User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 10:20:22 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't preclude them from teaching stupid shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You should get better instructors. I guarantee they’re all more qualified than you  Doesn't preclude them from teaching stupid shit. Yup, I’ll go with Pat Mac over Bizzarolibe. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 10:37:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not me, I want to slap people when they call a magazine a clip.   Attached File Attached File
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 10:43:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LE rifle instructor for many years. Speed reloads we don't engage the safety. Tactical reloads the safety is on. Two completely different reloads done under two completely differing circumstances and time/threat constraints. I'm always open to adopt new techniques but nothing I've seen in this thread has convinced me to deviate from the above. This |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 10:54:31 AM EDT
[#4]
If Im changing mags, I’m shooting at something.
Don’t need the safety on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 10:57:41 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What safety?... This. Won't carry a gun with external safety. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 11:00:25 AM EDT
[#6]
Safety off. If changing the mag, it's unloaded with the bolt locked to the rear. Bolt guns have the bolt to the rear.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 11:54:55 AM EDT
[#7]
If I'm changing mags, then I've been shooting at something. Why in the world would I have the safety on if I'm shooting at something? Engaging the safety during a course of fire is another step, another action, and another chance to get you hurt or killed. When my gun comes out of the holster, there is an instinctual and unconscious act of me disengaging the safety. I don't even think about it, it just happens. Therefore, the gun only comes out of my holster if I'm going to be shooting it. Otherwise, it's in the holster, loaded, cocked, and the safety is on.
When I'm at the range, I'm training as if I'm going to be defending myself or someone else. When the safety comes off, it doesn't go back on until the gun is going back into my holster. At that point, I'm done firing. But the gun has been reloaded and is in condition 1 (cocked and locked). But when I'm actively shooting, the safety is off. Hell, I can't even engage the safety during a mag change. When the slide locks back, it disengages the ability to put the safety on (I carry a 1911). And when I insert another mag, I go back to shooting. The gun doesn't even come down off the target. As I'm releasing the empty mag with my right hand, I'm reaching for a full one with my left hand at the same time. On my AR, it's the same thing. If I'm actively shooting/training, the safety is off until I'm done shooting. At that point, the gun is unloaded, the magazine has been removed, and it's been cleared. As well, you can't engage the safety if the rifle hasn't been "charged/cocked". |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 12:20:06 PM EDT
[#8]
This thread brings back memories of the guy with the deer in his avatar.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 12:20:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Beretta 92, 1911, AK pattern, AR15, Remington shotgun, Mossberg shotgun, SxS shotgun with tang safety, Glock, P320, M1903, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, etc.... are all really really different. If you are flipping the safety on all these when you reload God praise to you for knowing every manual of arms under duress. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes. And I went further, every firearm I carry defensively has a safety. I decided to do that not so much because I wanted a safety on everything, but because I have a safety on some things, and I wanted no variation in my muscle memory. No "which gun is it I have today.. is there a safety?" - there's a safety, and I always flip it. Why are you reloading under duress with all those different firearms? M1903? Tally ho, lads!  All of my defensive pistols are M&Ps, and all of my defensive long guns are ARs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 1:18:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Emergency reload - Off
Tactical reload - On |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 1:34:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are you reloading under duress with all those different firearms? M1903? Tally ho, lads! All of my defensive pistols are M&Ps, and all of my defensive long guns are ARs. But what if you get quantum leaped into WWI? In that highly probable scenario you'll get killed in the trenches if you waste time trying to put the safety on while reloading. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 1:43:03 PM EDT
[#12]
If bolt is open for mag change then no safety. If bolt is closed then yes safety
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 1:53:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Almost every negligent discharge I have witnessed with an AR, was during a mag change with the safety off.
This was in competition, not fighting. For people who do not train and fight with a rifle daily, it is probably a good practice. Not many of us are ever going to drain a mag in any kind of a fight. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 2:00:05 PM EDT
[#14]
lol
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 2:04:27 PM EDT
[#15]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 2:12:52 PM EDT
[#16]
That is dumb
Off. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 2:13:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't know. I don't carry a personal protection pistol with a safety. Just saying. This right here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 2:22:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if I don't change mags? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/524356/machine-gun-isolated-on-white-260nw-5140-2854614.JPG Then you should pull the bolt handle to the rear, apply the safety, and push the bolt handle forward before opening the feed tray cover. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 2:26:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jesus, no. Only time that safety goes back on is when the fight is over and all threats are verified defeated. Excellent answer! My handgun has a decocker and I use that before I holster. Only time I holster is if my target has caught fire or changed shape. Changing mag….. no safety on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 2:49:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Beretta 92, 1911, AK pattern, AR15, Remington shotgun, Mossberg shotgun, SxS shotgun with tang safety, Glock, P320, M1903, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, etc.... are all really really different. If you are flipping the safety on all these when you reload God praise to you for knowing every manual of arms under duress. Once my thumb is looking for the safety it works. What I'm trying to avoid is pulling the trigger and being surprised. I did say "carry defensively". I don't carry guns I have haven't practiced with so it's only p320, p365 and m&p (9mm, 40, and 10mm) plus my home defense AR right now. I have other guns, but they are range toys that are locked up and unloaded when not on the bench. For hunting firearms like shotguns and bolts I still do it but don't drill it and expect flipping off the safety to be more slow and deliberate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 4:17:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: +1 1) Sights 2) Safety, off 3) Trigger, finger on 4) Trigger, fingers off 5) Safety, on 6) Lower sights and re-assess That’s how it’s taught at Sig Sauer Academy. Safety is on and finger is off the trigger until your sights are on the target. This is of course for firearms that have a safety. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Am in the the process of firing a shot? No, then the safety is on. This stuff isn’t difficult. +1 1) Sights 2) Safety, off 3) Trigger, finger on 4) Trigger, fingers off 5) Safety, on 6) Lower sights and re-assess That’s how it’s taught at Sig Sauer Academy. Safety is on and finger is off the trigger until your sights are on the target. This is of course for firearms that have a safety. Oh, hell no. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 5:09:31 PM EDT
[#22]
I thought that this was the most retarded thread in arfcom's history, but these safety on assholes are winning me over. I'll retract my previous vote. #teamsafe
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 5:19:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Evidently I need to operate harder and with no safety.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 5:25:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless you're keeping your finger on the trigger during mag changes, you are putting the Glock on safe. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177643/maxresdefault__1__jpg-2854178.JPG The dingus is easy to remove. Enjoy no safety freedom. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 5:54:13 PM EDT
[#25]
This will bring all sorts of accusations and insults. But there was a time and place I carried a holstered 1911 in condition 0.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 5:54:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Double post.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 7:39:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This will bring all sorts of accusations and insults. But there was a time and place I carried a holstered 1911 in condition 0. A lot of guys did. "It has a grip safety." |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 7:51:23 PM EDT
[#28]
This place.
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 8:09:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: +1 1) Sights 2) Safety, off 3) Trigger, finger on 4) Trigger, fingers off 5) Safety, on 6) Lower sights and re-assess That’s how it’s taught at Sig Sauer Academy. Safety is on and finger is off the trigger until your sights are on the target. This is of course for firearms that have a safety. How can they teach that when most of their current pistols don't even have safeties? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 8:13:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How can they teach that when most of their current pistols don't even have safeties? They do make rifles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 8:20:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Yes, I put the safety anytime I load or unload my weapons. I also only carry them pointing straight up or down and make sure I never sweep a person with the barrel even if they are four houses over or in the car behind me.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 8:27:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Good practices.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 8:31:22 PM EDT
[#33]
I shoot Glocks......
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 8:34:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I shoot Glocks...... To be fair he did ask mainly about AR’s |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 8:36:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this safety on EMPTY gun? fuck that nonsense. top it off, then safety if the shooting has stopped. Plus, if the gun went click on an empty mag, most AR's wont go into safe. Just wasted time. How exactly are you going "click" on an empty mag with the bolt locked to the rear??? Safety on when not shooting. Includes reloads. Slam fires are a real thing. Tripping on something while moving is a real thing. Operating operationally in close proximity to other operators is a real thing (they frown on fratricide). Put the damn thing on safe, it literally takes micro seconds to disengage the safety and fire. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 9:16:39 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Im changing mags, I’m shooting at something. Don’t need the safety on. You also aren't using cover and you and your target don't move for the duration of your mag change too. Sweet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 9:26:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Off. Why would I put the safety on to mag change?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 9:41:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gun is empty, why put it on safe? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 9:44:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only on one type of reload though. You do an administrative/tactical reload then the gun isn’t empty and the bolt isn’t back. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 9:57:05 PM EDT
[#40]
There are four rules. Not five.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 11:08:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You also aren't using cover and you and your target don't move for the duration of your mag change too. Sweet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If Im changing mags, I’m shooting at something. Don’t need the safety on. You also aren't using cover and you and your target don't move for the duration of your mag change too. Sweet. You should try operating harder. Then you'd understand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 11:21:51 PM EDT
[#42]
I'd say use your safety. If you're changing mags you're not actively shooting. Hopefully you're using cover. You might even have some buddies around you. The enemy is probably also using cover. It's easy to do with an AR. That's part of the reason the manual of arms of a standard AR are usually preferred over the manual of arms of a standard AK. Things like that.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 11:25:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you want everyone around you to put it on safe or no? There's your answer I personally don't give any thought to if the people around me do or not. I'm generally not paying attention to them while I'm reloading. I've never engaged the safety while I'm reloading. If I'm done shooting before reloading, then, yes. If I intend to keep shooting, no. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 11:44:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Some of y’all need some good training.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/18/2023 12:44:18 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should try operating harder. Then you'd understand. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If Im changing mags, I’m shooting at something. Don’t need the safety on. You also aren't using cover and you and your target don't move for the duration of your mag change too. Sweet. You should try operating harder. Then you'd understand. I'm 420#, the best shape of my life. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/18/2023 1:05:09 AM EDT
[#46]
First, if Tier 1 groups teach it, it isn't dumb or stupid. If I am operating in their world, then on is the answer.
If I put the effort and time in training to engage the safety, so it is instinctive, then it is the best practice. If I am not willing or able to make it instinctive and I am not shooting with innocents around me, then not engaged is probably the right answer. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/18/2023 1:08:47 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How exactly are you going "click" on an empty mag with the bolt locked to the rear??? Safety on when not shooting. Includes reloads. Slam fires are a real thing. Tripping on something while moving is a real thing. Operating operationally in close proximity to other operators is a real thing (they frown on fratricide). Put the damn thing on safe, it literally takes micro seconds to disengage the safety and fire. Lol, safety on when not engaging the threat. Slam fires are only real if you're using the wrong primer, the primer is sticking out because the round was out of spec, or repeated chamberings that kept on creeping closer and closer to the anvil in the primer until the inevitable happens. Why would you keep rechambering the same round over and over? Why would you load out of spec ammo into your mags and chamber? Operator caused, not a real concern unless it's because of your negligence from ignorant complacency. If I am reloading while still engaging the threat because they're still dangerous, then I have already made the decision to destroy whom it's pointed at meaning no violation. And why are you having your finger in the trigger while moving? Safety violation, keep your finger off the trigger and weapon on safe until positive threat ID and then on fire until the threat has ended, back on safe. Operating in close proximity to what other operators say what now? Are you saying that we are going to have all of you mall operators who never operated ever, suddenly show up and reinforce during a home invasion!? Fuck ya, right on dude! Fictitious shit but so has been your reply so far. And fratricide, say what now buddy? Who's they here again, you studs ready to reinforce the entire 50 states and territories the moment the boogaloo signal gets put out? Put the BS on safe as well, it takes literally not much critical thinking to understand that when the threat hasn't ended, putting it on safe, reload, and then engage back on safe makes about as much sense as wiping your butt before pooping. That's just asking for darwin to win. Follow the four rules, if the four rules are being followed, then there's no problem. Only put on fire when the threat presents itself, no finger on trgger at any point of this until ready to shoot, threat ends, back on safe. Easy day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/18/2023 1:10:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are four rules. Not five. ^^ this 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/18/2023 1:24:16 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, safety on when not engaging the threat. Slam fires are only real if you're using the wrong primer, the primer is sticking out because the round was out of spec, or repeated chamberings that kept on creeping closer and closer to the anvil in the primer until the inevitable happens. Why would you keep rechambering the same round over and over? Why would you load out of spec ammo into your mags and chamber? Operator caused, not a real concern unless it's because of your negligence from ignorant complacency. If I am reloading while still engaging the threat because they're still dangerous, then I have already made the decision to destroy whom it's pointed at meaning no violation. And why are you having your finger in the trigger while moving? Safety violation, keep your finger off the trigger and weapon on safe until positive threat ID and then on fire until the threat has ended, back on safe. Operating in close proximity to what other operators say what now? Are you saying that we are going to have all of you mall operators who never operated ever, suddenly show up and reinforce during a home invasion!? Fuck ya, right on dude! Fictitious shit but so has been your reply so far. And fratricide, say what now buddy? Who's they here again, you studs ready to reinforce the entire 50 states and territories the moment the boogaloo signal gets put out? Put the BS on safe as well, it takes literally not much critical thinking to understand that when the threat hasn't ended, putting it on safe, reload, and then engage back on safe makes about as much sense as wiping your butt before pooping. That's just asking for darwin to win. Follow the four rules, if the four rules are being followed, then there's no problem. Only put on fire when the threat presents itself, no finger on trgger at any point of this until ready to shoot, threat ends, back on safe. Easy day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/18/2023 1:47:45 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, safety on when not engaging the threat. Slam fires are only real if you're using the wrong primer, the primer is sticking out because the round was out of spec, or repeated chamberings that kept on creeping closer and closer to the anvil in the primer until the inevitable happens. Why would you keep rechambering the same round over and over? Why would you load out of spec ammo into your mags and chamber? Operator caused, not a real concern unless it's because of your negligence from ignorant complacency. If I am reloading while still engaging the threat because they're still dangerous, then I have already made the decision to destroy whom it's pointed at meaning no violation. And why are you having your finger in the trigger while moving? Safety violation, keep your finger off the trigger and weapon on safe until positive threat ID and then on fire until the threat has ended, back on safe. Operating in close proximity to what other operators say what now? Are you saying that we are going to have all of you mall operators who never operated ever, suddenly show up and reinforce during a home invasion!? Fuck ya, right on dude! Fictitious shit but so has been your reply so far. And fratricide, say what now buddy? Who's they here again, you studs ready to reinforce the entire 50 states and territories the moment the boogaloo signal gets put out? Put the BS on safe as well, it takes literally not much critical thinking to understand that when the threat hasn't ended, putting it on safe, reload, and then engage back on safe makes about as much sense as wiping your butt before pooping. That's just asking for darwin to win. Follow the four rules, if the four rules are being followed, then there's no problem. Only put on fire when the threat presents itself, no finger on trgger at any point of this until ready to shoot, threat ends, back on safe. Easy day.  Attached File |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File