[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 87 of 142)
|
Quoted: Unknown if the sear problems predate the VUP. From what I can gather, all the problems are likely to be a result of SIG's "fix". Quoted: Quoted: Adding a trigger safety won't fix the sear problems. Unknown if the sear problems predate the VUP. From what I can gather, all the problems are likely to be a result of SIG's "fix". |
| So, there haven't been any uncommanded discharges? |
|
Quoted: So, there haven't been any uncommanded discharges? Quoted: So, there haven't been any uncommanded discharges? The P320s did not hang themselves. |
|
Quoted: The "reassembly problem" was always a fringe case/red herring that didn't apply to most real world examples. I admit, I don't remember reading in the manual for my 3 to lock the slide back on reassembly before rotating the takedown lever, but its kind of instinctual so I always did it. |
|
Quoted: Ouch This is really damning having come from the FBI firearms division Nowhere for sig corporate/management to hide now Cooked  Its a bad day for sig shills |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Ouch This is really damning having come from the FBI firearms division Nowhere for sig corporate/management to hide now Cooked  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD3HR22yl8E |
|
Quoted: I was assured that the FBI report doesn't exist. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ouch This is really damning having come from the FBI firearms division Nowhere for sig corporate/management to hide now Cooked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD3HR22yl8ETo be completely honest, on the whole, I trust Sig much more than the FBI. On the topic of the P320, the FBI lab wins, but not by much. The FBI are well known political hacks. What is slightly lesser known, is that the FBI crime lab has over the years, promulgated many forms of junk science, they claim is evidence, leading to the false incarceration of thousands. |
 The FBI Killed the Sig P320  Attempting to reproduce the FBI's Aug. 2024 P320 Sear Movement Test  FBI releases fatal report on the Sig P320 handgun |
 It just got worse for SIG and the P320 |
 School Resource Officer Shot by Holstered P320 |
|
Quoted: Guy on the video says it was the FBI's ballistics research facility? Apparently that's in huntsville over by redstone... https://businessalabama.com/fbi-campus-takes-shape-in-huntsville/ Quoted: Quoted: Not to be a Doubting Thomas but the letterhead states Federal Bureau of Investigation and Drug Enforcement Administration. Is that even a thing?  Typing that into Google yields nothing, and entering Ballistic Research Facility only yields FBI stuff, nothing about DEA. Maybe I'm too jaded and cynical about...everything. Guy on the video says it was the FBI's ballistics research facility? Apparently that's in huntsville over by redstone... https://businessalabama.com/fbi-campus-takes-shape-in-huntsville/ Know what else is on Redstone? Army Contracting Command Headquarters. Hopefully where the contracting officer for the Sig contract sits. Maybe the FBI could drop a copy of this report off on their desk and get this contract killed before we have a line of Servicemen at the VA with a bullet hole in their right leg. |
|
I read the whole FBI report. It’s extremely damning for Sig and I think is near conclusive. I don’t see how anyone can claim the P320 is safe at this point, nor can I understand how anyone can defend Ron-Cohen-era Sig; it's an absolute garbage company run by garbage people making garbage products. I’d also like to note that earlier in this thread, I called exactly what is causing the problem as reproduced in the FBI report: shitty QC, shitty parts, frame/slide play in a holster = slipped sear and bypassed safeties. It’s been clear this whole time, and I’m so glad there is now proof via scientific testing. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/SIG-The-P320-It-ends-today-/5-2782910/?page=46#i113027092 Quoted: The big difference relative to the P320 is that all of those are hammer fired (I think). That's an important distinction because the trigger bar, sear, hammer, etc are all in the frame with an extremely low chance of any flexure causing loss of interface. With a striker fired gun, the sear and striker are in different parts of the gun (frame/slide), meaning there is a natural and unavoidable amount of play between the two that far exceeds anything that could happen in a hammer gun. I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's apples to apples with the P320. It's a different beast with a much higher chance of sear slippage since it's a striker gun. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/SIG-The-P320-It-ends-today-/5-2782910/?page=55#i113185226 Quoted: I saw the Triad video in the other thread, but didn't see it here, so reposting it along with my commentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b_Up5Ste9cHe uses modified parts and lighter aftermarket safety springs, so it's not 100% proof, but it's pretty convincing in narrowing down what the variables are. Worn sear that holds the fully-cocked firing pin back with less contact. Crudded up gun that makes safety springs have to work harder to push things back into place in the proper time. Shitty, weak springs from shitty Sig QC that can't overcome the crud. Shitty safeties with shitty tolerances because of shitty Sig QC that can't do their job: stop things from moving even if other systems fail. All combine to allow the sear to slip with external movement and the firing pin to bypass all safeties. Boom. Right into your dick. ETA: holster bois on suicide watch. Even called the dick shooting. That poor off-duty cop. 
|
|
Quoted: I read the whole FBI report. It’s extremely damning for Sig and I think is near conclusive. I don’t see how anyone can claim the P320 is safe at this point, nor can I understand how anyone can defend Ron-Cohen-era Sig; it's an absolute garbage company run by garbage people making garbage products. I’d also like to note that earlier in this thread, I called exactly what is causing the problem as reproduced in the FBI report: shitty QC, shitty parts, frame/slide play in a holster = slipped sear and bypassed safeties. It’s been clear this whole time, and I’m so glad there is now proof via scientific testing. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/SIG-The-P320-It-ends-today-/5-2782910/?page=46#i113027092 https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/SIG-The-P320-It-ends-today-/5-2782910/?page=55#i113185226 Even called the dick shooting. That poor off-duty cop. Quoted: I read the whole FBI report. It’s extremely damning for Sig and I think is near conclusive. I don’t see how anyone can claim the P320 is safe at this point, nor can I understand how anyone can defend Ron-Cohen-era Sig; it's an absolute garbage company run by garbage people making garbage products. I’d also like to note that earlier in this thread, I called exactly what is causing the problem as reproduced in the FBI report: shitty QC, shitty parts, frame/slide play in a holster = slipped sear and bypassed safeties. It’s been clear this whole time, and I’m so glad there is now proof via scientific testing. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/SIG-The-P320-It-ends-today-/5-2782910/?page=46#i113027092 Quoted: The big difference relative to the P320 is that all of those are hammer fired (I think). That's an important distinction because the trigger bar, sear, hammer, etc are all in the frame with an extremely low chance of any flexure causing loss of interface. With a striker fired gun, the sear and striker are in different parts of the gun (frame/slide), meaning there is a natural and unavoidable amount of play between the two that far exceeds anything that could happen in a hammer gun. I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's apples to apples with the P320. It's a different beast with a much higher chance of sear slippage since it's a striker gun. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/SIG-The-P320-It-ends-today-/5-2782910/?page=55#i113185226 Quoted: I saw the Triad video in the other thread, but didn't see it here, so reposting it along with my commentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b_Up5Ste9cHe uses modified parts and lighter aftermarket safety springs, so it's not 100% proof, but it's pretty convincing in narrowing down what the variables are. Worn sear that holds the fully-cocked firing pin back with less contact. Crudded up gun that makes safety springs have to work harder to push things back into place in the proper time. Shitty, weak springs from shitty Sig QC that can't overcome the crud. Shitty safeties with shitty tolerances because of shitty Sig QC that can't do their job: stop things from moving even if other systems fail. All combine to allow the sear to slip with external movement and the firing pin to bypass all safeties. Boom. Right into your dick. ETA: holster bois on suicide watch. Even called the dick shooting. That poor off-duty cop. What are your World Series predictions?
|
ICE dropping the 320: ICE is Ditching The P320 |
|
Quoted: To be completely honest, on the whole, I trust Sig much more than the FBI. On the topic of the P320, the FBI lab wins, but not by much. The FBI are well known political hacks. What is slightly lesser known, is that the FBI crime lab has over the years, promulgated many forms of junk science, they claim is evidence, leading to the false incarceration of thousands. "Bullet evidence" 
|
|
I never posted it, but I got the inside scoop months ago that HSI specifically had multiple uncommanded discharges among their P320s nationwide, and in general the quality of their guns was poor- sights falling off, that sort of thing. They’ll be much better served with Glock. |
|
Ouch. |
|
Wow. It keeps getting worse for Sig. Odds of a statement from them this week? |
|
Quoted: Yep SIG needs to figure out the issue and fix it. Quoted: Quoted: The slow heat death of the P320 SIG needs to figure out the issue and fix it. I find it extraordinarily hard to believe they don't know what the issue is, or what the fix would entail. It will clearly cost more than they're willing to pay in order to fix all of them, up to, and including replacing the pistols entirely. At that point it's simply a question of will they ever actually fix/replace them. |
|
Quoted: Wow. It keeps getting worse for Sig. Odds of a statement from them this week? Quoted: Wow. It keeps getting worse for Sig. Odds of a statement from them this week? |
|
Quoted: It ended on March 7th, the P320 is completely safe. Are you still talking about uncommanded discharges? Those have been talked about for months. Are people still talking about them? This craziness? That is unbelievable. Quoted: Quoted: Wow. It keeps getting worse for Sig. Odds of a statement from them this week? It ended on March 7th, the P320 is completely safe. Are you still talking about uncommanded discharges? Those have been talked about for months. Are people still talking about them? This craziness? That is unbelievable. Lookit November doin sarcasm! You've turned over a new leaf. GD has been a terrible influence on you.
|
|
Will Sig be joining the ICE protesters in the streets?
|
|
The report contains several wild statements that just shouldn't be true of a duty pistol. I find these particularly interesting:   Critical parts for your entire agency are out of spec, so we're just going to grind 'em in the shop? I also wonder how this "dead trigger" presented. And then there's this gem...  In what world is the sear a maintenance part on a duty gun? |
|
Quoted: I never posted it, but I got the inside scoop months ago that HSI specifically had multiple uncommanded discharges among their P320s nationwide, and in general the quality of their guns was poor- sights falling off, that sort of thing. They’ll be much better served with Glock. Quoted: I never posted it, but I got the inside scoop months ago that HSI specifically had multiple uncommanded discharges among their P320s nationwide, and in general the quality of their guns was poor- sights falling off, that sort of thing. They’ll be much better served with Glock. I just retired from HSI and heard the same. I carried my personally owned Glocks for the past 16 years under their policy. The P229 was garbage, the P320 was worse. Hopefully they have learned and steer clear of Sig. It’s Glock or HK FTW. The only handgun brands I would bet my life on. |
|
Quoted: The report contains several wild statements that just shouldn't be true of a duty pistol. ........ And then there's this gem... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GvcDTFDXcAASJvZ?format=png&name=small In what world is the sear a maintenance part on a duty gun? Does Sig carve the sear out of a block of cheese? |
|
Quoted: In what world does a sear only last 20K cycles???(!!!) Does Sig carve the sear out of a block of cheese? Quoted: Quoted: The report contains several wild statements that just shouldn't be true of a duty pistol. ........ And then there's this gem... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GvcDTFDXcAASJvZ?format=png&name=small In what world is the sear a maintenance part on a duty gun? Does Sig carve the sear out of a block of cheese? It’s my understanding they are made of Gallium. |
|
Quoted: I just retired from HSI and heard the same. I carried my personally owned Glocks for the past 16 years under their policy. The P229 was garbage, the P320 was worse. Hopefully they have learned and steer clear of Sig. It’s Glock or HK FTW. The only handgun brands I would bet my life on. That's extremely telling. Would you mind sharing what sort of issues you had with the P229? I carry a relatively new one and had always thought the classic P series line was good to go. I prefer DA/SA, maybe this is an excuse to get a P30 
|
|
Quoted: It’s my understanding they are made of Gallium. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The report contains several wild statements that just shouldn't be true of a duty pistol. ........ And then there's this gem... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GvcDTFDXcAASJvZ?format=png&name=small In what world is the sear a maintenance part on a duty gun? Does Sig carve the sear out of a block of cheese? It’s my understanding they are made of Gallium. Roncohenium......its a combination of Gallium and bullshit.  |
|
Quoted: That's extremely telling. Would you mind sharing what sort of issues you had with the P229? I carry a relatively new one and had always thought the classic P series line was good to go. I prefer DA/SA, maybe this is an excuse to get a P30 I'll inject my first Cohen era SIG experience. My department transitioned to P229s and P239s in 2011 (after T&E on P250s, which everybody hated). During the 300rd course, five out of my group of 20 shooters had their plastic guide rods break. New duty guns immediately out of service. SIG sent metal replacements for all the guns bought. |
|
Quoted: I'll inject my first Cohen era SIG experience. My department transitioned to P229s and P239s in 2011 (after T&E on P250s, which everybody hated). During the 300rd course, five out of my group of 20 shooters had their plastic guide rods break. New duty guns immediately out of service. SIG sent metal replacements for all the guns bought. Quoted: Quoted: That's extremely telling. Would you mind sharing what sort of issues you had with the P229? I carry a relatively new one and had always thought the classic P series line was good to go. I prefer DA/SA, maybe this is an excuse to get a P30 I'll inject my first Cohen era SIG experience. My department transitioned to P229s and P239s in 2011 (after T&E on P250s, which everybody hated). During the 300rd course, five out of my group of 20 shooters had their plastic guide rods break. New duty guns immediately out of service. SIG sent metal replacements for all the guns bought. Very interesting, I also have my father’s old P239 duty weapon that I’ll carry on occasion. No idea if that one has a plastic or metal guide rod but now I’m curious and going to check. |
|
Bruce Gray debunks FBI's report, so I guess it ends today. Attached File |
|
Quoted: Bruce Gray debunks FBI's report, so I guess it ends today. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/Screenshot_20250709-202415-112_png-3583595.JPG I guess that means it's 100% accurate. If Bruce Gray says it isn't legit, then it is DEFINITELY legit lol. |
|
Quoted: Bruce Gray debunks FBI's report, so I guess it ends today. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/Screenshot_20250709-202415-112_png-3583595.JPG Is Bruce the only guy on the planet that understands the 320? Is it that complex of a design? |
|
Quoted: Is Bruce the only guy on the planet that understands the 320? Is it that complex of a design? Quoted: Quoted: Bruce Gray debunks FBI's report, so I guess it ends today. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/Screenshot_20250709-202415-112_png-3583595.JPG Is Bruce the only guy on the planet that understands the 320? Is it that complex of a design? Also, didn't it come out that the P320 at Achilles Heel was a Gray Gun? |
|
Quoted: It ended on March 7th, the P320 is completely safe. Are you still talking about uncommanded discharges? Those have been talked about for months. Are people still talking about them? This craziness? That is unbelievable. Quoted: Quoted: Wow. It keeps getting worse for Sig. Odds of a statement from them this week? |