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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:22:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine if the NRA actually had teeth like this guy, with the funding they have.... But no, of course they don't. Metro is worried about his suits. No shit. Has there been any mention of forced reset triggers by the NRA? I let my membership go last year, so no more magazines with Fudd lore. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:23:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No shit. Has there been any mention of forced reset triggers by the NRA? I let my membership go last year, so no more magazines with Fudd lore. They were ok with bump stock banning so it's highly unlikely they would support a forced reset trigger  I've never given them a dime and definitely won't with that jackwagon at the helm. |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 9:42:12 AM EDT
[#3]
I regret not buying one earlier. I don’t even want one so much as to just support the cause.
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Posted: 5/19/2022 10:55:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't want one, but I'd donate to fuck .gov I may have missed the obvious - where did you donate? |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 11:39:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine being the ATF officer who show up armed, and steals $650K in private property at gunpoint, then apologizes for being a Government thug knowingly breaking the law because you feel guilty for breaking your oaths... But not guilty enough to go on TV or be interviewed by a talking head, or whistleblow to a senator or congressman.. He WILL be on the witness stand subject to examination by the plaintiff. That is potentially far more important than a 30 second TV clip. |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 11:51:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Excellent.
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Posted: 5/19/2022 12:01:33 PM EDT
[#7]
All of the "NR" guys on gunbroker selling FRT-15's glow oh so bright. Be careful.
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Posted: 5/19/2022 4:41:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a Gen 1 FRT. If they put the Gen 2 up on their website, my credit card would have scorch marks from how fast it left my wallet. Same, same. |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 4:41:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a Gen 1 FRT. If they put the Gen 2 up on their website, my credit card would have scorch marks from how fast it left my wallet. Same, same. |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 4:45:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sad RBT has to finance this whilst the NRA budget is aimed toward clothing. I’ve kicked $800 to the cause. |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 4:49:59 PM EDT
[#11]
I just wish that Rare Breed would launch an FRT for the 249s to realy rattle their jimmies. |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 4:50:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I may have missed the obvious - where did you donate? I would donate, I haven't donated |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 7:11:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the FRT is such a dangerous machine gun. They left boxes of them in a parking lot as a trap…. Dicks! It was so dangerous they left hundreds lying unsecured in a parking lot for any white supremacist to grab... Criminal! Seriously though, the lawsuit looks good. They will win if the judge is impartial and follows the law. Just checked the Alamo-15, the Wide Open Triggers and a few others. None are being sold except on gunbroker. For ridiculous amounts. |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 7:23:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve got a 10.5 SBR. I should get one of these, clone a colt commando, grow a pony tail and start wearing grey suits. 
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Posted: 5/19/2022 10:35:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just wish that Rare Breed would launch an FRT for the 249s to realy rattle their jimmies. |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 10:46:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Say it with me: MP5 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just wish that Rare Breed would launch an FRT for the 249s to realy rattle their jimmies. WANT |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 10:58:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Hopefully they win their case and can focus on a 1919 trigger.
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Posted: 5/19/2022 11:15:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WANT Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just wish that Rare Breed would launch an FRT for the 249s to realy rattle their jimmies. WANT Yes ?? |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 6:25:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just wish that Rare Breed would launch an FRT for the 249s to realy rattle their jimmies. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/You-want-belt-fed-This-thread-is-how-you-get-belt-fed-/5-2524525/ |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:20:07 PM EDT
[#20]
A bump for anyone who may have missed this thread so far.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:25:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hopefully they win their case and can focus on a 1919 trigger. Market is too small. MP5 resurgence is a good market now. Still tiny compared to the AR market, but demand may be high enough to push it. Decades of originals and clones being made for the MP5 and the ability to swap trigger packs may make it more appealing. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 3:04:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Rare breed needs a cash only outlet store in every state.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 3:06:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rare breed needs a cash only outlet store in every state. I imagine it's not the same in California but here in Montana there are a bunch of small gun stores selling the FRTs for cash. It warms my heart! 
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Posted: 5/20/2022 3:20:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Say it with me: MP5 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just wish that Rare Breed would launch an FRT for the 249s to realy rattle their jimmies. I'm not sure you could get on to work on most semi auto MP5's because the bolts generally have the full auto sear trip milled off. Most of the recently manufactured receivers have a block to prevent you from installing an unmodified bolt. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 4:17:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve got a 10.5 SBR. I should get one of these, clone a colt commando, grow a pony tail and start wearing grey suits. Doooo eeeet |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 4:56:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Someone needs to take their legal M-16 (full auto, not 3-round burst) and do a demo with it and the FRT-15 as a comparison. They will be able to show that the full-auto M-16 trigger stays in the rearward position as the magazine empties vs. the FRT-15 moving forward and resetting after each shot, therefore making it semi-auto. Video it in slow-motion for all to see the difference. The law doesn't define how fast a semi-auto can fire, just how it operates, and it is legal per the letter of the law. I hope Rare Breed tears the ATF a new one on this case.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 4:59:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just wish that Rare Breed would launch an FRT for the 249s to realy rattle their jimmies.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 4:59:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Someone should bring RICO charges against them and get the org dissolved and outlawed.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 5:02:36 PM EDT
[#29]
I read the complaint. It is decent. I note that they are represented by two Florida lawyers with no local counsel in ND. The local rules of the U.S. District Court for the District of North Dakota allow any lawyer from anywhere in the country to be admitted to the bar of the court, so I imagine that is what they did. We should expect the government to file a very technical motion to dismiss based grounded in administrative law under the APA. This will not be a case based on the Constitution, other than the 5th Amendment right to due process.
They certainly have my interest. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 5:19:46 PM EDT
[#30]
I'd like to point out that something is different about this attempt (and JSD Tactical's with 80%s)
ATF (and other regulatory agencies) have long managed to escape attention because to be honest, it was really, really hard to get ahold of these papers in lawsuits and other court cases. At best, you'd maybe read a brief blurb about this in Shotgun News, Machine Gun News, First Freedoms, etc. But now? In 2022? We can all download instantly the PDF version of the complaint filed with the court; and then see ATF's response, etc etc. I can't understate how important this is. You're already seeing the after effects of "almost every court case is available shortly after filing if you know the court #" with the JSD 80% case; where JSD lists a long and lengthy list of specific ATF technical documents, ATF technical rulings; with specific document numbers and document dates. Guess what? Now the whole 2A community knows about those; and is frantically looking to download copies of those (especially if attached as exhibit A through G to a filing). ATF and others can't hide behind obfuscation anymore. Also; the JSD Tactical list of ATF regs/rules/etc could only have come about if other people, companies, and lawyers were in contact with JSD Tactical and volunteered the information. We're finally getting away from "stovepiping" information as "need to know"; i.e. if DickSmasher Tactical got an ATF approval letter on something, usually they didn't share. But now, DickSmasher Tactical hears that JSD is in trouble and so says "Hey, JSD, here's what I got when I had some problems a bit back." That's huge. I don't think ATF (and DOJ) have quite figured out that the rules of the game are changing... 
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Posted: 5/20/2022 5:26:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone needs to take their legal M-16 (full auto, not 3-round burst) and do a demo with it and the FRT-15 as a comparison. They will be able to show that the full-auto M-16 trigger stays in the rearward position as the magazine empties vs. the FRT-15 moving forward and resetting after each shot, therefore making it semi-auto. Video it in slow-motion for all to see the difference. The law doesn't define how fast a semi-auto can fire, just how it operates, and it is legal per the letter of the law. I hope Rare Breed tears the ATF a new one on this case. According to AFT, the trigger reset is an automated action, not the shooter's, any additional "trigger pulls" are a continuation of the initial single pull. *definition\interpretation, it's all BS. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 6:18:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is, trigger reset "doesn't matter". AFT changed the definition* of MG, action of firearm - "function of the trigger", to 'action of the shooter(trigger pull, and release per shot)'. According to AFT, the trigger reset is an automated action, not the shooter's, any additional "trigger pulls" are a continuation of the initial single pull. *definition\interpretation, it's all BS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Someone needs to take their legal M-16 (full auto, not 3-round burst) and do a demo with it and the FRT-15 as a comparison. They will be able to show that the full-auto M-16 trigger stays in the rearward position as the magazine empties vs. the FRT-15 moving forward and resetting after each shot, therefore making it semi-auto. Video it in slow-motion for all to see the difference. The law doesn't define how fast a semi-auto can fire, just how it operates, and it is legal per the letter of the law. I hope Rare Breed tears the ATF a new one on this case. According to AFT, the trigger reset is an automated action, not the shooter's, any additional "trigger pulls" are a continuation of the initial single pull. *definition\interpretation, it's all BS. By their definition, a Glock 19 is a machinegun. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 6:25:21 PM EDT
[#33]
chevron will prevail until overturned.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 6:42:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Say it with me: MP5 I heard through the grapevine that the frt triggers work in PSA ar-v's. And will mag dump a 35rds of 9mm in under 7 seconds. But that's just what I've heard..... https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-v-7-9mm-1-10-nitride-tri-lug-pdw-pistol.html |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 6:47:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone needs to take their legal M-16 (full auto, not 3-round burst) and do a demo with it and the FRT-15 as a comparison. They will be able to show that the full-auto M-16 trigger stays in the rearward position as the magazine empties vs. the FRT-15 moving forward and resetting after each shot, therefore making it semi-auto. Video it in slow-motion for all to see the difference. The law doesn't define how fast a semi-auto can fire, just how it operates, and it is legal per the letter of the law. I hope Rare Breed tears the ATF a new one on this case. Ask and ye shall receive https://youtu.be/QDQEdQLxBn8  FRT-15 Vs An Actual Machine Gun |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 7:14:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: chevron will prevail until overturned. Already done Chevron does not apply to criminal statutes. Of which. Arms laws are written as criminal statutes To quote Scalia in Crandon v US ”Second, the vast body of administrative interpretation that exists -innumerable advisory opinions not only of the Attorney General, the OLC, and the Office of Government Ethics, but also of the Comptroller General and the general counsels for various agencies -is not an administrative inter- pretation that is entitled to deference under Chevron U. S. A. Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., 467 U. S. 837 (1984). The law in question, a criminal statute, is not administered by any agency but by the courts.” ”we have never thought that the interpretation of those charged with pros- ecuting criminal statutes is entitled to deference”. Page 26 |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 12:19:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask and ye shall receive https://youtu.be/QDQEdQLxBn8  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDQEdQLxBn8Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Someone needs to take their legal M-16 (full auto, not 3-round burst) and do a demo with it and the FRT-15 as a comparison. They will be able to show that the full-auto M-16 trigger stays in the rearward position as the magazine empties vs. the FRT-15 moving forward and resetting after each shot, therefore making it semi-auto. Video it in slow-motion for all to see the difference. The law doesn't define how fast a semi-auto can fire, just how it operates, and it is legal per the letter of the law. I hope Rare Breed tears the ATF a new one on this case. Ask and ye shall receive https://youtu.be/QDQEdQLxBn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDQEdQLxBn8Yes, this should be taken and used against the ATF for its evidentiary value. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 7:43:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, this should be taken and used against the ATF for its evidentiary value. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Someone needs to take their legal M-16 (full auto, not 3-round burst) and do a demo with it and the FRT-15 as a comparison. They will be able to show that the full-auto M-16 trigger stays in the rearward position as the magazine empties vs. the FRT-15 moving forward and resetting after each shot, therefore making it semi-auto. Video it in slow-motion for all to see the difference. The law doesn't define how fast a semi-auto can fire, just how it operates, and it is legal per the letter of the law. I hope Rare Breed tears the ATF a new one on this case. Ask and ye shall receive https://youtu.be/QDQEdQLxBn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDQEdQLxBn8Yes, this should be taken and used against the ATF for its evidentiary value. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 11:05:40 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No shit. Has there been any mention of forced reset triggers by the NRA? I let my membership go last year, so no more magazines with Fudd lore. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Imagine if the NRA actually had teeth like this guy, with the funding they have.... But no, of course they don't. Metro is worried about his suits. No shit. Has there been any mention of forced reset triggers by the NRA? I let my membership go last year, so no more magazines with Fudd lore. It’s simple math Never will be It would be a campaign of diminishing returns Big money lobbies etc will NEVER gut the unconstitutional arms laws in America It would destroy their organizations need for existence and put them out of business |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 11:15:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were ok with bump stock banning so it's highly unlikely they would support a forced reset trigger I've never given them a dime and definitely won't with that jackwagon at the helm. They were also ok with the 86 machinegun ban. The NRA is not a friend to the second. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 11:33:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sad RBT has to finance this whilst the NRA budget is aimed toward clothing. Well, they kinda priced it into their triggers. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 12:22:41 PM EDT
[#42]
I like where they're going.
1. They have multiple former technical branch agents, who the ATF themselves had qualified in criminal trials about MG definitions review it. The underlying criminal statutes ('34 NFA +'68 GCA + '86 FOPA) hasn't been changed in 35 years, so either these guys never were experts or they still are. 2. Timing is good, Chevron deference isn't going to fly very well when the underlying statues are pure criminal ones. The venue selection is on point for this. 3. The ATF appears to be stepping on their dicks. Leaving the unsecured triggers as either bait or gross incompetence is a nice one. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 12:34:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask and ye shall receive https://youtu.be/QDQEdQLxBn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDQEdQLxBn8That video taught me the FRT forced reset sets the trigger a bit beyond the moment the trigger will trip, meaning there is a tiny bit the shooter is actually pulling the trigger and the process is not a continuation of the initial trigger pull. It shows that really well in the slow motion clip and really shows how bullshit the AFT's case is. |
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Posted: 5/23/2022 10:12:08 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Already done Chevron does not apply to criminal statutes. Of which. Arms laws are written as criminal statutes To quote Scalia in Crandon v US ”Second, the vast body of administrative interpretation that exists -innumerable advisory opinions not only of the Attorney General, the OLC, and the Office of Government Ethics, but also of the Comptroller General and the general counsels for various agencies -is not an administrative inter- pretation that is entitled to deference under Chevron U. S. A. Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., 467 U. S. 837 (1984). The law in question, a criminal statute, is not administered by any agency but by the courts.” ”we have never thought that the interpretation of those charged with pros- ecuting criminal statutes is entitled to deference”. Page 26 Thank you for posting that! |
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Posted: 5/23/2022 10:20:30 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was so dangerous they left hundreds lying unsecured in a parking lot for any white supremacist to grab... Criminal! Their Ultra MEGA MAGA white guy that was supposed to pick them up for the false flag operation had his phone on mute. |
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Posted: 5/23/2022 10:27:41 AM EDT
[#46]
OMG the shoestring machinegun is dredged up in the lawsuit! Reading this thing is fascinating.
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Posted: 5/23/2022 11:47:00 AM EDT
[#47]
well be nice if they actually had some to sell...
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Posted: 5/23/2022 11:54:09 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By their definition, a Glock 19 is a machinegun. I'm sure they would agree |
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Posted: 5/23/2022 12:02:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That video taught me the FRT forced reset sets the trigger a bit beyond the moment the trigger will trip, meaning there is a tiny bit the shooter is actually pulling the trigger and the process is not a continuation of the initial trigger pull. It shows that really well in the slow motion clip and really shows how bullshit the AFT's case is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ask and ye shall receive https://youtu.be/QDQEdQLxBn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDQEdQLxBn8That video taught me the FRT forced reset sets the trigger a bit beyond the moment the trigger will trip, meaning there is a tiny bit the shooter is actually pulling the trigger and the process is not a continuation of the initial trigger pull. It shows that really well in the slow motion clip and really shows how bullshit the AFT's case is. Makes sense why the aft motioned to suppress any and all evidence from the plaintiff, lol. Between the multiple escorts testifying, slow mo vids, diagrams, etc- it's pretty clear cut that this is not a machine gun. |
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Posted: 5/23/2022 1:34:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were also ok with the 86 machinegun ban. The NRA is not a friend to the second. No. The NRA funding Farmer v. Higgins, challenging the machine gun ban. The NRA lost. https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/59148970add7b0493450278b |
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