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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:36:40 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 8/24/2016 5:17:09 AM EDT
[#2]
Hang on, this is Russia. Why is it not called the T937 and why do they not proclaim it to be far superior to western tanks?
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Posted: 8/24/2016 5:45:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are they still storing their ammo around the turret ring? |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 5:49:01 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hang on, this is Russia. Why is it not called the T937 and why do they not proclaim it to be far superior to western tanks? 
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Posted: 8/24/2016 8:46:04 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does it come with a manual about how to have a professional infantry support armor for the syrians? It would have to be written in Farsi. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 9:02:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would have to be written in Farsi. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does it come with a manual about how to have a professional infantry support armor for the syrians? It would have to be written in Farsi. Or Russian? 
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Posted: 8/24/2016 9:28:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Wouldn't that tank benefit from a shorter barrel with it being designed for urban conflict?
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Posted: 8/24/2016 9:31:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:28:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wouldn't that tank benefit from a shorter barrel with it being designed for urban conflict? Maybe, but short barreled tanks have never really been a thing as it is. Mostly because a short barrel will lower your KE antitank capability, and all these tanks were made to deal with other tanks, not insurgents. M1/Merkava - 5.28m T-72 - 6m Leo 2 (up-gunned) - 6.6m Its not the shortest nor the longest, but the T-72 is very small tank, so its barrel looks unusually long. Also a shorter barrel means a new ballistic table for all your ammo, new tooling to make it, less parts commonality, and all you gain for this is a couple feet. If you're upgrading T-72's in the first place, a new barrel is not in the budget. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:51:26 AM EDT
[#10]
A lot of people laughing, but we haven't seen the Abrams in a place like Syria where that many rockets and anti-tank abilities have been taking out the slow-in-city tanks.
Do we really feel that the Abrams would take all of those hits just as well? |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:53:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot of people laughing, but we haven't seen the Abrams in a place like Syria where that many rockets and anti-tank abilities have been taking out the slow-in-city tanks. Do we really feel that the Abrams would take all of those hits just as well? It would take them a lot better than Russian shit but they would still be knocked out because none of the armor gets supported by infantry because they're all retarded. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:11:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After a quarter of a century they never figured out that having the ammo secured in the back, and in special area in case it went boom was the right call? Ouch! Autoloader doesn't get tired or weak due to fatal gamma ray exposure. Also, Russians designed most of their armor for low profile and swimming capability. They knew we'd blow bridges as we fell back. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:24:57 AM EDT
[#13]
The supply of Soylent Green is exhausted.
Clear the area. The scoops are on the way. The scoops are on the way. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:24:58 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Autoloader doesn't get tired or weak due to fatal gamma ray exposure. Also, Russians designed most of their armor for low profile and swimming capability. They knew we'd blow bridges as we fell back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
After a quarter of a century they never figured out that having the ammo secured in the back, and in special area in case it went boom was the right call? Ouch! Autoloader doesn't get tired or weak due to fatal gamma ray exposure. Also, Russians designed most of their armor for low profile and swimming capability. They knew we'd blow bridges as we fell back. He also doesn't help pull security during halts, or assist with maintenance and other crew tasks. He will gladly load your random unattended body parts into the breech, though. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:36:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wouldn't that tank benefit from a shorter barrel with it being designed for urban conflict? 
152mm gun With todays materials and tech. They could do some major improvements. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:36:52 AM EDT
[#16]
We already fielded the ultimate tank for urban operations.
The M728 CEV with "Demolition" Gun 
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:38:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would take them a lot better than Russian shit but they would still be knocked out because none of the armor gets supported by infantry because they're all retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A lot of people laughing, but we haven't seen the Abrams in a place like Syria where that many rockets and anti-tank abilities have been taking out the slow-in-city tanks. Do we really feel that the Abrams would take all of those hits just as well? It would take them a lot better than Russian shit but they would still be knocked out because none of the armor gets supported by infantry because they're all retarded. looking at videos from Syria of ATGM attacks, it seems like most are fired from at least a km, or more, away. what is infantry around a tank going to accomplish when missiles are being fired from that far out? |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:43:06 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot of people laughing, but we haven't seen the Abrams in a place like Syria where that many rockets and anti-tank abilities have been taking out the slow-in-city tanks. Do we really feel that the Abrams would take all of those hits just as well? Yes, it would. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:44:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
looking at videos from Syria of ATGM attacks, it seems like most are fired from at least a km, or more, away. what is infantry around a tank going to accomplish when missiles are being fired from that far out? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A lot of people laughing, but we haven't seen the Abrams in a place like Syria where that many rockets and anti-tank abilities have been taking out the slow-in-city tanks. Do we really feel that the Abrams would take all of those hits just as well? It would take them a lot better than Russian shit but they would still be knocked out because none of the armor gets supported by infantry because they're all retarded. looking at videos from Syria of ATGM attacks, it seems like most are fired from at least a km, or more, away. what is infantry around a tank going to accomplish when missiles are being fired from that far out? That's not urban warfare, but infantry in that case would allow for more dudes to pull security and see the dudes setting up the TOW. What gets many of those tanks killed is piss poor training and discipline all around. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:45:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We already fielded the ultimate tank for urban operations. The M728 CEV with "Demolition" Gun http://www.replicasbytyson.com/images/T-FJTACM728R_U.S.ARMY_M-728_CEV.jpg I was at a range and watched some NG engineer unit fire that thing, you can see the round travel downrange. It's huge and makes a VERY big boom. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:46:45 AM EDT
[#21]
If it doesn't have active protection its a fucking death trap.
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:48:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
looking at videos from Syria of ATGM attacks, it seems like most are fired from at least a km, or more, away. what is infantry around a tank going to accomplish when missiles are being fired from that far out? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A lot of people laughing, but we haven't seen the Abrams in a place like Syria where that many rockets and anti-tank abilities have been taking out the slow-in-city tanks. Do we really feel that the Abrams would take all of those hits just as well? It would take them a lot better than Russian shit but they would still be knocked out because none of the armor gets supported by infantry because they're all retarded. looking at videos from Syria of ATGM attacks, it seems like most are fired from at least a km, or more, away. what is infantry around a tank going to accomplish when missiles are being fired from that far out? Snipers/DMR scanning the hills and any other likely launch points? Infantry can do that far easier than a tank. It would also help if the tanks don't park in exposed areas for extended periods. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:50:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was at a range and watched some NG engineer unit fire that thing, you can see the round travel downrange. It's huge and makes a VERY big boom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We already fielded the ultimate tank for urban operations. The M728 CEV with "Demolition" Gun http://www.replicasbytyson.com/images/T-FJTACM728R_U.S.ARMY_M-728_CEV.jpg I was at a range and watched some NG engineer unit fire that thing, you can see the round travel downrange. It's huge and makes a VERY big boom. Yeah i remember watching engineers do that same thing in the 80's . 135mm gun firing "plastic" rounds If I recall correctly , not really made for armor but perfect if you are clearing streets and buildings. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:54:11 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To use those vision blocks the TC still is going to expose a lot of his head. You'd think they'd put them a little lower to, I dunno, reduce cranial evacuation. I was thinking the same thing, plus it leaves the dude on the belt fed pretty open in the back. I would venture a ell placed rpg/at4 like atm would smoke all that are inside. also the side protection for the road wheels is pretty none existent and I can assume a mobility kill would be likely with a broadside shot. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:54:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Autoloader doesn't get tired or weak due to fatal gamma ray exposure. Also, Russians designed most of their armor for low profile and swimming capability. They knew we'd blow bridges as we fell back. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: After a quarter of a century they never figured out that having the ammo secured in the back, and in special area in case it went boom was the right call? Ouch! Autoloader doesn't get tired or weak due to fatal gamma ray exposure. Also, Russians designed most of their armor for low profile and swimming capability. They knew we'd blow bridges as we fell back. LOL at Russian tanks being good at fording-their engines stall easily and can't be restarted while they're underwater. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:58:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah i remember watching engineers do that same thing in the 80's . 135mm gun firing "plastic" rounds If I recall correctly , not really made for armor but perfect if you are clearing streets and buildings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We already fielded the ultimate tank for urban operations. The M728 CEV with "Demolition" Gun http://www.replicasbytyson.com/images/T-FJTACM728R_U.S.ARMY_M-728_CEV.jpg I was at a range and watched some NG engineer unit fire that thing, you can see the round travel downrange. It's huge and makes a VERY big boom. Yeah i remember watching engineers do that same thing in the 80's . 135mm gun firing "plastic" rounds If I recall correctly , not really made for armor but perfect if you are clearing streets and buildings. Try 165mm |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:04:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Try 165mm Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We already fielded the ultimate tank for urban operations. The M728 CEV with "Demolition" Gun http://www.replicasbytyson.com/images/T-FJTACM728R_U.S.ARMY_M-728_CEV.jpg I was at a range and watched some NG engineer unit fire that thing, you can see the round travel downrange. It's huge and makes a VERY big boom. Yeah i remember watching engineers do that same thing in the 80's . 135mm gun firing "plastic" rounds If I recall correctly , not really made for armor but perfect if you are clearing streets and buildings. Try 165mm Thanks... |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:05:18 PM EDT
[#28]
A little sheet metal and paint goes a long way, apparently.
The best thing about the gulf and iraq wars has been undercutting russian arms sales when it became clear they posed so little danger to US equipment and tactics. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:08:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A little sheet metal and paint goes a long way, apparently. The best thing about the gulf and iraq wars has been undercutting russian arms sales when it became clear they posed so little danger to US equipment and tactics. I never tend to really think the Russians are on par with the US military, but you cant compare a bunch of fig eaters wearing towels on their head who can't find reverse in a Soviet tank to the Russian Military. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:10:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Snipers/DMR scanning the hills and any other likely launch points? Infantry can do that far easier than a tank. It would also help if the tanks don't park in exposed areas for extended periods. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A lot of people laughing, but we haven't seen the Abrams in a place like Syria where that many rockets and anti-tank abilities have been taking out the slow-in-city tanks. Do we really feel that the Abrams would take all of those hits just as well? It would take them a lot better than Russian shit but they would still be knocked out because none of the armor gets supported by infantry because they're all retarded. looking at videos from Syria of ATGM attacks, it seems like most are fired from at least a km, or more, away. what is infantry around a tank going to accomplish when missiles are being fired from that far out? Snipers/DMR scanning the hills and any other likely launch points? Infantry can do that far easier than a tank. It would also help if the tanks don't park in exposed areas for extended periods. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The best defense is to keep them hidden from ranged attacks. Making a 1-4km shot at someone who will only be exposed for a min or two is not a reliable defense, and that's if you see them in the first place. They can easily fire from a position where only someone in the line of fire can see them. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:12:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
looks like a clown car With reactive armor, armored turret, crew serve weapon, flares and 125mm gun. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:15:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They built a trash can with windows around the commander. Must be a place to store an AK inside that trash can. 
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:17:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Ours is better.
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:07:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The best defense is to keep them hidden from ranged attacks. Making a 1-4km shot at someone who will only be exposed for a min or two is not a reliable defense, and that's if you see them in the first place. They can easily fire from a position where only someone in the line of fire can see them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A lot of people laughing, but we haven't seen the Abrams in a place like Syria where that many rockets and anti-tank abilities have been taking out the slow-in-city tanks. Do we really feel that the Abrams would take all of those hits just as well? It would take them a lot better than Russian shit but they would still be knocked out because none of the armor gets supported by infantry because they're all retarded. looking at videos from Syria of ATGM attacks, it seems like most are fired from at least a km, or more, away. what is infantry around a tank going to accomplish when missiles are being fired from that far out? Snipers/DMR scanning the hills and any other likely launch points? Infantry can do that far easier than a tank. It would also help if the tanks don't park in exposed areas for extended periods. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The best defense is to keep them hidden from ranged attacks. Making a 1-4km shot at someone who will only be exposed for a min or two is not a reliable defense, and that's if you see them in the first place. They can easily fire from a position where only someone in the line of fire can see them. US tankers typically don't set one tank out by itself. Having a platoon operating together makes it far easier to keep an eye on potential launch sites. Also, watching the videos, few, if any, of those Syrian crews are scanning, and quite often it's obvious they have no clue what's on their flanks. I've yet to see an example of the tank even knowing a missile is coming before impact. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:08:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never tend to really think the Russians are on par with the US military, but you cant compare a bunch of fig eaters wearing towels on their head who can't find reverse in a Soviet tank to the Russian Military. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A little sheet metal and paint goes a long way, apparently. The best thing about the gulf and iraq wars has been undercutting russian arms sales when it became clear they posed so little danger to US equipment and tactics. I never tend to really think the Russians are on par with the US military, but you cant compare a bunch of fig eaters wearing towels on their head who can't find reverse in a Soviet tank to the Russian Military. The man in the black pajamas, dude. That's a worthy adversary. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:17:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With reactive armor, armored turret, crew serve weapon, flares and 125mm gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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looks like a clown car With reactive armor, armored turret, crew serve weapon, flares and 125mm gun. Its still a T-72 under all that bling. It's turrets will be popping off on Liveleak soon enough. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:25:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
US tankers typically don't set one tank out by itself. Having a platoon operating together makes it far easier to keep an eye on potential launch sites. Also, watching the videos, few, if any, of those Syrian crews are scanning, and quite often it's obvious they have no clue what's on their flanks. I've yet to see an example of the tank even knowing a missile is coming before impact. I don't know a damn thing about armor doctrine, and whenever I see one of the Youtube tank-blowing-up videos (Usually a T-62 or T-72, BTW), the first thing I almost always say is, "What the fuck is that idiot tank commander doing out there all by himself just cruising around at about 5 MPH? 
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:40:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know I would suspect they wouldn't have to up armor the tanks so much, if they would inform their customers that driving a group of tanks and APCs into a town square surrounded by high roof tops - then just idling them there, with no infantry support whatsoever - may not be a winning strategy. The Russians are in this to make money, not help Arabs fight better. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:54:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Russians are in this to make money, not help Arabs fight better. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You know I would suspect they wouldn't have to up armor the tanks so much, if they would inform their customers that driving a group of tanks and APCs into a town square surrounded by high roof tops - then just idling them there, with no infantry support whatsoever - may not be a winning strategy. The Russians are in this to make money, not help Arabs fight better. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:58:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back in the '50s and '60s they probably sent advisors with extensive experience in WWII armor operations and had their recommendations ignored. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You know I would suspect they wouldn't have to up armor the tanks so much, if they would inform their customers that driving a group of tanks and APCs into a town square surrounded by high roof tops - then just idling them there, with no infantry support whatsoever - may not be a winning strategy. The Russians are in this to make money, not help Arabs fight better. Their recommendation would of been "Get a shitload of tanks" |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:59:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its still a T-72 under all that bling. It's turrets will be popping off on Liveleak soon enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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looks like a clown car With reactive armor, armored turret, crew serve weapon, flares and 125mm gun. Its still a T-72 under all that bling. It's turrets will be popping off on Liveleak soon enough. 
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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:01:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Snipers/DMR scanning the hills and any other likely launch points? Infantry can do that far easier than a tank. It would also help if the tanks don't park in exposed areas for extended periods. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A lot of people laughing, but we haven't seen the Abrams in a place like Syria where that many rockets and anti-tank abilities have been taking out the slow-in-city tanks. Do we really feel that the Abrams would take all of those hits just as well? It would take them a lot better than Russian shit but they would still be knocked out because none of the armor gets supported by infantry because they're all retarded. looking at videos from Syria of ATGM attacks, it seems like most are fired from at least a km, or more, away. what is infantry around a tank going to accomplish when missiles are being fired from that far out? Snipers/DMR scanning the hills and any other likely launch points? Infantry can do that far easier than a tank. It would also help if the tanks don't park in exposed areas for extended periods. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I dunno, the Abrams gunner's primary sight on 10x and using the thermals is pretty handy for that sort of thing, and a good gunner can put a round right where he wants it at ranges the infantry cannot effectively reach, and the HEAT round will take care of business even if the bad guy is dug in. Tanks are pretty useful if used properly. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:01:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The man in the black pajamas, dude. That's a worthy adversary. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A little sheet metal and paint goes a long way, apparently. The best thing about the gulf and iraq wars has been undercutting russian arms sales when it became clear they posed so little danger to US equipment and tactics. I never tend to really think the Russians are on par with the US military, but you cant compare a bunch of fig eaters wearing towels on their head who can't find reverse in a Soviet tank to the Russian Military. The man in the black pajamas, dude. That's a worthy adversary. Walter Sobchak abides ... |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:11:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dunno, the Abrams gunner's primary sight on 10x and using the thermals is pretty handy for that sort of thing, and a good gunner can put a round right where he wants it at ranges the infantry cannot effectively reach, and the HEAT round will take care of business even if the bad guy is dug in. Tanks are pretty useful if used properly. But if there's a nice spot to set up an ATGM within range of your armor, a good infantryman is probably already sitting in it, therefore you don't need to put a round through it (provided said infantryman is on your team).
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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:11:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their recommendation would of been "Get a shitload of tanks" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You know I would suspect they wouldn't have to up armor the tanks so much, if they would inform their customers that driving a group of tanks and APCs into a town square surrounded by high roof tops - then just idling them there, with no infantry support whatsoever - may not be a winning strategy. The Russians are in this to make money, not help Arabs fight better. Their recommendation would of been "Get a shitload of tanks" Between losing practically all of their very large force of pre-war tanks and more than 80% of their T34 production the Russians must have had about 90% of their armored vehicles destroyed during WWII, frequently taking 10 or even 20 to 1 loses against the Germans. What kind of good advice were the veterans of that clusterfuck handing out, across a language barrier, to people whose maintenance and training is even worse than the Russians? |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:13:16 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:14:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Between losing practically all of their very large force of pre-war tanks and more than 80% of their T34 production the Russians must have had about 90% of their armored vehicles destroyed during WWII, frequently taking 10 or even 20 to 1 loses against the Germans. What kind of good advice were the veterans of that clusterfuck handing out, across a language barrier, to people whose maintenance and training is even worse than the Russians? It probably wasn't too much of a cultural stretch. Soviet combat doctrine is basically not too far removed from "insha'Allah"... just with shitloads of money added.... 
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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:46:20 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:50:20 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 8/24/2016 2:51:22 PM EDT
[#50]
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