Saker S-1 personal jet aircraft - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Saker S-1 personal jet aircraft (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:08:37 PM EDT

Group buy?

http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/jets/saker-s-1-jet-chases-mach-99-top-speed

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:09:18 PM EDT

[#1]

Won't get off the ground, or probably paper for that matter.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:11:45 PM EDT

[#2]

There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:12:41 PM EDT

[#3]

There have been a number of companies over the years to try and develop a personal jet like this. None of those companies make it into production before they close their doors. ViperJet, ATG Javelin, etc.

Saker is just the latest and I don't hold out hope they'll make it.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:14:06 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:16:28 PM EDT

[#5]

There are few people with that kind of money interested in flying a few knots faster at the cost of losing all the spaciousness and comfort of a luxury jet.

Angeline, Cruise, and their ilk may buy it, but 5 or 10 sales do not a company make.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:16:35 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Because that one looks kinda like an Eagle?

Only thing I can think of.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:16:41 PM EDT

[#7]

Most of the ATG Javelin engineering team ended up at the company that I work for. I recall them telling a frustrating story of a merger killing the project.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:19:55 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD. This particular example has been babied.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:20:35 PM EDT

[#9]

I thought ejection seats were illegal on civilian aircraft.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:24:54 PM EDT

[#10]

Or you could buy a used MIG.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:27:21 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Or you could buy a used MIG.

They are actually quite simple to maintain compared to western aircraft. And relatively cheap, easy to fly. See my post above.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:29:18 PM EDT

[#12]

Hung start....

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:47:11 PM EDT

[#13]

Taking Orders

[I was searching articles and company information to find out whether Jim Bede is involved.]

Anyway, aviation hasn't lost all its dreamers, or millionaires with enough money to keep dreams alive. For a while.

2018... Sean Gillette has no idea. But there will be some pretty mockups and display tents at Oshkosh for the next two or three years.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:51:41 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

I haven't read up on things. Does the FAA still have the oppressive restrictions on flights on L39s that were to be enacted a few years ago? IIRC, they were going to be limited to airshows and very limited proficiency flights (vs the usual "$5,000 hamburger" X-Cs people were doing up to that point). For a while, I was under the impression that prices seemed to plummet as owners feared getting stuck with a near-useless acft.

Getting one of those was a daydream in years past. The train has sailed, but I still like to window shop warbirds on controller.com.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:52:47 PM EDT

[#15]

Looks like a cross between an F-15, F-14, and F-35. I like it.

It will never see production though.

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:53:37 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD.

Where are you going to get a waiver to go supersonic over the CONUS?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 6/27/2013 12:55:43 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
There have been a number of companies over the years to try and develop a personal jet like this. None of those companies make it into production before they close their doors. ViperJet, ATG Javelin, etc.

Saker is just the latest and I don't hold out hope they'll make it.

Took the words out of my mouth.

I used to work with a few guys from the defunct ATG, and have been a part myself of similar projects that went belly up.

Posted: 6/27/2013 1:02:11 PM EDT

[#18]

I'd rather have a transferrable A-10. With a tax stamp, of course.

Posted: 6/27/2013 1:02:14 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD.

Where are you going to get a waiver to go supersonic over the CONUS?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Waiver?

Posted: 6/27/2013 1:08:44 PM EDT

[#20]

6000 lb payload, if that doesn't include fuel how much .50 cal ammo and guns could she carry.

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:16:13 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD.

Where are you going to get a waiver to go supersonic over the CONUS?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Waiver?

Yeah, well...

Sonic boom? Sorry, no, I didn't hear anything but a compressor stall.

I don't have any room to talk, because I didn't have any waiver for the kinds of speeds I hit on the Baltimore-Washington Parkway over a decade ago.

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Posted: 6/27/2013 7:18:57 PM EDT

[#22]

They have been floating the Saker idea around for several years.

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:20:54 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD.

Where are you going to get a waiver to go supersonic over the CONUS?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Waiver?

Yeah, well...

Sonic boom? Sorry, no, I didn't hear anything but a compressor stall.

I don't have any room to talk, because I didn't have any waiver for the kinds of speeds I hit on the Baltimore-Washington Parkway over a decade ago.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I didn't say you should fly Mach 2, I said the aircraft was capable of it. If it can do Mach 2 it can do Mach 0.99, just like the Saker S-1, but it can do it much cheaper.

But whether in a Mig 21 or Saker S-1, what would stop you from flying over the pacific for 200 miles (out of US territorial waters, hitting Mach 1.1 over international waters, then slow back down to Mach .99 to re-enter US Airspace? Or Visit Bermuda in your aircraft and fly supersonic while over international waters going there?

Interesting Czech Mig21 video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHH-YI6Rj7w

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:28:15 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I thought ejection seats were illegal on civilian aircraft.

My understanding was that they're not, but expensive and cumbersome to keep licensed and certified. Kind of like the NFA of civil aviation... ridiculously overblown regulations and paperwork and inspections and other crap.

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:28:23 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Won't get off the ground, or probably paper for that matter.

First post.

You want a 2-seat jet... L-39. No new build is going to make it in the Bizjet market.

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:28:41 PM EDT

[#26]

Or carry passengers

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:29:54 PM EDT

[#27]

Never gonna happen

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:33:49 PM EDT

[#28]

Whatever happened to the BD-10J ?

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:36:23 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Where are you going to get a waiver to go supersonic over the CONUS?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Go out over the ocean. Scare the birds. It's fun.

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:40:06 PM EDT

[#30]

Now I'm going to have to go finish up my pilots license

The need to put some laser setups on them and let people have mock-dogfights.

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:42:41 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
There have been a number of companies over the years to try and develop a personal jet like this. None of those companies make it into production before they close their doors. ViperJet, ATG Javelin, etc.

Saker is just the latest and I don't hold out hope they'll make it.

I really wanted a Javelin.......

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:49:12 PM EDT

[#32]

Looks like a BD-10

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:50:48 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Looks like a BD-10

With twin engine redundancy.
The second engine is there to carry the pilot to the scene of the crash.

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:57:34 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Where are you going to get a waiver to go supersonic over the CONUS?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Go out over the ocean. Scare the birds. It's fun.

Yeah, I've got 7 million sitting around to do that with.

Posted: 6/27/2013 7:59:41 PM EDT

[#35]

Don't forget the Acrostar Mini-jet!

Posted: 6/27/2013 8:00:44 PM EDT

[#36]

Iran is already building those.

Posted: 6/27/2013 8:10:49 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Where are you going to get a waiver to go supersonic over the CONUS?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Go out over the ocean. Scare the birds. It's fun.

Yeah, I've got 7 million sitting around to do that with.

72k with that Mig linked above

2 seater - give me the 7 mil and I'll finish my ticket and bring you flying whenever you want...... then we can drink Mach 2.0 beers

Posted: 6/27/2013 8:15:36 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD. This particular example has been babied.

Mig 21s it was said exceeded mach 2 rarely, stories I read said it would need a total engine overhaul or new engine nearly every time it did. Also I am fairly certain pissant civis are not allowed to go supersonic over CONUS even if they could.

If you buy a Mig 21 buy a few spare engines.

Posted: 6/27/2013 8:20:34 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD. This particular example has been babied.

Mig 21s it was said exceeded mach 2 rarely, stories I read said it would need a total engine overhaul or new engine nearly every time it did. Also I am fairly certain pissant civis are not allowed to go supersonic over CONUS even if they could.

If you buy a Mig 21 buy a few spare engines.

Or really anything Russian.

They've never caught up to the west in terms of engine reliability or longevity.

And the Chinese haven't even caught up the Russians.

Posted: 6/27/2013 8:28:22 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD. This particular example has been babied.

Damn, that is what my dad sold his Piper Arrow for!

Posted: 6/27/2013 8:29:16 PM EDT

[#41]

Honda Jet is available right now.

Posted: 6/27/2013 8:40:55 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD. This particular example has been babied.

Mig 21s it was said exceeded mach 2 rarely, stories I read said it would need a total engine overhaul or new engine nearly every time it did. Also I am fairly certain pissant civis are not allowed to go supersonic over CONUS even if they could.

If you buy a Mig 21 buy a few spare engines.

Or really anything Russian.

They've never caught up to the west in terms of engine reliability or longevity.

And the Chinese haven't even caught up the Russians.

Russians had a different view on equipment and personnel survivability. Not much point over engineering for the benefit of high casualty cannon fodder equipment/personnel.

The Chinese have likely come along way in engine tech, thank our "FRIENDS" the Israelis for that.

Posted: 6/28/2013 1:49:26 PM EDT

[#43]

Russian stuff tends to work as long as you don't depend too heavily on silly little things like altimeters

Posted: 6/28/2013 1:54:06 PM EDT

[#44]

For that kind of cash, I'd rather find an F-5/T-38.

Posted: 6/28/2013 2:04:54 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD. This particular example has been babied.

Mig 21s it was said exceeded mach 2 rarely, stories I read said it would need a total engine overhaul or new engine nearly every time it did. Also I am fairly certain pissant civis are not allowed to go supersonic over CONUS even if they could.

If you buy a Mig 21 buy a few spare engines.

This dream airplane won't cruise at M=0.99, either. There's a reason for that, the same reason no one else cruises there.

Posted: 6/28/2013 2:29:09 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There've already been concepts like is and none have been successful. Wy spend $5-7m when you can get an L-39th for 500k?

Yea.....

L39 can go Mach 0.8 at best.

THIS on the other hand, will go Mach 2.0, is fully operational, and easy to maintain.
Best part is it only costs $79,000 USD. This particular example has been babied.

Mig 21s it was said exceeded mach 2 rarely, stories I read said it would need a total engine overhaul or new engine nearly every time it did. Also I am fairly certain pissant civis are not allowed to go supersonic over CONUS even if they could.

If you buy a Mig 21 buy a few spare engines.

This dream airplane won't cruise at M=0.99, either. There's a reason for that, the same reason no one else cruises there.

No, 0.99 would not be a pleasant experience for very long.
But here's another nice dream airplane.. Privately owned Mig-29. Russian or not she's a pretty one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq92ZC5cYoM

Posted: 6/28/2013 3:37:30 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

No, 0.99 would not be a pleasant experience for very long.
But here's another nice dream airplane.. Privately owned Mig-29. Russian or not she's a pretty one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq92ZC5cYoM

I've always thought the -29 was sexy. Can you imagine owning a toy/exhibiton/pleasure aircraft that burns over 10,000 pounds of jet fuel per hour with 350 hour TBOs on both engines? Ground idle is a paltry 700ish pounds per hour. Setting aside all other incidental expenses, the math on that alone is impressive.

Someone please correct my math if it's incorrct. Fuel burn at current prices, by my back of the napkin, is $7500 fuel/hour give or take, assuming you don't use the reheater much. If you can stomach the $2.5M to get through that much fuel, you don't care much about the cost of the plane & mx, though.

I knew a surgeon who was formerly a pilot with the Navy. IIRC, he said F14s estimated overall hourly cost was $17,000/hour. F18s were down around $13,000.

Posted: 6/28/2013 5:12:49 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

No, 0.99 would not be a pleasant experience for very long.
But here's another nice dream airplane.. Privately owned Mig-29. Russian or not she's a pretty one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq92ZC5cYoM

I've always thought the -29 was sexy. Can you imagine owning a toy/exhibiton/pleasure aircraft that burns over 10,000 pounds of jet fuel per hour with 350 hour TBOs on both engines? Ground idle is a paltry 700ish pounds per hour. Setting aside all other incidental expenses, the math on that alone is impressive.

Someone please correct my math if it's incorrct. Fuel burn at current prices, by my back of the napkin, is $7500 fuel/hour give or take, assuming you don't use the reheater much. If you can stomach the $2.5M to get through that much fuel, you don't care much about the cost of the plane & mx, though.

I knew a surgeon who was formerly a pilot with the Navy. IIRC, he said F14s estimated overall hourly cost was $17,000/hour. F18s were down around $13,000.

Definitely not possible from my pocketbook, but I am very glad there are those who have both the inclination and ability to own and fly these amazing aircraft and the means to do so. I have to enjoy these flights vicariously.

I would hate to see a day in America where only government can fly planes like these. We need a program akin to ODCMP for retired fighter aircraft.