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Posted: 11/16/2018 12:58:33 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not the most modern, but I always thought the J-35 was the coolest looking Saab jet. https://i.redd.it/owevt3yefyhz.jpg -K |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 12:58:56 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Zimbabwe has some nasty looking SAMs courtesy of their Chinese overlords. More importantly, they're manned by PRC troops, which means there's an actual chance they might be moderately combat effective. I was in S. Africa in March. The descent is picking up speed at a frightening pace. They are fast heading to the "African 3rd world" you referred to earlier. I suspect another 5 to 10 years if that much until they hit rock bottom. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:00:24 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
-Roughly on par with early legacy Hornet and Vipers |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:01:42 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryDamn I just realized how small it is compared to a Viper
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:09:16 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Gripen is basically the European equivalent of the F-20 Tigershark concept. It is designed to be small, cheap and inexpensive to operate, while still possessing some decent capabilities. It would make an excellent complimentary fighter to the Typhoon or Rafale as the low end of the high-low mix. That said, I wouldn't want is to be my nation's primary fighter aircraft. It is a bit limited when compared to the previously mentioned designs, as well as American designs like the F-15 and F-18 Super Hornet. The Gripen is a tiny little thing and you just can't pack a radar in that nose that is large enough to compete with those found on larger air superiority fighters. The small size also limits the amount of fuel and weapons it can carry, though it is certainly respectable in those regards for such a tiny aircraft. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:13:16 AM EST
[#6]
Saab is already making the Gripen E/F with lots of nice upgrades
https://saab.com/air/gripen-fighter-system/gripen/gripen-ef/ AESA radar, IRST, 40% more fuel capacity, more powerful engine, 2 more weapon stations, upgraded passive EW sensors, and a fancy new cockpit 
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Posted: 11/16/2018 8:49:25 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saab is already making the Gripen E/F with lots of nice upgrades https://saab.com/air/gripen-fighter-system/gripen/gripen-ef/ AESA radar, IRST, 40% more fuel capacity, more powerful engine, 2 more weapon stations, upgraded passive EW sensors, and a fancy new cockpit https://i.imgur.com/alJI09r.png |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 9:03:49 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saab is already making the Gripen E/F with lots of nice upgrades AESA radar, IRST, 40% more fuel capacity, more powerful engine, 2 more weapon stations, upgraded passive EW sensors, and a fancy new cockpit How bizarre to post a reversed photo. Not blaming the poster; it just looks so odd. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 9:07:28 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Evidently, one of the "upgrades" is to put the throttle on the right, and spell all the words backwards. How bizarre to post a reversed photo. Not blaming the poster; it just looks so odd. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 9:18:01 AM EST
[#10]
All I know about the Grippen in the Swedish Air Force is Majors and Captains guard them. One night when I was stationed at Nellis I went out to check the flight line patrols and I see a weird looking plane in a hangar and two guys sitting with it. I go up, introduce myself and no shit, these guys were actually guarding a Grippen. A Major and a Captain. I was incredulous at the thought of it and no longer cared about the plane, I wanted to know what kind of fuckery went on in the Swedish Air Force. When asked why officers and not enlisted were sitting on the plane, the Major explained it to me, "There is a job to be done and we are expected to do it as well." Wow, I wouldn't expect that from any of our officers unless it would make them look better.
By the way the Grippen was pretty cool and I learned alot about leadership from that Major. Officers should be held to a higher standard but not treated as if they were royalty. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 9:25:46 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Channel 37 OCTANE Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/182537/Gripen_jpg-740065.JPG What's most impressive is that they came with Sirius/XM radio way back then. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 9:41:57 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So essentially a modern, faster F-5 Tiger II? F-20 with the wings on backwards |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 9:51:47 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No love for the Saab 29 "Flying Barrel?" |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 10:05:07 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Viggen is pretty cool looking too. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/54089/ja37di_37428_1024_jpg-740107.JPG |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 10:16:19 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always gave props to the Viggen for having an afterbuning JT8D. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Viggen is pretty cool looking too. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/54089/ja37di_37428_1024_jpg-740107.JPG Of course, both the Viggen and Tornado (and a whole host of V/STOL programs, with only the Harrier coming to fruition as an operational aircraft) came about in an era where it was feared that the Soviets would obliterate NATO airfields.  4K Saab 37 Viggen Reverse Thrust Demo - Nato Days 2015 - Saturday |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 10:26:03 AM EST
[#16]
The first discriminator of US and European airplanes is range and endurance. Ours need long legs.
That drives in the dimensions and weight, and the weight drives in cost. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 10:32:01 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The first discriminator of US and European airplanes is range and endurance. Ours need long legs. That drives in the dimensions and weight, and the weight drives in cost. The first Gripens didnt even have aerial refueling since why do you need it? Only defending Sweden Of course the new Gripen E weighs almost as much as a block 52 F-16 but with a smaller motor... so let's see how that goes. Rumors are that it's already more expensive than an F-16 |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 10:37:30 AM EST
[#18]
Quoted:
I remember first hearing about these when I was about 12yrs old, circa 1997 and thinking they were neat looking as hell Guys more educated on the fighter/tactical side of house how do these compare to our Viper and Bug? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Air-to-air_with_a_Czech_Saab_Gripen_with_AFB_%C4%8C%C3%A1slav_in_the_background.jpg Ignition key is on the center console instead of behind the steering wheel. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 10:51:10 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep The first Gripens didnt even have aerial refueling since why do you need it? Only defending Sweden Of course the new Gripen E weighs almost as much as a block 52 F-16 but with a smaller motor... so let's see how that goes. Rumors are that it's already more expensive than an F-16 |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 10:54:41 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
according to wiki #'s an F-16 block 50 weighs 1300lbs more than the Gripen E, empty (18,900 vs 17,637) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yep The first Gripens didnt even have aerial refueling since why do you need it? Only defending Sweden Of course the new Gripen E weighs almost as much as a block 52 F-16 but with a smaller motor... so let's see how that goes. Rumors are that it's already more expensive than an F-16 |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 10:58:01 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
according to wiki #'s an F-16 block 50 weighs 1300lbs more than the Gripen E, empty (18,900 vs 17,637) |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 11:06:27 AM EST
[#22]
this thread needs more pics!
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Posted: 11/16/2018 12:05:06 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All I know about the Grippen in the Swedish Air Force is Majors and Captains guard them. One night when I was stationed at Nellis I went out to check the flight line patrols and I see a weird looking plane in a hangar and two guys sitting with it. I go up, introduce myself and no shit, these guys were actually guarding a Grippen. A Major and a Captain. I was incredulous at the thought of it and no longer cared about the plane, I wanted to know what kind of fuckery went on in the Swedish Air Force. When asked why officers and not enlisted were sitting on the plane, the Major explained it to me, "There is a job to be done and we are expected to do it as well." Wow, I wouldn't expect that from any of our officers unless it would make them look better. By the way the Grippen was pretty cool and I learned alot about leadership from that Major. Officers should be held to a higher standard but not treated as if they were royalty. There was a free trip to Vegas and a couple of officers elbowed the enlisted off the guard roster so they could go on the trip. I bet if you checked the flight line in Sweden on a Saturday night you wouldn’t find too many majors. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:02:45 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Gripen is basically the European equivalent of the F-20 Tigershark concept. It is designed to be small, cheap and inexpensive to operate, while still possessing some decent capabilities. It would make an excellent complimentary fighter to the Typhoon or Rafale as the low end of the high-low mix. That said, I wouldn't want is to be my nation's primary fighter aircraft. It is a bit limited when compared to the previously mentioned designs, as well as American designs like the F-15 and F-18 Super Hornet. The Gripen is a tiny little thing and you just can't pack a radar in that nose that is large enough to compete with those found on larger air superiority fighters. The small size also limits the amount of fuel and weapons it can carry, though it is certainly respectable in those regards for such a tiny aircraft. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:04:16 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The radar in Gripen E/F is about 20% larger than the one in the Rafale, though smaller than that of the Superbug or Eurotrash Typhoon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Gripen is basically the European equivalent of the F-20 Tigershark concept. It is designed to be small, cheap and inexpensive to operate, while still possessing some decent capabilities. It would make an excellent complimentary fighter to the Typhoon or Rafale as the low end of the high-low mix. That said, I wouldn't want is to be my nation's primary fighter aircraft. It is a bit limited when compared to the previously mentioned designs, as well as American designs like the F-15 and F-18 Super Hornet. The Gripen is a tiny little thing and you just can't pack a radar in that nose that is large enough to compete with those found on larger air superiority fighters. The small size also limits the amount of fuel and weapons it can carry, though it is certainly respectable in those regards for such a tiny aircraft. 
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:05:32 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saab is already making the Gripen E/F with lots of nice upgrades https://saab.com/air/gripen-fighter-system/gripen/gripen-ef/ AESA radar, IRST, 40% more fuel capacity, more powerful engine, 2 more weapon stations, upgraded passive EW sensors, and a fancy new cockpit https://i.imgur.com/alJI09r.png 
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:10:11 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rumors are that it's already more expensive than an F-16 For the Swedish AF the fly-away cost for Gripen E is roughly 30% less than Gripen C/D, but we already have the support and logistics network in place. The Brazilian contract was more expensive since they have to build up the infrastructure from scratch, and they wanted licensed production and tech transfer as well. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:11:39 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet if you checked the flight line in Sweden on a Saturday night you wouldn’t find too many majors. 
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:15:46 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Eurotrash Typhoon" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Gripen is basically the European equivalent of the F-20 Tigershark concept. It is designed to be small, cheap and inexpensive to operate, while still possessing some decent capabilities. It would make an excellent complimentary fighter to the Typhoon or Rafale as the low end of the high-low mix. That said, I wouldn't want is to be my nation's primary fighter aircraft. It is a bit limited when compared to the previously mentioned designs, as well as American designs like the F-15 and F-18 Super Hornet. The Gripen is a tiny little thing and you just can't pack a radar in that nose that is large enough to compete with those found on larger air superiority fighters. The small size also limits the amount of fuel and weapons it can carry, though it is certainly respectable in those regards for such a tiny aircraft. They still haven't integrated decent A2G muntions. None of the partner nations want to foot the bill for that since the Limeys have the F35, and the Krauts are flying the wings off the Tornado. The Typhoon is dying a slow and lingering death. For the price of a Typhoon you can buy an F15, which acually delivers all the capabilities the Typhoon promised. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:17:16 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It fits. They still haven't integrated decent A2G muntions. None of the partner nations want to foot the bill for that since the Limeys have the F35, and the Krauts are flying the wings off the Tornado. The Typhoon is dying a slow and lingering death. For the price of a Typhoon you can buy an F15, which acually delivers all the capabilities the Typhoon promised. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Gripen is basically the European equivalent of the F-20 Tigershark concept. It is designed to be small, cheap and inexpensive to operate, while still possessing some decent capabilities. It would make an excellent complimentary fighter to the Typhoon or Rafale as the low end of the high-low mix. That said, I wouldn't want is to be my nation's primary fighter aircraft. It is a bit limited when compared to the previously mentioned designs, as well as American designs like the F-15 and F-18 Super Hornet. The Gripen is a tiny little thing and you just can't pack a radar in that nose that is large enough to compete with those found on larger air superiority fighters. The small size also limits the amount of fuel and weapons it can carry, though it is certainly respectable in those regards for such a tiny aircraft. They still haven't integrated decent A2G muntions. None of the partner nations want to foot the bill for that since the Limeys have the F35, and the Krauts are flying the wings off the Tornado. The Typhoon is dying a slow and lingering death. For the price of a Typhoon you can buy an F15, which acually delivers all the capabilities the Typhoon promised.
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Posted: 11/16/2018 1:23:09 PM EST
[#31]
Never expect much from crew chiefs, just change the tires and empty the shitters knuckle dragger
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Posted: 11/16/2018 3:03:21 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never expect much from crew chiefs, just change the tires and empty the shitters knuckle dragger 
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Posted: 11/16/2018 3:05:14 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who the fuck are you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Never expect much from crew chiefs, just change the tires and empty the shitters knuckle dragger |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 3:14:16 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That depends on how you calculate cost. For the Swedish AF the fly-away cost for Gripen E is roughly 30% less than Gripen C/D, but we already have the support and logistics network in place. The Brazilian contract was more expensive since they have to build up the infrastructure from scratch, and they wanted licensed production and tech transfer as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Rumors are that it's already more expensive than an F-16 For the Swedish AF the fly-away cost for Gripen E is roughly 30% less than Gripen C/D, but we already have the support and logistics network in place. The Brazilian contract was more expensive since they have to build up the infrastructure from scratch, and they wanted licensed production and tech transfer as well. You can get a fairly low-time A-model, put all the upgrades on them, make it effectively a late-model C... and it's really not that expensive. High-time A's have trouble moving (like the Israeli ones) but low-hour birds... not an issue. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 3:47:26 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The other thing that really sells F-16's is that there are a bunch of them lying around, fairly low-time, used. You can get a fairly low-time A-model, put all the upgrades on them, make it effectively a late-model C... and it's really not that expensive. High-time A's have trouble moving (like the Israeli ones) but low-hour birds... not an issue. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 3:50:42 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Gripen is basically the European equivalent of the F-20 Tigershark concept. It is designed to be small, cheap and inexpensive to operate, while still possessing some decent capabilities. It would make an excellent complimentary fighter to the Typhoon or Rafale as the low end of the high-low mix. That said, I wouldn't want is to be my nation's primary fighter aircraft. It is a bit limited when compared to the previously mentioned designs, as well as American designs like the F-15 and F-18 Super Hornet. The Gripen is a tiny little thing and you just can't pack a radar in that nose that is large enough to compete with those found on larger air superiority fighters. The small size also limits the amount of fuel and weapons it can carry, though it is certainly respectable in those regards for such a tiny aircraft. If the F-20 was a delta wing/canard design, with more modern avionics. Swedish fighter cockpits have a unique approach and have always been very intuitive even dating back to the Draken. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 4:04:01 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You got played. There was a free trip to Vegas and a couple of officers elbowed the enlisted off the guard roster so they could go on the trip. I bet if you checked the flight line in Sweden on a Saturday night you wouldn’t find too many majors. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 4:08:22 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That depends on how you calculate cost. For the Swedish AF the fly-away cost for Gripen E is roughly 30% less than Gripen C/D, but we already have the support and logistics network in place. The Brazilian contract was more expensive since they have to build up the infrastructure from scratch, and they wanted licensed production and tech transfer as well. And no. That's not directed at you. Just saying generally they are the ones with the least amount of experience and knowledge who have read too many shiny brochures What's the cost exactly?? There are several blogs and sites that cant seem to agree |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 4:18:47 PM EST
[#39]
I remember watching a TV show or video on it. IIRC it was designed to be a point defense aircraft for the small european country. Easy to maintain and operate from rough fields in all weather. It didn't need the size or crazy power because it's likely usage was to get up in the air, fly 1-200 miles to target, deliver munitions, fly back. Don't need an F15 for that.
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Posted: 11/16/2018 4:44:49 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was just looking at a salvage-title Israeli F-16A on Craigslist this week. Pulls to the right, but price seems good. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 4:50:33 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the cost exactly?? There are several blogs and sites that cant seem to agree |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 4:50:55 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the cost exactly?? There are several blogs and sites that cant seem to agree |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 5:08:51 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was just looking at a salvage-title Israeli F-16A on Craigslist this week. Pulls to the right, but price seems good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The other thing that really sells F-16's is that there are a bunch of them lying around, fairly low-time, used. You can get a fairly low-time A-model, put all the upgrades on them, make it effectively a late-model C... and it's really not that expensive. High-time A's have trouble moving (like the Israeli ones) but low-hour birds... not an issue. |
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Posted: 11/16/2018 6:30:05 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ran when parked? |
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