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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:21:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did someone say thrown track? I broke the shit out of it. 
Hohenfels, circa 1980. http://www.narruc.net/Public/pix/m60a1.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ever have to change a #1-position torsion bar? How about breaking a rear torsion bar, and having the fragments puncture the fuel tank? OH FUCKING JOY...I'd rather swap out final drives or install a new seal on the driver's escape hatch instead.... Of course. Any M60-series tanker routinely broke torsion bars. #1 and #6 usually resulted in thrown track. Though any broken torsion bar made that a likely event. We threw track/broke track a LOT more on the 60-series. It really was a revelation going to M1's. It had to have been like when pilots went from props to jets. This is like considering bringing back the Douglas A-1 Skyraider. The problem with the M60A3 isn't that the 105mm main gun is inadequate. Nor is 200 extra horsepower going to bring that platform up to modern standards. The problem is the entire package. You can't put radial tires and a tiny turbocharger on a 1961 Porsche 356b and expect those changes to make it competitive in the 2016 24 Hours of Le Mans. Did someone say thrown track? I broke the shit out of it.
Hohenfels, circa 1980. http://www.narruc.net/Public/pix/m60a1.jpg Oh shit... |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:34:46 PM EDT
[#2]
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Hohenfels, circa 1980. That picture reminds me of an incident. Let's just say that draping one's fartsack over the Hoffman device to air it out is a bad idea. Particularly if there is a possibility of OPFOR aggression anytime in the immediate future. Just sayin'. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:47:33 PM EDT
[#3]
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I wanted to be a tanker when i enlisted, but then the recruiter found out that my parents were married when i was concieved so i was disqualified. I laughed...You fucker.... |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:50:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question for our resident tank experts. Why does the barrel have that profile, with the larger diameter section? |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:54:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wanted to be a tanker when i enlisted, but then the recruiter found out that my parents were married when i was concieved so i was disqualified. Well, you can't spell worth a fuck, so I'm guessing you were 71L. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:55:40 PM EDT
[#6]
As a D8 Master Gunner, I feel eminently qualified to agree with Sumo6's assessment.
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You really cannot have Aft Caps bouncing around next to the 13 rd ready rack shown above. And the suspension is not going to handle the 950 HP motor and I saw nothing in the article about suspension up grades... And yeah, you have not lived until you have to replace a broken torsion bar with a sledge and the tankers bar. But like another poster said, this has been done several times before.. these upgrades are not meant for the US market, this was always meant for foreign sales. I have no problem selling these to over sea's customers, so when they turn them on us, it will make it easier to smoke check them. The Autobahn seat was pretty awesome for radio watch though.... 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:01:29 PM EDT
[#7]
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I miss the A1 we had <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/855D906A-0015-43A2-AD58-AC8572193616_zpslsas4l6u.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/855D906A-0015-43A2-AD58-AC8572193616_zpslsas4l6u.jpg</a> <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/DDFA2BE7-EE3A-400B-8A19-97071FD10AC1_zpsrpxfmarp.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/DDFA2BE7-EE3A-400B-8A19-97071FD10AC1_zpsrpxfmarp.jpg</a> Is that Robert Morgan and his wife in the first picture? |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:02:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that Robert Morgan and his wife in the first picture? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I miss the A1 we had <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/855D906A-0015-43A2-AD58-AC8572193616_zpslsas4l6u.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/855D906A-0015-43A2-AD58-AC8572193616_zpslsas4l6u.jpg</a> <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/DDFA2BE7-EE3A-400B-8A19-97071FD10AC1_zpsrpxfmarp.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/DDFA2BE7-EE3A-400B-8A19-97071FD10AC1_zpsrpxfmarp.jpg</a> Is that Robert Morgan and his wife in the first picture? Yes, I gave him his first tank ride in that tank. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:05:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wonder who the buyer would be....Taiwan? I hear Germany is low on tanks.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:09:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hear Germany is low on tanks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wonder who the buyer would be....Taiwan? I hear Germany is low on tanks. Oh,they have plenty of armor... 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:16:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Lots of good pics. Keep 'em coming!
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:16:20 PM EDT
[#12]
M60s -- not just for reefs any more...
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:16:56 PM EDT
[#13]
I saw an M3 grease gun! I remember seeing plenty of them at Hood.
I wasn't a tanker so I didn't get to mess with any. 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:18:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw an M3 grease gun! I remember seeing plenty of them at Hood. I wasn't a tanker so I didn't get to mess with any. You're not missing anything...we were ecstatic when we traded those stamped pieces of dog shit in for M16A2s. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:29:50 PM EDT
[#15]
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You're not missing anything...we were ecstatic when we traded those stamped pieces of dog shit in for M16A2s. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I saw an M3 grease gun! I remember seeing plenty of them at Hood. I wasn't a tanker so I didn't get to mess with any. You're not missing anything...we were ecstatic when we traded those stamped pieces of dog shit in for M16A2s. Ditto All we ever did was fam-fire with them. If there was any sort of qualification on those I'm not aware of it. Damn hard to hit anything with them. My first PSG said "Aim at the crotch. Anything longer than a three-shot burst and you'll be shooting over the target." And he was right. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:30:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You sure did! Definitely 1980 as no smoke dischargers nor MILES gear to accompany the Hoffmann device.... Ever attach a length of comm wire to the bare wire ends of the Hoffmann charges, then connect to a 9-volt battery? Makes for an AWESOME flash-bang! We used to do that to flush out cornered OPFOR guys....the only fun involving MILES gear! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did someone say thrown track? I broke the shit out of it. Hohenfels, circa 1980. http://www.narruc.net/Public/pix/m60a1.jpg You sure did! Definitely 1980 as no smoke dischargers nor MILES gear to accompany the Hoffmann device.... Ever attach a length of comm wire to the bare wire ends of the Hoffmann charges, then connect to a 9-volt battery? Makes for an AWESOME flash-bang! We used to do that to flush out cornered OPFOR guys....the only fun involving MILES gear! Those were "new" 1st gen Rise Passive models we received right after I arrived in Germany at the end of '78. My unit (3/64 AR) still had A2s when I got there. In addition to getting a real gun, the M240 was a helluva coax replacement for the M73/219. I didn't see MILES gear until after I PCS'd to Ft Riley. We were possibly one of the first units to try them as I remember a bunch of manufacturer reps (retired tankers) going out with us the first time. And with a judicious application of electrical tape those Hoffman charges would go off under water.  |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:31:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're not missing anything...we were ecstatic when we traded those stamped pieces of dog shit in for M16A2s. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I saw an M3 grease gun! I remember seeing plenty of them at Hood. I wasn't a tanker so I didn't get to mess with any. You're not missing anything...we were ecstatic when we traded those stamped pieces of dog shit in for M16A2s. You can't go all 'Dirty Dozen" with a M16A2..... Eat Lead Commies...... |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:48:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Poles are serious as a heart attack about their tank arm and they won't buy Russian so they have to look at other countries who build a good tank that they can actually afford more than 12 of. Leos were at a (ridiculously) reasonable price point for them but if that dries up they'll have to look elsewhere for MBTs and I don't think they would be willing to pay what France or the UK would charge for theirs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wonder who the buyer would be....Taiwan? Baits won't buy it, Poles probably don't need it, perhaps the others. The Poles are serious as a heart attack about their tank arm and they won't buy Russian so they have to look at other countries who build a good tank that they can actually afford more than 12 of. Leos were at a (ridiculously) reasonable price point for them but if that dries up they'll have to look elsewhere for MBTs and I don't think they would be willing to pay what France or the UK would charge for theirs. The Poles won't buy Russian, but they don't have a problem producing their own upgraded version of the T-72. PT-91 Twardy 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:03:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Every time I read an article about bringing back old weapons systems, it makes me sad. Why can't we have NEW things? Half the planes in the Air Force are 100 years old, the Army has ancient vehicles, why aren't we buying new, clean sheet designs? It really can't cost that much more than maintaining out of date stuff.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:30:35 PM EDT
[#20]
I liked the General Dynamics Land Systems M60-120 (aka M60-2000) upgrade proposal much better. They completely replaced the M60 turret with the turret/gun of the M1A1 and made engine, transmission and suspension upgrades. You could take an existing M60 tank and upgrade it to the M60-120 standard for about $2.5 million, which is well less than half the cost for a new build M1A2 Abrams. If I were going to consider modernizing the M60 tank for use against current threats, the M60-120 would be much more survivable. The M60 turret sucks and must be replaced along with the 105mm gun for it to stand a chance against modern MBTs.
If it is Russia we are concerned about here...and that is my take based on the mention of the T-90 and T-14, then we should pull whatever M60s we have out of storage, donate them to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and let them upgrade them to the M60-120 standard. They could buy about 2.5 of them for the same cost as a single new build Abrams or Leopard would cost, yet still retain 80+% of the capability. The M60-120 would be far more capable than the shitty ass T-55 and T-72 variants some of those nations currently use. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:39:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every time I read an article about bringing back old weapons systems, it makes me sad. Why can't we have NEW things? Half the planes in the Air Force are 100 years old, the Army has ancient vehicles, why aren't we buying new, clean sheet designs? It really can't cost that much more than maintaining out of date stuff. F-35 |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:55:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course. Any M60-series tanker routinely broke torsion bars. #1 and #6 usually resulted in thrown track. Though any broken torsion bar made that a likely event. We threw track/broke track a LOT more on the 60-series. It really was a revelation going to M1's. It had to have been like when pilots went from props to jets. This is like considering bringing back the Douglas A-1 Skyraider. The problem with the M60A3 isn't that the 105mm main gun is inadequate. Nor is 200 extra horsepower going to bring that platform up to modern standards. The problem is the entire package. You can't put radial tires and a tiny turbocharger on a 1961 Porsche 356b and expect those changes to make it competitive in the 2016 24 Hours of Le Mans. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ever have to change a #1-position torsion bar? How about breaking a rear torsion bar, and having the fragments puncture the fuel tank? OH FUCKING JOY...I'd rather swap out final drives or install a new seal on the driver's escape hatch instead.... Of course. Any M60-series tanker routinely broke torsion bars. #1 and #6 usually resulted in thrown track. Though any broken torsion bar made that a likely event. We threw track/broke track a LOT more on the 60-series. It really was a revelation going to M1's. It had to have been like when pilots went from props to jets. This is like considering bringing back the Douglas A-1 Skyraider. The problem with the M60A3 isn't that the 105mm main gun is inadequate. Nor is 200 extra horsepower going to bring that platform up to modern standards. The problem is the entire package. You can't put radial tires and a tiny turbocharger on a 1961 Porsche 356b and expect those changes to make it competitive in the 2016 24 Hours of Le Mans. I think you might be missing the point, these wouldn't be for us. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:10:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw an M3 grease gun! I remember seeing plenty of them at Hood.
I wasn't a tanker so I didn't get to mess with any.
I was a Tanker and I never saw one except in the manuals. I used to drive M60A3's, they were quite the beasts but don't hold a candle to M1's. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 1:28:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like it. Wish they would make a new tank though. The next war is probably not going to be in Europe. I'd like to see a smaller Sherman style tank that could be taken down for overseas or air transport, ready made to assemble quickly once a beach head has been established. I believe that large numbers of light easily transportable and easily rebuilt tanks would be better. I mean if we are going to seriously project force over seas, we should have a small tank that is purpose designed to be transported by barge and transport plane. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like it. Wish they would make a new tank though. The next war is probably not going to be in Europe. I'd like to see a smaller Sherman style tank that could be taken down for overseas or air transport, ready made to assemble quickly once a beach head has been established. I believe that large numbers of light easily transportable and easily rebuilt tanks would be better. I mean if we are going to seriously project force over seas, we should have a small tank that is purpose designed to be transported by barge and transport plane. We already made one. M8. 
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Posted: 5/12/2016 1:28:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The M60A1 would have been great if they had left that ridiculous mini turret off it and used a regular commanders cupola like the Israeli retrofits. Mini turrets infested many of the 1950-1970 US armor designs and they are just worthless.  world of tanks player?
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Posted: 5/12/2016 1:52:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We already made one. M8. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b93/morolesnick/id_m8ags_10_600_zps36b0e3c0.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like it. Wish they would make a new tank though. The next war is probably not going to be in Europe. I'd like to see a smaller Sherman style tank that could be taken down for overseas or air transport, ready made to assemble quickly once a beach head has been established. I believe that large numbers of light easily transportable and easily rebuilt tanks would be better. I mean if we are going to seriously project force over seas, we should have a small tank that is purpose designed to be transported by barge and transport plane. We already made one. M8. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b93/morolesnick/id_m8ags_10_600_zps36b0e3c0.jpg Yup. And it got cancelled. Only a tiny handful of prototypes made. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 3:25:21 PM EDT
[#27]
BTW, what countries that currently operate M60 variants might face a threat from T-90s? The answer to that question will likely tell us who Raytheon is marketing this upgrade to.
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Posted: 5/12/2016 3:36:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. Wiki: Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Raytheon Can Turn Old American-Made M60A3 Tanks Into Killing Machines" Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. Wiki: In early February 1991, US Marines used 200 M60A1s of the 2nd Battalion drove north from Khafji, Saudi Arabia into Kuwait. In Kuwait, they encountered an Iraqi force of T-54/55, Type 69, and T-72 tanks at Kuwait City International Airport. The Marines won this battle, destroying some 100 Iraqi tanks with only one M60A1 lost 2nd Tank Bn had M1A1s, as did the two companies (Companies, "B" from Yakistan WA and "C" from Amarillo TX and Boise ID) from 4th Tank Bn attached to it. 1st, 3rd, and 8th Tank Battalions had M60A1s with ERA. Co. "A" 4th Tanks was aboard ship IIRC. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 3:37:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did someone say thrown track? I broke the shit out of it.
Hohenfels, circa 1980. http://www.narruc.net/Public/pix/m60a1.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Ever have to change a #1-position torsion bar? How about breaking a rear torsion bar, and having the fragments puncture the fuel tank? OH FUCKING JOY...I'd rather swap out final drives or install a new seal on the driver's escape hatch instead.... Of course. Any M60-series tanker routinely broke torsion bars. #1 and #6 usually resulted in thrown track. Though any broken torsion bar made that a likely event. We threw track/broke track a LOT more on the 60-series. It really was a revelation going to M1's. It had to have been like when pilots went from props to jets. This is like considering bringing back the Douglas A-1 Skyraider. The problem with the M60A3 isn't that the 105mm main gun is inadequate. Nor is 200 extra horsepower going to bring that platform up to modern standards. The problem is the entire package. You can't put radial tires and a tiny turbocharger on a 1961 Porsche 356b and expect those changes to make it competitive in the 2016 24 Hours of Le Mans. Did someone say thrown track? I broke the shit out of it.
Hohenfels, circa 1980. http://www.narruc.net/Public/pix/m60a1.jpg AHHHHHH PTSD FLASHBACK!!!! I am so glad I barely missed the M60 era. Started on M1's in OSUT, went to Germany and got on M1A1's, went to war in one, gave it to the motherfucking goat licking boy fucking sister raping piece of shit asshole cum guzzling fucktard Saudis. Returned to Germany tankless. Then got to the states and got back on M1A1's.
Breaking track was rare in an M1 series and not too terrible to replace. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 3:38:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I laughed...You fucker.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I wanted to be a tanker when i enlisted, but then the recruiter found out that my parents were married when i was concieved so i was disqualified. I laughed...You fucker.... 
Fuck you you fucking fuck! And enjoy your cold chow. And if you get behind my tank to warm up I'll Tac Idle your ass. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 4:09:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wonder who the buyer would be....Taiwan? I hear Germany is low on tanks. Oh,they have plenty of armor... http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/24/article-2612347-1D517BC900000578-225_964x639.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/24/article-2612347-1D51771C00000578-128_964x637.jpg Top pic is of Marders - an IFV, not a tank. As I understand it, the Germans have pretty much sold off all their Leopards as surplus to various countries and only have a couple hundred left for their own use. Now that they are making a half assed attempt at adding back some more troops, there are questions as to where the extra tanks are going to come from, though I believe the production line is still technically open. -K |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 4:17:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I liked the General Dynamics Land Systems M60-120 (aka M60-2000) upgrade proposal much better. They completely replaced the M60 turret with the turret/gun of the M1A1 and made engine, transmission and suspension upgrades. You could take an existing M60 tank and upgrade it to the M60-120 standard for about $2.5 million, which is well less than half the cost for a new build M1A2 Abrams. If I were going to consider modernizing the M60 tank for use against current threats, the M60-120 would be much more survivable. The M60 turret sucks and must be replaced along with the 105mm gun for it to stand a chance against modern MBTs. http://www.military-today.com/tanks/120s_l1.jpg http://i59.fastpic.ru/big/2013/1029/11/e262d8ed673df90cdc9404b804f57611.jpg http://i51.servimg.com/u/f51/12/81/73/00/m60-2010.jpg If it is Russia we are concerned about here...and that is my take based on the mention of the T-90 and T-14, then we should pull whatever M60s we have out of storage, donate them to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and let them upgrade them to the M60-120 standard. They could buy about 2.5 of them for the same cost as a single new build Abrams or Leopard would cost, yet still retain 80+% of the capability. The M60-120 would be far more capable than the shitty ass T-55 and T-72 variants some of those nations currently use. I think I kind of agree with this. It's an interesting concept, though I wonder how it compares to the later model Israeli and Turkish mods in both capability and price. I am also wondering, for all it's flaws on a modern battlefield against modern opposition, is an M-60A3 at least better than nothing if they can be rapidly and cheaply procured? -K |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 4:49:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Top pic is of Marders - an IFV, not a tank. As I understand it, the Germans have pretty much sold off all their Leopards as surplus to various countries and only have a couple hundred left for their own use. Now that they are making a half assed attempt at adding back some more troops, there are questions as to where the extra tanks are going to come from, though I believe the production line is still technically open. -K Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Wonder who the buyer would be....Taiwan? I hear Germany is low on tanks. Oh,they have plenty of armor... http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/24/article-2612347-1D517BC900000578-225_964x639.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/24/article-2612347-1D51771C00000578-128_964x637.jpg Top pic is of Marders - an IFV, not a tank. As I understand it, the Germans have pretty much sold off all their Leopards as surplus to various countries and only have a couple hundred left for their own use. Now that they are making a half assed attempt at adding back some more troops, there are questions as to where the extra tanks are going to come from, though I believe the production line is still technically open. -K They can make new Leo IIA7+,but they're expensive. You're looking at 8-10 million USD a pop. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 4:55:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOnly armor addition was a side skirt and some slat armor around the turret sides? What can the base M60 turret armor stop? |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 6:08:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2nd Tank Bn had M1A1s, as did the two companies (Companies, "B" from Yakistan WA and "C" from Amarillo TX and Boise ID) from 4th Tank Bn attached to it. 1st, 3rd, and 8th Tank Battalions had M60A1s with ERA. Co. "A" 4th Tanks was aboard ship IIRC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"Raytheon Can Turn Old American-Made M60A3 Tanks Into Killing Machines" Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. Wiki: In early February 1991, US Marines used 200 M60A1s of the 2nd Battalion drove north from Khafji, Saudi Arabia into Kuwait. In Kuwait, they encountered an Iraqi force of T-54/55, Type 69, and T-72 tanks at Kuwait City International Airport. The Marines won this battle, destroying some 100 Iraqi tanks with only one M60A1 lost 2nd Tank Bn had M1A1s, as did the two companies (Companies, "B" from Yakistan WA and "C" from Amarillo TX and Boise ID) from 4th Tank Bn attached to it. 1st, 3rd, and 8th Tank Battalions had M60A1s with ERA. Co. "A" 4th Tanks was aboard ship IIRC. Alpha Company 2nd Tank Battalion was in the 4th MEB, all had M60A1s. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 12:50:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They can make new Leo IIA7+,but they're expensive. You're looking at 8-10 million USD a pop. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wonder who the buyer would be....Taiwan? I hear Germany is low on tanks. Oh,they have plenty of armor... http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/24/article-2612347-1D517BC900000578-225_964x639.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/24/article-2612347-1D51771C00000578-128_964x637.jpg Top pic is of Marders - an IFV, not a tank. As I understand it, the Germans have pretty much sold off all their Leopards as surplus to various countries and only have a couple hundred left for their own use. Now that they are making a half assed attempt at adding back some more troops, there are questions as to where the extra tanks are going to come from, though I believe the production line is still technically open. -K They can make new Leo IIA7+,but they're expensive. You're looking at 8-10 million USD a pop. How much would this come down with a large order? -K |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 1:22:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much would this come down with a large order? -K They might push it to 7 mil a pop, but considering the cost of manufacturing in Germany I doubt they'd be able to push it further. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 1:26:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They might push it to 7 mil a pop, but considering the cost of manufacturing in Germany I doubt they'd be able to push it further. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How much would this come down with a large order? -K They might push it to 7 mil a pop, but considering the cost of manufacturing in Germany I doubt they'd be able to push it further. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 3:38:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This x1,000,000!!! I was a tanker in the Marines in the 1980s on M60A1s....the M60-series are VERY maintenance intensive, the Abrams series required a fraction of the maintenance of the M60s. I still distinctly remember the transition from the M60A1 to the M1A1, it was night and day. Not to mention downsizing from 5 tanks per platoon to only 4 with the M1A1s. I was also an instructor on the AVLBs when the Marine Corps purchased them refurbished in the 1980s. To this day I HATE working on PTO shafts and U-joints. Leave the M60 dead and buried, by the time you re-engineer it, you'd be better off with a refurbished M1A2/M1A1 or Leopard 2. Fuck the M60s. Ever have to change a #1-position torsion bar? How about breaking a rear torsion bar, and having the fragments puncture the fuel tank? OH FUCKING JOY...I'd rather swap out final drives or install a new seal on the driver's escape hatch instead.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm one of very few on this board with ARTEP and gunnery experience in M48A5, M60A3, M1IP and M1A1. That doesn't make me resident expert, but this is a topic I feel I know pretty well. That said, fuck the M60A3. Leave that pile of shit in the past where it's antique ass belongs. Fielding that fucking death trap on the modern battlefield would be a death sentence for the poor fucks shoved into them. Seriously, you'd have to beat my ass unconscious to get me in there with open storage of ammo for the 120. You'd have to padlock the hatches from the outside and I swear the first thing I'd do when I woke up is come hunting the assholes that got me in there. Even if you retrofitted the sophisticated fire detection and suppression system from the M1 into it, it was never designed to carry the ammo for the 120. The M60 has open ready racks and turret floor ammo racks. To modernize this pile of shit into a half-assed modern MBT, you'd need to replace the turret entirely. You cannot safely store the combustible-cased ammo in open racks. It's unconscionable to even consider putting crews in that environment. Beyond that, the M60 series are totally outclassed as MBTs when you consider vehicle profile and automotive abilities. Slow, loud, smoky, thin-skinned and REALLY tall. Tracking displacing M60's on the far side of a berm during force-on-force training was easy as hell. And IMO any country foolish enough to field those shitpiles is putting their national treasury at risk for the mountain of money they're going to have to invest in replacement torsion bars for those fuckers. The M60A3 is dead and buried. It needs to stay that way. This x1,000,000!!! I was a tanker in the Marines in the 1980s on M60A1s....the M60-series are VERY maintenance intensive, the Abrams series required a fraction of the maintenance of the M60s. I still distinctly remember the transition from the M60A1 to the M1A1, it was night and day. Not to mention downsizing from 5 tanks per platoon to only 4 with the M1A1s. I was also an instructor on the AVLBs when the Marine Corps purchased them refurbished in the 1980s. To this day I HATE working on PTO shafts and U-joints. Leave the M60 dead and buried, by the time you re-engineer it, you'd be better off with a refurbished M1A2/M1A1 or Leopard 2. Fuck the M60s. Ever have to change a #1-position torsion bar? How about breaking a rear torsion bar, and having the fragments puncture the fuel tank? OH FUCKING JOY...I'd rather swap out final drives or install a new seal on the driver's escape hatch instead.... This should make you giggle then. 
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