[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 101 of 142)
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That is an excellent video on this mess and discusses some of what this experienced firearm expert (Dick Fairburn) has seen from other companies like Glock when there was a question of safety. Glock agreed to meet, look at the weapons and flew in their engineers, 2 from Smyrna and 1 from Austria. Swapped out some guns on the spot. Tested them more in Austria with high speed cameras. And then ended up fixing the issue, swapping 2400 firearms and just charged them for the cost of new nite sights. Which most of those needed anyways. And no I am not a Glock Fanboy and do not currently own any. 
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Tried this with my Pinto320, nothing happened. But i wouldnt buy another sig, until they man up and fix the guns. |
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Quoted: What models are you referencing? I have Cross, M400, 716I & G2, 516G2, and a few MCX VIRTUS models. Cross recall |
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That guy is incredibly repetitive. I think this is a great illustration of the overall tolerance issue, but he doesn't seem to understand the striker block is being operated during the pre-travel. However... Quoted: Holy buttfucking buttfuck. We're getting closer, and this is yet another piece of evidence that my OG theory posted earlier in this thread was correct. So far we've got the following 100% confirmed: 1. The striker safety does not work in many guns through various mechanisms (shit tolerances and/or QC to ensure tolerances are being met, unseated spring, weak spring, broken spring, gunk in the action) 2. The sear can sympathetically disengage the striker safety without a trigger pull via backwards feedback. 3. The manual safety on M17/M18 models does not lock the sear, only the trigger. 4. Some number of guns come with a hook on sear/sear engagement surfaces that leads to dead triggers. 5. Torque on the slide/frame can cause the gun to go off when the trigger is not fully depressed though the entire trigger pull distance. Honestly, any one of these issues should disqualify the P320 from production, but in this case, it has all 5. I can't believe people are defending this gun at this point.  Based on this latest video, how much do you want to bet that the MSP issue was caused by: torque and slide/frame movement + causing the sear/sear engagement hook to hold onto the sear so it never fully reset + further torque and slide/frame movement getting the sear to drop = dead trigger? If that's the case, and I think it likely is, those MSP officers were saved from ADs only by Sig's shitty striker safety that doesn't work some percentage of the time.  Also, the fact that Sig engineers knew shaving the hooks off the sear/engagement surfaces would fix the MSP dead trigger issue tells me they know all of the above. They know how these guns are going off and aren't doing shit about it. Fucking scum company and people. And that's more or less the big picture. We have three known and documented ways the striker block can and does fail, and now we can demonstrate sloppy tolerances allowing the sear to let go when it shouldn't. |
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Quoted: Tried this with my Pinto320, nothing happened. But i wouldnt buy another sig, until they man up and fix the guns. Quoted: Tried this with my Pinto320, nothing happened. But i wouldnt buy another sig, until they man up and fix the guns. Pinto320 Attached File |
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You bought that? Attached File |
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Quoted: How soon until they aren’t allowed for sale on the EE? Quoted: Quoted: Guns stores won’t even take these in trade soon. How soon until they aren’t allowed for sale on the EE? I was at one of the LGS earlier today when the manager got a call from a customer asking about putting his 320 on consignment. Manager responded that per the owner they were not even consigning 320s anymore. I can't imagine thats the only store in the country to say that nowadays. |
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Cheap |
Not a discharge but a broken sig p320 Catastrophic Failure Sig Sauer M17 |
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Quoted: I was at one of the LGS earlier today when the manager got a call from a customer asking about putting his 320 on consignment. Manager responded that per the owner they were not even consigning 320s anymore. I can't imagine thats the only store in the country to say that nowadays. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guns stores won’t even take these in trade soon. How soon until they aren’t allowed for sale on the EE? I was at one of the LGS earlier today when the manager got a call from a customer asking about putting his 320 on consignment. Manager responded that per the owner they were not even consigning 320s anymore. I can't imagine thats the only store in the country to say that nowadays. With all the bs adco had to go through in that lawsuit, I can see many ffls being reasonably cautious about selling any p320s in the very near future, and rightfully so |
| Retailers are kinda stuck. As far as buying used one, it doesn't even need to be a liability decision, it's simple economics: they're not selling, so why buy another? For new inventory, they're not selling and good luck sending them back to a distributor, who is also getting reduced or no orders for them. |
 it was a bad week for sig |
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There are now several P320 users who will not grow old. 
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 SIG's Real P320 Problem is no Longer Uncommanded Discharges |
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A very succinct and fair break down of the p320. Well worth the time. |
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https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1117532269 I TRIED SO HARD AND GOT SO FAR |
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Is it irony the video is 3:20 long? |
Video from Mischief Machine Failed To Load Title |
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So I tried this on my sig P320 DH3. I did not do the striker safety block test from many pages ago. However, if I press down on the sear, it raises the lever that disengages the striker safety block... And if I pull the trigger not past the break, but to the point there is tension and then lift the slide, the sear releases. Edit: Video: https://imgur.com/a/Erx46cI |
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Quoted: So I tried this on my sig P320 DH3. I did not do the striker safety block test from many pages ago. However, if I press down on the sear, it raises the lever that disengages the striker safety block... And if I pull the trigger not past the break, but to the point there is tension and then lift the slide, the sear releases. Shouldn't you be able to send it back for warranty repair/replacement? |
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Quoted: I don't believe in supporting cults but to each their own. Kahr firearms themselves leave much to be desired IME. A family member has one that had to go back twice and is still unreliable. It sits in the safe now. There is nothing they currently make that isnt outclassed. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Briefly thought about replacing my 320's with 365's and then realized I would be happier buying from a company that hasn't behaved like Sig. Pondering kahr now. Read about the moonies first. Why? I don’t think there’s anything about the Moonies that’s a deal breaker for unrelated business. What he should read about is Kahr firearms. There was a time when they were competitive, but that ended a long time ago. Kahr was outperformed by the single stack striker guns, and that was before we got the micros we have now. I don't believe in supporting cults but to each their own. Kahr firearms themselves leave much to be desired IME. A family member has one that had to go back twice and is still unreliable. It sits in the safe now. There is nothing they currently make that isnt outclassed. Desert Eagle - who else makes a 50AE semi-auto, let alone something so classic? Thompson 45 - who else makes anything close to the feel of a Tommygun? Yes there are other 45 subguns, but not like that. Magnum Research BFR - who else makes a 45-70 revolver? I know Bond Arms makes a single shot handgun, which is I think a great thing: carry a 45-70 lever gun, a 45-70 BFR, and a Bond Arms as a BUG! Seriously, Kahr keeps classic and iconic guns on the market. Their CM9 pistols are small and the folks I know who carry them never had an issue (some being guys who also carry and shoot glocks/sigs seemingly weekly). They have STYLE |
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Quoted: So I tried this on my sig P320 DH3. I did not do the striker safety block test from many pages ago. However, if I press down on the sear, it raises the lever that disengages the striker safety block... And if I pull the trigger not past the break, but to the point there is tension and then lift the slide, the sear releases. Edit: Video: https://imgur.com/a/Erx46cI Damn. Sorry, man. Don't carry that gun! |
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I highly enjoy this guy's channel. He is reporting some interesting things A previous comment here reported someone in the industry knew Sig engineers and this thing with the P320 is "watercooler talk". The discussed post on IG makes this plausible. But again, all just hearsay.  Where is Ben Stoeger's IG, and yet another SIG PR fail!!! |
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Quoted: So I tried this on my sig P320 DH3. I did not do the striker safety block test from many pages ago. However, if I press down on the sear, it raises the lever that disengages the striker safety block... And if I pull the trigger not past the break, but to the point there is tension and then lift the slide, the sear releases. Edit: Video: https://imgur.com/a/Erx46cI |
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Quoted: Drop a pen or pencil down into the barrel so it rests on the breech face and redo that test, see if the striker is coming all the way forward and moves the pen. I think it will because pressing the trigger through the take up to the wall raises the striker block safety lever anyway. ETA: Well, unless you think the 2nd sear is catching it. I supposed I'd have to test it to find out. But if the 2nd sear is catching it, shouldn't I be able to pull the trigger to release it from the 2nd sear? |
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Quoted: I think it will because pressing the trigger through the take up to the wall raises the striker block safety lever anyway. ETA: Well, unless you think the 2nd sear is catching it. I supposed I'd have to test it to find out. But if the 2nd sear is catching it, shouldn't I be able to pull the trigger to release it from the 2nd sear? No idea on the trigger condition if it catches the second sear, I don't own a 320. I would assume it would give you like a second trigger break that feels weak, but with how rube-goldberg that thing is who knows. |
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Quoted: I was at one of the LGS earlier today when the manager got a call from a customer asking about putting his 320 on consignment. Manager responded that per the owner they were not even consigning 320s anymore. I can't imagine thats the only store in the country to say that nowadays. Probably a stupid question, but at this point since its reasonable to assume that its defective and not safe, would a gun store (or perhaps even someone on EE) be opening themselves up to liability if they still sell them? |
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Quoted: I highly enjoy this guy's channel. He is reporting some interesting things A previous comment here reported someone in the industry knew Sig engineers and this thing with the P320 is "watercooler talk". The discussed post on IG makes this plausible. But again, all just hearsay.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxyuE6NIfhwStoeger's ig is definitely not loading right now. Evidently it's been gone long enough for somebody to make and upload that video. |
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Quoted: Probably a stupid question, but at this point since its reasonable to assume that its defective and not safe, would a gun store (or perhaps even someone on EE) be opening themselves up to liability if they still sell them? Quoted: Quoted: I was at one of the LGS earlier today when the manager got a call from a customer asking about putting his 320 on consignment. Manager responded that per the owner they were not even consigning 320s anymore. I can't imagine thats the only store in the country to say that nowadays. Probably a stupid question, but at this point since its reasonable to assume that its defective and not safe, would a gun store (or perhaps even someone on EE) be opening themselves up to liability if they still sell them? Usually the sharks go after the big money, ie the major corporation , not the brick and mortar LGS I think its more of a concern about losing a game of hot potato |
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This is probably why SIG released an updated trigger bar (576) that requires MORE trigger motion before it releases the striker safety. I purchased one and put it in my 320 a month ago. |
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Quoted: It has the infinite guarantee, but what would they repair? Quoted: Quoted: Shouldn't you be able to send it back for warranty repair/replacement? It has the infinite guarantee, but what would they repair? Man, idk, apparently there isn't a fix. Hopefully you can get them to do something with it. Good luck |
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Quoted: Desert Eagle - who else makes a 50AE semi-auto, let alone something so classic? Thompson 45 - who else makes anything close to the feel of a Tommygun? Yes there are other 45 subguns, but not like that. Magnum Research BFR - who else makes a 45-70 revolver? I know Bond Arms makes a single shot handgun, which is I think a great thing: carry a 45-70 lever gun, a 45-70 BFR, and a Bond Arms as a BUG! Seriously, Kahr keeps classic and iconic guns on the market. Their CM9 pistols are small and the folks I know who carry them never had an issue (some being guys who also carry and shoot glocks/sigs seemingly weekly). They have STYLE Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Briefly thought about replacing my 320's with 365's and then realized I would be happier buying from a company that hasn't behaved like Sig. Pondering kahr now. Read about the moonies first. Why? I don’t think there’s anything about the Moonies that’s a deal breaker for unrelated business. What he should read about is Kahr firearms. There was a time when they were competitive, but that ended a long time ago. Kahr was outperformed by the single stack striker guns, and that was before we got the micros we have now. I don't believe in supporting cults but to each their own. Kahr firearms themselves leave much to be desired IME. A family member has one that had to go back twice and is still unreliable. It sits in the safe now. There is nothing they currently make that isnt outclassed. Desert Eagle - who else makes a 50AE semi-auto, let alone something so classic? Thompson 45 - who else makes anything close to the feel of a Tommygun? Yes there are other 45 subguns, but not like that. Magnum Research BFR - who else makes a 45-70 revolver? I know Bond Arms makes a single shot handgun, which is I think a great thing: carry a 45-70 lever gun, a 45-70 BFR, and a Bond Arms as a BUG! Seriously, Kahr keeps classic and iconic guns on the market. Their CM9 pistols are small and the folks I know who carry them never had an issue (some being guys who also carry and shoot glocks/sigs seemingly weekly). They have STYLE The Deagle is a meme gun. Yes, I have shot and played with one. No desire to buy one. Get a magnum revolver or a big auto. For the price of a deagle, get both. The Thompson - reports I've read say they suck but that's not my market , can't personally corroborate. BFR - again, a meme gun. Nobody is actually using it, it is a range toy. Those are all subsidiary companies (Magnum Research)IIRC and not Kahr, so I'll reiterate that they make nothing that isn't outclassed by another manufacturer. Yes, same owners, whatever. There is nothing special about Kahr that you can't get somewhere else, but better. ETA and this is not a Kahr thread... |
Stumbled across this and I really don’t know where to begin with this guy: Recreating P320 Failure!..Real World LIVE Testing! (Wyoming Gun project Response Video) |
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Quoted: Stumbled across this and I really don’t know where to begin with this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTmZJVGHIZMPart of me thinks he has these takes to controversial and get clicks…. Then I think he’s too big of a dumb ass |
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Combine his walking theory with the FBI results and it’s starting to look like a leading candidate. |
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Quoted: So I tried this on my sig P320 DH3. I did not do the striker safety block test from many pages ago. However, if I press down on the sear, it raises the lever that disengages the striker safety block... And if I pull the trigger not past the break, but to the point there is tension and then lift the slide, the sear releases. Edit: Video: https://imgur.com/a/Erx46cI Dang |
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This has officially gone mainstream. https://youtu.be/WIfbzmApyxo?si=XJgDwX4sLMgK5vH5 |
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If Charlie is posting about it, it’ll have close to 2 million views by the end of tmrw. |