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So.. What is everyone going to do with their mandatory semi-auto gun buyback money? Buy "sniper rifles" |
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Forget the "mental health" issue. The minute it becomes law that certain diagnoses can be sent to court for adjudication of the loss of 2nd amendment rights, this scenario WILL play out: Another tragedy occurs. It is discovered that the person saw a psychiatrist who did not diagnose at the time because while certain DSM items did match, the frequency or degree was not judged to be there. Other psychiatrists smell fame and fortune and book deals, they get on msnbc and claim he made a mistake, people would be alive if he had given the diagnosis and sent the criminal to court for loss of rights. Pharmaceutical companies, who love diagnoses that end in prescriptions, support a legal effort to remove the original pscyh's license, and perhaps even sue him for some liability. Other psychs see this and tell themselves "there is no way I am going to let someone walk out of here without a diagnosis, I'm not getting tanked like that dude, and look at the book deals those other psychs got!" Now anybody who sees them gets a diagnosis. Unfortunately, some people out there refuse to ever take their children in to get diagnosed or refuse to see someone themselves. Queue the school system and workplaces, who start referring people to mandatory evaluations (the options are being remanded to LD classes or being fired). Now you are in a system where it is more convenient to pawn you off on a diagnosis than deal with coaching, performance, discipline, etc... especially since teachers and workplaces might be liable for handling such things incorrectly. There are already massive criticisms of the DSM and over-diagnosis, documented instances of psychiatric professionals agreeing to push the commercial interests of pharmaceutical companies, etc. The mental health solution is MORE dangerous than an AWB or a handgun ban or a mag capacity limit to our 2nd amendment rights. It empowers the state to remove ALL rights to ANY firearms without any choice of the individual. You can not win against a government that wants to take your rights away if they have the legal path to the result, all intervening steps are mere interpretations that can be financially and politically bullied. These experts that would make these diagnoses are not elected, are not even appointed by elected officials, and as a community they determine their own requirements with no real outside review. They are not judges, and even if a judge was inserted into the process, what judge would want to be liable for disagreeing with the diagnosis of the "expert?" In this society of litigation and multiple steps of punishment, leaving gun rights in the hands of any person or expert will default to removing gun rights. What a pretty picture you paint. |
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So.. What is everyone going to do with their mandatory semi-auto gun buyback money? Airsoft. Why bother with anything else? Most people here openly admit they own guns because it's their hobby. They don't view it at a right at all. Besides you can punch paper without all the legal red tape with an airsoft rifle. no SBR, SBS, DD, or MG restrictions on 6mm bbs. I'm not going to pour more money into guns that will just get banned at a later date. Sorry, if nobody else lobs a melon over a semi-auto ban neither will I. |
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So.. What is everyone going to do with their mandatory semi-auto gun buyback money? It'll be a lever-action world. |
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So.. What is everyone going to do with their mandatory semi-auto gun buyback money? Har har har... |
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<snip> Thanks. Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, we live in a "we have to do something" society. While I don't disagree with anything you posted, some people may lose right because of this. As you said, you cant stop monsters from doing despicable things. |
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The crazy guy standing on the street corner, having an argument with the street sign and shitting his pants...he can buy and possess firearms. It doesnt matter that he's insane, homeless, self medicating with alcohol. But because people like him sometimes resort to mass shootings the legislative and executive branches want to ban semiautomatic rifles, handguns, pump and semi shotguns, ect for ALL of us.
Screw that. Throw crazy into a state mental hospital and leave the rest of us alone. If state hospitals cant be brought back and the public demands that congress simply MUST pass some new gun bans, then make it a prohibition on the possession of firearms for the crazies. Though i prefer the sate mental hospital route myself as it will actually solve several problems unrelated to gun violence at the same time. |
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ME says all were shot with Rifle. "ME"? I am guessing medical examiner. |
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ME says all were shot with Rifle. Unfortunately the Medical Examiner also said they were hit multiple times. Conn. school victims shot by rifle multiple times NEWTOWN, CT -- All the victims of the Connecticut elementary school shooting were killed up close by multiple rifle shots, a medical examiner said.
Dr. H. Wayne Carver said at a news conference Saturday the deaths are classified as homicides. He said he believes "everybody was hit more than once." |
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This will be one slippery slope....AWB will be first. Once the next massacre happens, handguns will be outlawed. After the next massacre, rifles. After the next massacre, shotguns. After the next massacre, all guns will be outlawed.
Sounds a little far fetched. We have to make sure the Repubs don't lose out on the midterms. With the Fiscal Cliff negotiations and now this, they are losing the information war. |
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You have the panderer in chief saying that due process, in regards to killing american citizens as enemy combatants, is what he says it is, with the AG backing him up.
WTF do you think is gonna happen with this 'due process' when federal courts get involved with stripping rights away, or worse yet, a new division of the atf created to 'review' firearm owners. But don't worry. No one knows you have guns. The 4473's are destroyed, per law, |
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Talking head on CNN just said the .223 Bushmaster has elements that make it resemble a military weapon, but it is primarily a hunting rifle.
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I understand the sentiments and gun control comments today, BUT.. I think many of these statements are coming from knee-jerk emotions today. I was really hoping to avoid this kind of debate, at least today. But, this is what today has devolved into. This is a tragic day, no doubt. But, it's the face of evil. Guns were just the instrument of that evil today. And, it strikes a nerve because of the number of deaths, within 1 incident, and that it struck down children. Jonestown, 900 were killed with kool-aid, McVeigh killed 168, (including 19 children under 6) in Oklahoma with a bomb, and OBL killed almost 3,000 with airplanes on 9/11. How many children did Hitler kill? This is just another horrific mass murder, and the face of evil. WELL SAID. As I always say; bad things find a way of happening regardless of the means or why. THanks.. #1. I'm in commie Kalifornia, which now has a VERY liberal Democrat Governor, and a Democratic SUPERMAJORITY. If any place is going to get pinched, it's here. That said.. I really don't expect a full on BAN on handguns or even "assault" rifles. We aren't talking about TAX THE RICH... which practically EVERY democrat believes in. No doubt, gun-control is a big liberal agenda item, BUT... it is also a constitutional right (so far).. and many liberals are actually quite vocal and strong defenders of all rights under the constitution. I've noticed this, that some of my most liberal friends on Facebook, who I have the most heated debates leading up to the NObama Re-election debacle.. are all vocal defenders of the 2nd Amendment, and all own firearms. I'm not sure NObama and the Dems have as much widespread support for an all-out weapon ban, even within their own party. #2. This country has, at most, a national 10-day attention span. As horrific as this mass murder is, it will fade quickly.. especially as the fiscal cliff mess takes center stage. Plus the holidays are upon us. By Jan 2, this rampage won't even be on the top 2 pages on Yahoo News. How quickly did the Colorado shooting fade from the headlines? Before you know it, the Yahoo News front page will be more focused on Princess Kate's pregnancy vomiting, and what Kim Kardashian was wearing last night. #3. More likely, I suspect.. will be heavy regulations and TAXES on things associated with guns. Like ammo tax, longer waiting periods, permits, federal ATF registry of ALL weapon SNs, heavily regulate firing ranges and gun stores, etc.. Not all of these are bad things either. Personally, I don't particularly mind the CA 10-day wait and background checks on both ME and the weapon I plan on purchasing. They won't ban guns.. but just make it really annoying and bothersome and expensive to own/shoot guns. #4. that said.. I'm probably going to move up my timeline on a few ARs and AR components I had planned for 2013-2014. Just in case.. Just my opinion... That bolded part cannot be allowed. It would be disastrous for us down the road. Conservatives should not even entertaining compromising on that. The other crap you mention would suck, but ultimately be livable with. |
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I agree that this a mental health issue. I know I will get jumped on for this - but maybe we should push for gun permits that require a mental exam for new gun owners. Anyone that has firearms for a certain time period could be grand-fathered in. Make firearms, ammo, and mags regulated so one must have a permit to buy. I am not saying registation of one's firearms. We already do this to a degree, but it seems like alot of firearm crimes are commited by youth that are un-trained, un-supervised, and or mentally ill. We should push firearms responsiblity or the other side will push for a ban which I simply would not comply with. I think we know some regulation is coming - I would rather see something like this where both sides win, then something un-fair and punitive. Both sides do not win, and it is definitely punitive and unfair. Radical right winger ?? You're not right in the head=no gun. |
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Talking head on CNN just said the .223 Bushmaster has elements that make it resemble a military weapon, but it is primarily a hunting rifle. no fucking way....... |
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I gotta say, your fault, my fault, I don't care who's fault it was, it p*sses me off to no end that not one person in that whole building was prepared to even remotely defend those kids against an attacker, other than throwing themselves across the next victim. It looks like if he had had a sharp sword he would have slayed untold numbers.
ETA - The janitor could have had a pitch fork in his broom closet - something, anything. . |
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Quoted: I gotta say, your fault, my fault, I don't care who's fault it was, it p*sses me off to no end that not one person in that whole building was prepared to even remotely defend those kids against an attacker, other than throwing themselves across the next victim. It looks like if he had had a sharp sword he would have slayed untold numbers. ETA - The janitor could have had a pitch fork in his broom closet - something, anything. . They followed SOP. Hide in classroom, close door, pray. They put the school on lockdown, which we all know is the worst thing to do as it prevents escape. Lockdown also resulted in Police not being able to get in, as first responders did not have breaching tools. Librarian stated she demanded Badge/Photo ID before letting police in from outside. The fact is, we advocate some of the worst possible strategies for survival because we are more concerned with legal liability than saving lives.
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how is it that the federal government or a private business owner can decree that their business or institution is a gun free zone, and then not be held responsible for the lack of security? How is it possible that gun rights take a hit because property owners want gun free zones yet offer no protection for the people inside them.
IMHO if a property owner is going to open a business to the public, or create a public institution and demand no firearms, then they should have to have on sight armed security. Period. That should be law. |
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I gotta say, your fault, my fault, I don't care who's fault it was, it p*sses me off to no end that not one person in that whole building was prepared to even remotely defend those kids against an attacker, other than throwing themselves across the next victim. It looks like if he had had a sharp sword he would have slayed untold numbers. ETA - The janitor could have had a pitch fork in his broom closet - something, anything. . They followed SOP. Hide in classroom, close door, pray. They put the school on lockdown, which we all know is the worst thing to do as it prevents escape. Lockdown also resulted in Police not being able to get in, as first responders did not have breaching tools. Librarian stated she demanded Badge/Photo ID before letting police in from outside. The fact is, we advocate some of the worst possible strategies for survival because we are more concerned with legal liability than saving lives. Sad thing is, news is talking about the heroism of some of the teachers, (and they were heroic) shielding their students with their body, but ignores the possibility of equipping these heroes with effective tools. |
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They followed SOP. Hide in classroom, close door, pray. Ahh... yes... The French doctrine. |
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Quoted: Quoted: It sure does seem that something changed in the 1990s. Quoted: Especially if there's any truth to the son being autistic and having a "personality disorder." Had we a strict ban it would have been a stabbing or bombing this thread was discussing, it's not about the tool used it's about a state of society that fosters young people like this kid and Jared Loughner and the VT kid to feel the need to start randomly killing. Somethings big time fucked up around here and these shootings are a symptom of that, our only real hope (and I'm not talking just about gun rights here) is to figure out what's going on and try to fix it. And don't make the mistake of lumping these kids doing this in with Tim McVay and various other nutjobs or terrorists, this is something entirely different and needs to be treated as such. It's important we figure out the "why," maybe more important then any of us posting here can understand. This isn't anti-authority killing, this isn't "a guy who's been pushed to far" building a killdozer, this isn't religious extremists dying for their gods; these are our kids killing other kids, doesn't even matter that a gun was used, he national conversation should be "why our kids feel compelled to kill innocents and what pushed them there" not what they used to do the killing, that's just stupid. Any politician that brings up gun control in the wake of this should be made a pariah and laughing stock just like a doctor that wanted to write you a prescription for aspirin when you have an ax sticking out of your forehead. ETA: whether you are armed or not, if you consider yourself a man and know kindergarteners are being shot to death and your priority is fleeing to safety, well you ain't no man at all. Can't really say more on that, the mods here have been generous enough. McVeigh was a different animal. Completely and utterly rational. These little shits aren't the same. I was just talking with my wife about this. We both can't recall these mass school shootings occurring before the 90s, at least with any regularity or fanfare. Something changed within our society. History Of School Shootings In The US History of Prozac. That, and the other "copycat" drugs that were quickly produced to avoid the patents on this pharmaceutical company enriching drug.
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I gotta say, your fault, my fault, I don't care who's fault it was, it p*sses me off to no end that not one person in that whole building was prepared to even remotely defend those kids against an attacker, other than throwing themselves across the next victim. It looks like if he had had a sharp sword he would have slayed untold numbers. ETA - The janitor could have had a pitch fork in his broom closet - something, anything. . yup. magicly make everygun on earth vanish. and this will still happen 22 children stabbed in china school attack |
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Quoted: Quoted: I gotta say, your fault, my fault, I don't care who's fault it was, it p*sses me off to no end that not one person in that whole building was prepared to even remotely defend those kids against an attacker, other than throwing themselves across the next victim. It looks like if he had had a sharp sword he would have slayed untold numbers. ETA - The janitor could have had a pitch fork in his broom closet - something, anything. . yup. magicly make everygun on earth vanish. and this will still happen 22 children stabbed in china school attack None of them died. |
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I gotta say, your fault, my fault, I don't care who's fault it was, it p*sses me off to no end that not one person in that whole building was prepared to even remotely defend those kids against an attacker, other than throwing themselves across the next victim. It looks like if he had had a sharp sword he would have slayed untold numbers. ETA - The janitor could have had a pitch fork in his broom closet - something, anything. . They followed SOP. Hide in classroom, close door, pray. put head between legs and kiss your ass goodbye They put the school on lockdown, which we all know is the worst thing to do as it prevents escape. Lockdown also resulted in Police not being able to get in, as first responders did not have breaching tools. Librarian stated she demanded Badge/Photo ID before letting police in from outside. The fact is, we advocate some of the worst possible strategies for survival because we are more concerned with legal liability than saving lives. FIFY sorry, cant have that in school either |
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So.. What is everyone going to do with their mandatory semi-auto gun buyback money? It'll be a lever-action world. I guess we'll all be eating crow in regards to Mossberg's 464. |
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I gotta say, your fault, my fault, I don't care who's fault it was, it p*sses me off to no end that not one person in that whole building was prepared to even remotely defend those kids against an attacker, other than throwing themselves across the next victim. It looks like if he had had a sharp sword he would have slayed untold numbers. ETA - The janitor could have had a pitch fork in his broom closet - something, anything. . yup. magicly make everygun on earth vanish. and this will still happen 22 children stabbed in china school attack None of them died. only because of incompetence of the stabber and the bravery of staff that risked their own life to tackle him. not so lucky in the other attacks cited in the same artical "No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50." "In one of the worst incidents, a man described as an unemployed, middle-aged doctor killed eight children with a knife in March 2010 to vent his anger over a thwarted romantic relationship." |
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Quoted: ME says all were shot with Rifle. Very confusing. And very bad. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Most people would do what they could to protect innocent kids. If you would run away from something like this then you are a coward. Oh really? So simply because I have a CCW, it is my responsibility to sacrifice my life for some kids I've never met? A good man would try to protect children. I know the teachers, kids, and the parents. I couldn't just hide and let someone I know be killed. I don't know any of them. The thought of turning away while the mass murder of children was unfolding wouldn't enter my mind even for a split second. I find such a notion completely unfathomable.
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Quoted: Here is my take on what has happened. For reference, I graduated high school in 1978. During the Carter Administration, legislation was passed and policies were promulgated that made it much harder to institutionalize the mentally ill. Reimbursement for I/P treatment was decreased drastically and many hospitals closed. Most of the patients were released and ended up on the streets homeless. Outpatient treatment became the norm and has by and large been a waste of money and time. Additionally, we have raised a couple generations of children now who really have no idea what the real world is like. I'm talking about the "T-Ball" kids who all got trophies for participating, expecting that that is the way the real world works. We all know that life is unfair, that you don't get recognition just for being in the game. That you get kicked down for no reason at all sometimes, and that a well-adjusted person picks himself up, dusts himself off, and tries again. These children of the baby boomers, and now the children of the X generation, were not taught these lessons as they grew up. Instead, they were pampered, protected, and lied to, so that the parents could feel good about themselves and feel like they were being a "friend" to their kids instead of preparing them for the hard knocks of life, like a parent should. And once these kids grew up into young adults, they didn't know how to cope, saying "it's unfair" and reacted the way you would expect spoiled brats to react. Add in the stupidity of parents who never set limits or took any disciplinary measures towards their kids and this is what you get. Throw in a heavy dose of medication so that Sally Soccermom and the teachers don't have to deal with the natural aggressiveness of young boys, and you have completed the recipe for disaster. This is what the liberal mentality and the pussification of the American male have gotten us. LC Agreed on all points and very well said. |
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will westboro baptist church say the kids died because they liked fags and protest their funerals?
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So.. What is everyone going to do with their mandatory semi-auto gun buyback money? Buy "sniper rifles" |
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So.. What is everyone going to do with their mandatory semi-auto gun buyback money? It'll be a lever-action world. I guess we'll all be eating crow in regards to Mossberg's 464. think we see a railed lever gun in 556 in the near future? |
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http://www.madd.org/assets/images/icons/twitter_new_logo.gif In 2010, 211 children were killed in drunk driving crashes. Out of those 211 deaths, 131 (62 percent) were riding with the drunk driver.
Where is the outrage over this statistic? Seems all the drunk driving laws on the book still cannot stop things like this from happening. No guns used. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I gotta say, your fault, my fault, I don't care who's fault it was, it p*sses me off to no end that not one person in that whole building was prepared to even remotely defend those kids against an attacker, other than throwing themselves across the next victim. It looks like if he had had a sharp sword he would have slayed untold numbers. ETA - The janitor could have had a pitch fork in his broom closet - something, anything. . yup. magicly make everygun on earth vanish. and this will still happen 22 children stabbed in china school attack None of them died. only because of incompetence of the stabber and the bravery of staff that risked their own life to tackle him. not so lucky in the other attacks cited in the same artical "No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50." "In one of the worst incidents, a man described as an unemployed, middle-aged doctor killed eight children with a knife in March 2010 to vent his anger over a thwarted romantic relationship." None of these incidents is particularly new to humans. It crosses time and cultures. Mankind is what needs to change for them to stop. Not tools. |
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<snip> None of these incidents is particularly new to humans. It crosses time and cultures. Mankind is what needs to change for them to stop. Not tools. Thanks for the link .... my granddad called going berserk - "went bear-sack" ... |
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So.. What is everyone going to do with their mandatory semi-auto gun buyback money? It'll be a lever-action world. I guess we'll all be eating crow in regards to Mossberg's 464. think we see a railed lever gun in 556 in the near future? Not unless you replace the spitzer bullets for round nose. Can't have those sharp tips bumping into primers. |
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tree slashed and burned think we see a railed lever gun in 556 in the near future? Not unless you replace the spitzer bullets for round nose. Can't have those sharp tips bumping into primers. Could be magazine fed, loaded with standard 10 round stripper clips |
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Are you guys so resigned to a semi auto ban that you're acutely discussing lever-action as a substitute?
Fuck that. I won't comply even if it costs me my life. It's going to cost me my liberty either way. |
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So.. What is everyone going to do with their mandatory semi-auto gun buyback money? It'll be a lever-action world. I guess we'll all be eating crow in regards to Mossberg's 464. think we see a railed lever gun in 556 in the near future? Why don't we not give up and assume we'll be using lever guns. You're programing yourself to go along with it, and accept it. The GOP has the house, a ban is no sure thing. |
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The crazy guy standing on the street corner, having an argument with the street sign and shitting his pants...he can buy and possess firearms. It doesnt matter that he's insane, homeless, self medicating with alcohol. But because people like him sometimes resort to mass shootings the legislative and executive branches want to ban semiautomatic rifles, handguns, pump and semi shotguns, ect for ALL of us. Screw that. Throw crazy into a state mental hospital and leave the rest of us alone. If state hospitals cant be brought back and the public demands that congress simply MUST pass some new gun bans, then make it a prohibition on the possession of firearms for the crazies. Though i prefer the sate mental hospital route myself as it will actually solve several problems unrelated to gun violence at the same time. Define crazy....thats the issue with any mental health approach to prohibiting gun ownership. We won't get into the fact that the guns here were stolen and any new law wouldn't have applied, because that logical |
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ME says all were shot with Rifle. Big time repercussions if true. |
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The crazy guy standing on the street corner, having an argument with the street sign and shitting his pants...he can buy and possess firearms. It doesnt matter that he's insane, homeless, self medicating with alcohol. But because people like him sometimes resort to mass shootings the legislative and executive branches want to ban semiautomatic rifles, handguns, pump and semi shotguns, ect for ALL of us. Screw that. Throw crazy into a state mental hospital and leave the rest of us alone. If state hospitals cant be brought back and the public demands that congress simply MUST pass some new gun bans, then make it a prohibition on the possession of firearms for the crazies. Though i prefer the sate mental hospital route myself as it will actually solve several problems unrelated to gun violence at the same time. Define crazy....thats the issue with any mental health approach to prohibiting gun ownership. We won't get into the fact that the guns here were stolen and any new law wouldn't have applied, because that logical Not to mention in CT on top of it. |
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ME says all were shot with Rifle. Big time repercussions if true. Restrictive laws on 'assault rifles' are a given now imo. Or a real attempt at that from Obama on down. Not being negative here just guessing a realistic outcome from this and the Colorado shooting so close together. |
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well it's sad on both ends!
the shitz comin, and will probably/will pass! best ya can hope for now is the old ban!.................suck it up! it's comin your way in a heartbeat! |
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