[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 69 of 142)
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Quoted: I'd have used this lawsuit from last year, but I'm not sure if it was a Glock or an M&P. https://www.expressnews.com/business/article/holster-defect-discharge-lawsuit-safariland-texas-19862535.php It doesn’t matter if it’s a Glock or a M&P. The holster not covering the trigger guard is just a distraction from the discussion about why this is happening frequently with the P320. Seemingly more frequently than all other guns combined. Lets just stop bringing up but, but, Glock, and instead say “but, but, but all other guns”. The picture I posted in reply about cops carrying 320s in lightbearing holsters with uncovered trigger guards isn’t just a picture of a Glock. Its a picture of all guns in that model holster. |
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Quoted: It doesn’t matter if it’s a Glock or a M&P. The holster not covering the trigger guard is just a distraction from the discussion about why this is happening frequently with the P320. Seemingly more frequently than all other guns combined. Lets just stop bringing up but, but, Glock, and instead say “but, but, but all other guns”. My guy, I'm just trying to get you to accept the reality that some of the P320 holster fires are almost certainly due to something pulling the trigger, and help you understand that it's more likely when the holster doesn't fully cover the trigger guard. |
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Quoted: My guy, I'm just trying to get you to accept the reality that some of the P320 holster fires are almost certainly due to something pulling the trigger, and help you understand that it's more likely when the holster doesn't fully cover the trigger guard. I’ve always accepted that as a possible cause. The point is, it seems to be happening more with one specific gun than all other guns combined. Perhaps without any “but, but, foreign objects could have caused it” in some cases. When I started using that holster, I tested whether something getting in there could cause a discharge. I was unable to make that happen, because of the dingus. Though it doesn’t seem likely with the gun I carry, I still believe it is possible. Which is why I don’t hang shit next to my holster. |
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Quoted: My guy, I'm just trying to get you to accept the reality that some of the P320 holster fires are almost certainly due to something pulling the trigger, and help you understand that it's more likely when the holster doesn't fully cover the trigger guard. I'm not aware of anyone ever saying that wasn't a potential part of the issue. |
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Quoted: I'm not aware of anyone ever saying that wasn't a potential part of the issue. Many people are myopic and thinking IF there is an issue, it's just one issue and if it doesn't apply to them or SIG denies the problem, then they're gtg. I'm certainly not speaking about the SIG bros who are married to the 320, but people who who are ignorant of the potential problems. There seem to be at least three different problems with the design: the lack of a dingus (which would have prevented the drop issue in 2017), sear disengagement, and striker block failure. Overall, it's just an overly complicated, poorly engineered, crap design. |
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Quoted: I'm not aware of anyone ever saying that wasn't a potential part of the issue. Quoted: Quoted: My guy, I'm just trying to get you to accept the reality that some of the P320 holster fires are almost certainly due to something pulling the trigger, and help you understand that it's more likely when the holster doesn't fully cover the trigger guard. I'm not aware of anyone ever saying that wasn't a potential part of the issue. You haven't seen, in the last page of this thread someone suggesting that it wasn't important that a holster didn't fully cover the trigger guard, or that other pistols don't fire in the holster? Sure. |
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Quoted: Many people are myopic and thinking IF there is an issue, it's just one issue and if it doesn't apply to them or SIG denies the problem, then they're gtg. I'm certainly not speaking about the SIG bros who are married to the 320, but people who who are ignorant of the potential problems. There seem to be at least three different problems with the design: the lack of a dingus (which would have prevented the drop issue in 2017), sear disengagement, and striker block failure. Overall, it's just an overly complicated, poorly engineered, crap design. Accurate. |
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Quoted: I don't interpret that statement the same way you do; it looks to me like he's referring to the addition of a disconnector. The original, pre 'voluntary upgrade' P320 didn't have a disconnector, the first 6,000 or so M17s sent to the Army got upgraded FCUs but still lacked a disconnector, and then the final version of the drop safety voluntary upgrade included the disconnector, presumably due to the ICE requirement. ICE adopted the P320 in 2017, right before the drop safety debacle. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone have documentation on this? https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/TDI-will-No-Longer-Allow-the-use-of-SIG-P320-Pistols-at-their-classes-/5-2792279/&page=3&anc=113353681#i113351172 @Hard_Rock It's on TDI's landing page. No, Hard Rock's assertion that the ICE contract mandated the safety lock the sear, not just the trigger. If so, that's a straightforward fix for SIG and the entire 320 community, as well as the .mil. Lock the sear, UDs go away. He's the only one who's brought up that assertion. Quoted: Quoted: That doesn't fix the issue. The M17/M18/320 manual safety only locks the trigger. It doesn't lock the sear, and it doesn't lock the striker block safety - which is the part that is INOP on an unknown percentage of SIG P320s, including apparently the one that went off in Japan in a holster, and some of the Marine Corps M17s. No working striker safety, you're walking around w/ a cocked & unlocked 1911 w/ the grip safety pinned & no Series 80 drop safety - how much do you trust a Indian MIM sear? SIG upgraded the 320 FCU design with a sear disconnect. That was part of the requirement for the ICE contract. With that said, I've played with a few of the 320's and own one myself. I like the gun but it's not in my carry rotation just because of its size. But I wouldn't have an issue carrying one if I had to. I don't interpret that statement the same way you do; it looks to me like he's referring to the addition of a disconnector. The original, pre 'voluntary upgrade' P320 didn't have a disconnector, the first 6,000 or so M17s sent to the Army got upgraded FCUs but still lacked a disconnector, and then the final version of the drop safety voluntary upgrade included the disconnector, presumably due to the ICE requirement. ICE adopted the P320 in 2017, right before the drop safety debacle. IOW, the sear is still not locked. |
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Quoted: My guy, I'm just trying to get you to accept the reality that some of the P320 holster fires are almost certainly due to something pulling the trigger, and help you understand that it's more likely when the holster doesn't fully cover the trigger guard. Which is exactly why Glocks and other striker fire guns have that trigger safety. The thing that helps prevent the trigger from being pressed by something not deliberately trying to shoot the gun. It made sense 30 years ago and it still makes sense. It makes no sense why Sig decided not to include one on the 320. |
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Quoted: Which is exactly why Glocks and other striker fire guns have that trigger safety. The thing that helps prevent the trigger from being pressed by something not deliberately trying to shoot the gun. It made sense 30 years ago and it still makes sense. It makes no sense why Sig decided not to include one on the 320. Quoted: Quoted: My guy, I'm just trying to get you to accept the reality that some of the P320 holster fires are almost certainly due to something pulling the trigger, and help you understand that it's more likely when the holster doesn't fully cover the trigger guard. Which is exactly why Glocks and other striker fire guns have that trigger safety. The thing that helps prevent the trigger from being pressed by something not deliberately trying to shoot the gun. It made sense 30 years ago and it still makes sense. It makes no sense why Sig decided not to include one on the 320. The trigger safety is primarily there to make Glocks drop safe. Glock's trigger and trigger bar move in the same direction, so in a muzzle up drop the momentum of the two parts work together to fire the pistol; the safety tab is necessary to prevent movement. Any resistance to foreign objects in the trigger guard is incidental. The trigger bar and trigger move in opposite directions in the P320 so a safety tab shouldn't have been necessary, but Sig obviously fucked it up. I suspect the design of the striker safety lifting lever is a big part of the problem. |
11 minutes of please blow up my comment section so the YouTube algorithm will bump my videos to the top: Seal DJ Shipley Called Out as “SIG Shill!” INFURIATES Fans |
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Quoted: 11 minutes of please blow up my comment section so the YouTube algorithm will bump my videos to the top:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exdieKMgFf4 |
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Quoted: I'd have used this lawsuit from last year, but I'm not sure if it was a Glock or an M&P. [don't click bad] https://www.expres snews.com/business/article/holster-defect-discharge-lawsuit-safariland-texas-19862535.php You can be reasonably certain her finger wasn't on the trigger because she shot the tip of her trigger finger off. Quoted: Quoted: Yea, I chuckled at the "regularly" word choice too. uh huh. I'd have used this lawsuit from last year, but I'm not sure if it was a Glock or an M&P. [don't click bad] https://www.expres snews.com/business/article/holster-defect-discharge-lawsuit-safariland-texas-19862535.php You can be reasonably certain her finger wasn't on the trigger because she shot the tip of her trigger finger off. pay wall. Site has AIDS and I couldn't read. Pointing out that some accidents may have other causes is meaningless. This whole conversation started years ago because of the excessive rate of failure specific to P320s. As in, excessive above baseline. Baseline does still happen. and some claims will be operator trying to weasel out - we all know that. P320 is a particularly bad gun because it's light no-safe trigger design already makes it prone to a higher likelihood of having a discharge from trigger molestation while in an improperly supported holster. That alone was damning enough. Now we see on top of that, the trigger design and manufacture is defective, causing safety sear to not even be working way too many times. So there are 2 failures with P320- it goes off on its own. AND it's more likely to more easily go off by trigger being touched accidentally. Both are bad. Pointing out that other guns sometimes can discarge too, doesn't negate that P320's are much more prone to this than baseline. Bottom line- if you don't want a round in your leg or a career destroying AD blamed on you, SIG P320 is a bad starting point. |
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Quoted: The trigger safety is primarily there to make Glocks drop safe. Glock's trigger and trigger bar move in the same direction, so in a muzzle up drop the momentum of the two parts work together to fire the pistol; the safety tab is necessary to prevent movement. Any resistance to foreign objects in the trigger guard is incidental. The trigger bar and trigger move in opposite directions in the P320 so a safety tab shouldn't have been necessary, but Sig obviously fucked it up. I suspect the design of the striker safety lifting lever is a big part of the problem. Citation needed. |
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Quoted: Citation needed. Quoted: Quoted: The trigger safety is primarily there to make Glocks drop safe. Glock's trigger and trigger bar move in the same direction, so in a muzzle up drop the momentum of the two parts work together to fire the pistol; the safety tab is necessary to prevent movement. Any resistance to foreign objects in the trigger guard is incidental. The trigger bar and trigger move in opposite directions in the P320 so a safety tab shouldn't have been necessary, but Sig obviously fucked it up. I suspect the design of the striker safety lifting lever is a big part of the problem. Citation needed. It’s true. |
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Quoted: Citation needed. Quoted: Quoted: The trigger safety is primarily there to make Glocks drop safe. Glock's trigger and trigger bar move in the same direction, so in a muzzle up drop the momentum of the two parts work together to fire the pistol; the safety tab is necessary to prevent movement. Any resistance to foreign objects in the trigger guard is incidental. The trigger bar and trigger move in opposite directions in the P320 so a safety tab shouldn't have been necessary, but Sig obviously fucked it up. I suspect the design of the striker safety lifting lever is a big part of the problem. Citation needed. It used to explicitly say this on Glock's website. It referred to the tabbed trigger as an inertial drop safety. |
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Quoted: It’s true. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The trigger safety is primarily there to make Glocks drop safe. Glock's trigger and trigger bar move in the same direction, so in a muzzle up drop the momentum of the two parts work together to fire the pistol; the safety tab is necessary to prevent movement. Any resistance to foreign objects in the trigger guard is incidental. The trigger bar and trigger move in opposite directions in the P320 so a safety tab shouldn't have been necessary, but Sig obviously fucked it up. I suspect the design of the striker safety lifting lever is a big part of the problem. Citation needed. It’s true. Yes, citation for what? It's common knowledge. |
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Quoted: Citation needed. |
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Sig could have put out a online survey a few years ago asking the public what they want Sig to do to "improve" their products. A "get in touch with the people" campaign. Then sometime later they could have added a trigger dingus to the P320 and then publicly state they followed the suggestions. Ruger has the email the CEO thing. PSA had a survey about new products as well. Then all the haters could only complain about ron cohen banging their girlfriend or the high boar axis or cheap plastic, or whatever complaint du jour. Or MIM, Or I mean just Indian MIM now. |
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Quoted: Citation needed. Quoted: Quoted: The trigger safety is primarily there to make Glocks drop safe. Glock's trigger and trigger bar move in the same direction, so in a muzzle up drop the momentum of the two parts work together to fire the pistol; the safety tab is necessary to prevent movement. Any resistance to foreign objects in the trigger guard is incidental. The trigger bar and trigger move in opposite directions in the P320 so a safety tab shouldn't have been necessary, but Sig obviously fucked it up. I suspect the design of the striker safety lifting lever is a big part of the problem. Citation needed. I stand corrected. |
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Thank you! |
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Quoted: My guy, I'm just trying to get you to accept the reality that some of the P320 holster fires are almost certainly due to something pulling the trigger, and help you understand that it's more likely when the holster doesn't fully cover the trigger guard. Every other manufacturer uses trigger safeties which make their guns both drop safe, unlike Sig, and less prone to fire if the trigger gets snagged, unlike Sig. A very stupid design by a very stupid company that specializes in very stupid designs. So the key takeaway is keep stuff from dangling into your holster, and never carry a Sig 320 loaded per the instruction manual. |
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I can't get over the absolute lunacy of Sig branding and selling the 320 as a military / LEO duty gun. Then after millions are purchased, and it's known to have safety issues, the absolute audacity to publish a manual saying that it can only be carried with an empty chamber. Fuck Sig. I don't even own any of their shitty pistols or rifles, but I would never buy one now, of any kind. Not after they treat our Military and cops like this. |
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Quoted: I can't get over the absolute lunacy of Sig branding and selling the 320 as a military / LEO duty gun. Then after millions are purchased, and it's known to have safety issues, the absolute audacity to publish a manual saying that it can only be carried with an empty chamber. Fuck Sig. I don't even own any of their shitty pistols or rifles, but I would never buy one now, of any kind. Not after they treat our Military and cops like this. I knew Sig and Ron Cohen were shit in 2017. Perk Grok… The SIG Sauer P320 drop issue refers to a safety concern identified in 2017 where certain P320 pistols could discharge unintentionally when dropped at a specific angle. When the pistol was dropped with the bore facing upward and the rear of the slide and frame hitting a hard surface simultaneously (approximately a -30-degree angle), the impact could cause the trigger to move rearward enough to disengage the firing pin safety plunger. Combined with the chassis flexing and allowing the sear to release the striker, this could result in an uncommanded discharge. This issue was primarily linked to the heavier trigger design in early P320 models, which had enough inertial mass to move under impact. The problem came to light after a Texas gun store, Omaha Outdoors, conducted drop tests and released a video showing consistent discharges in multiple P320 variants when dropped at this angle. The issue was further corroborated by reports, including a leaked memo from the Dallas Police Department, which temporarily suspended P320 use due to safety concerns. The U.S. Army had also identified this issue during testing before adopting the P320 as the M17, but SIG Sauer implemented fixes for military models earlier than for commercial ones. SIG Sauer responded by announcing a Voluntary Upgrade Program in August 2017, offering free modifications to P320 owners. The upgrades included a lighter trigger with reduced mass, a new striker, sear, and a mechanical disconnector to prevent the trigger from moving during a drop. These changes effectively resolved the drop safety issue, and SIG Sauer stated the upgraded pistols passed rigorous testing, with no discharges in over 2,200 drop tests. The company maintained that the P320 met U.S. safety standards (ANSI/SAAMI) even before the upgrade, as the problematic drop angle was outside standard testing protocols. While the drop issue was addressed, some controversy persisted due to lawsuits alleging injuries from early-model P320s and claims that SIG Sauer delayed public acknowledgment of the problem. However, models like the P320 X-Five and those with aftermarket lighter triggers (e.g., Apex Tactical) showed reduced or no issues even before the upgrade, as their triggers had less mass. The M17 and M18 variants, equipped with manual thumb safeties, were unaffected by the issue. Owners of older P320s were encouraged to send their pistols to SIG Sauer for the free upgrade to ensure drop safety. Ron Cohen, CEO of SIG Sauer, made several statements regarding the P320 drop issue in 2017, reflecting the company’s position and response to the controversy. His comments primarily focused on defending the safety of the P320, addressing the drop test concerns, and outlining SIG Sauer’s actions. Below is a summary of his key statements based on available information: 1. Initial Denial of Drop-Related Incidents: On August 4, 2017, Cohen stated, “There have been zero (0) reported drop-related P320 incidents in the U.S. commercial market, with hundreds of thousands of guns delivered to date.” This was in response to early rumors about the P320’s drop safety, before Omaha Outdoors published their drop test video on August 7, 2017, demonstrating the issue. 2. Acknowledgment of the Issue and Voluntary Upgrade: After the Omaha Outdoors video and reports from the Dallas Police Department, SIG Sauer announced a Voluntary Upgrade Program on August 8, 2017. Cohen acknowledged the drop issue, stating, “Recent events indicate that dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.” He emphasized that SIG Sauer had developed enhancements based on input from law enforcement, government, and military customers, including improvements to drop performance. Cohen described the program as part of SIG Sauer’s commitment to “innovation, optimization, and performance, ensuring we produce the finest possible products.” 3. Perspective on Drop Safety: Cohen expressed a nuanced view on the concept of “drop safe,” stating, “Drop safe, those two words don’t exist together. No gun is drop safe. It’s a function of angle, height, and surface. If you build it completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Inherently guns are not meant to be dropped, and are unsafe when dropped.” He argued that no firearm is entirely immune to discharging when dropped under specific conditions and suggested that the statistical improbability of the exact drop angle (-30 degrees) causing a discharge was extremely low. 4. Defense of the P320’s Safety and Testing: Cohen defended the P320’s design, asserting that it was “the safest striker-fired pistol on the market” and designed to address common issues in striker-fired pistols, such as the need to pull the trigger for disassembly. He highlighted that the P320 passed rigorous industry and government standards, including ANSI/SAAMI, NIJ, FBI/DOJ, and tests required by Massachusetts and California. He also noted that the M17 variant, selected by the U.S. Army, was unaffected by the drop issue, as it already incorporated the upgrades later offered to commercial customers. 5. Commitment to Safety and Reliability: Cohen reiterated SIG Sauer’s focus on safety, stating, “SIG SAUER is committed to producing only the finest products. Safety and reliability have been and always will be paramount to the SIG SAUER brand.” He also mentioned that the company invested heavily in product development and testing, claiming SIG Sauer spent more on these areas than any other in the industry. Context and Criticism Cohen’s statements were made during a period of intense scrutiny following the Dallas Police Department’s temporary suspension of P320 use and the widely circulated Omaha Outdoors video. Critics, including some in online forums, challenged his initial claim of zero incidents, pointing out that law enforcement reports (e.g., a Connecticut officer’s lawsuit in January 2017) suggested otherwise. His assertion that no gun is truly drop safe drew backlash, with some arguing it downplayed the P320’s specific vulnerability compared to competitors like Glock, which did not exhibit the same issue in similar tests. Additionally, Cohen’s statements were seen by some as lacking transparency, particularly since the U.S. Army had identified and addressed the drop issue in the M17 before the commercial market was informed. A 2018 CNN report noted that SIG Sauer did not respond to repeated requests for comment, and Cohen was reportedly unavailable during this period, which fueled perceptions of delayed accountability. Later Statements (Post-2017) While the question focuses on the 2017 drop issue, it’s worth noting that Cohen addressed broader P320 safety concerns in a 2024 interview, calling critics “vultures that enjoy picking at a company” and defending the P320’s adoption by military and law enforcement agencies worldwide. He emphasized the rigorous testing by these entities, suggesting their trust in the P320 validated its safety. However, this statement was more about ongoing lawsuits alleging uncommanded discharges rather than the specific drop issue. Conclusion In 2017, Ron Cohen initially denied reported drop-related incidents but quickly acknowledged the issue after evidence emerged, announcing a Voluntary Upgrade Program to address the P320’s drop safety vulnerability. He maintained that the P320 met U.S. safety standards, framed drop safety as a complex issue inherent to all firearms, and emphasized SIG Sauer’s commitment to safety through testing and upgrades. However, his statements faced criticism for perceived defensiveness and delayed transparency, particularly given earlier fixes for military models. If you need further details or specific quotes from a particular source, let me know!” |
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Why the absolute fuck would anybody defend this guy or his company? Unreal. Attached File |
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Quoted: Why the absolute fuck would anybody defend this guy or his company? Unreal. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/Screenshot_20250503-135426-431_png-3532137.JPG I have no idea. Sig/Cohen should’ve faced much more backlash in 2017. The fact they have ANOTHER major safety issue with the same gun and are still actively denying it and further are continuing to sell it is mind boggling. I’d bet a large sum of money this story ends with a “Boeing” style Netflix documentary. |
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Quoted: Why the absolute fuck would anybody defend this guy or his company? Unreal. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/Screenshot_20250503-135426-431_png-3532137.JPG |
Have not watched: Worlds Coolest Pistol? 9mm Flux Raider - A Quick Look at This Amazing Pistol |
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Quoted: Why the absolute fuck would anybody defend this guy or his company? Unreal. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/Screenshot_20250503-135426-431_png-3532137.JPG Wow. |
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Can we get a quick rundown? At least some context why this video is relevant for the thread?
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Quoted: Can we get a quick rundown? At least some context why this video is relevant for the thread? Quoted: It's got a 320 in it. Still haven't watched it. I'm going to bed, working a gun show tomorrow. |
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Quoted: pay wall. Site has AIDS and I couldn't read. Pointing out that some accidents may have other causes is meaningless. This whole conversation started years ago because of the excessive rate of failure specific to P320s. As in, excessive above baseline. Baseline does still happen. and some claims will be operator trying to weasel out - we all know that. P320 is a particularly bad gun because it's light no-safe trigger design already makes it prone to a higher likelihood of having a discharge from trigger molestation while in an improperly supported holster. That alone was damning enough. Now we see on top of that, the trigger design and manufacture is defective, causing safety sear to not even be working way too many times. So there are 2 failures with P320- it goes off on its own. AND it's more likely to more easily go off by trigger being touched accidentally. Both are bad. Pointing out that other guns sometimes can discarge too, doesn't negate that P320's are much more prone to this than baseline. Bottom line- if you don't want a round in your leg or a career destroying AD blamed on you, SIG P320 is a bad starting point. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yea, I chuckled at the "regularly" word choice too. uh huh. [don't click bad] https://www.expressnews.com/business/article/holster-defect-discharge-lawsuit-safariland-texas-19862535.php You can be reasonably certain her finger wasn't on the trigger because she shot the tip of her trigger finger off. Pointing out that some accidents may have other causes is meaningless. This whole conversation started years ago because of the excessive rate of failure specific to P320s. As in, excessive above baseline. Baseline does still happen. and some claims will be operator trying to weasel out - we all know that. P320 is a particularly bad gun because it's light no-safe trigger design already makes it prone to a higher likelihood of having a discharge from trigger molestation while in an improperly supported holster. That alone was damning enough. Now we see on top of that, the trigger design and manufacture is defective, causing safety sear to not even be working way too many times. So there are 2 failures with P320- it goes off on its own. AND it's more likely to more easily go off by trigger being touched accidentally. Both are bad. Pointing out that other guns sometimes can discarge too, doesn't negate that P320's are much more prone to this than baseline. Bottom line- if you don't want a round in your leg or a career destroying AD blamed on you, SIG P320 is a bad starting point. https://archive.is/7IyUi San Antonio police officer Alyssa Hernandez was adjusting her holster last year when the keys to her cruiser became wedged between the holster and the trigger of her service weapon, causing the firearm to unintentionally discharge.
The bullet struck Hernandez’s right index finger, which was at the bottom of the holster. She was treated at the scene by the San Antonio Police Department before being taken to University Hospital, but the damage to her finger was so severe it had to be amputated below the knuckle. |
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Quoted: That is what it was designed for. I suspect the dingus also prevents a lot of holster bangs as an unintended benefit. *not in a lab using scientific instruments with a method approved by NASA, SIG, Glock, Safariland, and SDI. I used doodads instead like an ape fishing for termites. |
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Quoted: Why the absolute fuck would anybody defend this guy or his company? Unreal. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/Screenshot_20250503-135426-431_png-3532137.JPG JFC, what an irresponsible and technically misinformed statement to make. If Cohen's IQ ever gets to 60 he should sell. |
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Quoted: I can't get over the absolute lunacy of Sig branding and selling the 320 as a military / LEO duty gun. Then after millions are purchased, and it's known to have safety issues, the absolute audacity to publish a manual saying that it can only be carried with an empty chamber. Fuck Sig. I don't even own any of their shitty pistols or rifles, but I would never buy one now, of any kind. Not after they treat our Military and cops like this. I have 2 Romeo 5s and a Sig SLX556C-QD I’d love to rid myself of all things Sig at this point after all this, but the optics aren’t worth enough to sell but aren’t junk enough to toss and I’m clearly stuck the suppressor unless I sell at a huge loss and major hassle. |
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Quoted: I can't get over the absolute lunacy of Sig branding and selling the 320 as a military / LEO duty gun. Then after millions are purchased, and it's known to have safety issues, the absolute audacity to publish a manual saying that it can only be carried with an empty chamber. Fuck Sig. I don't even own any of their shitty pistols or rifles, but I would never buy one now, of any kind. Not after they treat our Military and cops like this. DEVGRU needs this info! eta: "The P320. It ends today... IF you carry with empty chamber." |
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I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to believe: There are 320s going off in 2016/2017. SIG repeatedly denies it. Bruce Gray brags about himself being an SME and says there's nothing wrong. Omaha Outdoors posts a video about how easy it is to get one to discharge. SIG still denies there's a problem but offers a "voluntary upgrade". Cohen says bullshit about no gun being drop safe. ...but in 2025, there are no issues this time, the denials are true, Bruce Gray is right this time, GBRS is right, everybody questioning it is wrong (and anti-gun). All from a company where the CEO has already run another company's reputation into the ground, been convicted of skirting weapon export laws (and fined $12M), a company that already has the reputation of dropping customer support and changing designs leaving buyers high and dry. But it's a conspiracy against SIG. The cope is real. I can't imagine being that married to a company. Why would anybody believe a fucking word that comes from SIG or Cohen? |
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Quoted: I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to believe: There are 320s going off in 2016/2017. SIG repeatedly denies it. Bruce Gray brags about himself being an SME and says there's nothing wrong. Omaha Outdoors posts a video about how easy it is to get one to discharge. SIG still denies there's a problem but offers a "voluntary upgrade". Cohen says bullshit about no gun being drop safe. ...but in 2025, there are no issues this time, the denials are true, Bruce Gray is right this time, GBRS is right, everybody questioning it is wrong (and anti-gun). All from a company where the CEO has already run another company's reputation into the ground, been convicted of skirting weapon export laws (and fined $12M), a company that already has the reputation of dropping customer support and changing designs leaving buyers high and dry. This time, dammit, it's a conspiracy against SIG! The cope is real. I can't imagine being that married to a company. Why would anybody believe a fucking word that comes from SIG or Cohen? Emotional attachment to justify their purchase |
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Quoted: Emotional attachment to justify their purchase Quoted: Quoted: I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to believe: There are 320s going off in 2016/2017. SIG repeatedly denies it. Bruce Gray brags about himself being an SME and says there's nothing wrong. Omaha Outdoors posts a video about how easy it is to get one to discharge. SIG still denies there's a problem but offers a "voluntary upgrade". Cohen says bullshit about no gun being drop safe. ...but in 2025, there are no issues this time, the denials are true, Bruce Gray is right this time, GBRS is right, everybody questioning it is wrong (and anti-gun). All from a company where the CEO has already run another company's reputation into the ground, been convicted of skirting weapon export laws (and fined $12M), a company that already has the reputation of dropping customer support and changing designs leaving buyers high and dry. This time, dammit, it's a conspiracy against SIG! The cope is real. I can't imagine being that married to a company. Why would anybody believe a fucking word that comes from SIG or Cohen? Emotional attachment to justify their purchase To be fair, it seems there are plenty of paid shills, like GBRS. They are covering for Sig and trying to obfuscate what seems to be, at this point, pretty clear cut safety issues. I don't see how any owner, invested in hundreds or a few thousand dollars of stuff, carries these pistols at this point. Sig has all but admitted the issue, with the updated disclaimer in the owners manual. Even if it's your only gun, just get a $500 Glock and a $30 holster and move on with life. |
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Quoted: I can't get over the absolute lunacy of Sig branding and selling the 320 as a military / LEO duty gun. Then after millions are purchased, and it's known to have safety issues, the absolute audacity to publish a manual saying that it can only be carried with an empty chamber. Fuck Sig. I don't even own any of their shitty pistols or rifles, but I would never buy one now, of any kind. Not after they treat our Military and cops like this. IMO, they are doing this because they know it is a flawed design that can’t be fixed with upgraded or redesigned parts in a recall campaign. Their execs are talking about this every day right now, half of them shitting their pants and the other half having sphincter spasms because their lawyers are telling them that the coming lawsuits will end them and they know that a recall and refund campaign is the only effective way to stop the lawsuits. |
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Quoted: Why the absolute fuck would anybody defend this guy or his company? Unreal. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/Screenshot_20250503-135426-431_png-3532137.JPG Nothing he says can explain why 320’s have Shake-Awake in their holsters where other brands do not. |
Making good points as usual. I am done with Sig |
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Quoted: IMO, they are doing this because they know it is a flawed design that can’t be fixed with upgraded or redesigned parts in a recall campaign. Their execs are talking about this every day right now, half of them shitting their pants and the other half having sphincter spasms because their lawyers are telling them that the coming lawsuits will end them and they know that a recall and refund campaign is the only effective way to stop the lawsuits. There isn’t really much in life that can’t be fixed with redesigned components. The firearm is not some magic gadget full of arcane secrets only to be deciphered by those of the cloth. However it is pretty likely at the current quantity sold, it a retrofit cannot be accomplished through current part modification and instead requires a new part(s) (of which the slide is a big possibility) then a full recall (on top of legal liability) is likely a bankrupting endeavor |
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Quoted: Emotional attachment to justify their purchase Quoted: Quoted: I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to believe: There are 320s going off in 2016/2017. SIG repeatedly denies it. Bruce Gray brags about himself being an SME and says there's nothing wrong. Omaha Outdoors posts a video about how easy it is to get one to discharge. SIG still denies there's a problem but offers a "voluntary upgrade". Cohen says bullshit about no gun being drop safe. ...but in 2025, there are no issues this time, the denials are true, Bruce Gray is right this time, GBRS is right, everybody questioning it is wrong (and anti-gun). All from a company where the CEO has already run another company's reputation into the ground, been convicted of skirting weapon export laws (and fined $12M), a company that already has the reputation of dropping customer support and changing designs leaving buyers high and dry. This time, dammit, it's a conspiracy against SIG! The cope is real. I can't imagine being that married to a company. Why would anybody believe a fucking word that comes from SIG or Cohen? Emotional attachment to justify their purchase It's insane. It's just a gun. I've seen people give up on family members for less. |
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Quoted: It's insane. It's just a gun. I've seen people give up on family members for less. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to believe: There are 320s going off in 2016/2017. SIG repeatedly denies it. Bruce Gray brags about himself being an SME and says there's nothing wrong. Omaha Outdoors posts a video about how easy it is to get one to discharge. SIG still denies there's a problem but offers a "voluntary upgrade". Cohen says bullshit about no gun being drop safe. ...but in 2025, there are no issues this time, the denials are true, Bruce Gray is right this time, GBRS is right, everybody questioning it is wrong (and anti-gun). All from a company where the CEO has already run another company's reputation into the ground, been convicted of skirting weapon export laws (and fined $12M), a company that already has the reputation of dropping customer support and changing designs leaving buyers high and dry. This time, dammit, it's a conspiracy against SIG! The cope is real. I can't imagine being that married to a company. Why would anybody believe a fucking word that comes from SIG or Cohen? Emotional attachment to justify their purchase It's insane. It's just a gun. I've seen people give up on family members for less. oh, there's been a few DOOM -Must do this! directives the last few years, combined with a low enough failure rate I can get not everyone jumping on board. But yea, anyone who has been paying attention and has made it 60 pages into this, has been sufficiently informed that they should have figured it out by now. To keep sticking by SIG is basically akin to still sticking with Fauchi by now. Toss up on who's more ethical - him or SIG. |