in 9mm Luger as well. I prefer 9mm MAK since I'm sitting on a good pile bought when prices were lower. Open-bolt SMG's are a challenge to convert to semi-auto closed-bolt. It was done very well with the Uzi, so hopefully this turns out well also. I'm very excited about this. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I've got a kit in hand I've been messing with, should be fairly easy to do a striker fired setup. Also enough room in the back to do a shrouded hammer setup if someone wants to go that route. I'm going to attempt to fit a glock striker setup in mine once I get a re-weld jig done for the lower. If you do a little write-up, definitely post a link in this thread. I would love to see it.  Or if you have any pictures you'd like to share, please do.
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Posted: 2/11/2015 11:20:28 PM EDT
[#22]
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That would be a Finnish Jati Matic SMG ......Stallone carried one in Cobra...... Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would be a Finnish Jati Matic SMG ......Stallone carried one in Cobra...... I really want one. I have never seen one for sale. |
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Posted: 2/12/2015 12:05:15 AM EDT
[#23]
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I have a fascination with Polish Military TO&E. I've been trying to get a parts kit for one of these for a few years now, but there just isn't a lot of them in the country. I am actually very excited IO is imported demilled and rebuilt ones, as well as Beryl is starting stateside productions of this, the ARCHER, and the Massada clone thing. Just found this: http://militarygunsupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1277 |
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Posted: 2/12/2015 1:26:08 AM EDT
[#24]
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Nope.....they where rifled. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. wat Nope.....they where rifled. Every Kommando LDP kit I've seen that made it here was a smoothbore. They were extremely cheap to manufacture. |
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Posted: 2/12/2015 2:38:47 AM EDT
[#25]
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Every Kommando LDP kit I've seen that made it here was a smoothbore. They were extremely cheap to manufacture. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. wat Nope.....they where rifled. Every Kommando LDP kit I've seen that made it here was a smoothbore. They were extremely cheap to manufacture. My buddy's was rifled.......and he used them in Rhodesia quite a bit. Only thing he said about them was the bolts where "soft" and it would wear out and go auto. But I'll asking about the smooth bore thing. |
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Posted: 2/12/2015 2:50:57 AM EDT
[#26]
I Googled "Kommando LDP smoothbore", looks legit.
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Posted: 2/12/2015 3:05:37 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 2/12/2015 3:38:25 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips.
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Posted: 2/13/2015 1:09:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. They were made as fast & cheap as possible. (was a product of a dire time intended for short range defense) Every one I've seen was smoothbore. It's entirely possible they also made them with rifled barrels, but they made a ton with no rifling at all. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21505&PN=1 |
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Posted: 2/13/2015 1:22:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Tim from Military Arms Channel had one of these in his video from a few weeks ago IIRC, when he was out in Vegas at SHOT. There's a machine gun rental place he stopped at.
EDIT: I'm on potato phone so I can't embed but here's the mobile link http://youtu.be/aVuoBwZxcJ4 |
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Posted: 2/13/2015 1:43:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were made as fast & cheap as possible. (was a product of a dire time intended for short range defense) Every one I've seen was smoothbore. It's entirely possible they also made them with rifled barrels, but they made a ton with no rifling at all. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21505&PN=1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. They were made as fast & cheap as possible. (was a product of a dire time intended for short range defense) Every one I've seen was smoothbore. It's entirely possible they also made them with rifled barrels, but they made a ton with no rifling at all. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21505&PN=1 I've only seen one, but it had a rifled barrel. |
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Posted: 2/13/2015 5:32:53 PM EDT
[#32]
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I've only seen one, but it had a rifled barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg
Uh, no. Those are smoothbore, and operate totally differently. They don't even look alike outside of them both being subguns with magwell grips. They were made as fast & cheap as possible. (was a product of a dire time intended for short range defense) Every one I've seen was smoothbore. It's entirely possible they also made them with rifled barrels, but they made a ton with no rifling at all. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21505&PN=1 I've only seen one, but it had a rifled barrel. You sure it didn't have they Czech type polygonal rifling like a CZ-82? When very clean they look to be smoothbore, it's not till you fire the gun that you see the depressions show. |
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Posted: 2/13/2015 6:34:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Showed up yesterday........looks like they were brand new before they were torched.....
Already folks working on .380 barrels and closed bolt semi conversions for these.... 
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Posted: 2/14/2015 1:45:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You sure it didn't have they Czech type polygonal rifling like a CZ-82? When very clean they look to be smoothbore, it's not till you fire the gun that you see the depressions show. Yeah, they were just tubing. I'm actually surprised more people haven't chimed in about them. There were a lot of kits for awhile in the late 80s (early 90s?) and a lot of guys passed on them because of the barrels. That and they weren't the best made guns in the first place, lack of rifled barrels notwithstanding. Like really shitty Stens that have a more modern profile. Also not easy (if at all reasonably possible) to make them closed-bolt semis. |
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Posted: 2/14/2015 3:01:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Showed up yesterday........looks like they were brand new before they were torched..... Already folks working on .380 barrels and closed bolt semi conversions for these.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/villafuego/P1010173.jpg At dealers? What are they going for? |
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Posted: 2/14/2015 4:37:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tim from Military Arms Channel had one of these in his video from a few weeks ago IIRC, when he was out in Vegas at SHOT. There's a machine gun rental place he stopped at. EDIT: I'm on potato phone so I can't embed but here's the mobile link http://youtu.be/aVuoBwZxcJ4 That was our place, Battlefield Vegas, and we do have one. It's a cool gun and and IMHO, not the least bit dangerous. V/R Ron M Cheney |
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Posted: 2/14/2015 4:50:49 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was our place, Battlefield Vegas, and we do have one. It's a cool gun and and IMHO, not the least bit dangerous. V/R Ron M Cheney Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tim from Military Arms Channel had one of these in his video from a few weeks ago IIRC, when he was out in Vegas at SHOT. There's a machine gun rental place he stopped at. EDIT: I'm on potato phone so I can't embed but here's the mobile link http://youtu.be/aVuoBwZxcJ4 That was our place, Battlefield Vegas, and we do have one. It's a cool gun and and IMHO, not the least bit dangerous. V/R Ron M Cheney 
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Posted: 2/15/2015 2:02:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Showed up yesterday........looks like they were brand new before they were torched..... Already folks working on .380 barrels and closed bolt semi conversions for these.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/villafuego/P1010173.jpg Looks nice. Where did you get it and how much of it is torched? It looks like more than the receiver is torched in some of the kit pics I'm seeing. |
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Posted: 2/15/2015 2:25:14 PM EDT
[#39]
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Looks nice. Where did you get it and how much of it is torched? It looks like more than the receiver is torched in some of the kit pics I'm seeing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Showed up yesterday........looks like they were brand new before they were torched..... Already folks working on .380 barrels and closed bolt semi conversions for these.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/villafuego/P1010173.jpg Looks nice. Where did you get it and how much of it is torched? It looks like more than the receiver is torched in some of the kit pics I'm seeing. From MGS.......the receiver is cut in 4 places.....the bbl is torched as well..... I left one of the receiver "chunks" out of the pic....still de-slagging it..... Some kits showed up with cut slides a while back.....pretty much good for nothing but spares.... |
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Posted: 2/15/2015 2:30:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From MGS.......the receiver is cut in 4 places.....the bbl is torched as well..... I left one of the receiver "chunks" out of the pic....still de-slagging it..... Some kits showed up with cut slides a while back.....pretty much good for nothing but spares.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Showed up yesterday........looks like they were brand new before they were torched..... Already folks working on .380 barrels and closed bolt semi conversions for these.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/villafuego/P1010173.jpg Looks nice. Where did you get it and how much of it is torched? It looks like more than the receiver is torched in some of the kit pics I'm seeing. From MGS.......the receiver is cut in 4 places.....the bbl is torched as well..... I left one of the receiver "chunks" out of the pic....still de-slagging it..... Some kits showed up with cut slides a while back.....pretty much good for nothing but spares.... Hmm. The pic on MGS shows a torched slide as well. Should I gamble? These would be super cool semi sbrs. I'd rather keep it in 9 mak than .380 though. ETA: Never mind. I'm a retard. That's the barrel. |
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Posted: 2/15/2015 2:45:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like it has a slide, which could cause some owies. |
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Posted: 2/15/2015 2:57:43 PM EDT
[#42]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-FviDFLttVU
Will someone embed that please? |
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Posted: 2/15/2015 5:11:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Villafuego, can you post more pics?
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Posted: 2/15/2015 5:11:59 PM EDT
[#44]
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-FviDFLttVU Will someone embed that please? First try embedding. ETA: fail |
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Posted: 2/15/2015 5:14:38 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 2/15/2015 6:01:12 PM EDT
[#46]
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Villafuego, can you post more pics? A few more.......came with 2 mags, cleaning kit, tools, mag pouch, holster, and sling/lanyard..... I welded the bbl back together with a bolt in the bore.....so now I at least have a "dummy" bbl..... 
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