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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:00:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Unfortunately, eminent domain has always been a thing.
And they did make him a really decent offer, well over value! |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:03:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: You either bow down and submit to us, or we will make you bow down and submit to us... Bow to your master! Yes, he seems to be greedy, but it's his property. And yes, the city did initially make him a decent offer, but screw your freedoms and livelihood. A decent offer for the property but what is the value of the business? Is there a property with a location as good for him to purchase and reopen at because if not he's losing the business as well. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:05:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, eminent domain has always been a thing. And they did make him a really decent offer, well over value! "Without acquiring the building, the Alamo Trust Board of Directors said in a letter to city council that the project would have to abandon a 4D theater, a recreation of the Woolworth Lunch Counter, and designs for the civil rights exhibit." That sounds like a really vital infrastructure project that's worth violating someone's property rights over. The whole region is going to suffer without that 4D theatre. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:05:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, eminent domain has always been a thing. And they did make him a really decent offer, well over value! three million for a river-walk property next door to the Alamo? nah...he'd never be able to replace that business. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:05:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, eminent domain has always been a thing. And they did make him a really decent offer, well over value! If you’re forcing someone to sell their property, you owe them more than fair value. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:05:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Large women in San Antonio.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:05:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Killdozer 2?
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:09:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Eminent domain is a lot harder than it used to be. "Increased tax revenue" is no longer sufficient cause.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:09:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you’re forcing someone to sell their property, you owe them more than fair value. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unfortunately, eminent domain has always been a thing. And they did make him a really decent offer, well over value! If you’re forcing someone to sell their property, you owe them more than fair value. 5x more |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:09:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Large women in San Antonio. Has @midcap been to San Antonio? He would be in Hog (literally) heaven! |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:10:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Mayor Moronberg is a waste
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:14:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you’re forcing someone to sell their property, you owe them more than fair value. Isn't $1.5M over $2.5M value well over fair? It ain't twice as much but all the state has to do is provide reasonable compensation, right? |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:17:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Screw the city and their sjw commie plans. The Alamo area is what it is and has always been just a city around an old mission and battlefield. The commies don’t want to honor the fallen heroes that’s for sure, just pushing an agenda.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:17:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Large women in San Antonio.  Charles Barkley Roasting San Antonio Women For Eight Minutes Straight... |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:23:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eminent domain is a lot harder than it used to be. "Increased tax revenue" is no longer sufficient cause. Kelo vs. New London says the opposite. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:24:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has @midcap been to San Antonio? He would be in Hog (literally) heaven! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Large women in San Antonio. Has @midcap been to San Antonio? He would be in Hog (literally) heaven! Yes last year...was nice..hostess at the iron cactus wanted the D...wife had to intervene and tell her I was a taken man 
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:24:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't $1.5M over $2.5M value well over fair? It ain't twice as much but all the state has to do is provide reasonable compensation, right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you’re forcing someone to sell their property, you owe them more than fair value. Isn't $1.5M over $2.5M value well over fair? It ain't twice as much but all the state has to do is provide reasonable compensation, right? Shit...I'd take 2.5M and no one would ever see my ass again. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:27:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: You either bow down and submit to us, or we will make you bow down and submit to us... Bow to your master! Yes, he seems to be greedy, but it's his property. And yes, the city did initially make him a decent offer, but screw your freedoms and livelihood. 
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:30:15 PM EDT
[#19]
A Visitor Center would be a lot cooler with a bar.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:33:22 PM EDT
[#20]
What a bunch of bullshit. Fuck the 9 idiots that voted for it.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:42:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Eminent domain is a necessary evil to have efficient national and state infrastructure. We wouldn’t have a viable interstate/highway system, power grid, and resulting economic production without it.
A fucking visitor center hardly fits that use case. The city just wants to flip privately owned tourist attractions to city owned. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:46:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kelo vs. New London says the opposite. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Eminent domain is a lot harder than it used to be. "Increased tax revenue" is no longer sufficient cause. Kelo vs. New London says the opposite. Yup. Came to post this. Kelo v. City of New London , Connecticut (2005) 5-4 decision. And, so far, one of the most egregious this century.   |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:03:41 PM EDT
[#23]
That property is a great spot for a business. The owner is right about generational wealth.
Cities and city dwellers ruin many things. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:07:20 PM EDT
[#24]
He wants 17 million for a crappy bar?
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:19:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He wants 17 million for a crappy bar? For his crapy bar. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:20:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He wants 17 million for a crappy bar? 
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:25:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Sorry, not sorry, he should have taken the money; that place is a shithole. Granted, it was a few years back but I remember it sucking bigly. The Barbeque was shit.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:26:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shit...I'd take 2.5M and no one would ever see my ass again. That might be a good deal 
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:28:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Large women in San Antonio. It’s the churros. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:31:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Eminent Domain....around here they change the zoning so you can no longer use your land. Some have committed suicide after the fact.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:33:48 PM EDT
[#31]
If it's your property and your business, there's a cost to moving everything and starting over, developing a new customer base, advertising, etc.
I get people wanting to buy my business property all the time. We put over $500k into the purchase. Another $1 million in renovations, 7 years working on weekends, nights. People ask me what I want for it, $4.5 million. That's enough for me to move 150 miles away and start over. Age is a factor. It's harder to start over on your own as you get older. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:38:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you’re forcing someone to sell their property, you owe them more than fair value. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unfortunately, eminent domain has always been a thing. And they did make him a really decent offer, well over value! If you’re forcing someone to sell their property, you owe them more than fair value. This. The landowner has a point. He's not only losing his land and building, he's losing his business and therefore also losing his job. Offering $3.5 million when it was appraised at $2.1 million isn't quite enough. They should give him the $2.1 million for the land and building and then five year's worth of income that it generated. That would get him to 65 and retirement. If he profited $500k per year, then they should give him a total of $4.6 million and call it even. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:56:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. The landowner has a point. He's not only losing his land and building, he's losing his business and therefore also losing his job. Offering $3.5 million when it was appraised at $2.1 million isn't quite enough. They should give him the $2.1 million for the land and building and then five year's worth of income that it generated. That would get him to 65 and retirement. If he profited $500k per year, then they should give him a total of $4.6 million and call it even. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unfortunately, eminent domain has always been a thing. And they did make him a really decent offer, well over value! If you’re forcing someone to sell their property, you owe them more than fair value. This. The landowner has a point. He's not only losing his land and building, he's losing his business and therefore also losing his job. Offering $3.5 million when it was appraised at $2.1 million isn't quite enough. They should give him the $2.1 million for the land and building and then five year's worth of income that it generated. That would get him to 65 and retirement. If he profited $500k per year, then they should give him a total of $4.6 million and call it even. Why only 5 years worth of income? He's 60 years old, and now has to go apply for a job somewhere. What if he invested every dollar he had into the business, and his retirement plan is to live off of the $500k/ year? And he has a point about the generational wealth. We don't know what kind of sacrifice he made to acquire this prime piece of real estate. I'm sure he planned for his kid's kid's to be wealthy off of this. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:07:10 PM EDT
[#34]
The real problem is replacement. He will never get that.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:21:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The real problem is replacement. He will never get that. That's the worst part. That property could have been the one thing he planned to leave to his grandkids. There's no telling what that property will be worth in 20 years. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:29:08 PM EDT
[#36]
A movie theatre, lunch counter recreation and an exhibit of anything should not trump private property rights. Government at its finest...
Hking |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:38:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eminent domain is a necessary evil to have efficient national and state infrastructure. We wouldn’t have a viable interstate/highway system, power grid, and resulting economic production without it. A fucking visitor center hardly fits that use case. The city just wants to flip privately owned tourist attractions to city owned. Yep. The Alamo is an interesting piece of history, but is pretty underwhelming as a site to visit. The city wants to caplitalize on the cache of The Alamo™? so its rich developers and the city can get richer, while this guy gets screwed. I guarantee there are kickbacks and graft at play here. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:46:38 PM EDT
[#38]
The visitor center will need concessions; food and drink. The government could let them stay but then how will they be able to garner a kick-back from Applebee's or Cinnabon?
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:06:10 PM EDT
[#39]
I could at least in part argue that the property is probably within the original Alamo grounds. The real issue is that San Antonio saw the value of the property over 100 years ago and commercialized it. At least the grounds of some of the other missions nearby are reasonably intact to give an idea of what they once looked like. They were mission churches, with walled communities around them. Spanish had a different idea of empire building, they wanted to export their society to take advantage of the human resources of the new world - rather than export their people and remove the people that already occupied the new world. Of course, European diseases probably meant the Spanish killed more than the English.
--- Oh, and they don't just need the concessions or the theater - the main thing is the civil rights exhibit. They want to re-image the Alamo to address white men were evil. The Alamo was all about slavery in the new narrative. The Texas revolution had nothing to do with being disenfranchised - it was because Santa Anna outlawed slavery. He will be the hero in the new narrative. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:15:32 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He wants 17 million for a crappy bar? I’d bet everything his “crappy bar” is worth more than everything you’ve ever done in your entire life from the time you were born until the time no one remembers you anymore. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:16:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, eminent domain has always been a thing. And they did make him a really decent offer, well over value! No they didn't. Take 40% of that away in taxes. Now the lost revenue. Now the appreciation in value over the next ten years that he is missing out on. What is he going to do for a job? No way he opens the same place in some urban sprawl part of the city and makes it. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:26:13 PM EDT
[#42]
The other part of this is they have no problem forking over $400 million to someone to build on the site.
Looks like the payoffs in real estate and construction deals are going to dwarf anything he receives for actually losing something. There's so much behind the scenes money in this kind of stuff now. It's not developing a business or a venue as it is getting a city to give you free money to build something and make a profit. Think about it. I think the guy should be able to at least get 10% of that. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:31:32 PM EDT
[#43]
3x valuation should be standard.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:49:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Visitor Center would be a lot cooler with a bar. Should be a requirement for every Museum or Historical Location. History always better when sipping a cold Shiner Bock  Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:55:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d bet everything his “crappy bar” is worth more than everything you’ve ever done in your entire life from the time you were born until the time no one remembers you anymore. You would be wrong, but that's not the point. There isn't a bar in the entire city worth 17 million. Hell, he's in the top %2 at THREE million. Austin has a bar owner that own NINE bars. Three of the most popular ones in the city. He has valued his entire operation at 11 million in the Austin business journal. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:28:48 PM EDT
[#46]
I can see his point, but he needs to be realistic. He will likely face capital gains tax and loss of business. The $4M offer for the land is reasonable but the city needs to compensate him for the business. Hopefully he has conducted the business above boards and can show a 5 year profit trend.
My family has had run ins with both the railroad and the Army Corp of Engineers. Both times, we came out on the better end. Had to play hardball but ultimately they are spending your tax money so they don’t give a shit. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:52:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Can't be true cause Taxus is the mostest freest liberty lovin'ist state in the multiverse & if you don't believe me, just ask any ole Tacksun, they'll splain it!
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Posted: 1/26/2023 9:05:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He wants 17 million for a crappy bar? Well it is his bar… or used to be, lol Seriously, that property is worth a decent amount. Shithole residential buildings around that area are going for a few million. San Antonio is a commie shit hole. They have been expanding the city through annexation for decades. That owner should take his money and move to a free state. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 9:24:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Wait, so the government is going to force him to sell, essentially theft, to build a civil rights monument? The fucking irony.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 11:36:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait, so the government is going to force him to sell, essentially theft, to build a civil rights monument? The fucking irony. Yep |
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