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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:03:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In an airplane the first detail to hunt down is a secondary moment that was ignored. That includes cracks that originate at the edge of a hole. Secondary moments are generally small and produce static stresses that are negligible, but are contributors that can't be ignored when millions of cycles are imposed. Noise aggravates the conditions. I would not classify the attachment in the coaster as secondary. I am willing to bet the external and internal loads were not examined at every connection. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That looks like the other joints so I would imagine they have a template to do the torch cuts on the fishmouth . A lot we don't know on their procedures , filler wire, grinding and epoxy paint could cover up some bad weld . Main problem looks to be the steel used in the vertical pipe column , complete shear failure. Would assume not enough square inches of material and not high enough on the psi rating of said steel . Dynamic load estimate would seem to be the culprit . A semi educated guess . The weld didn't fail. The fucking pipe broke due to fatigue. It wouldn't surprise me to find the fatigue crack initiated at the weld. Show your students the moment at the truss intersection due to the offset load. The two questions we'd want to know is when the crack was visible, the the critical length, then the time to grow to to the essential failure seen. A crack has been visible for a while, but not from the ground. I wonder whether an operator would look at the support bracket joints . This is a typical detail that induces secondary moments that are overlooked or ignored. Indeed. I give a problem with almost that exact offset on a slightly different structure they semester, but most students miss it, even after having it on an assignment. For some reason, they're just terrified of basic vector mechanics. This might actually be a fun problem to give them. Same problem, essentially, but a slightly different part geometry. Maybe they'll actually try because roller coaster  . If I could get some grad students to take my design course, it would be fun to put a small crack at different orientations to the load and compare the effects. As low frequency as the cyclic loading is, I do wonder how long the crack took to grow. This is a case where they will probably be able to tell pretty actually where and when the crack initiated. Hopefully it translates to an inspection of the remaining members, especially assuming they've now been overloaded. In an airplane the first detail to hunt down is a secondary moment that was ignored. That includes cracks that originate at the edge of a hole. Secondary moments are generally small and produce static stresses that are negligible, but are contributors that can't be ignored when millions of cycles are imposed. Noise aggravates the conditions. I would not classify the attachment in the coaster as secondary. I am willing to bet the external and internal loads were not examined at every connection. What's your bet they 'did an FEA' and had a pretty picture that gave them confirmation bias that their design was good? |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:04:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: pros: -It was still doing its job, mostly -They shut the ride down before tragedy cons: -It was noticed by visitors rather than safety inspectors |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:05:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some stiffeners on the outside part of the vertical member opposite the brace would help immensely. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That looks like the other joints so I would imagine they have a template to do the torch cuts on the fishmouth . A lot we don't know on their procedures , filler wire, grinding and epoxy paint could cover up some bad weld . Main problem looks to be the steel used in the vertical pipe column , complete shear failure. Would assume not enough square inches of material and not high enough on the psi rating of said steel . Dynamic load estimate would seem to be the culprit . A semi educated guess . The weld didn't fail. The fucking pipe broke due to fatigue. It looks like they cut into the column to fit the brace. It looks to me like it broke right along the weld, so the weld could be a factor. For a setup like that, they should have just coped the brace and welded it to the column. Better yet, extend the connecting plate further down the column and weld the brace to that. Some stiffeners on the outside part of the vertical member opposite the brace would help immensely. No benefit. The crack is caused by local bending of the tube wall at the bracket. The loads at the top and the bottom of the bracket are not adequately redistributed by the small gusset. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:16:46 AM EDT
[#4]
 Man caught coaster crack on camera: 'There was no urgency' to close the ride | Morning in America |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:18:57 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's your bet they 'did an FEA' and had a pretty picture that gave them confirmation bias that their design was good? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That looks like the other joints so I would imagine they have a template to do the torch cuts on the fishmouth . A lot we don't know on their procedures , filler wire, grinding and epoxy paint could cover up some bad weld . Main problem looks to be the steel used in the vertical pipe column , complete shear failure. Would assume not enough square inches of material and not high enough on the psi rating of said steel . Dynamic load estimate would seem to be the culprit . A semi educated guess . The weld didn't fail. The fucking pipe broke due to fatigue. It wouldn't surprise me to find the fatigue crack initiated at the weld. Show your students the moment at the truss intersection due to the offset load. The two questions we'd want to know is when the crack was visible, the the critical length, then the time to grow to to the essential failure seen. A crack has been visible for a while, but not from the ground. I wonder whether an operator would look at the support bracket joints . This is a typical detail that induces secondary moments that are overlooked or ignored. Indeed. I give a problem with almost that exact offset on a slightly different structure they semester, but most students miss it, even after having it on an assignment. For some reason, they're just terrified of basic vector mechanics. This might actually be a fun problem to give them. Same problem, essentially, but a slightly different part geometry. Maybe they'll actually try because roller coaster . If I could get some grad students to take my design course, it would be fun to put a small crack at different orientations to the load and compare the effects. As low frequency as the cyclic loading is, I do wonder how long the crack took to grow. This is a case where they will probably be able to tell pretty actually where and when the crack initiated. Hopefully it translates to an inspection of the remaining members, especially assuming they've now been overloaded. In an airplane the first detail to hunt down is a secondary moment that was ignored. That includes cracks that originate at the edge of a hole. Secondary moments are generally small and produce static stresses that are negligible, but are contributors that can't be ignored when millions of cycles are imposed. Noise aggravates the conditions. I would not classify the attachment in the coaster as secondary. I am willing to bet the external and internal loads were not examined at every connection. What's your bet they 'did an FEA' and had a pretty picture that gave them confirmation bias that their design was good? Completely unsurprised, and likely one that was more wrong than right. I started quizzing new hires and new guys to my group to find out whether they had any finite element theory training. None had and nowadays any that passes for useful information is OJT and word of mouth on modeling practices. I could tell some stories about bail out cards, discontinuous meshes, applied loads and constraints, and other mini horror stories. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:30:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What’s the name of that show? I used to watch it a long time ago but I can’t remember it. The Red Green Show. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:42:31 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Completely unsurprised, and likely one that was more wrong than right. I started quizzing new hires and new guys to my group to find out whether they had any finite element theory training. None had and nowadays any that passes for useful information is OJT and word of mouth on modeling practices. I could tell some stories about bail out cards, discontinuous meshes, applied loads and constraints, and other mini horror stories. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That looks like the other joints so I would imagine they have a template to do the torch cuts on the fishmouth . A lot we don't know on their procedures , filler wire, grinding and epoxy paint could cover up some bad weld . Main problem looks to be the steel used in the vertical pipe column , complete shear failure. Would assume not enough square inches of material and not high enough on the psi rating of said steel . Dynamic load estimate would seem to be the culprit . A semi educated guess . The weld didn't fail. The fucking pipe broke due to fatigue. It wouldn't surprise me to find the fatigue crack initiated at the weld. Show your students the moment at the truss intersection due to the offset load. The two questions we'd want to know is when the crack was visible, the the critical length, then the time to grow to to the essential failure seen. A crack has been visible for a while, but not from the ground. I wonder whether an operator would look at the support bracket joints . This is a typical detail that induces secondary moments that are overlooked or ignored. Indeed. I give a problem with almost that exact offset on a slightly different structure they semester, but most students miss it, even after having it on an assignment. For some reason, they're just terrified of basic vector mechanics. This might actually be a fun problem to give them. Same problem, essentially, but a slightly different part geometry. Maybe they'll actually try because roller coaster . If I could get some grad students to take my design course, it would be fun to put a small crack at different orientations to the load and compare the effects. As low frequency as the cyclic loading is, I do wonder how long the crack took to grow. This is a case where they will probably be able to tell pretty actually where and when the crack initiated. Hopefully it translates to an inspection of the remaining members, especially assuming they've now been overloaded. In an airplane the first detail to hunt down is a secondary moment that was ignored. That includes cracks that originate at the edge of a hole. Secondary moments are generally small and produce static stresses that are negligible, but are contributors that can't be ignored when millions of cycles are imposed. Noise aggravates the conditions. I would not classify the attachment in the coaster as secondary. I am willing to bet the external and internal loads were not examined at every connection. What's your bet they 'did an FEA' and had a pretty picture that gave them confirmation bias that their design was good? Completely unsurprised, and likely one that was more wrong than right. I started quizzing new hires and new guys to my group to find out whether they had any finite element theory training. None had and nowadays any that passes for useful information is OJT and word of mouth on modeling practices. I could tell some stories about bail out cards, discontinuous meshes, applied loads and constraints, and other mini horror stories. Every additional step of automation in that regard just continues to scare the shit out of me. I don't allow FEA in my design class. I say this repeatedly and still get students who turn in horribly incorrect FEA as design work with no substantiation. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:44:08 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:45:56 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:47:08 AM EDT
[#10]
Meanwhile, in DC, they have heard about the massive crack and have sent Hunter Biden to investigate.
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Posted: 7/3/2023 1:20:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryWhat are the odds that they'd have a one week old photo of exactly the place that broke, ready to go? |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 3:57:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are the odds that they'd have a one week old photo of exactly the place that broke, ready to go? About the same as the odds they had an inkling there was a problem and hoped it would go away? |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 4:04:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Broke down just in time for summer season, their busiest time of the year.
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Posted: 7/3/2023 4:09:25 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 7/3/2023 4:16:56 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 7/3/2023 4:39:59 PM EDT
[#16]
apologies if already asked:
on a scale of "instantaneously that day" to "over several weeks", how quickly did this fracture develop do you think? Not an engineer, but have a passing acquaintance things breaking. ty. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 4:44:33 PM EDT
[#17]
So, not discovered at all by the park employees & inspectors whose JOB is (or should be) to inspect the thing regularly, but instead by a park VISITOR who reported such a giant break it was readily visible from far away?
Then they took a WEEK and another complaint by another VISITOR to actually look at it and decide that maybe such an egregious break might be a problem? WTF??? |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 4:45:17 PM EDT
[#18]
JB Weld that beeotch.
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Posted: 7/3/2023 4:49:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BREAKING!!! |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 5:51:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: apologies if already asked: on a scale of "instantaneously that day" to "over several weeks", how quickly did this fracture develop do you think? Not an engineer, but have a passing acquaintance things breaking. ty. Sounds like it was reported the week prior and they did nothing... If true, they just went full Bud Light. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 6:31:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: apologies if already asked: on a scale of "instantaneously that day" to "over several weeks", how quickly did this fracture develop do you think? Not an engineer, but have a passing acquaintance things breaking. ty. It starts off slow, then the rate increases as less and less structure participates in resisting the load. You can see how the last remaining bit of material on the vertical column just tore off by the buckled edges. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 6:59:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life my Hindu friend 
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Posted: 7/3/2023 6:59:44 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm going to go with 20-20 hindsight since it's been running since 2015:
Needs some flex up there, everything is very rigid and so load concentrated on that single pipe section, which simply flexed then metal fatigued to failure. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 7:13:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it possible to do some sort of ultrasound verification of welds because I suspect that every single weld needs to be verified safe. Yep, non destructive testing is a thing. A guy in my reserve unit did it, but only so many hot nuke plant tests a year due to radiation exposure limits. He got paid quite well at the time. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 8:00:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, non destructive testing is a thing. A guy in my reserve unit did it, but only so many hot nuke plant tests a year due to radiation exposure limits. He got paid quite well at the time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is it possible to do some sort of ultrasound verification of welds because I suspect that every single weld needs to be verified safe. Yep, non destructive testing is a thing. A guy in my reserve unit did it, but only so many hot nuke plant tests a year due to radiation exposure limits. He got paid quite well at the time. Yep, there are a lot of inspection/nde methods. At this point, they'll probably need to revisit the design unless the initial flaw is obvious and there's no reason to question the design details. That will get very expensive very fast. Forensic engineering isn't cheap, nor are most NDE methods. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 9:05:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder who the designer and contractor are since they should be very happy that right now it's warranty work not a wrongful death claim. Probably a mixture of limitations of design for the load factor combined with cheap steel and the next question would be the weld quality and inspections. Fabbed by Clermont Steel Fabricators. Erected by Mosley Erecting. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 9:08:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Coaster manufacturers frequently sell the same design around the world, and the amusement parks just dress it up to suit their needs. Makes you wonder how many others just like it are installed around the world. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 9:39:26 PM EDT
[#28]
 Safety Update On Carowinds Fury 325! |
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Posted: 7/4/2023 9:20:11 AM EDT
[#29]
My prediction: as others have mentioned, the crack probably started at the weld joint - without knowing the alloy of steel (necessitating post-heating and the like) and the order that it was assembled, it's hard to make a judgement call on the weld quality, but the design of the joint lends itself to producing a stress concentration along the seam. I imagine the fix will involve improving the weld seam and adding some gussets to relief the stress at that point (as some have also mentioned).
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Posted: 7/4/2023 10:26:03 AM EDT
[#30]
There is absolutely no rust staining or discoloration at the break or below it, it really looks like a very sudden fracture that happened very quickly and not over days or weeks, especially if there has been rain or heavy dew recently. As others have said, it's at a high stress point where welding was involved and it may have caused the metal to become brittle and when it did fracture, it was very suddenly.
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Posted: 7/4/2023 10:31:05 AM EDT
[#31]
They'll probably raise admission by $50 to cover the repairs
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Posted: 7/4/2023 1:15:09 PM EDT
[#32]
It's from all the fat people. Imagine the energy on that turn at 95 mph loaded with ultra fat people. Would crack that steel like glass. They need to make that pole out of solid material.
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Posted: 7/4/2023 1:18:14 PM EDT
[#33]
fixed
 
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Posted: 7/4/2023 1:41:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My prediction: as others have mentioned, the crack probably started at the weld joint - without knowing the alloy of steel (necessitating post-heating and the like) and the order that it was assembled, it's hard to make a judgement call on the weld quality, but the design of the joint lends itself to producing a stress concentration along the seam. I imagine the fix will involve improving the weld seam and adding some gussets to relief the stress at that point (as some have also mentioned). This , it doesn't look like the diagonal is a complete cope just saddled on to the vertical , it looks like the vertical column was notched horizontally at the top of the (cope ) diagonal intersection and the weld appears to have failed there first judging by the torn steel on the other side . Used to watch the welder on the gas line crew I worked on build a 12" fabricated tee for his certification test , tee had coupon straps cut out on the weld and hydraulically pulled apart , had to fail on the parent steel not the weld . |
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Posted: 7/4/2023 9:51:32 PM EDT
[#35]
 Fury 325 Crack Repair Update: What This Means For Reopening |
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Posted: 7/4/2023 10:57:34 PM EDT
[#36]
 MAJOR FURY 325 Update! Work Has Begun On Cracked Support & Trim Brakes? (7.4.2023) |
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Posted: 7/4/2023 10:58:12 PM EDT
[#37]
cheap Chinese steel
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Posted: 7/5/2023 12:37:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Fury 325
Feel the Sting Feel The Sting on the tallest, fastest, longest giga coaster in North America - Fury 325! Riders begin their adventure on one of three 32-passenger, open-air trains to the peak height of 325 feet - following a dramatic 81-degree drop. Then, like an angry hornet chasing its target, riders race into a massive 190-foot tall barrel turn and a high-speed S-curve reaching speeds of up to 95 mph. Just above the front entrance of Carowinds, riders experience an astonishing 91-degree overbanked horseshoe turn, and then take the "HIVE DIVE" underneath a pedestrian bridge, swarming at full force into the back half of the ride, through a high speed banked curve, camelback hill and an intense double maneuver. Fury 325 is North America's longest steel coaster, and is over 1.25 miles long. The average ride time is 3.25 minutes, and the ride crosses both North and South Carolina state lines. Fury 325 does not let up during its full throttle swarm! https://www.carowinds.com/rides-experiences/fury-325 |
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Posted: 7/5/2023 12:45:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryLooks good to me. They just need to close the crack to prevent water entry then use the proper color Rustoleum paint on those gussets. Open it back up by the weekend. |
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Posted: 7/5/2023 4:12:01 PM EDT
[#40]
 Carowinds Fury 325 Opening Soon? |
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Posted: 7/5/2023 9:36:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Live stream going on now...
 Roller Coaster & Fury Talk With Mentored Engineer! |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:10:11 PM EDT
[#42]
 Someone posted this on Facebook. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:13:55 PM EDT
[#43]
 HUGE Update From Carowinds About The Fury 325 Roller Coaster! |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 6:16:16 PM EDT
[#44]
Has it been repaired and cleared for use?
Another 'break or crack' found in North Carolina roller coaster at Carowinds park "A North Carolina amusement park has found an additional crack in a roller coaster after the ride shut down last month when a video of a crack in the roller coaster's column went viral. The first crack was discovered in the Fury 325 roller coaster's steel pillar at Carowinds on June 30, prompting the amusement park to shut the ride down. According to the Carowinds website, Fury 325 is the “tallest, fastest, longest giga coaster in North America." The park stated in its initial July 6 press release that the maintenance team and the roller coaster's manufacturer, Bolliger & Mabillard Consulting Engineers Inc., have been inspecting the ride since July 1. Before Fury 325 opens, the ride's final inspections will be conducted by the ride manufacturer, a third-party testing firm, and the North Carolina Department of Labor's Elevator and Amusement Device Bureau. Previously, Carowinds said it will run a series of tests to make sure that the safety and integrity of the roller coaster is secure after the new support beam is installed. "These will include an accelerometer test that uses sensors to measure any variation in the ride experience. After that, we plan to operate the ride for 500 full cycles, performing tests and inspections of the entire ride throughout that period. Once this phase is completed, we will ask B&M and the third-party testing firm to perform a final inspection to ensure the ride exceeds all required specifications," the July 6 release said." |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:02:40 PM EDT
[#45]
OST
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:22:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not a roller coaster designer or engineer but I did want to be one as a kid. I feel like they designed this backwards. There’s nothing really supporting where the force from the track is being pushed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/286798/1E49775E-BFC3-478E-99CA-CCD635C47602_jpe-2870744.JPG Yeah, it looks to me like it would be more suited for stresses coming from the exact opposite direction. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:29:14 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 8/1/2023 9:57:47 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:51:55 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has it been repaired and cleared for use? Another 'break or crack' found in North Carolina roller coaster at Carowinds park "A North Carolina amusement park has found an additional crack in a roller coaster after the ride shut down last month when a video of a crack in the roller coaster's column went viral. The first crack was discovered in the Fury 325 roller coaster's steel pillar at Carowinds on June 30, prompting the amusement park to shut the ride down. According to the Carowinds website, Fury 325 is the “tallest, fastest, longest giga coaster in North America." The park stated in its initial July 6 press release that the maintenance team and the roller coaster's manufacturer, Bolliger & Mabillard Consulting Engineers Inc., have been inspecting the ride since July 1. Before Fury 325 opens, the ride's final inspections will be conducted by the ride manufacturer, a third-party testing firm, and the North Carolina Department of Labor's Elevator and Amusement Device Bureau. Previously, Carowinds said it will run a series of tests to make sure that the safety and integrity of the roller coaster is secure after the new support beam is installed. "These will include an accelerometer test that uses sensors to measure any variation in the ride experience. After that, we plan to operate the ride for 500 full cycles, performing tests and inspections of the entire ride throughout that period. Once this phase is completed, we will ask B&M and the third-party testing firm to perform a final inspection to ensure the ride exceeds all required specifications," the July 6 release said." My son is following the news on Fury extremely closely. It's his favorite roller coaster, and doesn't want to go to Carowinds unless it's back up and operational. I have a sneaky suspicion though, once Top Thrill 2 opens next year at Cedar Point, Fury will lose it's luster. |
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