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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:24:03 PM EDT
[#1]
No one will ever be truly isolated or alone. Strange
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:25:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wwace: Starlink is being built for one simple reason. Latency. Lasers thru vacuum are faster than thru glass. in essence the whole system will be possible because traders will pay huge money to get their trades in first. I thought it was being built for profit. Or power |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:33:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Aside from being an eyesore for stargazers. It's not just amateur astronomers--professional astronomy/astrophysics has many billions of dollars invested in equipment and infrastructure around the world. This will destroy all ground based astronomy if allowed to happen, and they will not take it lying down. Musk just got some schlub FCC bureaucrat to okay it, evidently without consideration for the scientific community. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:37:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steve2071: If I can get wifi while shitting in a hole behind a rock in the middle of the Mojave, I support this 10000000% Stargazers, Shmargazers. 99.8% of the population would not care if they could see the moon, much less concern for squinting at Phaeton 363 off Orion's Belt. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:46:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hvla: i believe that isnt an issue now, but when there are like 100k up there it will be lol Not only that, but if they have only a .5% failure rate, that still means 500 satelites dropping out of the sky onto who knows what! I have not heard that talked about much. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:49:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wwace: Starlink is being built for one simple reason. Latency. Lasers thru vacuum are faster than thru glass. in essence the whole system will be possible because traders will pay huge money to get their trades in first. I dont know anything about speed trades, but I found that laser com interlink aspect of Musk's sky grid to be fascinating. I do know broadcast bandwidth is sliced, diced,fooled and multiplexed to get a ton of shit on highly regulated frequency allotment. A brother of mine works for Verizon. Whoever thought up that sidestep with lasers was brilliant. Also seems hard to hack/interfere with seeing access is 500 miles up. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:50:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: I sure hope so cause my new house has zero options for internet outside satellite or wireless broadband Get wireless broadband, its fast as fuck. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:51:44 PM EDT
[#8]
The way the world has been going lately it'll turn out Elon has a small tac nuke on every one of those things.
I'm not sure what his demands might be, but since he's crazy now it might be fun. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:52:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: It is silly, but I love the idea of streaming 4k Netflix to a RV that is driving down the road. Whatever TV you have in an RV is going to be too small to notice the difference between 4K and HD. Waste of bandwidth. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:54:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By compulynx: Not only that, but if they have only a .5% failure rate, that still means 500 satelites dropping out of the sky onto who knows what! I have not heard that talked about much. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By compulynx: Originally Posted By hvla: i believe that isnt an issue now, but when there are like 100k up there it will be lol Not only that, but if they have only a .5% failure rate, that still means 500 satelites dropping out of the sky onto who knows what! I have not heard that talked about much. The birds are designed to burn up on reentry without anything making it to the ground. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 6:56:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Saw them last night for the first time.
Didn't realize you could see them that clear. That is definitely going to fuck up the sky once they are all up there. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:00:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scratch45: No one will ever be truly isolated or alone. Strange That tech has already been here for years. I spend a lot of my free time solo in the woods and water. Used an Inreach satellite texting device for five years now. I get separated from my boat or break a tibia in the woods and a single button push let's the SAR calvary knows exactly where I am. $15/month and I have tech in my pocket that was only available to government snakeaters just a couple of decades ago. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:02:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By compulynx: Not only that, but if they have only a .5% failure rate, that still means 500 satelites dropping out of the sky onto who knows what! I have not heard that talked about much. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By compulynx: Originally Posted By hvla: i believe that isnt an issue now, but when there are like 100k up there it will be lol Not only that, but if they have only a .5% failure rate, that still means 500 satelites dropping out of the sky onto who knows what! I have not heard that talked about much. They are designed to vaporize on reentry. They are also rather small. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:06:09 PM EDT
[#14]
It will open up speeds to areas now where it is not available. Not likely to put telecoms out of business. If you have good service now, switching would depend on how you use the internet. Latency a big one. Directional speed difference, that may or may not impact some people. A lot of what you use the internet for and where you are.
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:06:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryM: No more escaping work and friends by "vacationing in the mountains". Tell your wife you are fishing with the guys? Yeah, she can still call to check up on you. Guess you can say this will really limit being able to disconnect from the rest of the world. Good or bad is your call. So dont take the phone with you? 
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:08:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Looks like FL Man has a show tonight with starlink3
https://www.satflare.com/track.asp?q=StarLink3#TOP |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:10:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flysc: Those proposed 40,000 satellites all have reflective solar panels. I'm looking forward to 24 hours of sunlight in a day. Think of all we can accomplish with a full day's span of daylight.  Will that provide us will the extra vitamin D that our body needs to fight of the Coronavirus? |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:12:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stillerfan: It will be nice for remote use and add much needed bandwidth to remote locations but I don't think it's going to change things for folks who get 4G now. He is making launches cheaper but he'll never beat the price of a tower. With the altitude and distances involved the RF propagation challenges are trickier especially with moving platforms. This is a science project. Wow I was about to call BS but the difference is astounding. $150k per tower and roughly $1 million per starlink sat launched. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:13:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scratch45: A precursor to beaming solar energy to the earth which has all kinds interesting ramifications Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scratch45: Originally Posted By Flysc: Those proposed 40,000 satellites all have reflective solar panels. I'm looking forward to 24 hours of sunlight in a day. Think of all we can accomplish with a full day's span of daylight. A precursor to beaming solar energy to the earth which has all kinds interesting ramifications Yeah don't be off target. Whoops! Dayton, OH just got fried! |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:14:32 PM EDT
[#20]
It will be interesting to see how affordable Starlink phased array CPE is.
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:16:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By billth777: Wow I was about to call BS but the difference is astounding. $150k per tower and roughly $1 million per starlink sat launched. A single "carrier" WISP tower is a 3rd of that price built out and can deliver 100M today. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:44:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: The birds are designed to burn up on reentry without anything making it to the ground. Almost but not quite. The laser focusing lens will not burn up during reentry. The plan as I understand it is to deorbit the satellites when they have reached their service life to prevent the lens (I want to think it is 3 per bird) from hitting any populated areas, |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 7:49:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RAL: Will that provide us will the extra vitamin D that our body needs to fight of the Coronavirus? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RAL: Originally Posted By Flysc: Those proposed 40,000 satellites all have reflective solar panels. I'm looking forward to 24 hours of sunlight in a day. Think of all we can accomplish with a full day's span of daylight. Will that provide us will the extra vitamin D that our body needs to fight of the Coronavirus? That and electrolytes...it's what plants crave. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 8:03:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blue_Devil_JD: Boeing could have made starling, faster and cheaper. They could have launched it on SLS. They just didn’t want to. They respect stargazers in this country. Right. “Stargazers” over money... 
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Posted: 5/11/2020 9:50:47 AM EDT
[#25]
I think the light pollution sucks, but I also think it has the potential to change things far beyond what most have mentioned in this thread
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Posted: 5/11/2020 11:01:09 AM EDT
[#26]
I got curious about starlink after reading one of the other threads.
I dug into it a little bit. I couldn't figure out how it is going to be profitable. Cost per satellite is estimated at $1M. 12,000 satellites means $12B. However the actual cost to get them in orbit is higher. WS analysts are estimating up to 60B. That's a lot of infrastructure cost. Then, I read that the life expectancy is 5 years, so I guess they're going to have to replace 20% per year. Anyway, I think they'll need something more than access for rural folks to compete against ground based cellular and fiber. Interesting that Oneweb, which has already launched 74 satellites, has already filed for bankruptcy. Cool idea, though, star gazing aside. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 11:14:50 AM EDT
[#27]
I guess not being able to do any astronav or even follow the north star wont matter when you can use google maps
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wwace: Starlink is being built for one simple reason. Latency. Lasers thru vacuum are faster than thru glass. in essence the whole system will be possible because traders will pay huge money to get their trades in first. LOL that's retarded. You kill latency by proximity. A few miles of glass is faster than a few hundred miles of atom and vacuum to a ground station that still goes through a few miles of glass. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 11:26:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 351wsl: I got curious about starlink after reading one of the other threads. I dug into it a little bit. I couldn't figure out how it is going to be profitable. Cost per satellite is estimated at $1M. 12,000 satellites means $12B. However the actual cost to get them in orbit is higher. WS analysts are estimating up to 60B. That's a lot of infrastructure cost. Then, I read that the life expectancy is 5 years, so I guess they're going to have to replace 20% per year. Anyway, I think they'll need something more than access for rural folks to compete against ground based cellular and fiber. Interesting that Oneweb, which has already launched 74 satellites, has already filed for bankruptcy. Cool idea, though, star gazing aside. The cost per satellite is less than $1m per, including the launch. SpaceX marginal launch cost using a refurbed booster is less than $28m per launch, and they launch 60 at a time, and the launch cost is higher than the manufacturing cost. With Starship they can probably get the satellite cost to under $150k per. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 11:39:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Aside from being an eyesore for stargazers. Will it put AT&T out of business? If successful, what do you think the impact will be? Network access pretty much anywhere on the planet will be a gamechanger in ways that we can not even predict. But I would like to hear predictions  EDIT Everyone in this thread be like "I can have access in remote areas". I know. That is what STARLINK if for. After that obvious, what are the implications or ramifications? For instance, it could end state controlled media in countries like China and Best Korea everyone with a computer in china has a VPN, so the state controlled media is kind of a nothing burger there. and I dont know if the norks will be able to access it with dirt and rocks. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 11:49:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get wireless broadband, its fast as fuck. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 12:02:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: https://i.insider.com/5ddfaed8fd9db26d68087953?width=1136&format=jpeg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: Yes. Problem is it will make the internet musk's to control. And he could end up controlling solar batteries and panels... And transportation through his tunnel company.... And space... Will he be a benevolent or evil demigod? https://i.insider.com/5ddfaed8fd9db26d68087953?width=1136&format=jpeg I like the theory he is just an alien that want to go home and has to "invent" the tech to do it. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 12:15:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The cost per satellite is less than $1m per, including the launch. SpaceX marginal launch cost using a refurbed booster is less than $28m per launch, and they launch 60 at a time, and the launch cost is higher than the manufacturing cost. With Starship they can probably get the satellite cost to under $150k per. I still think they'll have to offer the majority of people (at least in the US) something more than they're getting today to get them to switch. 80% of the US is urban and has access to high speed internet, through both physical and wireless. To get those people to switch, you'll have to offer them something, whether its faster speed, lower latency, lower price, or new features. Personally, I'm interested because I have rural property without good access. But at my main home, in a town of 15K, have have 4 providers, 2 physical (1 cable & 1 fiber) and 2 cellular (Verizon and AT&T). I'm getting 30mb on 4G verizon and 100mb on fiber (actual speed tests). Anyway, should be interesting to see what happens. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 12:29:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're right. I just did some searching and found an article from last December saying they were down to $500K each, and speculating they would halve that again. I still think they'll have to offer the majority of people (at least in the US) something more than they're getting today to get them to switch. 80% of the US is urban and has access to high speed internet, through both physical and wireless. To get those people to switch, you'll have to offer them something, whether its faster speed, lower latency, lower price, or new features. Personally, I'm interested because I have rural property without good access. But at my main home, in a town of 15K, have have 4 providers, 2 physical (1 cable & 1 fiber) and 2 cellular (Verizon and AT&T). I'm getting 30mb on 4G verizon and 100mb on fiber (actual speed tests). Anyway, should be interesting to see what happens. Its not just for normal residential consumers. US .mil and others are going to use this and pay a big chunk of the costs. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 12:30:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BairnAtHeart: I get the impression Elon is trying to invent/implement every technology he can that appears in the Culture series books by Iain Banks. ...and I kinda hope he succeeds. Im more keeping an eye out for him to start lofting a bunch of mirrors. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 12:31:33 PM EDT
[#35]
It's already pissed astronomers and stargazers and astro-photographers off.
But billionaires who know better than the rest of us mere mortals gonna billionaire. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 12:33:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 351wsl: You're right. I just did some searching and found an article from last December saying they were down to $500K each, and speculating they would halve that again. I still think they'll have to offer the majority of people (at least in the US) something more than they're getting today to get them to switch. 80% of the US is urban and has access to high speed internet, through both physical and wireless. To get those people to switch, you'll have to offer them something, whether its faster speed, lower latency, lower price, or new features. Personally, I'm interested because I have rural property without good access. But at my main home, in a town of 15K, have have 4 providers, 2 physical (1 cable & 1 fiber) and 2 cellular (Verizon and AT&T). I'm getting 30mb on 4G verizon and 100mb on fiber (actual speed tests). Anyway, should be interesting to see what happens. Don't forget the market for this will be global, much more than just the U.S. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 12:37:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 351wsl: You're right. I just did some searching and found an article from last December saying they were down to $500K each, and speculating they would halve that again. I still think they'll have to offer the majority of people (at least in the US) something more than they're getting today to get them to switch. 80% of the US is urban and has access to high speed internet, through both physical and wireless. To get those people to switch, you'll have to offer them something, whether its faster speed, lower latency, lower price, or new features. Personally, I'm interested because I have rural property without good access. But at my main home, in a town of 15K, have have 4 providers, 2 physical (1 cable & 1 fiber) and 2 cellular (Verizon and AT&T). I'm getting 30mb on 4G verizon and 100mb on fiber (actual speed tests). Anyway, should be interesting to see what happens. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 351wsl: Originally Posted By Neotopiaman: The cost per satellite is less than $1m per, including the launch. SpaceX marginal launch cost using a refurbed booster is less than $28m per launch, and they launch 60 at a time, and the launch cost is higher than the manufacturing cost. With Starship they can probably get the satellite cost to under $150k per. I still think they'll have to offer the majority of people (at least in the US) something more than they're getting today to get them to switch. 80% of the US is urban and has access to high speed internet, through both physical and wireless. To get those people to switch, you'll have to offer them something, whether its faster speed, lower latency, lower price, or new features. Personally, I'm interested because I have rural property without good access. But at my main home, in a town of 15K, have have 4 providers, 2 physical (1 cable & 1 fiber) and 2 cellular (Verizon and AT&T). I'm getting 30mb on 4G verizon and 100mb on fiber (actual speed tests). Anyway, should be interesting to see what happens. Residential broadband is only part of it. Imagine an entirely re-worked cell network with global coverage and zero dead spots. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 12:40:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kugelblitz: It's already pissed astronomers and stargazers and astro-photographers off. But billionaires who know better than the rest of us mere mortals gonna billionaire. Get rich ...build giant laser shoot down satellites? If you can't well you suck at life 
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Posted: 5/11/2020 12:47:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scratch45: I saw them while camping last month. Interesting. Took me a minute to figure out WTF I was seeing. GPS changed the world. Location based services and google maps/directions are taken for granted - but amazing. (Used in conjunction with cell towers and wifi) If/when STARLINK comes on line, I believe it will have a huge impact. (hopefully for the better) It is an interesting time to be alive. History is replete with examples of Technology being used to enslave before it benefits people. Personally, I’d be more worried about 5G networks. The entire purpose of that technology was so that the Chinese government could handle all the data they want from cars without taxing the network. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:10:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No more escaping work and friends by "vacationing in the mountains". Tell your wife you are fishing with the guys? Yeah, she can still call to check up on you. Guess you can say this will really limit being able to disconnect from the rest of the world. Good or bad is your call. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:15:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BFskinner: Almost but not quite. The laser focusing lens will not burn up during reentry. The plan as I understand it is to deorbit the satellites when they have reached their service life to prevent the lens (I want to think it is 3 per bird) from hitting any populated areas, Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BFskinner: Originally Posted By Imzadi: The birds are designed to burn up on reentry without anything making it to the ground. Almost but not quite. The laser focusing lens will not burn up during reentry. The plan as I understand it is to deorbit the satellites when they have reached their service life to prevent the lens (I want to think it is 3 per bird) from hitting any populated areas, They fixed that. Link |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:17:49 PM EDT
[#42]
Currently it's only really going to have major ramifications for areas that currently have shit latency.
It is not going to replace cell phone carriers and major internet providers in big cities. It does not have the bandwidth and the receivers are the size of a pizza box. You can put one on your boat or rv but not in your pocket yet. The number of satellites that would be over an area like LA wouldn't support the number of users in that area. I suspect a lot of high volume traders are actually going to gobble up a lot of the bandwidth. This thing will be faster than the current fiber cable between NY and London. The implications for the global stock market might be staggering when this is implemented. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:21:34 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alien: The problem is when there will be thousands of them all within your view. I am not anti star link or anything. Just explaining the eventual issue. They are all getting sunshades moving forward you will have a very hard time finding any of the newer ones. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:26:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By QwikKotaTx: It's pissing my wife off. It's creating light pollution for telescopes trying to image/track orbital debris. https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/ojM2HoBH4LoV16RbVrksMX3HYAk=/0x1538:7939x5669/960x500/media/img/mt/2020/02/D00908899_i_r5001p01_CC_cleaned_2-2/original.jpg Aren't there shutters to help with this? shouldn't this shit get imaged from space anyway? |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:29:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Aside from being an eyesore for stargazers. Will it put AT&T out of business? If successful, what do you think the impact will be? Network access pretty much anywhere on the planet will be a gamechanger in ways that we can not even predict. But I would like to hear predictions EDIT Everyone in this thread be like "I can have access in remote areas". I know. That is what STARLINK if for. After that obvious, what are the implications or ramifications? For instance, it could end state controlled media in countries like China and Best Korea Well I know it will mean more post-processing in Astrophotography  BUT if it means I can live in the mountains and have badass internet... I'd be ok with it.
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:32:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fullpower: What round for StarLink ? Nudol or SM-3 |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:33:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By compulynx: Not only that, but if they have only a .5% failure rate, that still means 500 satelites dropping out of the sky onto who knows what! I have not heard that talked about much. there is a small engine part that is suspected to be able to survive reentry. It's been talked about. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:39:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: https://i.insider.com/5ddfaed8fd9db26d68087953?width=1136&format=jpeg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: Yes. Problem is it will make the internet musk's to control. And he could end up controlling solar batteries and panels... And transportation through his tunnel company.... And space... Will he be a benevolent or evil demigod? https://i.insider.com/5ddfaed8fd9db26d68087953?width=1136&format=jpeg At this point I trust Elon. Or for that matter the fictional Hank Scorpio more than Nancy Pelosi. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 1:41:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Breaking the incentive to live in the cities is for me one of the biggest draws..
drones delivering supplies to my remote compound as I commute in my Personal flying vehicle are all things that will be made possible by this technology.. In this future the convince of living in a city will be moot, political power will shift to more rural areas as people find a better future outside the wire. |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 2:37:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By turbo_infidel: Breaking the incentive to live in the cities is for me one of the biggest draws.. drones delivering supplies to my remote compound as I commute in my Personal flying vehicle are all things that will be made possible by this technology.. In this future the convince of living in a city will be moot, political power will shift to more rural areas as people find a better future outside the wire. That is an interesting thought. Not sure if that is what we will see happen, but I like it
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